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Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:20 pm

Over the past 2-3 years, we have seen British Airway's 777-300ER fleet expand while the 747-400 fleet has shrunken and then expanded. Hopefully, someone can answer my following questions;

777-300ER
1. What are BA's thoughts on the 77W so far?
2. What are the future fleet plans?


747-400
1. What are BA's thoughts on the 744 at this time?
2. What are the future fleet plans?
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:12 am

77W - six in service by Apr '12, with two on order for Winter '13/'14.

744 - 53 in service by Apr '12, with two stored (and two have just been scrapped).

Future fleet plans were were 744 fleet to start coming down as the A380 comes into service, as well as the 787 (latter replaces 777 on some routes, with 777 replacing 744 elsewhere).

However, the potential IAG purchase of BD could change this short term, as it was stated that some of the BD slots could be used to allow BA to add service to Asia and Latin America. Now some of thsi could be achieved by keeping the 763 around longer than planned, with the 777/787 fleet juggled about. Or it could be that more 744s stay around longer, with again 787/777 fleet juggled around (or a combo of both).

A number of 744s will leave the fleet this decade, but what comes in to replace them remains to be seen.
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bennett123
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:21 am

The B747-436s scrapped at Cardiff were G-BNLB and G-BNLC.
 
jfk777
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:40 am

While BA has A380 and 787 on order they do not have enough to replace 53 747-400's. Some were delivered as late as 1999 so prhaps only 30 need to be retired soon. BA has 12 A380 ordered so there will be a reorder. 24 787's is more a 767 replacement. BA needs another 20 787-9's and 30 777 NG's.
 
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:13 am

Guess BA will order up to 30-40 A380s at the very end. They will certainly go beyond the 12+9 they ordered
 
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:00 am

I don't know if they'll order as many as 40 A380s but they'll more probably order more 77Ws to replace the 744s. Because I don't think that all the intercontinental routes where BA flies the 744 will be so profitable with A380 equipment, on some of the long haul routes the 77W would be a better fit. I don't think they'll go for the 747-8i.

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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:12 am

So maybe 35 A380s or so.
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:19 am

747-8 anybody? Though unlikely a guy can dream can't he?
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kaitak
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:13 am

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 7):
747-8 anybody? Though unlikely a guy can dream can't he?

And I can dream about EI A380s as well! The result will be the same.

I think BA is taking a cautious approach; it is not buying a large number of 77Ws. It may acquire more, but it will probably be 2 or 3 at a time. It's an ideal replacement for some of the older 744s.

There are a lot of calculations for BA to take into account, not least the economic situation. It doesn't want to buy 30-40 77Ws and then find that the economy goes seriously south. Also, it doesn't want to buy a large number of a particular type, only to find that it is outdated after a few years; the airline will be looking at types such as the 787-10 and A350-900/1000 as a long term long haul solution.
 
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garpd
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:10 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 6):
So maybe 35 A380s or so.

Probably not.

I see BA sticking to the 77W to replace the 744 on routes that don't quite fill them while maintaining frequencies.
The A380 is a tool to free up some slots by reducing frequencies on routes that don't need them. But it's not the one to one replacement for the 744 people think it is.
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mikey72
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:02 am

Quoting garpd (Reply 9):
The A380 is a tool to free up some slots by reducing frequencies on routes that don't need them. But it's not the one to one replacement for the 744 people think it is.
BA was swapping it's 744 orders for 777's even while they were still being delivered. And that was years ago.

So with great regret that's one of the reasons why I don't think we'll see a 748-i in BA livery. With the aircraft that are available today the 748 is neither one thing nor the other to BA.

The 'worlds favourite airline' days are long gone due to increased competition and therefore BA doesn't look for the ''bums on seats'' capacity in a large number of aircraft in its fleet that it used to.

However there are so many high yielding 'passenger voluminous' O&D routes from London and given capacity issues at LHR (even with BD slots) I think it fair to assume that we will see a reasonable amount of A380's sporting the crest !!

