justloveplanes
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UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:41 pm

From another thread, an interesting comment on UA757's

"I saw that rumor too, someone had the idea that UA were converting the domestic 763s to International configuration to operate in Asia. The fact is those newly configured 763s are going to be replacing PMCO 762s to Latin America and Europe as well as replacing PMCO 757s on Trans-Atlantic routes from EWR. They are not going to be flying HKG-SIN etc.."

What is the future for PMCO ETOPS 757's? What about their other 757's? PMCO 757's all have BF upgrades....

Will any PMUA 757's be getting BF?
 
mogandoCI
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:49 pm

Quoting justloveplanes (Thread starter):
What is the future for PMCO ETOPS 757's? What about their other 757's? PMCO 757's all have BF upgrades....

I have no insider info but my gut feeling is that they might attempt more IAD-Europe with them or take a stab at secondary destinations from EWR to ones like Lyon, Nice, Newcastle, Porto, Malaga....
 
tommy767
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:52 pm

I saw this posting too..

My feeling is that the 2 class 763s will be strictly for transatlantic ops. Smisek said he was going to do this so I wouldn't expect for this to change at all.

However there are 41 TATL 757s and I think it's entirely possible that some could transfer out to NRT and GUM for Asia flying. They would definitely be better suited for some of the short/medium haul missions than the 737s.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:58 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 1):
I have no insider info but my gut feeling is that they might attempt more IAD-Europe with them or take a stab at secondary destinations from EWR to ones like Lyon, Nice, Newcastle, Porto, Malaga....

There are still a few 763s in Hawaii service. Maybe there is a plan to provide better service in the islands? I'm shooting in the dark, but trying to think of where you would deploy and ETOPS bird with premium config that would be covering widebody flying.
 
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STT757
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:03 pm

Quoting justloveplanes (Thread starter):
What is the future for PMCO ETOPS 757's?

Continue operation West Coast-Hawaii, as they are now.

Quoting justloveplanes (Thread starter):
What is the future for PMCO ETOPS 757's?

Continue operating how they are now.

Quoting justloveplanes (Thread starter):
Will any PMUA 757's be getting BF?

Besides the reconfiguration of the PS 757s with the new lay flat seats the PMUA 757s are being phased out by 737-900ERs.

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 3):
There are still a few 763s in Hawaii service. Maybe there is a plan to provide better service in the islands?

They haven't begun the reconfiguration yet, they are not going to stay in domestic (Hawaii) service.
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FlyHossD
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:03 pm

Given that UA/CO is parking 15 to 20 of the UA757s, I expect the CO757s that are replaced on transatlantic routes by UA763s, to do more domestic flying between hubs and major cities and on trans-cons (just my opinion).

Given the frequency of the diversions for fuel stops when westbound across the Atlantic, I don't expect many more transatlantic 757 flights out of IAD. I'm still surprised no one has developed an aux fuel tank STC for the 757s.

I like Tommy767's idea about using the CO757s out of NRT, though. CO had 757s based in GUM for a time (mid to late 90s, IIRC).
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:04 pm

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 3):
There are still a few 763s in Hawaii service. Maybe there is a plan to provide better service in the islands? I'm shooting in the dark, but trying to think of where you would deploy and ETOPS bird with premium config that would be covering widebody flying.

Those ETOPS 752 are flat-bed BusinessFirst ... a bit overkill for the west coast to Hawaii market that is bombarded with HA and AS ?
 
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STT757
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:04 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 2):
However there are 41 TATL 757s and I think it's entirely possible that some could transfer out to NRT and GUM for Asia flying. They would definitely be better suited for some of the short/medium haul missions than the 737s.

CO used to have 757s operating from GUM, I doubt they will put them back. The 737s are already there.
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FlyHossD
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:05 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
Quoting justloveplanes (Thread starter):
What is the future for PMCO ETOPS 757's?

Continue operation West Coast-Hawaii, as they are now.

I thought the CO757s to Hawaii had been replaced by 737s...
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drerx7
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:06 pm

With the upcoming spring schedules showing a greater degree of PMCO/PMUA crossfleeting - will we see the 757s out of IAH and EWR? Right now they are dummied for 319s on the routes that I see.
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STT757
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:09 pm

Quoting flyhossd (Reply 8):
I thought the CO757s to Hawaii had been replaced by 737s...

