aio86
Posts: 910
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 12:16 pm

UAL With US Air's Planes

Sun Oct 08, 2000 3:01 am

Hey Everyone,
Do any of you all know if United is going to acquire US Air's jets once they are bought out. I mean, is US Air going to retire their DC-9s and sell of their 330s or is United going to start flying them? Do any of you know if they are going to repaint the entire fleet?
It would be funny to see this...

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Dean Barnes


in these colors...

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © AirNikon



 
D L X
Posts: 11631
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Sun Oct 08, 2000 3:41 am

Yes, UAL will acquire the US jets in the merger. Some (MD80 and DC9) will be retired, some (a few 732s and props) will be siphoned off to DCAir. Many believe (like myself) that the F100 and 330 will stay in the combined fleet, while many others believe the opposite. Truthfully, neither group knows for sure, and any posting you'll see here will be (perhaps educated) speculation.

Also, it may be unclear if the US jets will be repainted. Early after the merger was announced, it was also announced that US would be a subsidiary of UAL. I'm pretty sure that's no longer the case, but I can't find much info on that anymore.
 
ILUV767
Posts: 3035
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 2:21 pm

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Sun Oct 08, 2000 5:16 am

The MD-80, and the DC-9 is gone. The A330 is also going. UAL operates a very large fleet of 767s, and 777s, and having that plane in your would: a) add a lot of extra costs to UAL, b) create a mechanical nightmare, c) could only be used on select routes (atlantic only), and so on.
UAL will give the A330 back to its leasor, because most carriers lease their planes. It makes it so, if there is a hudge problem, the owner has to care for it, not the airline.
 
Ivo
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2000 1:49 am

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Sun Oct 08, 2000 5:22 am

US AIRWAYS is NOT leasing there A330 !!

Ivo
 
ILUV767
Posts: 3035
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 2:21 pm

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Sun Oct 08, 2000 5:29 am

UAL will then sell them to the company that they lease there planes from. The name escapes me currently, but I know that it's in Ireland. After UAL buys a plane from boeing, or airbus, its sold to there leasor, who leases the plane back to UAL. The A330s will not be leased back to UAL, other carriers will jump at the chane to get almost new A330s.
 
Ryefly
Posts: 1324
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2000 7:56 am

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Sun Oct 08, 2000 5:33 am

I don't think the merger will go threw, but everyone seems so interested in seeing the Airbus A330 in United colors. Here is your chance, it would look something like this...

 
Guest

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Sun Oct 08, 2000 5:38 am

Wow... that's pretty good looking. UAL colors look very nice on an A330. RyeFly, could you make my dream come true for a day and do an Air Canada 777?

Pat
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

ILUV767

Sun Oct 08, 2000 6:22 am

I hate to disagree with you but, United is going to keep the A330s if they merge. United has shown some interest in the A330 so thats why they're gonna keep them. I don't know what they're gonna use them for but they're gonna keep them. I'll double check with my next door neighbor who is a United pilot. I'll let you know what he says.

Kind regards,
BA
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Ryefly
Posts: 1324
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2000 7:56 am

AirCanadaSFO...

Sun Oct 08, 2000 6:38 am

Check your email or go to "The preferred Air Canada Livery" thread. A present awaits
 
ILUV767
Posts: 3035
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 2:21 pm

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Sun Oct 08, 2000 6:40 am

United has shown an interest in a lot of things. Does that mean that they would use them? They showed an interest in the MD-11, but never used it.
I doubt that they will sue the A330 because of the additon of another fleet type. You have to train crews, and do all of the complicated stuff. It's much easier to dump 6 planes, then train 24,000 UAL flight attendants, on that plane. The routes that are flown by an A330 will convert to the 777, 767, and possibly a 747.
 
KALB
Posts: 564
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2000 12:33 pm

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Sun Oct 08, 2000 6:47 am

ILUV767, USAIRWAYS has already trained the crews, mechanics, FAs on the the A330, so I don't think its much of an issue unless ALPA or other unions make it one.
 