[Edited 2011-12-21 01:04:36]
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United Airline
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:19 am

I believe they will order more A380s still. Maybe up to 30. But I doubt they will go for the B 747-8. They almost did
 
vv701
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:41 am

As recently as November IAG published their future fleet plans for both BA and IB on Slide 17 at:

International Airlines Group Investor Presentation (by LHRFlyer Nov 11 2011 in Civil Aviation)

For the BA long haul fleet this slide includes actual aircraft numbers for 2011 and the planned aircraft numbers for 2016. They are as follows:

744. 2011: 52. 2016: 45

763. 2011: 14. 2016: 1

777. 2011: 49. 2016: 54

787. 2011: 0. 2016: 16

380. 2011: 0. 2016: 9

318. 2011: 2. 2016: 2

The slide also identifies that the retirement of the 744s and 763s is "flexible" whether the aircraft are owned or leased.

As can be seen there is a small planned expansion in the long haul fleet. 13 763s will be replaced by 16 787s. 7 744s will be replaced by 9 380s. In addition 5 777s will be added to the long haul fleet.

Whether or not the above data will be modified if IAG buy BD remains to be seen. But if it is it will presumably result in fewer 744 and long-haul 763 retirements by 2016.
 
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:43 am

My prediction -- move towards using A380 aircraft on extremely high traffic routes (ie where lots of Y demand exists alongside F/J demand), and either 77W or A35J on pretty much every other current 744 route.

So in total, around 20 A380's flying to South Africa, a couple of North American destinations and a couple of Asian destinations. Then around 40 77W/A35J's to cover the rest of the world. Any reduction in capacity can be offset by opening up more destinations using smaller aircraft (787).
 
mikey72
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:22 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 12):
Whether or not the above data will be modified if IAG buy BD remains to be seen

If the BD purchase does go ahead maybe Boeing (given the empty dancy card of the 748i) could knock out a few 748's to BA on the cheap ?
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cmf
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:22 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):
While BA has A380 and 787 on order they do not have enough to replace 53 747-400's. Some were delivered as late as 1999 so prhaps only 30 need to be retired soon. BA has 12 A380 ordered so there will be a reorder. 24 787's is more a 767 replacement. BA needs another 20 787-9's and 30 777 NG's.

I think it is dangerous to assume each plane going out is replaced by something else.

It is better to look at the fleet composition a constantly changing goal with extremely slow adoption. As such each plane leaving or being added is better looked at as an isolated event leading towards the fleet composition goal.

The fleet goal of course is based on the "dream" schedule and the current schedule is largely influenced by the current fleet. Constant interactions between them decides what is being ordered and what goes out.

In summary; don't try to predict orders based on current fleet.
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Stitch
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:28 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 7):
747-8 anybody?

BA could always reverse their position, but right now they are said to be firmly not interested in the 747-8 after deciding in favor of the A380-800.



Quoting mikey72 (Reply 14):
If the BD purchase does go ahead maybe Boeing (given the empty dancy card of the 748i) could knock out a few 748's to BA on the cheap ?

If BA does decide to add the 747-8 to their fleet, information I have been made privy to states categorically it will not be because of price. And since that is about the one thing the 747-8 has over the A380-800, see my comment above.
 
jfk777
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:47 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 15):
I think it is dangerous to assume each plane going out is replaced by something else.

It is better to look at the fleet composition a constantly changing goal with extremely slow adoption. As such each plane leaving or being added is better looked at as an isolated event leading towards the fleet composition goal.

The fleet goal of course is based on the "dream" schedule and the current schedule is largely influenced by the current fleet. Constant interactions between them decides what is being ordered and what goes out.

In summary; don't try to predict orders based on current fleet.

CMF,

Its BA who ordered 12 A380, 24 787 and 6 77W's. Its NOT a big assumption to know they have 57 744( BA's number NOT mine). They need to be replaced, if they only have 12 A380's that means there will very likey be a second and perhaps even a third A380 order.

24 787 are a 767 replacement. The 77W's are also replacing 744's. One does NOT need a PhD fron MIT to figure this out. Happy New Year to you.
 
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garpd
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:56 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 17):
Its BA who ordered 12 A380, 24 787 and 6 77W's. Its NOT a big assumption to know they have 57 744( BA's number NOT mine). They need to be replaced, if they only have 12 A380's that means there will very likey be a second and perhaps even a third A380 order.

