airbazar
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BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:25 pm

 
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airportugal310
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:33 pm

Good news indeed.

"The Hassle Factor", as the TF Green Director puts it, is really overblown by some. Ever since they completed the tunnels, its been easy as ever to get to the airport. I commuted there 5-6 days a week for 4 years into the Central garage. It's an old argument now. Traffic is not really that bad either...unless you don't like to share the road with a few more cars than you'll find in the suburbs  

Good to see Southwest is doing well...not surprised.

Out of curiosity, how much %-wise does international traffic contribute to Logan's total traffic?
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modernArt
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:39 pm

Boston needs a nonstop to San Antonio (via Jet Blue)
 
RL757PVD
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:14 pm

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 1):
"The Hassle Factor", as the TF Green Director puts it, is really overblown by some. Ever since they completed the tunnels, its been easy as ever to get to the airport. I commuted there 5-6 days a week for 4 years into the Central garage. It's an old argument now. Traffic is not really that bad either...unless you don't like to share the road with a few more cars than you'll find in the suburbs  

The "Hassle Factor" I found doesnt have to do with Logan at all (at least from personal experiences) When I moved to ATL I had to switch from PVD to BOS due to extreme fare differences (before Delta had fare parity in the markets) The tunnel is quick and easy and Terminal A is great, and rental cars is easy...BUT after getting stuck in traffic repeatedly on 93 South (All hours of the day, 11pm, thanksgiving day, you name it) I started paying the premium to use PVD again...that was helped by the fact that Delta pegged PVD-ATL to be something to the equivalent of BOS-ATL + $50-75. On a summer afternoon I once returned a rental car, checked in , cleared security and was at my gate in just over 10 min at PVD.
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airportugal310
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:23 pm

Quoting rl757pvd (Reply 3):
On a summer afternoon I once returned a rental car, checked in , cleared security and was at my gate in just over 10 min at PVD.

Fair enough. There is always something to be said for the convenience factor of using a less 'complicated' airport

Heck, my boss (President of the company no less) uses PVD almost exclusively when he comes to town. The reason I tell you this...our office is only 10mi from BOS!
For his travel needs, PVD is usually a cheaper option and he can make up the difference by renting a car for cheaper too.
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BOStonsox
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:28 pm

Despite growing up midway between BOS and PVD, I've only used PVD once. Part of that is that I've only flown domestic three times and twice I was with a group, but BOS isn't the hassle it used to be especially with the Silver Line. It used to be Back Bay-Orange Line-Blue Line-Shuttle Bus, and who would do that?

B6 will continue to grow and have all of Terminal C next year. I wonder if they are the carrier Massport is looking at for MEX service mentioned in the article? SN must be the one they are looking at hopefully going to BRU, and Hainan might finally start service to China with the 787. Let's hope 2012 is just as good for BOS as 2011 was, if not better!
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:45 pm

MHT is more convenient to me (especially since the bridge from Rt 3 across the Merrimack opened) but am finding myself at BOS fairly often since Jet Blue has a lot of useful non-stops from BOS, and using the shuttle from the park and ride is cheaper than parking at BOS or MHT when I'm staying more than a few days.
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JayinKitsap
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:29 pm

Alaska has great non-stops to SEA and PDX from BOS. Hardly anyone else has nonstops between those pairs.
 
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:45 pm

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 5):
It used to be Back Bay-Orange Line-Blue Line-Shuttle Bus, and who would do that?

Me. Even now, sometimes.

Given how slowly the silver line goes, and how long it can take for the tourists to figure out how to pay their fare on it, orange/red/green to blue to the bus can sometimes still be faster than the silver line, at a time of day where you don't have to wait for the connections. of course, if you have luggage that's a pain.
 
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:50 am

If AA comes back to PVD, I'm there, until then, it's BOS for me.
 
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:51 am

MHT and PVD feasted off the misery of getting to and from Logan, and they built & spent accordingly. MHT has a fair-sized debt load but the funding stream to pay off the debt service is a whole lot less now than before: fewer cars in the garages & lots; fewer people buying meals at the restaurants; less revenue from landing fees.

Topping it off (in my view) is apathetic management at MHT. They promote their successes such as a 'new' nonstop to Denver when it really was just the redirection of a previous PHX flight. They pitch 'good news' to an unsuspecting public who wouldn't know a 757 from a Colt-45. But because these people feast on public dollars, they have no incentive to help the airport grow.
 