ILUV767
Posts: 3035
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 2:21 pm

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Sun Oct 08, 2000 7:27 am

Before UAL can operate it, the f/a's must be trained on that plane. ALL UA F/A'S ARE QUALIFIED TO WORK EVERY TYPE OF PLANE OPERATED BY UAL! So before a single A330 can fly under United's ownership, all UAL f/a's must be trained for it.

The addition of the A330 woruld cause more chaos, then it would solve. Think about it, UAL gets all of US Airways flights (big deal), next, passengers millage gets mixed into the United's Millage Plus program. UAL aquires gate space, at CLT, PHL, BOS, DCA, and PIT. The movement of ground operations is going to be tricky. Having six A330s in the fleet would cause a lot of chaos. Its easier to get one of the new 777s, 767s, and 744s that havn't been delivered to fly those trips

United may go for the 764 over the 333, because they already operate the second largest fleet of 767s in the US. You're not adding a brand new fleet type, just a subtype. Its a lot less complicated. Crew training will be easier because both carriers operatres the 767.

I'm so surprised that no-one has mentioned the F100! Its gone if the merger goes through! Maybe not overnight, but soon. It would be going for the same reason as the A330.

The 737-200s from both UAL and US Airways will be retired. Some may go to DC Air. They are expencive to operate, loud, require 3 man cockpits, and to top it off, they are old! These planes will be replaced by the 737 Classics.

The DC-9s/MD-80s are going. They will be replace by A320 aircraft, and some of 737s.

US Airways's 767s will get configured like United's. During that time the 60XX series will fly some of US Airways routes, as well as the -300. Don't expect US Airways' 767s to be around for too long. Less than 10 years, I'm estimating.

The A321 is not needed, it will be traded for more A320 planes.
The order for 400 airbusses placed by US Airways, willbe cancled. Well most of it. UAL will take delivery ofa about 100 of those planes, and cancle the rest. They are not doing a total fleet replacement like US was.

Go U N I T E D
 
imkeww
Posts: 676
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 1:48 am

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Sun Oct 08, 2000 7:45 am

US Air's order was never for 400 planes... those merely include options! US has an order, for as it stands, 150 airbii narrowbodies while UA has 164.

How do you think all of US's aircraft will be replaced? I'm thinking United would be smart to use those options...

Be Smart, U N I T E D
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Sun Oct 08, 2000 7:47 am

United will keep there A330s whether you believe it or not. United may even evenutally order the A330. It would fit perfectly into there fleet. Now lets stop argueing. I don't care if you believe me or not. Do as you wish.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
ILUV767
Posts: 3035
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 2:21 pm

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Sun Oct 08, 2000 7:51 am

BA, I doubt it!
Thats all I'm saying.
 
Ryefly
Posts: 1324
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2000 7:56 am

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Sun Oct 08, 2000 8:06 am

ILUV767- I have to disagree with you on some points. If United was to buy US Airways they would need all the planes they could get. What your saying is they would get rid of the A330, DC-9, MD-80, A321, F-100, and 737-200 plus cancel most of the 400 airbus order. So what would they use to fill those plane that they are getting rid of? United doesn't have enough planes to take on 205 new destinations with just half of US Airways fleet. It would be pointless to take a heavy loss on the A330 and heavy pentalties from Airbus for canceling the order. Only to need more planes to fill the gaps later on. Plus if they were to cancel the order and needed planes a few years later, do you think Airbus would do business with them? Not. That leaves them with Boeing who will have the upper hand. They can charge full price and know they can get it. United will then be left to another 5 year wait to get all the new planes delivered plus mixing up its fleet comonality even more. All because of canceling the Airbus order all ready in progress which would be done with soon. I don't see that happening. The airbus order stands if not increased down the road.
 
aspen1
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 7:43 am

RE: ILUV767

Sun Oct 08, 2000 8:51 am

the 737-200 has a 2 man flight deck. Airlines cant cancel orders without a severe penalty
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