They could just as easily order more 77Ws. It doesn't have to be the A380 that gets re-ordered.
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Lofty
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:17 pm

An issue that has not been raised is the lack of A380 / B747-8 stands at LHR T5.
 
cmf
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:30 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 17):
One does NOT need a PhD fron MIT to figure this out. Happy New Year to you.

One does not. But I'm sure said PhD would have understood my post.
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:26 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 12):
For the BA long haul fleet this slide includes actual aircraft numbers for 2011 and the planned aircraft numbers for 2016. They are as follows:

744. 2011: 52. 2016: 45

763. 2011: 14. 2016: 1

777. 2011: 49. 2016: 54

787. 2011: 0. 2016: 16

380. 2011: 0. 2016: 9

318. 2011: 2. 2016: 2



I think it's pretty certain, IMHO that all options on both the 787 (was it another 24?) and A380 (7) will be taken up. This , along with maybe a few more 77W's should cover fleet replacement up until 2020. BA stated at the time of ordering that some 787's are to replace 747's. I assume with some fleet shuffling and right sizing planes to match routes and seasons will cover this. After 2020 the next batch of replacements will need to start arriving. The rest of the 747's and the 77E will start to be replaced in the first half of the decade. The big question is which planes will be ordered to be delivered in the 2020's. More A380's for a fleet of 30ish and more 787's for a fleet of 60-70 with a third type in between, 30-40 777NGs or A350s. This is how I see the BA fleet at the end of the 2020's.
 
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:26 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 20):
One does not. But I'm sure said PhD would have understood my post.
Quoting cmf (Reply 15):
I think it is dangerous to assume each plane going out is replaced by something else.

It is better to look at the fleet composition a constantly changing goal with extremely slow adoption. As such each plane leaving or being added is better looked at as an isolated event leading towards the fleet composition goal.

The fleet goal of course is based on the "dream" schedule and the current schedule is largely influenced by the current fleet. Constant interactions between them decides what is being ordered and what goes out.

In summary; don't try to predict orders based on current fleet.

CMF,

I understood your post, sir. You are correct in "each plane leaving or being added is...towards the fleet compostion goal" . Rather fancy way of saying a plane gets delivered and one leaves.

"Its dangerous to assume each plane going out is replaced by somethingelse" ? Why ? Old planes leave and get replaced in an expanding fleet. BA is not shrinking the fleet, its replacing planes like 744 with 77W and soon A380's.

"In summary: don't try to predict orders based on the current fleet" I am not, BA long ago ordered A380, its done.
 
vv701
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:44 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 17):
Its NOT a big assumption to know they have 57 744( BA's number NOT mine).

BA's current figure is 55 744s. On 22 November they started to break up G-BNLC at CWL. Then on 5 December they started to break up G-BNLB. Scroll down here

http://cardiffstathan.blogspot.com/search?q=g-bnlb

to see what little remained of 'LB just two days later.
 
mikey72
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:58 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 23):
BA's current figure is 55 744s.

Says 61 on BA's Wikipedia page. God knows what that's all about.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 23):
On 22 November they started to break up G-BNLC at CWL. Then on 5 December they started to break up G-BNLB.

Such an unceremonious ending !

(Drifting away...I often wondered why they didn't put a Concorde inside Terminal 5 ??)
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cmf
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:08 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 22):
I understood your post, sir. You are correct in "each plane leaving or being added is...towards the fleet compostion goal" . Rather fancy way of saying a plane gets delivered and one leaves.

I'm sorry but with that you made absolutely clear you did not understand.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 22):
"Its dangerous to assume each plane going out is replaced by somethingelse" ? Why ? Old planes leave and get replaced in an expanding fleet. BA is not shrinking the fleet, its replacing planes like 744 with 77W and soon A380's.

It is a fallacy to assume fleet size is constant.

Let's see if a practical example can make it clearer.

When BA ordered the two A318 for LCY-JFK they did not replace any other planes. Pure additions based on a mission profile not possible to cover with any existing planes.

BA may decide to add more of them for other routes out of LCY, say TLV as an example. That would again not replace any existing planes.