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:55 am

I live about equi-distant between the two. When you are not fighting traffic the commute to Logan is pretty easy, it's a straight shot. But if you live outside the 128 belt, and you are dealing with the commute hour traffic it's a real bear - traffic the whole way, you have three tolls at a minimum you have to go through, so it can double your commute time and seriously increase the stress level. Unfortunately the commute through Providence is not easy, either. You can always take 295, but that takes longer and is a little more difficult to find your way.

In a nutshell, TF Green is cheaper for parking and easier to get through, but last minute flights out of there are more expensive. Add to that fewer flights and smaller planes, and that discourages flyers. I think the real increase for Logan, though is the the increase in JetBlue and Southwest. If JetBlue were to start service to TF Green, I think you would see a serious shift in traffic southward.
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:26 am

I called up this thread thinking you meant the airline; British Airways Open Skies. I was just watching one of them (BOS 001 ORY-EWR) flying over me and wondering how well they were doing.
 
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:29 pm

Quoting JayinKitsap (Reply 7):
Alaska has great non-stops to SEA and PDX from BOS. Hardly anyone else has nonstops between those pairs.

Jet Blue also does BOS-SEA. It's interesting to see that two LCCs can support such long-thin nonstops ex BOS.

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 10):
Topping it off (in my view) is apathetic management at MHT. They promote their successes such as a 'new' nonstop to Denver when it really was just the redirection of a previous PHX flight.

I appreciate your input and have no actual insight as to MHT management, but heck, this kind of move is a natural for management everywhere. There always going to accenuate the postive, even if it takes bending the truth. It is a new flight as in one that didn't exist before, but of course they won't mention the loss of the PHX nonstop because that's not good news.

It's more irksome to have gone with the "Manchester-Boston Airport" renaming. That speaks to a huge degree of despiration, IMHO, and probably hasn't brought in a single new pax, and if it has, it's probably pissed off 10x more pax when they get to MHT and find no decent options to actually get to Boston.

MHT had been the beneficiary of year after year of good economies, but as soon as things went south with the economy, MHT followed shortly thereafter. Most of the people I've met on flights ex-MHT are leisure travellers and in a bad economy things such as vacations get cut back really quickly. As a user of MHT and a NH taxpayer (lol) I support the funding that's gone into MHT anyway. I hope things will get better at MHT as the economy improves, but the cutbacks of the legacies at BOS have made room for LCCs to flurish there, and that will be tough to handle even when the economy improves.
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cloudboy
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:52 pm

Manchester is just too much of a bear to get to. Logically it shouldn't be that bad - they are just as close, if not closer, to a lot of the companies located in the north 495 belt. But getting up Rt. 3 is a hassle. Add to that that there is nice and easy public transportation from the 495 belt to Boston and on to Logan, and that tips the scale. MHT did alright when the economy was growing and there was some surge in Southern New Hampshire, but that has dried up quite a bit as NH sought to promote larger industry based businesses over knowledge based start-ups.

This is an example where a good relatively high speed express route, done right, would help the airline business. If they did an hourly service between the two, with limited stops (128 belt, 495/Lowell, Nashua, MHT, Downtown Manchester) that also ran on weekends, it would make MHT a whole lot more attractive. But the MBTA contracts with the operators prevents that, and New Hampshire is so anti-public transport, it wont happen.
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:42 pm

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 14):
Manchester is just too much of a bear to get to.

I don't see this to be that much of an issue for locals. Visitors who don't plan to rent a car or don't have a local to meet them are screwed, though.

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 14):
But getting up Rt. 3 is a hassle.

Why? It's 3 lanes wide from 128 to past Nashua, and most MHT users from the south will be driving in the opposite direction during the morning/evening rush hours, and off-peak the road is pretty much wide open.

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 14):
Add to that that there is nice and easy public transportation from the 495 belt to Boston and on to Logan, and that tips the scale.

I'd substitute "usable" for "nice and easy", but yeah, MHT will never get the benefit of mass transport that BOS gets.

And the issue with BOS and mass transport is that if you are travelling during rush hours you are travelling with the rush hour traffic, so the bus suffers from jammed highways and trains are packed too.

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 14):
MHT did alright when the economy was growing and there was some surge in Southern New Hampshire, but that has dried up quite a bit as NH sought to promote larger industry based businesses over knowledge based start-ups.

