catiii
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KLM Engine Scrape @ JFK 12/27?

Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:52 pm

Supposedly a KLM 744 landing at JFK last night scraped an engine on touchdown, cancelling the outbound flight. It was incredibly windy and rainy here in the NYC area last night (and still is today), but does anyone have any photos or additional details?
 
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BasilFawlty
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RE: KLM Engine Scrape @ JFK 12/27?

Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:02 pm

Quoting catiii (Thread starter):
cancelling the outbound flight.

The flight was not cancelled. Aircraft involved was PH-BFT, now running 16,5 hours late on her way back to AMS.
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
 
B6JFKH81
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RE: KLM Engine Scrape @ JFK 12/27?

Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:32 pm

When I left JFK last night, I was on the Belt Parkway heading back east to go home and planes were coming in on 22L. I could not believe the crab angles they were coming in with....it was like they were lined up for a completely different airport LOL! I am not surprised that there was a landing incident last night. There were diversions and cancellations because of the weather last night as well   

[Edited 2011-12-28 14:33:10]
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idlewild
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RE: KLM Engine Scrape @ JFK 12/27?

Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:21 pm

Did the engine scrape the runway or an object? Aren't the engines mounted in such a way that no matter what the angle of the aircraft it's almost impossible for an engine to scrape the runway (but certainly not high stationary object like fences, etc.)? Adding to that, the aircraft was in landing configuration and the wing flex was up. Maybe a wing scraped the runway when a gust of wind might have forced the A/C into a bank? Again, I don't mean to sound ignorant, I just don't see how an engine can scrape a runway, unless of course the gear hasn't come down.
 
fpetrutiu
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RE: KLM Engine Scrape @ JFK 12/27?

Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:32 pm

Quoting Idlewild (Reply 3):
ren't the engines mounted in such a way that no matter what the angle of the aircraft it's almost impossible for an engine to scrape the runway (but certainly not high stationary object like fences, etc.)?

look up Kai Tak engine strike on google. It is definitely possible.
 
A388
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RE: KLM Engine Scrape @ JFK 12/27?

Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:38 pm

Quoting Idlewild (Reply 3):
Did the engine scrape the runway or an object? Aren't the engines mounted in such a way that no matter what the angle of the aircraft it's almost impossible for an engine to scrape the runway (but certainly not high stationary object like fences, etc.)? Adding to that, the aircraft was in landing configuration and the wing flex was up. Maybe a wing scraped the runway when a gust of wind might have forced the A/C into a bank? Again, I don't mean to sound ignorant, I just don't see how an engine can scrape a runway, unless of course the gear hasn't come down.

There's your answer:



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Photo © Colin Parker - The HongKong Spotters




So yes, an engine can scrape the runway but if that happens, it is a very bad landing!!! Crosswinds can also influence a landing extremely even though that chance to my knowledge is small unless it happens seconds before touchdown.

And for the record if an aircraft with its four engines mounted below the wing, if the wing scrapes the runway chances are that the outer engine on that wing has scraped the runway before the wing has!!!

A388
 
Archer
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RE: KLM Engine Scrape @ JFK 12/27?

Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:04 pm

On a crosswind landing, you lower the upwind wing and keep the plane pointed down
the runway with the rudder.
On 4 engine jets you have to be careful of the outboard engine.
This is from the owner of a Cherokee but the principle is the same.
 
loggat
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RE: KLM Engine Scrape @ JFK 12/27?

Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:40 pm

Not quite the same on a 747 as a cherokee. This is how you're supposed to do it on a 747...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW0Mv15t2Pg
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JAAlbert
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RE: KLM Engine Scrape @ JFK 12/27?

Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:18 pm

My partner and I flew into EWR the evening of the 27th on Continental. We circled for perhaps 40 minutes in the most turbulent weather I've experienced in a long while. We were blown about all the way to the runway. Definitely an E ticket ride! I can see how an aircraft might have had a strike incident that evening!
 
jcs17
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RE: KLM Engine Scrape @ JFK 12/27?

Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:30 pm

I was supposed to fly into JFK on the evening of the 27th, but the flight was canceled at the last moment, so I hopped on a Shuttle flight to LGA instead. It was probably the most violent landing I can remember, I've been on more turbulent flights in general, but this had to be the worst landing. I didn't think I was nervous during the landing until I got up from my seat at the gate and my legs were shaky.
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DocLightning
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RE: KLM Engine Scrape @ JFK 12/27?

Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:05 am

Quoting Archer (Reply 6):
On a crosswind landing, you lower the upwind wing and keep the plane pointed down
the runway with the rudder.
Quoting loggat (Reply 7):

Not quite the same on a 747 as a cherokee. This is how you're supposed to do it on a 747...

In the video, the pilot kept the upwind wing lowered and you can see the rudder deflection. So how is it not the same?
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loggat
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RE: KLM Engine Scrape @ JFK 12/27?

Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:25 pm

Notice that all main wheels touch at the same time. If anything, the downwind wheels actually touch first. When you do a sideslip landing like on a cherokee, the upwind main wheel will touch first, then the downwind main, then the nose. This BA 747 lands in a crab with perfect timing to kick the rudder out and point the nose down the centerline of the runway. There is no wing low landing in that video.
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BasilFawlty
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RE: KLM Engine Scrape @ JFK 12/27?

Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:21 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRfioQRCunA

One of my favourite 747 crosswind videos.   
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'