bjorn14
Topic Author
Posts: 3552
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:11 pm

TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:19 pm

Now the TSA is afraid of cupcakes with 'gel-like' characteristics.

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/r/30062442/detail.html

When will they stop being stupid?
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
User avatar
viaggiare
Posts: 1427
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:56 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:27 pm

This is beyond safety and into retarded.. TSA is nothing but a federal jobs program.
Entre el fuerte y el débil, la libertad oprime. Sólo la ley libera.
 
User avatar
airportugal310
Posts: 3217
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:50 pm

HAHA I love being from this area....

"Wicked Good Cupcakes"...what a name  

This line right here says it all though:

“Apparently we're a tasty, terrorist threat. I guess we were also amazed at what can pass through security in one airport, but not in another,” said Brian Vilagie of Wicked Good Cupcakes.

Inconsistency is the reason they get the flak they do, methinks...
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
toobz
Posts: 634
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:33 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:03 pm

LOL of course they deem it as a threat....most ridiculous piece of government ever created.
Nobody should be shocked at this...lol
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23206
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:12 pm

The primary function of a bureaucracy is to maintain said bureaucracy so the TSA will deem anything and anyone a threat to Transportation Security in order to keep the dollars coming in perpetuity.

Of course, it doesn't help we have ass-hats who try to set fire to their shoes and shampoo bottles, which then gives the TSA a new reason to crow about how necessary it is and a new round of regulations the traveling public needs to abide by.

[Edited 2011-12-23 14:14:23]
 
ckfred
Posts: 4734
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:20 pm

There used to be a show on the Discovery Channel called Future Weapons, hosted by a former U.S. Navy SEAL. On one episode, they showed an x-ray machine that could also analyze liquids, whether they were in metal, plastic, or glass containers, clear or opaque. The machine was able to detect various aspects, including density, against a very long list of liquids, and determine if they were safe or in need of further scrutiny. It could even tell if a beverage (cola, iced tea, clear carbonated beverage) was sweetened with sugar or sugar substitutes.

China had purchased a number of the devices to use as a part of their security screening for people entering venues during the 2008 Olympics, and TSA had ordered a number of them.

The person from the manufacturer, who demonstrated the machine, said that it would eliminate the current TSA restrictions on liquids in carry-on bags.

So, if China had these devices more than 3 years ago, why doesn't TSA have them now at U.S. airports?
 
airbazar
Posts: 6941
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:35 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 5):
So, if China had these devices more than 3 years ago, why doesn't TSA have them now at U.S. airports?

Because it costs money and if you've been following the bickering between the two political parties over this country's finances, it will be a very long time until we can start spending again.
 
silentbob
Posts: 1540
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:55 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 5):
So, if China had these devices more than 3 years ago, why doesn't TSA have them now at U.S. airports?

Because the manufacturer hasn't contributed to the re-election campaigns of enough politicians. Our government will only do the right thing if it also happens to personally benefit the folks in power more than the other options.
 
toltommy
Posts: 2497
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:19 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 6):
Because it costs money and if you've been following the bickering between the two political parties over this country's finances, it will be a very long time until we can start spending again.

Our government has no problem spending. We don't need to "start spending again".
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15323
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:07 am

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):

The funny/sad thing is that the front line employees are actually the smarter ones in the TSA. The regulators, policy makers, and employees higher up behind the scenes are breathtakingly incompetent.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Yflyer
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:05 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:11 am

I think I would have just eaten the cupcake at the checkpoint rather than letting them confiscate it.
 
kaitak
Posts: 8967
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:18 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
The funny/sad thing is that the front line employees are actually the smarter ones in the TSA. The regulators, policy makers, and employees higher up behind the scenes are breathtakingly incompetent.

It is actually not just sad, but very serious, because this kind of nonsense undermines everything that is done to enhance security; brainless morons like this should be sacked; the most important weapon is not blind adherence to rules, but brain power and these people clearly don't have it.
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 19820
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:22 am

I am ashamed to be American and ashamed of my country, but most of all my countrymen.