Geez, I didn't know NH had any strategies at all!

I've been working in high teck in the area for 20+ years and there's no evidence of one that I can see.

One would think NH's lack of income tax would make it attractive, but from what I've seen working on both sides of the NH border, most people from MA think NH is nothing but cow pastures and they hugely resist leaving the 128 belt never mind the 495 belt.

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 14):
This is an example where a good relatively high speed express route, done right, would help the airline business. If they did an hourly service between the two, with limited stops (128 belt, 495/Lowell, Nashua, MHT, Downtown Manchester) that also ran on weekends, it would make MHT a whole lot more attractive.

I can just imagine how costly that would be and thus how many pax it'd need to use it to make it viable. I can't see it happeneing.

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 14):
But the MBTA contracts with the operators prevents that, and New Hampshire is so anti-public transport, it wont happen.

Yep, I don't get it. A few years ago there was talk of opening up rail service from Nashua to Lowell and beyond, and NH refused to even fund the necessary studies. What's up with that?
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:48 pm

I live closer to Logan and normally haven't had a problem getting to it--it also helps that it is much larger that PVD and offers flights to a greater range of destinations both domestic and international. However, when I did live in Providence I found PVD to be incredibly smooth to pass through, much moreso that Logan. It's great that people living in the MA/RI area have to excellent airports to choose from.

I also know that the T (MBTA Commuter Rail) extended their Providence line this past year to add a stop at TF Green--has anyone taken that line, and regardless, does anyone know yet its impact on PVD customer traffic? Given that, as others have said, there's no real easy public transportation method to get to Logan, it's nice for people living along 95 (and parts of 128, and even Boston) that don't want to drive to have access to TF Green with the new stop, but I don't know how much traffic it will really divert from Logan, especially since the T only stops at the airport station a few times on weekdays, and not at all on weekends.
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:58 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 15):
most people from MA think NH is nothing but cow pastures and they hugely resist leaving the 128 belt never mind the 495 belt.

Not entirely true...we also think of NH when it comes to the state liquor stores  
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keagkid101
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:15 pm

I live 40 miles south of BOS, and 20 miles northeast of PVD. It takes 25 minutes to get to PVD with light/no traffic. It takes 45 minutes to BOS with NO traffic, and a few times, well over 1.5 hours with traffic. There is no way of knowing if there will be traffic, so I typically stick with PVD. I flew PVD-BWI just last week--arrived at 6:50 for a 7:55pm flight, and I was at the gate by 7:05. Even had time to go to DD before the flight. I find PVD incredibly efficient and smooth, and fares are competitive to BOS.

The only time I've flown through BOS in the past six months was to fly BOS-BWI. WN's out of PVD was well over $150 more expensive, so I chose to make the hike. I was lucky, and there was no traffic to BOS--took only 40 minutes to get there. However, I waited in the check in and TSA lines for over 25 minutes. This is BOS's downfall: the congestion.

It is great that I have the choice of BOS and PVD. I have PVD for the shorthall flights, and BOS for the flights to LAX, SFO, PDL, etc.
 
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:08 pm

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 11):
If JetBlue were to start service to TF Green, I think you would see a serious shift in traffic southward.

B6 can only afford to expand so quickly and for the region I would see them filling out the space they've already leased at BOS due to the higher business O&D traffic potential. And as noted by Revelation:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 6):
but am finding myself at BOS fairly often since Jet Blue has a lot of useful non-stops from BOS, and using the shuttle from the park and ride is cheaper than parking at BOS or MHT when I'm staying more than a few days.

Once an airline has a 'core group' of service from an airport, it is easier/cheaper to launch new services (until the market is saturated, of course). B6 seems to being doing well gaining higher RASM business passengers at BOS. They will do the old business strategy of 'building from strength.'

I'm curious, how many gates does WN have at BOS?

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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:33 pm

Quoting Soxfan (Reply 16):

I also know that the T (MBTA Commuter Rail) extended their Providence line this past year to add a stop at TF Green--has anyone taken that line, and regardless, does anyone know yet its impact on PVD customer traffic? Given that, as others have said, there's no real easy public transportation method to get to Logan, it's nice for people living along 95 (and parts of 128, and even Boston) that don't want to drive to have access to TF Green with the new stop, but I don't know how much traffic it will really divert from Logan, especially since the T only stops at the airport station a few times on weekdays, and not at all on weekends.