I meant the ETOPS PMUA 757s.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
tommy767
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:20 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 1):
IAD-Europe with them or take a stab at secondary destinations from EWR to ones like Lyon, Nice, Newcastle, Porto, Malaga....

Yeah what the 757s SHOULD be doing instead of IAD-AMS/CDG. I doubt you'll see IAD-AMS/CDG back for next year as there has been more diversions then I can even count at this point. Although IAD-DUB/MAN should do just fine.

Quoting flyhossd (Reply 5):
Given that UA/CO is parking 15 to 20 of the UA757s

Over time possibly, definitely not within the next year. Only a grand total of 3 will be withdrawn by the end of the year leaving 93 active PMUA 757s.

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 9):
Right now they are dummied for 319s on the routes that I see.

If I had to guess from what has already been announced:

UA 757 routes:
EWR-LAS/MCO/MIA/SEA/IAH and PHX/LAX-EWR (only one way bookable.)
IAH-BOS/LGA
CLE-LAX/SFO

UA 319/320 routes:
EWR-SAT
CLE-LAX/SFO/MCO
IAH-PHL

Ugh, I'd speculate futher but I need to see a list of what's changing.
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drerx7
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:29 pm

Well from IAH I see:
SEA, PHX, LAS, LAX, EWR, BOS, DCA, PHL, DTW, LGA, EWR, and SAN. EWR and LAX intrigue me as I could see those being widebody positioning flights. Any of those could be UA757s - CO has used the 75 into nearly all of those in the past...except for DCA, BOS, and PHL; not sure about LGA before though.
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tommy767
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:36 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 12):
SEA, PHX, LAS, LAX, EWR, BOS, DCA, PHL, DTW, LGA, EWR, and SAN. EWR and LAX intrigue me as I could see those being widebody positioning flights. Any of those could be UA757s - CO has used the 75 into nearly all of those in the past...except for DCA, BOS, and PHL; not sure about LGA before though.

dimes to dollars that IAH-BOS/LGA/DCA will be 757.

UA A319/A320:
IAH-PHL/DTW/SAN

UA 757:
IAH-SEA/LAS/EWR/LAX

Also EWR-SFO is going up to 3-4x UA metal next summer so I'd expect a UA 777 on this route come 2012
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FlyHossD
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:50 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 11):


Quoting flyhossd (Reply 5):
Given that UA/CO is parking 15 to 20 of the UA757s

Over time possibly, definitely not within the next year. Only a grand total of 3 will be withdrawn by the end of the year leaving 93 active PMUA 757s.

My UA source for parking 15-20 UA 757s claims that more than 3 have already been parked (returned to the leasing companies), but I haven't checked; he claimed that at least 15 were being parked soon (before summer). Does anyone have a link to a recent fleet plan?
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:10 pm

Quoting flyhossd (Reply 14):
My UA source for parking 15-20 UA 757s claims that more than 3 have already been parked (returned to the leasing companies), but I haven't checked; he claimed that at least 15 were being parked soon (before summer). Does anyone have a link to a recent fleet plan?

That's entirely fine. Other than missions that require the 752 (TATL or Hawaii), most of the other routes are best served with 738 and 737-900ER that are arriving gradually.

What UA/CO needs is rapid expansion internationally so solidify its leader position (only airline flying to all 4 BRIC countries nonstop from US) - meaning, all the 787 and 350 and 748 they could get their hands on. The 359 is not a proper replacement for 744 (even the 350-1000 is marginal).
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:13 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 6):
Those ETOPS 752 are flat-bed BusinessFirst ... a bit overkill for the west coast to Hawaii market that is bombarded with HA and AS ?

That is less overkill than putting them on domestic markets as others here are suggesting. If they do replace a fair amount of the EWR birds with widebodies, where do you put those 757's? Easiest choice would be to put them right where you got the 763's. Hawaii would be one of those places. I'm not saying it's the best choice, but it is a choice. They could also use them for intra-asia service on the HKG-SIN/SGN, NRT-HKG, NRT-ICN, etc... That way your premium pax get to keep their premium experience instead of being on a domestic 739.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:24 pm

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 16):
That is less overkill than putting them on domestic markets as others here are suggesting.

Aren't they planning to put BF seats into p.s. planes and switch to 2 class ? Why not just return/park the PMUA 752 p.s. planes, take these from PMCO, add a few more BF seats, and put them on JFK-SFO/LAX ?