This SHOULD cause outrage. This SHOULD have people literally rioting in the streets because it is a complete flouting of the Constitution. Oh, the courts ruled, blah blah blah blah. Enough "case law" and the Constitution will be worthless. We'll have security checks at random on the street.

Instead, Americans just don't want to be inconvenienced, so they go along with it. I've written letters to my elected officials about this. Why am I one of the few?
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
toltommy
Posts: 2497
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:34 am

CAK TSA refused to allow a passenger carry a Le Crueset cast iron skillet thru the checkpoint. They said that the 30 pound skillet "could be a weapon". Apparently the pen in the passengers purse wasn't considered a weapon, but in all reality could be a weapon just as easily, if not easier.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:35 am

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 2):
Inconsistency is the reason they get the flak they do, methinks...

As far as I am concerned, you're entirely correct. My personal experiences with TSA checkpoint staff have all been uneventful or even pleasant - either that or I'm really good at forgetting the bad ones - so I'm not in any way personally biased. But a couple of years ago, I passed through one and the same checkpoint at ORD with exactly the same cabin luggage within relatively little time a total of three times; not because I was trying to test them, but for other good reasons. The first time they didn't notice anything, the second they checked out a metal pen and the third time they had a closer look at a metal coffee mug that I had bought as a souvenir.

That made me wonder.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
This SHOULD cause outrage.

If only this sort of blunder made it into the gossip rags...
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
ckfred
Posts: 4734
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:47 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 6):
Because it costs money and if you've been following the bickering between the two political parties over this country's finances, it will be a very long time until we can start spending again.
Quoting silentbob (Reply 7):
Because the manufacturer hasn't contributed to the re-election campaigns of enough politicians. Our government will only do the right thing if it also happens to personally benefit the folks in power more than the other options.

Yet, TSA bought all of those body scanners, which no one likes, including some members of Congress. And the gentleman from the manufacturer said that TSA had ordered them.
 
ckfred
Posts: 4734
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:52 am

Here's the website for the x-ray machine that can detect explosives in liquids: www.smithsdetection.com. The machine is a HI-SCAN 6040a TiX.
 
silentbob
Posts: 1540
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:02 am

Quoting ckfred (Reply 15):
Yet, TSA bought all of those body scanners, which no one likes, including some members of Congress. And the gentleman from the manufacturer said that TSA had ordered them.

And the man that was instrumental in getting the order placed for the TSA is now working for one of the manufacturers. Purely coincidental
 
dw9115
Posts: 382
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:54 pm

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:41 am

This is completely absurd the TSA and for that matter the DHS are completely useless bureaucratic wastes of money. They add no real safety to the traveling public all true security threats that have happened since 9/11 have been stopped by other agencies or the average citizen. They both need to be done away with and the "Patriot Act" as well because as much as some in Washington D.C. may think they can take away American citizens rights by passage of an unconstitutional law guess what they can't only an amendment to the Constitution can do such a thing. Its about time the average citizen stands up to this B.S. and reminds the fools in Washington D.C. that the final say sits with the people per the Constitution not with the federal or state governments. Also the federal government needs to remember its place and that it has limited powers and the states in fact control their fate and the ultimate power sits with the people according to the founding fathers and Constitution.
 
santi319
Posts: 324
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:50 am

"The people don't want war, but they can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and for exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country." - Hermann Goering.
 