ILUV767

Sun Oct 08, 2000 10:29 am

ILUV767,
I even asked my next door neighbor who flys for United! I'm emailing United and I will wait for there response and post it on the forum!
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
MAC_Veteran
Posts: 702
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 1999 3:03 am

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Sun Oct 08, 2000 12:03 pm

IF ( and that's a BIG IF) this merger goes through (I dont think it will).
I see the following

Fleetwise, UAL keeping:

The USAirways A32X and A330 fleet

Fleetwise, UAL getting rid of:

The F-100 and continuing DC-9 retirement, selling off the MD80 fleet, selling off the 737-200 fleet

Consolidation of the 737-300 and -400 fleet around an expanded United Shuttle to the East Coast (absorbing MetroJet entirely) USAirways Shuttle Becoming 'United's Northeast Shuttle'; operating with A32X for the most part.

The US A330's being used on North Atlantic routes alongside 777s, complimenting each other on routes and markets that are perfectly sized for each aircraft's capacity. I also see a possibility of A330s being used in Asia, especially NRT feeding Asia traffic into NRT connecting onwards to US bound 747-400 flights.

The 767-300s seeing a redeployment to slightly thinner international routes to Europe and South America (maybe even to Asia alongside the A330s?) along with a buttressing of high demand US domestic routes like LAX-JFK and so forth that can really use it

Just some ideas
MAC



 
Guest

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Sun Oct 08, 2000 12:13 pm

The deal's not even going to happen. The pilots are against it and it would create far too much of a monopoly in the northeast. All three Washington area airports would be contrroled by the new United. The DC Air idea is a good one but United could just price-gouge and put them out of business. Besides, if the merger took place, US Airways and United are both currently trying to become mostly airbus fliers. Only at the top where there would be A330's and 777's would there be a problem. But, many of the world's airlines do operate A330/777 fleets already and nothing has happened to them.
 
D L X
Posts: 11631
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Sun Oct 08, 2000 12:22 pm

ILUV767, you continue to ignore the fact that if the merger occurs (which I strongly believe it will not) UA will OWN 10 to 30 333s. I guarantee you that it will be more expensive to get rid of these brand new jets than it would to train UA F/As on the type. (BTW, what is your source that all F/As everywhere in the system need to be trained on all types? I'd like to read the full spec if you have it.)

I also see the F100s staying. UA doesn't have a plane that can do the F100/DC9 routes.

The 321s will stay also. Obviously, there was a need for them, or US wouldn't have ordered them in the first place, right? Remember, except for the UA hub-US hub flying, there is almost no overlap between these airlines.

You need to see past the idea that UA will still look like UA only bigger to fully understand what would happen if the merger went through. It is absolutely ridiculous to think that US = United Shuttle to the folks at UA. They are a very large disjoint airline that will have needs much different from the needs of UA at present.
 
aio86
Posts: 910
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Sun Oct 08, 2000 4:20 pm

I think, now after hearing all of this that United might do well with the 330. Maybe it could be used for Transatlantic services that are currently opperated by the 767 (ie: ORD-Dusseldorf & IAD -Burssels) since the 767 is already used for so many domestic flights it would be easy just to keep them flying those high density domestic routes. Or, did anyone ever think that United might actually want to keep some of US Air's routes that no one (that US Air frequent fliers have mileage, or would want to fly with) do the special route to Europe that US Air serves to CDG & LGW. Maybe the 767s could also be used for Hawaiian Services, you know like the same way the 767s,777s,747s and 757s & DC-10s are already being used for those flights. By the way awesome picture of the United 330 Ryefly!
-Aaron
 
ILUV767
Posts: 3035
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 2:21 pm

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Mon Oct 09, 2000 2:30 am

D L X,
UA dosn't own many planes. They are leased. The a330 will be sold to UAL's leasour, and UA won't fly them. Lets look at the routes where an A330 is operated, They are replaceing the 762s over the Atlantic. UA will operate there 762 until the 763s can be scheduled into these routes. The planes that I say that UAL will get rid of are, the DC-9, MD-80, F-100, A321 and the A330. The DC-9 and MD-80 are both getting retired quickly. The F-100 dosn't fit int o the fleet plane, so I bet it will be gone. It will most likly be replaced by Regonial service, considering that UAL will get US Airways' Express carriers.

