MAH4546
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KLM Keeps Miami

Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:31 am

Looks like KLM is not ending service to MIA, rather just suspending the MIAAMS route for the summer months.

Miami service will resume October 28 2012. The planned frequency increase to 5 weekly will happen, but the equipment now shows the MD11 continues rather than A330 service.

Extremely slight retiming. Schedule as loaded in GDS:

KL 627 AMS 1520-1935 MIA xTuSa M11
KL 628 MIA 2135-1210 AMS xTuSa M11

[Edited 2011-12-28 00:58:39]
a.
 
tripple7
Posts: 510
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RE: KLM Keeps Miami

Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:47 am

Maybe it would be better to change the title to the topic into: KLM to change Miami into winter seasonal service....
 
UAL747
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RE: KLM Keeps Miami

Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:30 am

Well, considering the old thread was about KLM axing MIA, I think the thread title is appropriate.

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
captainmeeerkat
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RE: KLM Keeps Miami

Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:39 pm

KLM - Keep, Leave, Maybe...
my luggage is better travelled than me!
 
FSDan
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RE: KLM Keeps Miami

Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:20 pm

This makes sense to me as a Winter seasonal route. I'm sure there is much more demand to Miami from Northern Europe in the Winter...
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: KLM Keeps Miami

Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:28 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Thread starter):
Looks like KLM is not ending service to MIA, rather just suspending the MIAAMS route for the summer months.

This is all but a done deal. The future of the Dallas and Miami routes at KLM hangs very much in the balance and at this point I believe the chance that both routes will be eliminated is definitely greater than the chance that they will stay. And that is even before a round of network cuts will likely become inevitable given the expected financial performance of the combined AF-KL.
 
MH017
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RE: KLM Keeps Miami

Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:00 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 5):
This is all but a done deal. The future of the Dallas and Miami routes at KLM hangs very much in the balance and at this point I believe the chance that both routes will be eliminated is definitely greater than the chance that they will stay. And that is even before a round of network cuts will likely become inevitable given the expected financial performance of the combined AF-KL.

  

Since the reservations-system has not been updated as yet (per 28oct12), it looks like KLM will re-start to MIA, however, in the internal aircraft/crew system, KL0627/8 does not show there anymore...
don't throw away tomorrow !
 
A388
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RE: KLM Keeps Miami

Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:40 pm

With the 2011 losses this year and more losses expected for 2012 by the AF/KL Group it wouldn't surprise me MIA will be axed by KL anyway. I can see the weaker routes being stopped entirely in an attempt to reduce losses. It all depends on the economic environment projected for next year, fuel prices, demand etc. Remember we are still a year away from the next winter season. Any schedule changes can still be made now or later.

A388
 
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shamrock604
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RE: KLM Keeps Miami

Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:44 pm

The AFKL losses I think are being overplayed. It is AF who need to address their cost base, not KL.

If anything, KL provides the example that the remainder of the group needs to follow!
 
MAH4546
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RE: KLM Keeps Miami

Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:13 pm

Quoting MH017 (Reply 7):
Since the reservations-system has not been updated as yet (per 28oct12), it looks like KLM will re-start to MIA, however, in the internal aircraft/crew system, KL0627/8 does not show there anymore...

It was added back Monday. It had been fully removed last week, including past 28 October. KLM entered its initial W12/13 schedule this Monday, and MIA is in it. It has also switched to an MD11 and has new times, which shows that it's not just something leftover.

I don't think it's a certainty MIA will resume given the economic climate, but all signs are its a summer suspension as of now. As the newest U.S. destination, and therefore the less mature and established, it's an obvious candidate to cut when capacity cuts are needed. On the otherhand, with about one out of every nine Europeans flying to the United States having MIA as their final destination, it's a pretty gaping hole not to serve from such a huge European hub operation.

[Edited 2011-12-28 12:20:23]
a.
 
A388
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RE: KLM Keeps Miami

Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:34 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 9):
On the otherhand, with about one out of every nine Europeans flying to the United States having MIA as their final destination, it's a pretty gaping hole not to serve from such a huge European hub operation.

That gaping hole shouldn't be that big as there are already plenty of ways through other (major) European hubs to get to MIA. KL might even be too late to serve this market now.

A388
 
MH017
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RE: KLM Keeps Miami

Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:03 pm

Mah4546,

If it does not show up in the aircraft-planning and crew system for Winter 2012-13, how can you operate these flights ?

What is your source it was re-instated last monday (26dec/boxingday) ?
don't throw away tomorrow !
 
rjm777ual
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:32 pm

RE: KLM Keeps Miami

Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:06 pm

Good news! This is good, i love seeing KLM at MIA. Are they changing planes at all? I believe they do their AMS-MIA with the A332.
Greetings from Dulles!
 
panamair
Posts: 3759
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: KLM Keeps Miami

Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:31 pm

Quoting MH017 (Reply 11):
If it does not show up in the aircraft-planning and crew system for Winter 2012-13, how can you operate these flights ?