Tbone354
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:11 pm

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:39 pm

This is typical as to why I no longer fly. Being held up at airports for hours while cupcakes are confiscated and examined etc. Outrageous! My sainted 86 year old mother was pulled aside in PHL because her hip replacement set some thing off. She and my father nearly missed their flight to FLL. Had I gone I would probably been yanked for my insulin. Insanity. Even a terrorist rocket scientist turned rocket surgeon could figure out that the small airports and or private aircraft are not screened for bombs. What is to stop some lunatic from renting a Cessna 152, loading a dirty bomb in it, taking off and crashing that plane into the Sears Tower or somewhere? All too easy. Not as flashy as slamming a 767 into a building but just as effective, maybe more so. And we are talking about visible things here. How about infecting some terrorist with a contagious deadly strain of disease or infection and put him on an airliner from say FRA to JFK. He will infect people at the departure airport, all on board the flight, then he and the PAX will all infect everybody they come in contact with and so on and so on. This could kill millions before it could be brought under some kind of control. I have no doubt that there are many labs world wide growing these strains of bacteria just begging for some nut to get their hands on some of them. But TSA is far more concerned with that little baby and it’s pablum and strained tapioca.
 
IntruderPC
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:08 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:57 pm

The TSA scrutineer got an attack of the munchies and took it out on a passenger by takeing her snack!!!!   
This one was really such a moron!!   
A-6's and Navy Air forever!!!
 
26point2
Posts: 816
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:01 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:24 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
I am ashamed to be American and ashamed of my country, but most of all my countrymen.

This SHOULD cause outrage

I agree! Who carries 2 cupcakes to LAS and later brings 1 of them home? Disgraceful!
 
ozark1
Posts: 640
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:38 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:41 pm

This is why people hate the airlines---when it has nothing to do with them. To have this kind of experience before you even board sets the mood for the entire trip. The TSA is a JOKE. This is such a ridiculously inconsistent, unnecessarily invasive governmental embarrassment. I used to think the FAA got the vote for the worst, but the TSA makes them look like a well run operation.
 
ContnlEliteCMH
Posts: 1376
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:19 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:15 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 6):
Because it costs money and if you've been following the bickering between the two political parties over this country's finances, it will be a very long time until we can start spending again.

Aside from the laughable implication that spending has somehow stopped, I think you miss the mark entirely. The reason that we don't have these newer liquid scanning machines is because they might make the screening process more effective and even more efficient. In turn, fewer TSA employees might be necessary to do the same work. This is an intolerable outcome. If you've never seen a government bureaucracy "up close and personal" (say, because you've been a contractor for them), please understand that no decision like this is ever evaluated without an impact on headcount. Anything that reduces headcount faces impediments to acceptance regardless of how beneficial other outcomes may obviously be. Headcount may not be discussed out loud, but be assured it is involved.

Headcount matters for two reasons:

(1) The 'crat in charge of an operation measures his power by his budget. A reduction in headcount will mean a reduction in his budget. No 'crat want's to be devalued by a reduction of his budget.

(2) People in our government truly believe that a legitimate purpose of government is to create and maintain government jobs because those people might otherwise not have jobs. They take a dim view of anything that reduces government employment.

Recognition of these factors helps us understand why the TSA and DHS behave they way they do. They are acting quite rationally, within the context of the factors by which their world is judged. We may find that world perverse and objectionable, but we should at least understand it.

As for cupcake being a threat, well.... I'd lick all the icing off of it in front of the wonk who wasn't smart enough to know that cupcake icing isn't a threat, and then resubmit it for screening. You can't let a wicked good cupcake go to waste!
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
 
T5towbar
Posts: 430
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:06 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:48 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 6):
Quoting ckfred (Reply 5):
So, if China had these devices more than 3 years ago, why doesn't TSA have them now at U.S. airports?

Because it costs money and if you've been following the bickering between the two political parties over this country's finances, it will be a very long time until we can start spending again.

So True. Gridlock at it's finest.

Quoting silentbob (Reply 7):
Quoting ckfred (Reply 5):
So, if China had these devices more than 3 years ago, why doesn't TSA have them now at U.S. airports?

Because the machines Chertoff gave us is not that sophisticated enough.

Because the manufacturer hasn't contributed to the re-election campaigns of enough politicians. Our government will only do the right thing if it also happens to personally benefit the folks in power more than the other options.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ All true. This country revolves around the dollar. C.R.E.A.M.
"Corporations are People Too, My Friend" - Willard Romney
We don't count in this equation.

