doulasc
Topic Author
Posts: 744
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:12 pm

Washington National Airport Before Dulles.

Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:25 am

I realize Dulles International Airport was built because National was unable to extend runways for Boeing 707 and Douglas DC-8 use. Before Dulles was built did National Airport have flights to Europe and non stop flights to the west coast to such cities as LAX and SFO. National Airport is to Washington DC sort of what LaGuardia is to New York City. National saw no jets until the Boeing 727 and 737 came around. Ohare in Chacago was built because Midway ran out of expansion room to accomodate the first jets.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18978
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Washington National Airport Before Dulles.

Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:47 am

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
Before Dulles was built did National Airport have flights to Europe and non stop flights to the west coast to such cities as LAX and SFO.

4-engine jets have never been permitted at DCA. The only longhaul nonstops were in the propeller era to the west coast. Until IAD opened in 1962, longhaul jets used BWI (code then BAL), and even for several years after IAD opened it was very unpopular and many passengers to LAX/SFO etc still preferred BAL.

DCA never had any propeller nonstops to Europe as far as I recall. Most bilaterals in those days didn't even permiit nonstop service to/from Washington.

One of the only 4-engine jets that used DCA was Pan Am's first 707 which had it's official christening by U.S. First Lady Mamie Eisenhower at DCA on October 17, 1958, 9 days before the inaugural scheduled 707 service. It was then ferried to BAL where a group of invited guests and the media etc. boarded for a pre-inaugural trip to BRU.

Photo of that DCA christening ceremony. Pan Am founder and CEO Juan Trippe, left, and First Lady Mamie Eisenhower, right.

http://www.aircargonews.com/FT11/B707PanAmlaunch.jpg
 
WestWing
Posts: 1133
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:01 am

RE: Washington National Airport Before Dulles.

Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:36 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 1):
4-engine jets have never been permitted at DCA.

I know what you mean, but just to nitpick ... here are a couple of small exceptions to that ...   

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bob Holland
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tim Samples

The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
timz
Posts: 6101
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: Washington National Airport Before Dulles.

Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:20 pm

In the 1950s DCA had prop nonstops to SFO, LAX and DEN, along with DAL and HOU. The Electra DAL nonstop lasted for a few months after the perimeter rule started, so presumably the perimeter rule only applied to jets.

DCA never had nonstops to Europe, but far as we can tell from the timetables it did have direct Constellations in 1946-47.
 
JU068
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:23 am

RE: Washington National Airport Before Dulles.

Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:00 pm

Does anyone know which was the first European airline to link Washington DC with Europe?
 
September11
Posts: 3293
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Washington National Airport Before Dulles.

Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:57 pm

this tells me DCA has a rich history....
Airliners.net of the Future
 
timz
Posts: 6101
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: Washington National Airport Before Dulles.

Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:40 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 4):
first European airline to link Washington DC with Europe?

BOAC started Baltimore in 1961 and shifted to IAD in 1963. Far as I can see no European airline had a nonstop out of Washington until the early 1970s-- maybe BA, or maybe Aeroflot to Paris.
 
milesrich
Posts: 1508
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 2:46 am

RE: Washington National Airport Before Dulles.

Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:37 pm

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
I realize Dulles International Airport was built because National was unable to extend runways for Boeing 707 and Douglas DC-8 use. Before Dulles was built did National Airport have flights to Europe and non stop flights to the west coast to such cities as LAX and SFO. National Airport is to Washington DC sort of what LaGuardia is to New York City. National saw no jets until the Boeing 727 and 737 came around. Ohare in Chacago was built because Midway ran out of expansion room to accomodate the first jets.

Jets were prohibited from DCA primarily because of noise. The primary runway at DCA was about 7500' long, over 2,000 feet longer than the runways at LGA at the time. There were weight issues at LGA that DCA did not have to deal with. For example, the airlines didn't schedule DC-7's in and out of LGA until late in their era of service, but DC-7's were a regular visitor to DCA. UA flew DC-7's nonstop from DCA to the West Coast until 1959 or early 1960 when the jets from BAL took over the nonstop routes. NW flew B-377's into DCA as well, but those aircraft could not operate out of LGA.