Or BA may decide that LCY-JFK does not justify two rotations and decide to move one to the LCY-TLV route suggested above with no change in the fleet but still a significant change in the offering from LCY.

Let's move forward a couple of years to the time when orders needs to be placed if the two A318 are to be replaced. If everything is the same BA probably will order replacements. But if they see less and less interest for the route they may also decide to keep flying as long as the exiting planes work and then give up the route, no replacements.

I'm stating there may be similar situations with 767 and 747 replacements. That replacement may be no replacement at all. It can also be that replacement will be planes with very different profiles. Two or three 787 to handle the routes currently done with one 747 plus some expansion. Or one A380 for every few 747 going out for with reduction of frequency and capac

This is why current fleet is not telling us what the future fleet will be. There is absolutely no requirement for each 747 going out to be replaced with a 777 or A380. Just as there is absolutely no requirement to replace each 767 with a 787. You need to listen to BA's plans to know what changes will take place with the fleet.

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 24):
(Drifting away...I often wondered why they didn't put a Concorde inside Terminal 5 ??)

Cost.
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GBLKD
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:09 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 24):
Such an unceremonious ending !

Yep, R.I.P "never leaves base"

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 24):
(Drifting away...I often wondered why they didn't put a Concorde inside Terminal 5 ??)

G-BOAB was supposed to be the focal point for T5 however she's still full of pallets of "Highlife" mags for ballast and slowly rotting away outside the BA maintainance hangers.

Club Concorde want to move it to a site next to the London Eye. Whether or not it will happen who knows.  
 
Ychocky
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:09 pm

Quoting Lofty (Reply 19):
An issue that has not been raised is the lack of A380 / B747-8 stands at LHR T5.

The B747-8i does not require any modifications as the Boeing design from the beginning was to utilize the the B747 equipment already deployed around the world.

As for the A380, Terminal 5 has several A380 ready gates.
 
qf002
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:18 pm

Quoting Ychocky (Reply 27):
The B747-8i does not require any modifications as the Boeing design from the beginning was to utilize the the B747 equipment already deployed around the world.

As for the A380, Terminal 5 has several A380 ready gates.

1. The length of the 748i would likely be the issue in T5's case. While LHR can support the aircraft, the terminals have not been designed to.

2. At this point in time, a 744 can use any long haul gate in the terminal -- from memory there's only 6-8 A380 capable gates across T5B and C. That's going to cause big issues if BA is to replace the bulk of the 744's with A380's. While there are 'several' there are not enough to support 30+ birds.
 
mikey72
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:23 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 25):
Quoting mikey72 (Reply 24):
(Drifting away...I often wondered why they didn't put a Concorde inside Terminal 5 ??)

Cost.

What cost ?
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Ychocky
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:24 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 28):

1. The length of the 748i would likely be the issue in T5's case. While LHR can support the aircraft, the terminals have not been designed to.

2. At this point in time, a 744 can use any long haul gate in the terminal -- from memory there's only 6-8 A380 capable gates across T5B and C. That's going to cause big issues if BA is to replace the bulk of the 744's with A380's. While there are 'several' there are not enough to support 30+ birds.

Good point, I remember the hub bub about the "NO GO" areas on the LHR field for the A380, I suppose now with the B748i now certified and additional document may appear for it's operations at LHR.
 
jackowilkinson
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:27 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 7):

I was waiting for someone to suggest that! Why replace old 744s with other types when Boeing have just bought out a new 747?! I'm quite sure BA will order the -8.
 
cmf
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:46 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 28):
if BA is to replace the bulk of the 744's with A380's. While there are 'several' there are not enough to support 30+ birds.

The real question is how difficult it is to make more gates capable.

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 29):
What cost ?

Construction costs

Space that needs to be added during construction that may or may not be available.

Maintenance cost of that space.
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mikey72
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:03 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 32):
Construction costs

Space that needs to be added during construction that may or may not be available.

Maintenance cost of that space.

Oh I see.....   
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jfk777
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:44 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 25):
When BA ordered the two A318 for LCY-JFK they did not replace any other planes. Pure additions based on a mission profile not possible to cover with any existing planes.