Quoting dw9115 (Reply 18):
This is completely absurd the TSA and for that matter the DHS are completely useless bureaucratic wastes of money. They add no real safety to the traveling public all true security threats that have happened since 9/11 have been stopped by other agencies or the average citizen. They both need to be done away with and the "Patriot Act" as well because as much as some in Washington D.C. may think they can take away American citizens rights by passage of an unconstitutional law guess what they can't only an amendment to the Constitution can do such a thing. Its about time the average citizen stands up to this B.S. and reminds the fools in Washington D.C. that the final say sits with the people per the Constitution not with the federal or state governments. Also the federal government needs to remember its place and that it has limited powers and the states in fact control their fate and the ultimate power sits with the people according to the founding fathers and Constitution.

I don't like the Patriot Act either for various reasons. Neither taking off my shoes or carrying more than 3 ounces of liquids. That's two things they should not do. But we have to live with it until something comes better and we won't have to do that dance anymore.

As I said in previous post before, and I'll keep saying it again: How do you improve on the TSA?

The TSA has a thankless job trying to balance security with civil liberties. That's not easy. People will bitch, moan, and complain. The airlines and the airports wont pay for actual LEO to do screenings. That cost a lot of money. Some members of Congress complains because TSA has uniforms and badges, and want to make laws taking that away from them. That's absurd. All or most security companies at the airports wear uniforms with badges as well. Instead of bitching about them, they should work with them to improve their training and intelligence capabilities if there is a threat. Let's make that clear: they are not LEO's. They are just the first line. I don't think we should go back to private security corps. where the screeners were much worse than it is now. Or outfits like a Blackwater and other mercenary companies who get "cost plus" contracts. You have former military trained people in the TSA today, and we'll probably get more since the drawdown of troops in Iraq. They can bring a lot to the table as well. But the upper level bureaucrats is the problem, not the screeners.

I meet TSA people every day. These are people just like you and me. They have good days and bad days. They are not perfect, and so aren't the passengers as well.
I'm just thinking practical of what I see every day.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
macsog6
Posts: 217
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:25 pm

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:13 pm

TSA at BOS seems to me to have always had an issue based upon their failure to identify a number of 9-11 terrorists who boarded in BOS. A few weeks ago, while boarding an AA flight there, I was going through the TSA checkpoint. I wear a rather expensive watch that has great sentimental value to me so, rather than put in in the tray to be x-rayed, I carry it in my hand through the x-ray machine TSA uses there. As I exited, the TSA agent took my watch from me, looked at it, and asked me to prove it was a watch.

I told him I thought the burden of proof was on him to prove it wasn't as I had a right against self-incrimination. He became rather flustered and called for a supervisor. The super arrived, looked at my watch, handed it to me, and apologized for delaying me.

TSA at Logan has a huge chip on their shoulder and seems to delight in finding some harmless item and making it into a threat, which, of course, means they lose all their credibility.
Sixty Plus Years of Flying! "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Saint Ex
 
eyflyer88
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:48 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:18 pm

The TSA should specify and add a clause about baked goods then (I'm being sarcastic).
As someone that travels very frequently both domestically and internationally I can honestly say this takes the TSA to a new level of ridiculousness. Below are the main guidelines for carry ons from www.tsa.gov - no mention of frosted cupcakes!

"3-1-1 for carry-ons = 3.4 ounce (100ml) bottle or less (by volume) ; 1 quart-sized, clear, plastic, zip-top bag; 1 bag per passenger placed in screening bin. One-quart bag per person limits the total liquid volume each traveler can bring. 3.4 ounce (100ml) container size is a security measure.

Declare larger liquids. Medications, baby formula and food, and breast milk are allowed in reasonable quantities exceeding three ounces and are not required to be in the zip-top bag. Declare these items for inspection at the checkpoint. Officers may need to open items to conduct additional screening."
There is no sport equal to that which aviators enjoy while being carried through the air on great white wings. - Wilbur
 
dw9115
Posts: 382
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:54 pm

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:47 pm

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 25):
The TSA has a thankless job trying to balance security with civil liberties.

