Sandgroper
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BA To Introduce Fuel Saving Paint On 777

Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:16 am

BA after successful trials on the A318 will introduce new fuel saving paint coatings to 777-200, wonder if this will reflect in cheaper fares?

http://www.watoday.com.au/travel/tra...s-to-save-fuel-20111230-1pf1y.html

[Edited 2011-12-30 01:18:22]
Sandgroper
 
DLPMMM
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RE: BA To Introduce Fuel Saving Paint On 777

Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:24 pm

Why would BA lower fares because if it ?

Prices are determined more by what the market will bear than by cost. In addition, the cost savings from this new paint will be minimal on a CASM basis.

This article and program is more of an Eco friendly puff piece.
 
flipdewaf
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RE: BA To Introduce Fuel Saving Paint On 777

Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:32 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):
This article and program is more of an Eco friendly puff piece

The article is in no way an "eco friendly puff piece" the reason stated for doing it is rising fuel prices, nowhere does it even mention environmental benefits.

I think maybe you read a different article.

Quoting Sandgroper (Thread starter):

wonder if it's anything like the paint on the 787 nacelles?

Fred
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Sandgroper
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RE: BA To Introduce Fuel Saving Paint On 777

Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:59 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):
Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):
This article and program is more of an Eco friendly puff piece.

Yeah just like winglets
Sandgroper
 
vv701
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RE: BA To Introduce Fuel Saving Paint On 777

Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:03 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):
This article and program is more of an Eco friendly puff piece.

There is no BA Press Release on this subject on the BA web site.

There is no TripleO Press Release this subject on the TripleO web site. But there are Press Releases there dating back almost a year that talk of U2 being the first airline to trial the TripleO nanotech coating:

http://tripleops.com/media.php

This resulted in quite wide publicity at the time as, for example, here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12428667

If BA have trialed the TripleO nanotech coating on 318s and will now trial it on a 772, rather than making a 'puff piece' of it they seem to be keeping their hats on the whole project. And at this time so too do U2.
 
ajhYXE
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RE: BA To Introduce Fuel Saving Paint On 777

Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:31 pm

I wonder if AA will use something like this as an excuse to start painting their planes.
GO RIDERS!
 
babybus
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RE: BA To Introduce Fuel Saving Paint On 777

Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:16 pm

I remember talking to someone from Easyjet and they told me their airline kept fuel costs down by washing the aircraft regularly.

BA might be changing the paint to bring down fuel costs but I'm sure there are other eco-friendly things they could be doing instead.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
soon7x7
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RE: BA To Introduce Fuel Saving Paint On 777

Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:57 pm

Here is a novel idea for the majors to save fuel w/ paint...hire professionals to paint your birds...do away with the rigid paint lines...the dirt and grease under the paint...use an airgun rather than paint rollers (AA)?!...Sata makes some great guns for this. Boeing has recommended that customers not paint their engine nacelles and cowlings on 787's as paint lines (tape lines) causes a less efficient airflow around engine as engine performance apparently critical where its exterior is concerned. Achieving "fuel saving" paint not that hard...just do a good job.
 
vv701
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RE: BA To Introduce Fuel Saving Paint On 777

Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:03 am

Quoting ajhYXE (Reply 5):
I wonder if AA will use something like this as an excuse to start painting their planes.

I do not think that would be necessary.

The TripleO web site - see first link in Reply 4 - talks of their nanotech coating being applied over the aircraft's paint after cleaning and then 'polarising' the aircraft with oxalic acid before applying their coating.

I can see no reason why bare metal should not be cleaned, polarised and coated in the same way. And it seems to me that most of the saving - estimated by TripleO at between 1 and 2 per cent of total fuel burn - of this procedure might be lost by the increased weight of the paint if AA were to first paint their aircraft.

The U2 assessment of this coating started last February is, according to the TripleO web site, a 12 month assessment involving eight aircraft. So we might hear something more in the coming months.
 
crownvic
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RE: BA To Introduce Fuel Saving Paint On 777

Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:46 am

Since we are talking about BA paint, if they do this, hopefully they will do it faster than the "To Fly, To Serve" shield. Am I correct in assuming that there are still only 2 a/c with this updating? Has this idea been shelved?
 
Paul787
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RE: BA To Introduce Fuel Saving Paint On 777

Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:44 am

Quoting ajhYXE (Reply 5):

That is actually pretty realistic, as they take the delivery of the new Airbus fleet and the 787s as those birds won't be able to carry the existing bare metal livery.
320/321/333/343/388/733/737/738/739/752/763/772/CR9/DH8/ER3/ER4/E75/M82
 
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lightsaber
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RE: BA To Introduce Fuel Saving Paint On 777

Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:03 am

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):
Prices are determined more by what the market will bear than by cost. In addition, the cost savings from this new paint will be minimal on a CASM basis.

   100 thousand pounds is not a meaningful savings from the passenger perspective. If there is a benefit, it will be to allow more payload (cargo) and thus more revenue.

I'm skeptical of a 1% fuel burn reduction due to paint... It might be more economical in other ways and thus worth it though...

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
rj777
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RE: BA To Introduce Fuel Saving Paint On 777

Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:26 am

Are there any pics of the new paint with the crest?
 
Geezer
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RE: BA To Introduce Fuel Saving Paint On 777

Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:53 pm

[quote=soon7x7,reply=7]Here is a novel idea for the majors to save fuel w/ paint...hire professionals to paint your birds...do away with the rigid paint lines...the dirt and grease under the paint...use an airgun rather than paint rollers (AA)?!...Sata makes some great guns for this. Boeing has recommended that customers not paint their engine nacelles and cowlings on 787's as paint lines (tape lines) causes a less efficient airflow around engine as engine performance apparently critical where its exterior is concerned. Achieving "fuel saving" paint not that hard...just do a good job.


IMHO, the above is probably the most sensible reply so far; Yes, this is the first I have heard of this idea; does it work?
I have no idea; (I hope it does) I will attempt to learn a little more about it before I develop a negative opinion about it.
I'm sure everyone who spends much time on this website realizes that all airplanes are "about" aerodynamics; I'm further assuming that this new paint must offer some aerodynamic benefit, however small it may be.

I don't suppose you could save much money on fuel if you painted your car with this new paint; but if you had hundreds of cars, all logging thousands of miles every day, and all these miles were at high sub-sonic speeds, and all burning today's frightfully expensive fuel, I'm sure even a savings of one tenth of one per cent would be very welcome, indeed.


[quote=Sandgroper,reply=3]Yeah just like winglets !

I take it from this that you tend to be "skeptical" of the value of winglets; I'm not an engineer, but I do know a few; I had a conversation with a "fairly well known" fellow at Oshkosh a few years back, and winglets came up; he assured me that
in many cases, winglets DEFINITELY help. ( The fellow's name was Burt Rutan btw )

Charley
Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein

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