What is your source it was re-instated last monday (26dec/boxingday) ?

It's bookable in various GDS right now (including on klm.com) - inventory is available and not zeroed out. As MAH said, it was previously completely removed (even for winter 2012-13).

Quoting rjm777ual (Reply 12):
Are they changing planes at all? I believe they do their AMS-MIA with the A332.

No, MD11.
 
ghifty
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RE: KLM Keeps Miami

Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:53 pm

Did KLM publish a press release saying they'd drop the route?

Quoting panamair (Reply 13):
No, MD11.

MD-11?! Well, I better book a flight then!
Fly Delta Jets
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: KLM Keeps Miami

Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:41 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 9):
It was added back Monday. It had been fully removed last week, including past 28 October. KLM entered its initial W12/13 schedule this Monday, and MIA is in it. It has also switched to an MD11 and has new times, which shows that it's not just something leftover.

What you are seeing in the GDS right now are the remnants of KLM's long term planning for the route. AMS MIA was originally planned to go 5 weekly during the summer together with an aircraft change to A332 and then revert to MD11 for the winter with the same reinforced frequency. As for now, the airline does not plan to reinstate nonstop MIA flights for the winter and the loadings in the GDS are mere placeholders that will be subject to plenty of change.

Quoting panamair (Reply 13):
It's bookable in various GDS right now (including on klm.com) - inventory is available and not zeroed out.

So is the nonstop AMS MNL for next summer, and that is a mere 3 months away, while everyone at KLM is aware of the fact that that nonstop flight will not be operated either.
 
MH017
Posts: 1473
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:17 am

RE: KLM Keeps Miami

Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:07 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 15):
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 9):
It was added back Monday. It had been fully removed last week, including past 28 October. KLM entered its initial W12/13 schedule this Monday, and MIA is in it. It has also switched to an MD11 and has new times, which shows that it's not just something leftover.

What you are seeing in the GDS right now are the remnants of KLM's long term planning for the route. AMS MIA was originally planned to go 5 weekly during the summer together with an aircraft change to A332 and then revert to MD11 for the winter with the same reinforced frequency. As for now, the airline does not plan to reinstate nonstop MIA flights for the winter and the loadings in the GDS are mere placeholders that will be subject to plenty of change.

Quoting panamair (Reply 13):
It's bookable in various GDS right now (including on klm.com) - inventory is available and not zeroed out.

So is the nonstop AMS MNL for next summer, and that is a mere 3 months away, while everyone at KLM is aware of the fact that that nonstop flight will not be operated either.

  

In other words, guys & gals: do NOT trust the GDS's for long-term schedules, availability and aircraft-types !!!
don't throw away tomorrow !
 
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:45 am

RE: KLM Keeps Miami

Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:19 am

@HB-IWC:

Have you heard about AF's possible withdrawal in FNA & ROB ?

Why is LAD taking so long to appear on KL's map ? Wasn't the slot secured ?

Thx, ...
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
Ferminios
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:01 pm

RE: KLM Keeps Miami

Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:09 am

Good for MIA if it continues, I was a bit surprised to see this thread though. I think we will know more as the season nears. KLM had confirmed that they would 'cut' MIA, to me that's an unlikely word to use if you're only discontinuing it for the summer.

LAD is pushed back to the start of the summer season. I was told that it had something to do with the authorities, which is, considering Angola's restrictive environment, a very likely reason.  
 
A388
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Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: KLM Keeps Miami

Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:28 pm

Quoting MH017 (Reply 16):
In other words, guys & gals: do NOT trust the GDS's for long-term schedules, availability and aircraft-types !!!

This is exactly what I mean as well. We are (or should I say were) talking about the schedule for the winter season of next year which still is a year away from now!!! Anything can still happen over that timeframe. It is strange that KL says that MIA will be cut while at the same time the route to be supposedly reinstated again in the winter. Very strange but let's see what will happen eventually...

A388
 
civilav
Posts: 293
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 8:51 am

RE: KLM Keeps Miami

Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:29 pm

Quoting captainmeeerkat (Reply 3):
KLM - Keep, Leave, Maybe...

Thank you for such wonderful sense of humour. I laughed quite a bit with this !
 
NASCARAirforce
Posts: 2452
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:27 am

RE: KLM Keeps Miami

Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:42 am

Quoting rjm777ual (Reply 12):
Good news! This is good, i love seeing KLM at MIA. Are they changing planes at all? I believe they do their AMS-MIA with the A332.

Its been the MD-11, rather see it anyway since its pretty much the only pax MD-11 that flies into MIA other than a World charter here or there - all the other MD-11s are freighters. MIA sees its share of A330s - Air Berlin, Alitalia, Avianca, Lufthansa, Swiss, Corsair to name a few

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