There is no balance between the two according to the Constitution civil liberties rule supreme period the only way that can change is with a constitutional amendment which we have not had. So the TSA and DHS need to get off their high horse and learn their place and real role according to the rule of law not by what they feel like doing its that simple!
 
spacecadet
Posts: 2802
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:36 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:51 pm

Quoting Macsog6 (Reply 26):
TSA at BOS seems to me to have always had an issue based upon their failure to identify a number of 9-11 terrorists who boarded in BOS.

This didn't happen at BOS, it happened at LAS. The woman specifically says the TSA at BOS let her through with the cupcakes.

My experience has been similar; bigger cities that actually do have direct ties to past attacks have more reasonable TSA agents, for whatever reason. My last trip to PDX, I was able to take some shampoo and other toiletries that were maybe slightly bigger than the "allowed size" from JFK with no problem (the size actually was not labeled on them), but coming back from PDX, they were confiscated. The agent there said the same thing as this guy at LAS apparently said, that the agent at JFK wasn't doing his job. I actually told her I think the agents at JFK have a little more experience with this kind of thing than you do. Obviously, that didn't help, but I had already given up on getting my shampoo back at that point. The bottom line, though, is a bottle that's 1.6 ounces is not any more of a security threat than a bottle that's 1.5 ounces, and they're only confiscating stuff like that because of their "policy" rather than using any common sense about what might or might not be dangerous. Ditto for this cupcake, apparently, which is just a more ridiculous example of that same point.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
AirlineBrat
Posts: 483
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:40 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:54 pm

Since the human body is 60 to 70% liquid which equates to approximately 25 liters, I am surprised we are allowed through airport security. Before you know it we will be subjected bloodletting. After all human liquids have been fully drained, this dangerous liquid will be placed into legal sized containers which are then put into legal sized ziploc bags and run through the xray machine. If no monkey business is detected, we will get our liquids back and will be able continue on to the gate with no further complications.
I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7205
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:32 pm

I'm surprised its taken the TSA this long to confiscate cupcakes ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwGQ4nhw8go

 

[Edited 2011-12-24 11:33:07]

[Edited 2011-12-24 11:35:13]
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4640
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:56 pm

Quoting Macsog6 (Reply 26):
TSA at BOS seems to me to have always had an issue based upon their failure to identify a number of 9-11 terrorists who boarded in BOS.

Just to clarify, TSA wasn't around back then, and every single one of the hijackers were selected for secondary screening. Even the US ticket agent in PWM didn't want to board two of them, but found no legal reason to deny them boarding.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
FlyMeToTheMoon
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:01 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:07 pm

About a month into the liquids ban/restrictions the morons decided that a banana i had in my bag for breakfast the next morninging in ZRH was a security threat since they could not its contents. Enough said... Merry Christmas everyone minus the TSA - they don't even deserve coal, it could be a security risk after all...
Fly me to the moon... but not through LHR!
 
T5towbar
Posts: 430
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:06 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:29 pm

Quoting dw9115 (Reply 28):
Quoting T5towbar (Reply 25):
The TSA has a thankless job trying to balance security with civil liberties.

There is no balance between the two according to the Constitution civil liberties rule supreme period the only way that can change is with a constitutional amendment which we have not had. So the TSA and DHS need to get off their high horse and learn their place and real role according to the rule of law not by what they feel like doing its that simple!


I'm sorry, but it can be done. Yes the Constitution is very clear about those things. But there has to be the rule of law somewhere. The Federal Government, by an act of Congress created the DHS.
Police do it every day. And they are armed and can take a life too. TSA aren't armed and have no authority to arrest anyone. But they are tasked to be security at airports. So they are dammed if they do and damned if they don't. So a balance has to be struck. I know that they are the proverbial whipping boy at the moment.
What kind of security you want?
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
2175301
Posts: 726
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 11:19 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:13 pm

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 34):
What kind of security you want?