Yeah, I used it. The station is wicked convenient, but the train timings suck...
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JayinKitsap
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:34 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 13):
Quoting JayinKitsap (Reply 7):Alaska has great non-stops to SEA and PDX from BOS. Hardly anyone else has nonstops between those pairs.
Jet Blue also does BOS-SEA. It's interesting to see that two LCCs can support such long-thin nonstops ex BOS.

I'm Alaska Gold MVP, do SEA-BOS to go to Groton, CT. Even though I drive by PVD it is far faster to go direct to BOS with the extra drive (besides for the free upgrades to 1st when available). SEA-BOS is almost always full and AS gets to charge $100 to $200 more than those that hub elsewhere. I think JetBlue is doing the same thing, cashing in on being the nonstop flight.
 
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:02 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 15):
Geez, I didn't know NH had any strategies at all!

I've been working in high teck in the area for 20+ years and there's no evidence of one that I can see.

One would think NH's lack of income tax would make it attractive, but from what I've seen working on both sides of the NH border, most people from MA think NH is nothing but cow pastures and they hugely resist leaving the 128 belt never mind the 495 belt.

That should tell you a whole lot right there about NH's government. In some ways, the perception I get is that they still do things the old fashioned way, targeting specific companies and such. They don't even seem to grasp that thre is a whole section of industry that is start up companies. They got all excited over Segway, and either forgot about everyone else, or became so disenchanted that they dont want to think technology anymore.

I know several people who had tried living in NH. The income tax may not be there, but they still have to get their money somehow. Property taxes are, as I understand, something terrible. What gets me is that everyone makes such a big deal over the sales tax, but there is so little for retail in NH compared to Massachusetts. It pretty much flies in the face of the argument of how important low sales taxes are.

There was a rumor a while ago that Massport was pressuring JetBlue to fly out of Worcester since they were running out of space at Logan. Naturally Massport doesn't want to send traffic to PVD or MHT, but at some point I think JetBlue is going to have to. There just isn't that much room for expansion there. If things pick up again, they are going to need to start flying out of other airports if they want to grow any more.
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:25 am

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 22):
Naturally Massport doesn't want to send traffic to PVD or MHT, but at some point I think JetBlue is going to have to. There just isn't that much room for expansion there. If things pick up again, they are going to need to start flying out of other airports if they want to grow any more.

They can grow elsewhere (other region than greater BOS)... There is no pressuring a business to grow where it isn't viable.

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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:22 am

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 17):
Not entirely true...we also think of NH when it comes to the state liquor stores

That's ok. We'll keep the packies, you can keep your state sales and income taxes.

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 22):
The income tax may not be there, but they still have to get their money somehow.

That is an issue.

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 22):
What gets me is that everyone makes such a big deal over the sales tax, but there is so little for retail in NH compared to Massachusetts. It pretty much flies in the face of the argument of how important low sales taxes are.

Huh? Have you driven around Nashua, Salem or Keene very much?

I live in Nashua and you can start at DW Highway, head up Main Street, then drive Amherst Street through to the Milford Oval and see amazing retail saturation.

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 22):
Property taxes are, as I understand, something terrible.

To some degree, but MA house prices are something terrible. The amount I saved between the house in I have in Nashua and one along the 495 belt will easily pay for two decades of property tax, even more if I put in the interest I'd be paying to borrow the extra money for that house in MA. If I tried to live in the 128 belt or further in, it'd be an even larger difference in my favor.

It seems some put a huge premium on living closer to Boston. Maybe they have to to get work? Some say they do it for the kulcha, but if I want that I can get to it easy enough.

What makes even less sense is the prices I've seen on houses out in Worcester and points west of there. I have no idea why people are paying those kinds of prices out there.
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:34 am

Looks like we are in a slug war between living in MA and NH now. Let's keep talking about BOS, PVD and MHT instead. How's the new access road (from Everett Turnpike) working out for MHT ?!!

Getting to and from BOS is now a breeze compared to what it was 10 years ago. Parking is still costly and hard to find ... but the new long term parking garage in BOS is much more improved now. But the most amazing thing that has happened to BOS in this past decade is the rise of B6 here. So many non-stop options with an excellent domestic product - it's almost a no-brainer. However, we have also lost lots of AA flights, Business Express Airlines, etc etc.