BA may decide to add more of them for other routes out of LCY, say TLV as an example. That would again not replace any existing planes.

Or BA may decide that LCY-JFK does not justify two rotations and decide to move one to the LCY-TLV route suggested above with no change in the fleet but still a significant change in the offering from LCY.

Let's move forward a couple of years to the time when orders needs to be placed if the two A318 are to be replaced. If everything is the same BA probably will order replacements. But if they see less and less interest for the route they may also decide to keep flying as long as the exiting planes work and then give up the route, no replacements.

I'm stating there may be similar situations with 767 and 747 replacements. That replacement may be no replacement at all. It can also be that replacement will be planes with very different profiles. Two or three 787 to handle the routes currently done with one 747 plus some expansion. Or one A380 for every few 747 going out for with reduction of frequency and capac

This is why current fleet is not telling us what the future fleet will be. There is absolutely no requirement for each 747 going out to be replaced with a 777 or A380. Just as there is absolutely no requirement to replace each 767 with a 787. You need to listen to BA's plans to know what changes will take place with the fleet.

CMF,

I never said 50 744 were getting replaced by 50 A380 or 50 77W's. I realize that 50 744 may get replaced by more then 50 planes or less then 50 planes. I also realize that more then 1 type of plane will replace tha current BA 744 fleet. Its probably going to be several types of airplanes that take over the current missions flown by the 744 fleet. These planes could be smaller or much larger. I hope that clarifies it for you now in the third try.
 
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:07 pm

Quoting jackowilkinson (Reply 31):
Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 7):


I was waiting for someone to suggest that! Why replace old 744s with other types when Boeing have just bought out a new 747?! I'm quite sure BA will order the -8.

On that basis you'd never order a brand new type ever, and BA would now be operating Comet 10s, Trident 12bs, 707NGs and Super Super VC10s! Which would be a lot more fun for the enthusiast  
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babybus
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:14 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 8):
And I can dream about EI A380s as well!

That would be an incredible sight. They could always buy a couple and lease them out?

Quoting garpd (Reply 9):
The A380 is a tool to free up some slots by reducing frequencies on routes that don't need them.

More like to even the competition out between existing A380 operators at LHR. BA will have to have a similar product to EK, SQ, QF if it wants to stay on competitive long haul markets. The A380 also has lower operating costs than other aircraft its size.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 11):
But I doubt they will go for the B 747-8.

How wise.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 2):
The B747-436s scrapped at Cardiff were G-BNLB and G-BNLC.

They kept that quiet. Well done to them.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
mikey72
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:32 pm

Quoting Babybus (Reply 36):
More like to even the competition out between existing A380 operators at LHR. BA will have to have a similar product to EK, SQ, QF if it wants to stay on competitive long haul markets.

Well the most important market to BA is the USA and as it stands at the moment BA will be the only carrier operating the A380 for a while to this great country.

As for EK and SQ the benefits of a non-stop service on a BA A380 (Club World and First/Prime aren't exactly shabby) far outweigh the benefits of a slightly better soft product and a tiresome transfer.

JNB, CPT, MIA, LAX, SFO, HKG, NRT, GRU, MEX. LOS....etc etc...don't see BA having much trouble with the A380 here
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cmf
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:31 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 34):
I hope that clarifies it for you now in the third try.

You should use the business plan to predict future orders. Not size of current fleet. Hope that clarifies the disagreement.
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Clarkee82
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:08 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 28):
2. At this point in time, a 744 can use any long haul gate in the terminal -- from memory there's only 6-8 A380 capable gates across T5B and C. That's going to cause big issues if BA is to replace the bulk of the 744's with A380's. While there are 'several' there are not enough to support 30+ birds.

T5C has 7 A380 gates with triple jetways & T5B has 3/4 A380 gates with double jetways. BA are also expanding back into T3 to a small extent so there are also the 4 A380 stands there that are going to be under utilised once EK, TG & SQ move into T2. (Only MH & QF are likely to remain), so there is still a fair amount of room for BAs 12 confirmed 'Supers'.
 
babybus
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:10 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 37):
Well the most important market to BA is the USA

I think you'll find that every market is important for BA especially when it relies so heavily on transfer traffic.