As far as runway length, the runways were not long enough for nonstop flights to the West coast, with 707's or DC-8's, but they were long enough for flights with those aircraft, and especially the "higher performance" 720's and DC-8's. MKC, for example, had 707 service beginning in 1959 with Continental and then TWA, and was served by 720's from Braniff, Continental, and United, and had runways that were shorter than DCA's with more obstructions on the approaches as well.

The fact that it took over two years after the introduction of the 727 to get DCA to lift it's jet prohibition is illustrative of the fact that the issue was noise, not runway length.
 
DCAYOW
Posts: 542
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:24 am

RE: Washington National Airport Before Dulles.

Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:43 pm

Quoting timz (Reply 6):
BOAC started Baltimore in 1961 and shifted to IAD in 1963. Far as I can see no European airline had a nonstop out of Washington until the early 1970s-- maybe BA, or maybe Aeroflot to Paris.

Fascinating factoid! I know that when BOAC initially served IAD, it did so via PHL on VC-10s. I was doing some research and was looking at old Washington newspapers and found advertisements (I think early 1970s) where BOAC announced they were eliminating the stop in PHL and offering nonstop service to IAD (also on VC-10s).
Retorne ao céu...
 
doulasc
Topic Author
Posts: 744
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:12 pm

RE: Washington National Airport Before Dulles.

Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:20 am

Where did Pan Am operate out of before Dulles Airport was built? There were no flights to Europe from DCA?
 
User avatar
flylku
Posts: 586
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:44 pm

RE: Washington National Airport Before Dulles.

Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:39 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 1):
4-engine jets have never been permitted at DCA.

I'm not sure that is accurate. I am unaware of an explicit regulation that prohibits them but am happy to be enlightened.
...are we there yet?
 
timz
Posts: 6101
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: Washington National Airport Before Dulles.

Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:18 pm

Quoting doulasc (Reply 9):
There were no flights to Europe from DCA?

Direct flights in the 1940s, but never nonstop.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18978
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Washington National Airport Before Dulles.

Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:28 pm

Quoting doulasc (Reply 9):
Where did Pan Am operate out of before Dulles Airport was built? There were no flights to Europe from DCA?

In the late 1940s Pan Am operated Constellations to Europe originating at DCA but they stopped at LGA and then either Gander or Shannon (sometimes both).

In the 1950s Pan Am had no service from Washington or Baltimore. By the time IAD opened in 1962 they had a few flights a week from both IAD and BAL to both LHR and ORY but they all stopped at either JFK or BOS. They also had a 707 a few times a week PHL-BAL-SJU.

Pan Am´s first 707 crash was in December 1963 when a 707 operating a northbound SJU-BAL-PHL flight was struck by lightning and exploded on the short BAL-PHL sector.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19631208-0
 
PITrules
Posts: 2109
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2000 11:27 am

RE: Washington National Airport Before Dulles.

Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:35 pm

Here is a video of Winston Churchill arriving at DCA on a BOAC Stratocruiser in 1954:

http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65...er-Anthony-Eden_BOAC-Stratocruiser

Quoting timz (Reply 6):
BOAC started Baltimore in 1961

Forerunner Imperial Airways started Baltimore service with flying boats in 1937 via Bermuda
FLYi

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 747fan, AC853, adamblang, alberchico, austinairport, Baidu [Spider], bigfoot0503, Bing [Bot], BirdBrain, DDR, ehaase, Ernie707, Exabot [Bot], Guillaume787, IPFreely, ish2dachoppa, justplanesmart, LFW, MKENut, notconcerned, Okcflyer, Phoenix9, reasonable, SelandiaBaru and 343 guests