Another frustration is the slow growth of International flights. American has removed TATL flights, Sabena folded. Still no flights to Scandinavia or Asia. Rumors about NH and EK starting remain rumors. Let's hope the JL flight actually happens. It'd be awesome to welcome the 787 here in New England before the rest of the country! 
 
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:21 pm

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 1):
Out of curiosity, how much %-wise does international traffic contribute to Logan's total traffic?

That data is available on Massport's web site. International growth has been healthier than domestic. In fact, over the last 10 years, domestic passengers only grew by about .5 million. That's pretty stagnant if you ask me. What we're seeing in BOS in the domestic market is a shift away from legacy carriers towards LCC's.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 5):
It used to be Back Bay-Orange Line-Blue Line-Shuttle Bus, and who would do that?

Lots of people, myself included. I'm sure you still remember the escalator congestion at the old airport station  
And after I moved from Boston to the burbs it used to be Commuter Rail to N.station -> Orange line -> Blue line -> shuttle bus.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 15):
One would think NH's lack of income tax would make it attractive, but from what I've seen working on both sides of the NH border, most people from MA think NH is nothing but cow pastures and they hugely resist leaving the 128 belt never mind the 495 belt.

NH does a very poor job at attracting companies. They have a very parochial approach to job creation. NH's economy is as good as it is thanks to the Massachusetts economy which gives good paying jobs to NH residents. At the same time, NH has a hard time attracting young college graduates. Lets face it, what 22yo graduate would chose NH over Raleigh, NC for example?  
The lack of income tax is not a huge attraction because virtually all other taxes are higher in NH than they are in MA, especially the property taxes which in some towns are just plain ridiculous. Sales taxes are no longer a factor these days since just about anyone can buy online, tax free, and MA doesn't have sales tax for clothing or food anyway. The cost of energy is a huge problem for NH and New England in general to attract businesses that are heavy on energy consumption. Compare NH/MA's $0.13 per Kw/h vs. N.Carolina's $.04 and you can see why NC has been attracting IT companies away from New England.
 
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:21 pm

Yeah, this is purely speculative, but I could see it happening. New England has the benefit that it is closest to Europe, and far enough noth that it can be pretty successfully used by 757s transatlantic. If mht can attract a llc that wants to expand into the transatlantic market, it could be a good jumping off point.
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:06 pm

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 27):
If mht can attract a llc that wants to expand into the transatlantic market, it could be a good jumping off point.

MHT would need a lot of work done to handle international arrivals from anywhere other than places with CBP pre-clearance. The airport terminal itself is one level only so you can't keep arriving passengers segregated. MHT also doesn't have CBP facilities. It would need to build one and staff it.
 
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:47 pm

I live between BOS and PVD... about equal distance and time to either one. I am a DL frequent flier, and several years ago, I used PVD DL flights quite a lot. DL had many 757s as well as MD88s on their PVD schedule in the early 2000s. They had at least 4 mainline flights daily to ATL, two to CVG and the odd DL Express flights (737-200) to MCO and FLL.

I haven't flown out of PVD for years. The DL scheduleat PVD is a shell of what it once was, lots of CRJs. BOS has a great terminal with a Sky Club.
 
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:28 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 26):
The lack of income tax is not a huge attraction because virtually all other taxes are higher in NH than they are in MA, especially the property taxes which in some towns are just plain ridiculous. Sales taxes are no longer a factor these days since just about anyone can buy online, tax free, and MA doesn't have sales tax for clothing or food anyway.

Or you can just drive up to NH and buy it tax-free!  

Try registering a car in MA if you haven't paid the sales tax...

Quoting airbazar (Reply 26):
The cost of energy is a huge problem for NH and New England in general to attract businesses that are heavy on energy consumption. Compare NH/MA's $0.13 per Kw/h vs. N.Carolina's $.04 and you can see why NC has been attracting IT companies away from New England.

NH is still being impacted by the Seabrook debacle..

As someone in the MWRA area about their water bill....

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chrisnh
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:32 pm

I was thinking that MHT could be to Boston what SFB is to Orlando for some of the European charter carriers. They can easily use 757s to run Manchester-Manchester, for example, and I think for tax-free shopping, skiing, access to upper New England...MHT would make for a good field for less-than-regular service to/from the British Isles. People might laugh when I say 'shopping,' but there are women who fly to Boston from Ireland every fall with empty suitcases. They fill 'em up with purchased goods and even with duties paid, they still make out like bandits. Where do they shop? The Wrentham Outlet Village south of Boston.