The A319/20, will replace UAL's 727s, 732s, and US Airways' DC-9, MD-80.
United will put 735s on the routes that currently use a F-100. UAL will also use US Airways' 737 Classics on trips past the Mississppi. A good 734 line may involve SFO to MCI. Just because we get there planes, dosn't mean we have to use them where they did.

I don't understand everyones obsession with the A330. It sucks compared to the 777, in that you don't have the range, you don't carry the same number of pax, and its just pointless to operate them side by side.

You all must understand that US Airways is doing a complete fleet replacement. United is not. So when you say your going to need 250 airbusses to fly there routes, thats a lot of BS! UAL is going to use the Airbusses on trips where the narrow bodies other than the boeings are used. Thats it.

BA,
thats good for your neighbor. My dad works for United in Managment, I think I know a little, about what is going on. Infact, I was at the maintence base yesterday, and I asked some of the personal that my fater works with, and they all said that what ever dosn't match, fleet wise, is going to go, for the modt part. The only thing that may stay are the F-100s, but I doubt it.

U N I T E D Rising
 
D L X
Posts: 11631
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Mon Oct 09, 2000 2:53 am

The planes that are leased are even harder to get rid of than planes that are owned. Leases have contracts and terms. If you break the contract, you will pay big penalties. The reason is that the leasing company has already found its customer, and finding a new one is not trivial. Again, this is a cost to remove the plane from the fleet. You must realize this.

The F100 doesn't fit into the fleet plan? I didn't know you were a UAL executive. Any fleet plan designed pre-merger is probably out the window now. You think they'll just put the 735s on those routes? Besides the fact that the 735 is not well suited for the routes the F100 is used on, what plane are you going to fly the routes that are currently 735 routes? You don't think those 57 735s are going to fly both those routes and the 40 F100 routes at the same time, do you? There's a good reason why US had decided not to rid themselves of the F100 at this time. There is no other plane to fly the route.


Your bias shows. I am not obsessed with any A330. I would like to know why you're obsessed with the idea that the 330 is inferior to the 777? It certainly isn't the best fit for SOME routes, but you don't need 777ER range on Atlantic runs, nor do you need 777 pax capacity on all Atlantic runs. There are certainly many routes where an A330 makes more sense than the 777, and they can and have been operated side by side. You realize this, right? Air France has.
 
renoair
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:15 am

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Mon Oct 09, 2000 3:03 am

Everybody is talking about aircraft types, but what about the engines of the Airbus fleet? UALs fleet has IAE engines and US Airways has CFM engines!!!
 
HyperMike
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 1999 7:03 am

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Mon Oct 09, 2000 3:22 am

Let me supplement something D L X said. From what I've read, you're not going to see a bigger version of UAL. Take the UAL route map and drop the US route map right on top of it. What routes do you see in common?

PIT-ORD
PIT-IAD
CLT-ORD
CLT-ORD
PHL-DEN
PHL-SFO
PHL-ORD
PHL-SFO
PHL-LAX
BWI-LAX

I'm sure there are overlapping flights on MetroJet vs. UAL mainline out of IAD too, but not too many. If you consider a combined NYC, there are some overlapping flights there, too. Again, not that many.

My point here is that UAL is reaching critical mass at ORD with capacity. One of the reasons that UAL found US so attractive is that they can complement their own route structure with what US already has in place.

I expect to see some more intra-hub routes added or upgraded to a wide-body aircraft. Specifically, DEN-CLT, PIT-DEN, LAX-PIT, and SFO-PIT.

As of today, US has six A330s in service with a seventh being delivered this month. Contractually, US/UA is required to take delivery of all twelve A330s. Will they keep them? Dunno.