The problem with the intra-Asian routes is that they all arrive and depart as a bank, so utilization is very low if there's a dedicated fleet. The 738 works because they rotate with CO Micronesia routes ? A 2-class 763 on HKG-NRT would be good balance since that plane could go onward to a smaller destination like SEA (with NH picking up the slack via 788)

Isn't GUM-HNL flown with 764? Maybe a creative routing like SIN-HKG-GUM-HNL for that plane.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:32 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 17):
Aren't they planning to put BF seats into p.s. planes and switch to 2 class ? Why not just return/park the PMUA 752 p.s. planes, take these from PMCO, add a few more BF seats, and put them on JFK-SFO/LAX ?

Because they can't just return that many aircraft willy nilly. You're talking about a significant number of aircraft that will likely find homes in several different niches until retirement.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:40 pm

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 18):
Because they can't just return that many aircraft willy nilly. You're talking about a significant number of aircraft that will likely find homes in several different niches until retirement.

How big is the p.s. fleet ? 13 planes ? That's reasonably small.
 
nycdave
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:54 pm

So glad someone posted this -- I've really been wondering about it, since the combined UA will have such a huge 757 fleet, with a pretty wide range of past usage. PMCO is almost all ETOPS, winglets, BF, updated interiors, and had been used extensively on TATL operations. PMUA had far fewer ETOPS 752's, with most getting used domestically in several configs, many with aging, outdated interiors (not to mention some old Battleship liveries that look just about ready to peel off).

Wasn't sure whether there was any chance (or purpose) to upgrading some of the PMUA 757's to ETOPS, fitting them with winglets, etc... or whether most of the fleet was just waiting to be pushed off the roster for 321s and 739s.

Quoting flyhossd (Reply 5):
Given that UA/CO is parking 15 to 20 of the UA757s, I expect the CO757s that are replaced on transatlantic routes by UA763s, to do more domestic flying between hubs and major cities and on trans-cons (just my opinion).

Wouldn't that be kind of a waste of the PMCO 752's capabilities? I'd imagine they'd sooner use those to expand frequency and open new routes TATL.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 17):
Why not just return/park the PMUA 752 p.s. planes, take these from PMCO, add a few more BF seats, and put them on JFK-SFO/LAX ?

the p.s. planes, IIRC, are in good condition with relatively few cycles on them for their age... I'd imagine there's quite a lot of PMUA 752's that are much better candidates for retirement. Plus, there's no need for ETOPS on the p.s. services, so why waste one on it?
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:01 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 19):
How big is the p.s. fleet ? 13 planes ? That's reasonably small.

I'm thinking more of the 41 units that CO brought to the table.
 
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drerx7
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:01 pm

Quoting nycdave (Reply 20):
(not to mention some old Battleship liveries that look just about ready to peel off).

Battleship gray is just about finished though according to the UA/CO repaint thread.

Quoting nycdave (Reply 20):
I'd imagine they'd sooner use those to expand frequency and open new routes TATL.

I'd think that there would not be too many more opportunities there...some really should head to IAH to investigate South America - and head west coast to Hawaii runs to remedy the payload restricted 737s.
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mogandoCI
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:02 pm

Quoting nycdave (Reply 20):
the p.s. planes, IIRC, are in good condition with relatively few cycles on them for their age... I'd imagine there's quite a lot of PMUA 752's that are much better candidates for retirement. Plus, there's no need for ETOPS on the p.s. services, so why waste one on it?

Even without the ETOPS requirement, the winglets alone shave 2-3% SFC ? Wouldn't that help on a longer cruise like p.s. transcon, and save the PMUA fleet for shorter hops.

ps : if a plane flies over-water but reasonably close to land along the entire way (HKG-SIN, MIA-LGA etc), does that count as ETOPS? i'm guessing no ?
 
timberwolf24
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:07 pm

It would be nice to see UA/CO 757s be used to start ORD-MAN/GLA/BHX or BFS.
Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!
 
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drerx7
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:08 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 23):
ps : if a plane flies over-water but reasonably close to land along the entire way (HKG-SIN, MIA-LGA etc), does that count as ETOPS? i'm guessing no ?