The TSA should do basic screening for major weapons and explosives; and as far as weapons go they should only ensure that you have the appropriate permits for the state you are leaving and your destination. To be clear - yes I am talking about letting people carry weapons onboard.

Have a great day,
 
shmax525
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:18 pm

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:18 pm

Everyone would agree that the TSA was in the wrong on this particular circumstance. I feel like one thing that needs to be kept in mind is that people specifically search for stories like this about the TSA. Considering how many people they screen daily, I feel they do a decent job.

Heck, I actually feel bad for the front line officers because the general public (media included) is absolutely brutal to them on a daily basis. And yeah I probably wouldn't be to pleasant either if I had to deal with the attitudes that the general public gives them for 8 hrs in a row. The fact is that the officers are following an SOP with some really dumb things in it, but it's still the SOP they have to follow if they want to keep their job. The SOP is the problem, not the officers.

The one thing that I have noticed over and over again is that if people would actually listen to the officers, they will tell you how to get through without any additional screening. In my experience they don't want you to alarm anything because they don't want to pat you down!
Airspeed, altitude or brains: Two are always needed to successfully complete the flight
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4640
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:35 pm

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 35):
To be clear - yes I am talking about letting people carry weapons onboard.

I'd be OK with small pocket knives and such, but guns? No way. I'm as pro-2nd Amendment as they get, but there's absolutely no reason for untrained civilians to be packing heat on airplanes. The risks far outweigh any potential benefit. Check it in.

Quoting shmax525 (Reply 36):
I feel like one thing that needs to be kept in mind is that people specifically search for stories like this about the TSA.

Just like people specifically search for stories about how great or evil Obama is. It's a straw man and doesn't mean anything.

Quoting shmax525 (Reply 36):
Considering how many people they screen daily, I feel they do a decent job.

With a >50% failure rate in mock runs? No way.

Quoting shmax525 (Reply 36):
Heck, I actually feel bad for the front line officers because the general public (media included) is absolutely brutal to them on a daily basis.

Boo. Friggen. Hoo. As a department with an amount of authority they shouldn't have, there's absolutely no excuse to not keep them on blast. Even with reasonable powers, they need to be closely watched, as closely as any police officer.

Doc was right: confiscating a friggen cupcake goes far beyond an "administrative search". It is a blatant violation of the 4th and 10th Amendments.

Quoting shmax525 (Reply 36):
The fact is that the officers are following an SOP with some really dumb things in it, but it's still the SOP they have to follow if they want to keep their job. The SOP is the problem, not the officers.

We're slowly going back to the days where "just following orders" is a valid excuse. It's extremely frightening.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
dw9115
Posts: 382
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:54 pm

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sun Dec 25, 2011 9:02 am

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 34):
I'm sorry, but it can be done. Yes the Constitution is very clear about those things. But there has to be the rule of law somewhere. The Federal Government, by an act of Congress created the DHS.
Police do it every day. And they are armed and can take a life too. TSA aren't armed and have no authority to arrest anyone. But they are tasked to be security at airports. So they are dammed if they do and damned if they don't. So a balance has to be struck. I know that they are the proverbial whipping boy at the moment.
What kind of security you want?

Well, the rule of law is the Constitution which does not allow for an encroachment of civil liberties like the DHS and TSA are committing period end of story! Congress can pass all the laws and acts they wish but they are not legal if they violate the Constitution period no room for discussion the founding fathers where very clear on that! Only an amendment to the Constitution can change any of this which we have not or if a person wishes to waive their Constitutional rights but at anytime can invoke them once again once again no room for discussion. You do not seem to understand the role of law enforcement and the role they play with ones Constitutional rights and laws deemed Constitutional. In fact the TSA and DHS violate a persons basic right to unreasonable search and seizure and due process on a daily basis and people are starting to get sick and tired of it and are filing lawsuits on Constitutional grounds and some have already won. Also it is not real security when they let celebrities pass right by security so they won't be surrounded by the public I would consider Shawn Penn more of a threat than most of the public. I mean really he goes around socializing with the very people that say they want to kill us but he is treated in a special manner? This is complete B.S. plain and simple. I took an oath to uphold the Constitution and to protect America from tyranny when I was in the military and the definition of tyranny is arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority. That explains the TSA, DHS and the Patriot Act completely.
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 1791
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:13 pm

This doesn't surprise me one bit. The TSA at LAS is THE WORST of all the domestic airports I have been through in terms of inconsistency.
 