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 37):
JNB, CPT, MIA, LAX, SFO, HKG, NRT, GRU, MEX. LOS....etc etc...don't see BA having much trouble with the A380 here

As you say, BA will need A380s to compete on those routes. With people being so price sensitive these days there's a lot of choice out there. NYC is fine but flight times after that will need bigger aircraft. People don't want to be crammed into a twin jet any more, especially when better and more comfortable aircraft are available.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
bennett123
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:15 pm

IMO, most will accept an A330/350 or B767/777/787.

Generally, they will not even notice.
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:22 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 37):
Well the most important market to BA is the USA and as it stands at the moment BA will be the only carrier operating the A380 for a while to this great country.

This is true only if you qualify it with "from the UK". Air France, Emirates, Lufthansa, and Qantas all operate A380's to the US
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qf002
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:45 am

Quoting Clarkee82 (Reply 39):
T5C has 7 A380 gates with triple jetways & T5B has 3/4 A380 gates with double jetways. BA are also expanding back into T3 to a small extent so there are also the 4 A380 stands there that are going to be under utilised once EK, TG & SQ move into T2. (Only MH & QF are likely to remain), so there is still a fair amount of room for BAs 12 confirmed 'Supers'.

Thanks for that   I still have my reservations about a fleet of more than 20-30 frames though, as I don't see them actively moving long haul flights out of T5 and into T3 (if anything, I see QF A380's moving to T5 which would create more pressure on the gates). Even the 10/11 gates in T5 will struggle at peak times and a large fleet.
 
Speedbird2155
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:17 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 28):
1. The length of the 748i would likely be the issue in T5's case. While LHR can support the aircraft, the terminals have not been designed to.

2. At this point in time, a 744 can use any long haul gate in the terminal -- from memory there's only 6-8 A380 capable gates across T5B and C. That's going to cause big issues if BA is to replace the bulk of the 744's with A380's. While there are 'several' there are not enough to support 30+ birds.
Quoting Clarkee82 (Reply 39):
T5C has 7 A380 gates with triple jetways & T5B has 3/4 A380 gates with double jetways.

Any A380 capable gate can also accomodate the 747-8i so all the gates/stands in T5 that are designed for the A380 can be used. As has been noted, there are 7 gates in T5C and 4 in T5B. The T5B stands are A380 compatible, but the jetties only allow for lower deck boarding, so would be ideal for the 747-8i, IF BA were to decide to order some.
 
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garpd
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:42 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 28):
The length of the 748i would likely be the issue in T5's case. While LHR can support the aircraft, the terminals have not been designed to.

If a terminal can handle the 77W, 744 and A380, it can certainly handle the 748.

Quoting Babybus (Reply 36):
More like to even the competition out between existing A380 operators at LHR. BA will have to have a similar product to EK, SQ, QF if it wants to stay on competitive long haul markets....


Good god, I hope not. The EK product is garish and very, very tacky with the fake wood and pretend gold.

Quoting Babybus (Reply 36):
The A380 also has lower operating costs than other aircraft its size.


A somewhat redundant statement as there is no other passenger aicraft in it's size.
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qf002
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:57 am

Quoting garpd (Reply 45):
If a terminal can handle the 77W, 744 and A380, it can certainly handle the 748.

That may be the case, but I was simply refuting the idea that if the 744 can use it then the 748i can as well. That's not always the case, and if it wasn't in T5's case, then I would imagine it would be the length that would cause issues.
 
mikey72
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:02 am

Quoting Babybus (Reply 40):
I think you'll find that every market is important for BA especially when it relies so heavily on transfer traffic.

I know...that's why I said ''most'' important market.

If there is an ''A380 effect'' on markets then the UK/US market for BA should get a boost if they get a head start with the A380 for a while...
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iainbhx
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:07 am

I think this mornings news will keep some 744's around for a few years longer than planned.
iainbhx
 
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garpd
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RE: Future Of BA's 744 And 77W Fleets.

Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:47 am

Quoting iainbhx (Reply 48):
I think this mornings news will keep some 744's around for a few years longer than planned.

What news?
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