Not really - however, the birds have to be overwater equipped, rafts etc. I believe that ICAO has minimum 90minutes without needing ETOPS180 certification and FAA 60mins? Not terrible sure on those numbers though.
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Eirules
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:07 pm

Which routes that are currently PMCO 752 routes are likely to be replaced with 2 class 763s? EWR-LHR seems like a prime candidate along with IAD-AMS & IAD-CDG
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mogandoCI
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:21 pm

Quoting EIRules (Reply 26):
Which routes that are currently PMCO 752 routes are likely to be replaced with 2 class 763s? EWR-LHR seems like a prime candidate along with IAD-AMS & IAD-CDG

EWR to any of the SkyTeam or oneworld hubs, sans LHR. That one needs 3-class planes, even if only 8F.
 
nycdave
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:59 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 22):
I'd think that there would not be too many more opportunities there...some really should head to IAH to investigate South America - and head west coast to Hawaii runs to remedy the payload restricted 737s.

You're forgetting just how far most of the urban centers of SA are. GIG is out of range for a 752 flying from IAH, and everything below that follows. Northern SA and Central America they already have pretty good coverage on.

Good point on the 738's, but they already have some 767's on Hawaii routes, so why not up capacity with those? Fair enough though -- putting ETOPS 752s on Hawaii would make sense.

But I think there's still PLENTY of places they could go TATL - though probably building up frequency would be a better use first.

DUS, CGN, PRG, MRS, LYS, GOA, HEL, VIE, BUD... plenty of places they could start new service, too...
 
Viscount724
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:16 pm

Quoting flyhossd (Reply 5):
Given the frequency of the diversions for fuel stops when westbound across the Atlantic, I don't expect many more transatlantic 757 flights out of IAD. I'm still surprised no one has developed an aux fuel tank STC for the 757s.

There have been 2 UA fuel stops on westbound 757 flights to IAD in the past 10 days. Following from Transport Canada daily incident summaries.

December 10:

UAL131, a Boeing 757 operated by United Airlines, was on an IFR flight from Paris/Charles-de-Gaulle (LFPG) to Washington (KIAD). At 1712Z, when the aircraft was approximately 45 NM southwest of the HINGE intersection, the crew requested to be redirected to Boston (KBOS) for fuel reasons. No emergency was declared and no assistance was requested. No impact on ATC operations.


December 17:

The United Air Lines, Inc. Boeing 757-200 (operating as flight UAL125) was on a scheduled IFR flight from Amsterdam (EHAM) to Washington (Dulles) (KIAD). NAV CANADA staff at Montréal ACC reported that while en-route, in the vicinity over Ottawa, the flight crew requested to divert to Albany (KALB) due to fuel concerns. No emergency was declared and co-ordination was arranged.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:18 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 2):
However there are 41 TATL 757s and I think it's entirely possible that some could transfer out to NRT and GUM for Asia flying. They would definitely be better suited for some of the short/medium haul missions than the 737s.

This may make sense for a few units as the 752 can expand GUM to markets longer than the 73NG can operate. GUM-SYD/MEL/DPS/JKT. However, these aircraft are equipped with BF seating, which would probably be removed on a subfleet to equal 737NG and PMUA 772 equipment currently serving GUM.

Quoting flyhossd (Reply 5):
I'm still surprised no one has developed an aux fuel tank STC for the 757s.

That would be nice, but probably costly and the question would be how much payload would have to be dropped to gain added fuel.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 17):
Isn't GUM-HNL flown with 764? Maybe a creative routing like SIN-HKG-GUM-HNL for that plane.

It's now flown with a PMUA 772 Hawaiian configured aircraft. The 764 Hawaiian aircraft are now flying routes like HNL-SFO and HNL-DEN. A nice swap.

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 22):
some really should head to IAH to investigate South America

Maybe IAH-LPB-VVI-IAH round robin like AA as LPB is 13,000 ft. and IAH-REC.

Quoting timberwolf24 (Reply 24):
It would be nice to see UA/CO 757s be used to start ORD-MAN/GLA/BHX or BFS.

Logical markets when some EWR flying goes 763. ORD-Ireland as well.