Merrimack Premium Outlets...a mere ten minutes from MHT...is under construction now and scheduled to open this summer. It is going to be a carbon copy of the Wrentham outlets.

I do not know when (or whether) MHT will get the necessary infrastructure in place to handle transatlantic flights. It's not necessarily a 'build-it-and-they-will-come' proposition, which is probably why there is a reluctance to do this up here. But I would rather believe what I've always believed: Management at MHT is horribly inept, not at all proactive, and tends to blame every bad thing on 'The Economy.' I don't think there's another airport in New England that has lost more air traffic than MHT...in terms of seats, flights, passengers. BDL might be close, or even worse. But I sure don't see that as something to crow about.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:36 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 31):
I was thinking that MHT could be to Boston what SFB is to Orlando for some of the European charter carriers

If there is demand for a SFB style non-florida leisure UK-US Market you will see if happen in NYC first (SWF?) probably a good decade before you see it in Boston.
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ScottB
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:08 pm

Quoting ASA (Reply 25):
Rumors about NH and EK starting remain rumors.

Speaking of rumors about EK starting: EK has been running advertisements on local TV in Boston recently; does this presage a service announcement?

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 1):
Good to see Southwest is doing well...not surprised.

I think Southwest's numbers for 2012 will decline over 2011, though, what with them dropping PHL-BOS service.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 8):
Given how slowly the silver line goes, and how long it can take for the tourists to figure out how to pay their fare on it, orange/red/green to blue to the bus can sometimes still be faster than the silver line

True, and I suppose the blue line offers the added advantage of fewer red-light-running trucks hitting the bus. And whoever designed the route of the Silver Line from South Station to the airport had to be on crack.
 
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:24 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 33):
I think Southwest's numbers for 2012 will decline over 2011, though, what with them dropping PHL-BOS service.

#s might show as being up for WN but only thanks to the Fl merger, combined the totals will be down, as some Fl services get cut. PHF is a goner, BWI duplicate flying is cut, some Florida and CAK may go as well.

2012 may be down like 12-14 flights for WN and FL over 2011 for the two carriers.
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:24 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 31):
Merrimack Premium Outlets...a mere ten minutes from MHT...is under construction now and scheduled to open this summer. It is going to be a carbon copy of the Wrentham outlets.

I hope it comes with a slightly bigger parking lot and easier in/out access...
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:26 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 24):
What makes even less sense is the prices I've seen on houses out in Worcester and points west of there. I have no idea why people are paying those kinds of prices out there.

Blame that on the infusion of Yuppies moving further west. Thankfully, my brother bought his Sturbridge home in 1997; years before the spike in home prices. Today, he wouldn't be able to afford to purchase a house like his there.

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 10):
MHT and PVD feasted off the misery of getting to and from Logan, and they built & spent accordingly.

With WN contributing along the way. They only turned their sights onto BOS only AFTER seeing B6 set up shop and aggressively expanding there. Isn't BOS kind of a hub (or at least a focus city) of sorts for B6?

That said, since B6 essentially operates more like a hub-and-spoke carrier than a point-to-point carrier a la WN; I don't really see them setting up shop in either MHT or PVD as long as there is room for them to grow at BOS.

Quoting ModernArt (Reply 2):
Boston needs a nonstop to San Antonio (via Jet Blue)

Person choice: Now that WN is killing off ALL of its PHL-New England routes; B6 needs to come to PHL and offer PHL-BOS service. The set-up could be similar to their BWI-BOS service.
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:33 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 36):
I don't really see them setting up shop in either MHT or PVD as long as there is room for them to grow at BOS.

I think you will see them in PVD sooner rather than later with a BDL style Florida operation. No JFK though, as nice as it would be to see that.
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:39 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 30):
Try registering a car in MA if you haven't paid the sales tax...

But how often do you buy a new car? I'm not going to decide where to live because I might buy a car every 7-10 years. Despite what NH politicians want you to believe, lack of sales tax alone is not an attraction for either tourists, new residents, or companies wanting to relocate there. It provides an added value, that's for sure, but no one is traveling to NH just to shop unless you live near the border and NH is the nearest place to shop.

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 31):
I was thinking that MHT could be to Boston what SFB is to Orlando for some of the European charter carriers. They can easily use 757s to run Manchester-Manchester, for example, and I think for tax-free shopping, skiing, access to upper New England...MHT would make for a good field for less-than-regular service to/from the British Isles. People might laugh when I say 'shopping,' but there are women who fly to Boston from Ireland every fall with empty suitcases.