2175301
Posts: 726
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 11:19 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:18 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 37):
I'd be OK with small pocket knives and such, but guns? No way. I'm as pro-2nd Amendment as they get, but there's absolutely no reason for untrained civilians to be packing heat on airplanes. The risks far outweigh any potential benefit.

Concealed permit holders, as a group, are some of the most law abiding citizens out there. That translates into a low risk.

Besides - I think that all hijackers now know that within the US that passengers will take them down if necessary (Flight 93 behavior).

I also believe that with the reinforced cockpit doors that the biggest security threat was solved.

Have a great day,
 
T5towbar
Posts: 430
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:06 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sun Dec 25, 2011 3:26 pm

Quoting dw9115 (Reply 38):
Well, the rule of law is the Constitution which does not allow for an encroachment of civil liberties like the DHS and TSA are committing period end of story! Congress can pass all the laws and acts they wish but they are not legal if they violate the Constitution period no room for discussion the founding fathers where very clear on that! Only an amendment to the Constitution can change any of this which we have not or if a person wishes to waive their Constitutional rights but at anytime can invoke them once again once again no room for discussion. You do not seem to understand the role of law enforcement and the role they play with ones Constitutional rights and laws deemed Constitutional.

I understand the Fourth Amendment pretty clear. Especially as of late. And I do not like the Patriot Act. That was a knee jerk reaction, the law was rushed and was not though out. And especially the very illegal wiretapping. The previous administration had a lot of political motives behind it. And all of the machinations and ramifications "in the name of security." There was a recent incident where a politically connected person brought a gun to NYC, even though the gun wasn't registered here. Bloomberg kept it quiet and this person didn't get a gun rap. He was released. Tell that to Plaxico. And he shot himself! Talk about double standards.
You and I are in agreement with a lot of things. I do not disagree with your comments.

DHS should have not been created at all. There are much better ways to protect the country. But money and politics rules these days, and the common person (or the 99%) are totally ignored.

Back to the original topic:
All I'm saying is the TSA is a very convient target these days. There has to be better leadership from the agency. No one wants to improve this agency, instead of trying to make it better. Especially the politicians. The silly rules they have make no sense. And plus those incidents like "shoebomber" and "underwear bomber" originated in foreign countries on aircraft heading TO the US. (ie: CDG & AMS) People seem to forget that factoid. They didn't originate here.

I want to see a better TSA. A working TSA. A TSA who don't overstep their bounds. Where is the leadership of the TSA? How does Pistole gets his intelligence as to think that cupcakes and Christmas pastry is a viable threat on aircraft? I don't want to go back to the security we had before, where it was parted out to the lowest bidder. Wackenhut was the worst of the worst.

Merry Christmas to you all!!!
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
aviasian
Posts: 1244
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 8:11 am

RE: TSA Deems Cupcake 'security Threat'

Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:05 pm

Soon ... in an effort to comply with liquids and gels guidelines, all passengers will have to be drained of :

1. Urine and all bladder contents
2. All bowel contents
3. All saliva
4. Have their tear duct sealed

In my recent travels, I have found Japanese and Korean security personnel to be very edgy when they detected coins in my hand-carried luggage. I have in the first place emptied my pockets of coins and threw these in my hand-carried bag, only to have to dig them out one by one to calm these security people.

Wonder what the next suspicious item ... I dare not imagine. There might just be the day when the security queue will look like a food line in a nudist camp as all passengers have to be cleared through security stark naked.

KC Sim