As for swapping of equipment, we may see downgrade in gauge a bit on domestic flying.:
- 763ER reconfigs to 2 class international pick up many PMCO EWR TATL routes and some TATL IAD routes with heavier coach demand and lower premium demand. They also can be used to expand to locations east of Germany as the 752 was unable to make these routes and CO was short of widebodies. HEL/PRG/VIE/VCE/WAW/BUD/VCE/WAW/ZAG/BEG/KPB/SVO should be looked at.
- 753s take over for many 763ER routes (West Coast-Hawaii and Hub to Hub routes. I know only half of PMCO 753s are ETOPS, but they could either upgrade the rest or operate a subfleet. The 753 ETOPS subfleet could pretty much swap out with the 763ER reconfigs.
- PMUA non-ETOPS domestic 752s take over for many 753 routes - LAS/MCO
- New delivery 739s take over for many PM752 aircraft.
- PMUA 752 ETOPS continue with Hawaii
- PMCO 752s move to or stay on less competitive routes from EWR, ORD and IAD to Ireland and England/Scotland. This would include new markets and/or frequency increases. TATL with reasonable range limits is the best place for these 41 units to keep cycles down and match the offerings of lie flat and international AVOD (no TV/WiFi). As these aircraft age, they could replace PMUA ops aircraft in the future, where they could operate into/out of Maintenance stations and have low utilization.
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FlyHossD
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:45 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 29):
There have been 2 UA fuel stops on westbound 757 flights to IAD in the past 10 days. Following from Transport Canada daily incident summaries.

Thanks for the information. Does this include the aircraft that were flight planned to have a fuel stop as it was clear at the beginning that a non-stop wasn't possible? Or just unscheduled fuel diversions?

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 30):

Quoting flyhossd (Reply 5):
I'm still surprised no one has developed an aux fuel tank STC for the 757s.

That would be nice, but probably costly and the question would be how much payload would have to be dropped to gain added fuel.

I believe a couple thousand pounds of fuel would have prevented most (not all) diversions.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
Viscount724
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:59 pm

Quoting flyhossd (Reply 31):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 29):
There have been 2 UA fuel stops on westbound 757 flights to IAD in the past 10 days. Following from Transport Canada daily incident summaries.

Thanks for the information. Does this include the aircraft that were flight planned to have a fuel stop as it was clear at the beginning that a non-stop wasn't possible? Or just unscheduled fuel diversions?

I think the Transport Canada occurrence reports only cover unplanned events.
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:54 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 32):
I think the Transport Canada occurrence reports only cover unplanned events.

True.

My crystal ball:

The PMCO 752's aren't going to do transcon unless they are phased into p.s. service though I'm pretty certain the 739ER will be the a/c that will be used.

The ETOPS 752's for CO will continue to Europe and possibly expand offerings in the UK/Ireland and Northern Europe. They don't have the range to do deep South America save Bolivia and they don't need the premium set up for Hawaii. Though they would be good for the NRT hub, the utilization would be too low to make sense and they don't want to waste ETOPS a/c on a non-ETOPS route. Best they be used to up frequency in existing markets or open up new thin routes as they continue to wait for the 787's.
 
gigneil
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:58 am

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 13):
dimes to dollars that IAH-BOS/LGA/DCA will be 757.

CO barely fills 73Gs on IAH-DCA. Nonrev dream.

NS
 
laca773
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:09 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
They haven't begun the reconfiguration yet, they are not going to stay in domestic (Hawaii) service

I could see some LAX-HNL/OGG going with the 753s (if they are going to become ETOPs capable. They do have blended winglets, so this would be a great a/c for LAX-HNL/OGG markets.
LAX-KOA/LIH/ can be operated with a mix of 73H/739ER/75Ws and OGG 753/75W/73H/739ER depending on the demand and number of frequencies they are going to have.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 11):

UA 757 routes:
EWR-LAS/MCO/MIA/SEA/IAH and PHX/LAX-EWR (only one way bookable.)
IAH-BOS/LGA
CLE-LAX/SFO

UA 319/320 routes:
EWR-SAT
CLE-LAX/SFO/MCO
IAH-PHL

Hey Tommy,

You have some good thoughts on these, however, are any of the PMUA 757s birds going to be updated with AVOD through out? EWR-LAS/SEA/PHX/LAX/SFO need an a/c with updated, more premium cabins (i.e. PMCO 73H/739ERs etc..) over the older, outdated hard product on the PMUA 75s. I say the same for CLE midcons. Mid/transcons need to have the updated hard product with IFE AVOD through out. Very important from a competitive standpoint.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 13):
imes to dollars that IAH-BOS/LGA/DCA will be 757.

UA A319/A320:
IAH-PHL/DTW/SAN

UA 757:
IAH-SEA/LAS/EWR/LAX

Also EWR-SFO is going up to 3-4x UA metal next summer so I'd expect a UA 777 on this route come 2012

The 757 is probably too large an a/c for IAH-DCA. This would be better served with 73G/73H/A319/A320s.