I do know this. UAL does operate a seriously impressive number of 757/767/777 aircraft. Add in the 66 757/767 aircraft that US operates, and it looks better. Does that make the A330 an oddball? Yup. However, it becomes less of an oddball if United buys more of them. Would they do that? It wouldn't surprise me if they did. Remember, fleet commonality makes sense to smaller carriers and carriers with relatively few maintenance bases. However, a combined US/UAL has at least seven domestic maintenance facilities (US: PIT (B737s, DC9s, and MD80s), PHL (A330), LAX (757/767), CLT (737/757/767/F100) and UAL: ORD, IAD, SFO, DEN, LAX).

One thing that varies in the operations of US and UAL is their flight attendant dispatching. A UAL FA can be on a different type of aircraft on every leg. However, most US FAs stick to the same type of aircraft for most of their trip. They do switch back and forth between the A319/A320 and the B733 and B734.

US has already told its flight attendants that there would not by any transfers to UAL domiciles for at least two years. Combining existing domiciles would have to come first. That's the NYC, WAS, and PHL bases.

You know, merging the two fleets will be one of the easiest tasks of the merger. Pilot training isn't a big deal. Flight attendant training is a long process, but not really that complicated. Training ramp and baggage crews isn't a problem.

The real problem will be gate and ticketing agents. These poor folks are just now getting used to Sabre. Now, their world is going to change yet again when it goes to Apollo. That brought PIT/PHL/CLT to its knees when US transitioned to Sabre. I think this will be just as bad. Moving to a new CRS is really complicated, and its going to be a logistical nightmare.
 
Guest

RE: UAL With US Air Planes

Mon Oct 09, 2000 5:14 am

This is amazing. For once, I agree with MAC_Veteran.

MAC is spot on in his predictions. I also think the A320 and derivatives are at United to stay. United won't and can't cancel the US order with Airbus. I think that ILUV767's point that United wants the 764 can be turned around and used against him. The introduction of 6 A330s into UAL's fleet may very well make it financially easier for United to just keep them and order more to supplement the fleet, as opposed to liquidating and ordering 764s. AFAIK, there are those 6 330s at US Airways, with more on the way. Once there are at least 10 or 12, they truly do become commercially viable in United's fleet.

In addition, ILUV767 is wrong about leasing. United does not immediately sell all of its aircraft to an Ireland-based leasing company. United actually does keep legal ownership of the majority of its aircraft. Some are sold to a leasor and immediately leased back to United, but definitely not all, not even most.

DC-9s, MD-80s, and B737-200s will leave either immediately for DC Air, or one by one as the A32Xs come in. I think the A321 orders will be converted to A320s and 319s, and more 757s will be on the way sooner or later.

I think the A330s will end up in Asia, feeding traffic into NRT. That also means UAL will have to establish a pilot domicile at NRT.

The A330 looks quite nice in United colors. If the merger goes through, rest assured that we will see the 330 wearing those colors in real life.

Pat
 
Guest

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Mon Oct 09, 2000 5:49 am

The 330's will be traded in for additional 777's.
Hopefully the merger won't go through...for UAL pilots' sakes.
 
aspen1
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 7:43 am

RE: ILUV767

Mon Oct 09, 2000 6:02 am

United's A320/319 and US airways A320/319 are not completely compatible. United opperates IAE engines while US Airways opperates PW engines. Dont you see this as being a maintance problem?

What you don't seem to understand is that United will need as many airplanes as it can get if the merger goes through. United will NEED all of US Airways planes for a few years. United will first get rid of the MD-80 and DC-9. Thats a given. United and US Airways 737's have the same engines. Those planes will be around for a while until a good replacement is found. The A320/319 will have some problems because the engines are not the same. The 767 that US has will have to be converted to united's configuration. The 767 will most likely go eventually because they will be getting old in a few years.