IAH-SEA/LAS/EWR/LAX/SFO/SAN are already flown with 753s a great deal. CO used to send more 75Ws on this route before they were flown so extensively to Europe (I've flown one of the morning 75Ws LAX-IAH, which then continued onto EWR and either Germany or Ireland. ).
 
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drerx7
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:31 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 34):

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 13):
dimes to dollars that IAH-BOS/LGA/DCA will be 757.

CO barely fills 73Gs on IAH-DCA. Nonrev dream.

Really? Its been full every time I've flown it and once on a 738...maybe it had a lot of non revs though.
I'd expect that to be a good 319 route.
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tommy767
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:43 pm

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 16):
That is less overkill than putting them on domestic markets as others here are suggesting. If they do replace a fair amount of the EWR birds with widebodies,

Why would it be overkill? There are only 16 BF seats -- not like there's 26-30 of the BF lie flats on the 757. UA regularly flies the PMCO 757s on EWR-LAX/SFO several times a day.

Quoting nycdave (Reply 20):
PMUA had far fewer ETOPS 752's, with most getting used domestically in several configs, many with aging, outdated interiors (not to mention some old Battleship liveries that look just about ready to peel off).

Let's get one thing straight about the PMUA 757s -- they aren't NEARLY as bad as some people on this forum want to make them out to be. Are they not as nice as PMCO 757s? Sure, but they were used for completely different purposes on United. Most were used on short and medium haul routings. CO never had the liberty to do this with their mere 41 757s. And most PMUA 757's are in better interior shape than many AA, US, and even DL (not 75X) 757s.

A typical PMUA 757 has overhead CRT monitors, comfortable Y seats with adjustable headrests, a big Y+ section, and 24 F seats. Other than some funky wallpaper in the bathrooms, I don't understand what is so bad about these particular aircrafts.

Quoting timberwolf24 (Reply 24):
It would be nice to see UA/CO 757s be used to start ORD-MAN/GLA/BHX or BFS.

Based on the recent IAD-CDG/AMS adds, I'm not sure if ORD-MAN/GLA/BHX would be able to make it during the winter months.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 30):
However, these aircraft are equipped with BF seating, which would probably be removed on a subfleet to equal 737NG and PMUA 772 equipment currently serving GUM.

Why would this need to happen? I would figure lie flats in the GUM market would be competitive.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 30):
- New delivery 739s take over for many PM752 aircraft.

Define 'many' ?

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 30):
Quoting gigneil (Reply 34):
CO barely fills 73Gs on IAH-DCA. Nonrev dream.

I find that absolutely shocking.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 35):
are any of the PMUA 757s birds going to be updated with AVOD through out? EWR-LAS/SEA/PHX/LAX/SFO need an a/c with updated, more premium cabins (i.e. PMCO 73H/739ERs etc..) over the older, outdated hard product on the PMUA 75s. I say the same for CLE midcons. Mid/transcons need to have the updated hard product with IFE AVOD through out. Very important from a competitive standpoint.

UA is run by a bean counter -- he will make decisions based on what routings are appropriate for each aircraft and go from there. I don't think he's taking into account that EWR or CLE flyers are used to a more "premium" standard of aircraft. It's assumed that these FF's are going to have to suck it up and deal. And in the end it works out, because all UA birds have Y+ and I often wonder how many CO FF's get stuck in the back of a 737 because there isn't enough premium seating.
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SonomaFlyer
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:54 pm

I think people are confusing the economic reality with the aircraft enthusiast when it comes to domestic flying....

In the new reality of the airline industry, the idea UA would put a flat bed equipped 757 on a domestic (and non p.s.) route except for re positioning is crazy. Domestic service is a different product from international and they aren't going to put lie flat seats on a domestic product unless there is literally no where internationally the a/c could be profitably deployed.

The money is not in domestic flying anymore when you look at the price competition from the LCC's. The legacy carriers can still make a domestic profit but they really have to watch their costs and right size the a/c and service to what the market will bear. I just don't see UA putting a flat bed product consistently on a ORD to LAX route or DEN to IAD etc.

UA is in the process of booting some of the PMUA 757's out of the fleet. They are likely due for expensive maintenance and it would be expensive to bring that a/c up to the standards already set for the other overhauls previously announced for the fleet. I suspect the newer ones will be upgraded and put on international routes and then be phased out within 10 or so years as the 787's deploy.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:02 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 38):
In the new reality of the airline industry, the idea UA would put a flat bed equipped 757 on a domestic (and non p.s.) route except for re positioning is crazy. Domestic service is a different product from international and they aren't going to put lie flat seats on a domestic product unless there is literally no where internationally the a/c could be profitably deployed.

Since the legacies are having trouble competing on price with LCCs, the only way to differentiate themselves is being more premium. p.s.-level service definitely can exist beyond 2 routes. The question is - who has the guts to take a stab at it.

For UA, that means NYC-SEA and LAX/SFO IAD/BOS. Doesn't have to be full flat bed but at least the same level as VirginAmerican First class.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:04 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 37):
Why would it be overkill? There are only 16 BF seats -- not like there's 26-30 of the BF lie flats on the 757. UA regularly flies the PMCO 757s on EWR-LAX/SFO several times a day.

Which is not the primary territory of the UA 757's. There is a small fleet that flies that type of mission. What about ORD-DEN? Or anything that is not transcon. You absolutely do not want to schedule any real volume of flights with full lay-flat's etc on those, it's a waste of resources. UA's non-PS 75's and CO's 75's are configured for entirely different missions.
 
tommy767
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:08 pm

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 40):
Which is not the primary territory of the UA 757's. There is a small fleet that flies that type of mission. What about ORD-DEN? Or anything that is not transcon. You absolutely do not want to schedule any real volume of flights with full lay-flat's etc on those, it's a waste of resources.

ORD-DEN is regularly flown with a 3-class UA 777. I don't understand why a PMCO 757 wouldn't be appropriate for a route such as this one.

A waste of resources? Explain why UA already flies them on: EWR-SFO/LAX/DEN/PBI/FLL/MIA/MCO/SDQ/AUA etc? Does EWR-PBI have 'demand' for a lie flat? No, but they do it anyway.
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mogandoCI
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:09 pm

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 40):
Which is not the primary territory of the UA 757's. There is a small fleet that flies that type of mission. What about ORD-DEN? Or anything that is not transcon. You absolutely do not want to schedule any real volume of flights with full lay-flat's etc on those, it's a waste of resources. UA's non-PS 75's and CO's 75's are configured for entirely different missions.

p.s. is an extension of the Pacific flights for PMUA. Now they need to do the same at EWR to be an extension of Atlantic flights (keeping existing JFK but add EWR at lower frequency).

If I'm flying CDG-EWR-SFO in business class I'd hate to have 40% of my flight time in a painful "domestic First" seat.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:16 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 41):
ORD-DEN is regularly flown with a 3-class UA 777. I don't understand why a PMCO 757 wouldn't be appropriate for a route such as this one.

Dude, you're confusing repositioning flights with ideal routings.
 
tommy767
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:36 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 42):

expect EWR-SFO to not be operated by PS, but by widebodies -- 777s and 763s likely.

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 43):

But they operate the flight -- meaning while it's technically 'repositioning' it still is an important route for them to serve with a 3 class 777.
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mogandoCI
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:02 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 44):
expect EWR-SFO to not be operated by PS, but by widebodies -- 777s and 763s likely.

That's good too. That would simultaneously fulfill p.s. role while allowing international flights on both ends to be fed properly.
 
tommy767
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:13 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 45):
That's good too. That would simultaneously fulfill p.s. role while allowing international flights on both ends to be fed properly.

Yup. And honestly, EWR has a lot of premium demand, but not enough to justify PS services.
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kgaiflyer
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:14 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 34):
CO barely fills 73Gs on IAH-DCA. Nonrev dream.

????

Last time I did IAH-DCA (December 10th) CO was flying "sky interior" 738s and not 73NGs. And my experience has been that first and last flights of the day are packed. During the day, though, you will find a middle seat here and there.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:00 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 47):
Last time I did IAH-DCA (December 10th) CO was flying "sky interior" 738s and not 73NGs. And my experience has been that first and last flights of the day are packed. During the day, though, you will find a middle seat here and there.

Today IAH-DCA is booked at 63% (5 flights) for the day and DCA-IAH is booked even at 100% for the day (4 flights)
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: UA757 - Deployment Plans

Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:20 pm

Quoting timberwolf24 (Reply 24):
It would be nice to see UA/CO 757s be used to start ORD-MAN/GLA/BHX or BFS.

Seasonal ORD-SNN? They could always replace the second daily EWR-SNN flight...