This leads me to my next point. United WILL NEED TO LOOK FOR A REPLACEMENT for the 767-200 within the next 10 years. The 767-400 is not an option. Most likely united will use it's 767-300 on the 767-200 routes in the future. If they do this United will need a replacement for the 767-300.

Temporarily (spelling?) united will need those A330. (by the way dont the A330 use PW engines, just like the ones used on either the 747 or the 767?)

U see united will not just dump US fleet. They will combine the fleet and then get rid of the planes that dont work. How can u say which planes will go when they haven't merged yet? United will have to test the routes first before making a decision.

 
imkeww
Posts: 676
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 1:48 am

Maintenance Faciliies

Mon Oct 09, 2000 6:04 am

Hypermike--
Two large mx bases for UA are OAK (widebodies), and the HUMONGOUS IND facility (handles all narrowbodies) in the shape of a huge "U" building.
 
D L X
Posts: 11631
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Mon Oct 09, 2000 6:43 am

Aspen, you're close, but not quite. UA's 320s are IAE V2500 (PW+RR) and US's 320s are CFM56 (GE+Snecma). This is actually a non-issue because UA's 733s and 735s are powered by nearly identical CFM56s as on the US 320 fleet. In fact, when you look at the numbers, there are more CFMs in the UA fleet than IAEs.

US's 330 fleet is PW4000 powered. These engines are the same family as those that power the UA widebody fleet.
 
ILUV767
Posts: 3035
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 2:21 pm

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Mon Oct 09, 2000 7:01 am

Aspen,
Why isn't the 764 an option?
 
aspen1
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 7:43 am

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Mon Oct 09, 2000 7:24 am

the 767-400 is way to large to replace the 767-200 United 767-200 carry about 170 people while the 767-400 in uniteds configuration would carry about 230. Thats alot of extra seats that need to be filled. United cannot even fill its economy class cabins on its 767-200 that fly lax-jfk and sfo-jfk and the economy class cabin only holds 123 or 125. If united would purchase the 767-400 and add a huge business class of like 50 something seats instead of the 32 on the 767-200 then it would make sense, however then united wouldnt make money on the flight.
 
Guest

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Mon Oct 09, 2000 4:17 pm

"United cannot even fill its economy class cabins on its 767-200 that fly lax-jfk and sfo-jfk and the economy class cabin only holds 123 or 125."

I don't know what your source of info is, but it's common knowledge that SFO-JFK and LAX-JFK are two of the world's most profitable air routes, and probably the two most profitable in the United States. I have flown these two routes on United 767-200s zillions of times and cannot remember a flight that wasn't at least three quarters full.

Pat
 
HyperMike
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 1999 7:03 am

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Mon Oct 09, 2000 8:37 pm

AirCanadaSFO: Don't confuse dense with profitable. Delta, American, United, and TWA all do LAX-JFK, and they do it with impressive frequency.
 
flashmeister
Posts: 2671
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Mon Oct 09, 2000 10:19 pm

So after the merger goes through (which I believe it will), will that be the time that United marketing will unveil the new livery that is supposedly in the works? It would seem to make sense, seeing that there will be a lot of painting going on...

I'm looking forward to the new livery: the current one is great, but I really like what they're doing with the silhouetted "U".
 
aspen1
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 7:43 am

RE: Aircanadasfo

Tue Oct 10, 2000 3:21 am

Have u noticed that the first class and business class cabins on those routes are full, yet in most cases the economy class cabin is half full. United still makes money on this because they are making money off of cargo, and off of the passengers in first and business making the route profitable.
 
northstardc4m
Posts: 2724
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 11:23 am

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Tue Oct 10, 2000 5:14 am

My opinoins on the entire US/UA merger:

1) fleet: DC-9 gone ASAP
MD-80 gone ASAP
A330... good question... but a lot of the troubles people have been poiting out are irrelevant. One BIG one that is is that UA already has pilots 1 week away from being A330 pilots, they fly A320s....
F100, stay for a while, dump some 737-200s donw to F100s
737-200s gone within 4/5 years
727-200s ditto
Rest is staying...

2) Metrojet/United Shuttle
dont ask me why, but i think DOJ or ICC is gonna push for them to be either spun off or sold off...

3) Shuttle Inc (AKA USAirways Shuttle) re-equip with A321s

4) Routes... compliment.... not like AA/NW would have been... the only real overlapping hubs are PHL/IAD and comeon theres is more than enough compitition there. PIT a little for IAD but not much.. none of the others are really close together....

just my views....
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
Gregg
Posts: 313
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2000 12:49 pm

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Tue Oct 10, 2000 5:48 am

Using the A330s as feeders into NRT is interesting. Maintenance could be done by Singapore Air.

I'd bet they will trade them to Boeing for 777 just like Singapore Air did for their A340s.

Talking to a USairways FA on an A330 from Frankfurt 2 weeks ago, she said the FA hated the A330, and that it was causing problems with the FAs. Also, does USairways A330 have crew rest areas? Why do the pilots always rest in the back of the bus cabin?
 
ILUV767
Posts: 3035
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 2:21 pm

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Tue Oct 10, 2000 8:07 am

Gregg,
good points!

What is UAL could has Singapore or ANA operate the A330 in UAL's colors? Similar to the Express carriers.
It could be United, operated by Singapore Airlines, with their crews, their maintence done, and so on.

NorthStarDC4M,
great ponts!
You've summed up most of what I've been trying to say
 
flashmeister
Posts: 2671
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Tue Oct 10, 2000 10:44 am

UA will probably lease the 330s to some other Star partner. They can't sell them without taking a HUGE loss on them...

There is, however, an outside chance that they'll operate the type until the cost of selling is reasonable compared to the cost of another fleet type. The only way we'd see this though is if they continue to accept delivery of the other A330s that US ordered.
 
D L X
Posts: 11631
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Tue Oct 10, 2000 1:05 pm

There is a small problem with trading in Airbus jets to Boeing. First off, why would Boeing want US's 330s? So, they can have the joy of selling Airbus products?

With the SQ trade in, the idea behind the move was to gain 777 market share. UA is already a major 777 customer. (The largest, still?) So, there's nothing that Boeing would gain from this, imo.


Also the leasing of 330s to another star partner probably wouldn't work out. AC uses RR engines; Thai's fleet is way too small although the engines match. I don't know about the others. Any comments?


BTW, ILUV767, NorthStar was disagreeing with you.
 
ILUV767
Posts: 3035
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 2:21 pm

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Tue Oct 10, 2000 1:38 pm

He is making good points about the fleet.
What's staying what's not. The A330 is still very questionable.

 
aio86
Posts: 910
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Wed Oct 11, 2000 11:32 am

Wow! I feel so smart for having started such a lively post. Well my life is complete, well sort of. Thanks for all the replies, I learned a lot!
-Aaron, LAX
 
aio86
Posts: 910
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Wed Oct 11, 2000 11:32 am

Wow! I feel so smart for having started such a lively post. Well my life is complete, well sort of. Thanks for all the replies, I learned a lot!
-Aaron, LAX
 
Gregg
Posts: 313
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2000 12:49 pm

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Wed Oct 11, 2000 1:00 pm

DLX

I respect your opinion on Boeing not wanting the US 330s, but... If it would keep the (new) US/UAL wide body fleet in Boeings, and it would allow Boeing to control who got the A330s (Control= sale or lease to an airline that will not purchase B777 or B767...) sounds like a money making proposition for Boeing (more sales, while decreasing Airbus sales), and for a new bigger UAL easy disposition of the A330s.

Gregg
 
D L X
Posts: 11631
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: UAL With US Air's Planes

Wed Oct 11, 2000 4:46 pm

Well, it would also really tick off Airbus if UA did this. (Didn't Airbus revoke the warranty of the SQ 340s after their trade in?) UA does have a large contract with Airbus. After a merger with US, their contract will be immense. I don't think it is in UA's best interest to tick off a huge supplier.