Not even close because while SFB and MCO both serve the same destination, MHT and BOS do not serve the same destination. If you fly into BOS you don't need to rent a car. If you fly into MHT you absolutely need to rent a car and that's money you could be spending somewhere else. NH is not very attractive as a shopping destination either. As I pointed out above, the 5.6% and 8.6% sales tax for MA and NYC respectively on top of already heavily discounted prices are not even a consideration for people coming from Europe who are used to pay 3 times more for the same product. Even for locals, the lack of sales tax is getting less attractive when you're paying $4/Gal to drive all the way up to NH. You'll spend more on fuel than you'll be saving on sales tax. I live in MA, 7 miles from the strip malls or Salem, NH, and I've shopped there exactly once (1 store only), in the last 6 months. If I'm spending $100 I'll save a mere $6.5 in taxes, assuming the price is the same (which hardly ever is). That's not enough to make me brave the Rt.28 traffic madness   But then again I'm a guy, but my wife is no different.

Having said that I think that a 3x or 4x weekly TATL flight would do well because of the local market in NH/VT and not necessarily foreign tourists. Southern NH, and the Darthmouth area have a fairly wealthy population and I suspect that a good number of them would welcome the option of not having to drive to BOS or connect via JFK/EWR/PHL/ATL. But I have a feeling that the cost of building and staffing a CBP facility and international gates would be too much for such slim service. PVD already has the facilities and they can barely maintain year round international service.
 
tharanga
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:32 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 36):
Person choice: Now that WN is killing off ALL of its PHL-New England routes; B6 needs to come to PHL and offer PHL-BOS service. The set-up could be similar to their BWI-BOS service.

yes, please.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 33):
True, and I suppose the blue line offers the added advantage of fewer red-light-running trucks hitting the bus. And whoever designed the route of the Silver Line from South Station to the airport had to be on crack.

I got a chuckle out of that, on both counts.

I don't understand why the Silver line was designed to run so slowly in the tunnels, where it is protected from other traffic running into it.

I think the weird path is required because of the need to switch from electric to fossil fuel. But coming back into the city, I sometimes get off the first time it stops at World Trade Center, and go downstairs into the station to try and catch an earlier bus. Bizarre. I think the MBTA doesn't give you a free transfer for that, though.
 
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:28 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 36):
Quoting chrisnh (Reply 10):
MHT and PVD feasted off the misery of getting to and from Logan, and they built & spent accordingly.

With WN contributing along the way.

  

To me the thing that kicked everything off was WN undercutting the legacies mostly in fares but also in quality of product. If WN had been able to set up in Logan like B6 did, I think the story would have been much different, even though Logan was very difficult to access those days.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 38):
But how often do you buy a new car? I'm not going to decide where to live because I might buy a car every 7-10 years. Despite what NH politicians want you to believe, lack of sales tax alone is not an attraction for either tourists, new residents, or companies wanting to relocate there. It provides an added value, that's for sure, but no one is traveling to NH just to shop unless you live near the border and NH is the nearest place to shop.

No one is saying a lack of sales tax is the main factor when deciding where to live, but it's certainly a factor.

Everyone has to weigh the pain to gain ratios by themselves.

I sat on my hands for the better part of the last decade deciding where I wanted to live, and ended up in Nashua, and am quite happy with my choice, even with having to pay MA income tax because of where I work. Buying a comparable house in the 495 belt closer to work would have been 40%+ more (if I even could have found such a property), and that was probably the major factor. Besides if it mattered to me I could be working in Nashua (EMC, Intel, Oracle and Dell have shops here, and I know lots of people at those places and others too) but I prefer the challenges and rewards of my present job, despite paying MA income taxes.

As for driving to NH to shop, you should check out the license plates at the Southern NH stores, especially the liquor store!

I grew up in CT and my dad's friends would drive 2 hours to load up (sic) at the NH liquor store.
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airbazar
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:01 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 33):
Speaking of rumors about EK starting: EK has been running advertisements on local TV in Boston recently; does this presage a service announcement?

Apparently it's part of a national campaign. There's another thread about it.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 40):
Buying a comparable house in the 495 belt closer to work would have been 40%+ more (if I even could have found such a property), and that was probably the major factor.

That all depends on when you were shopping. I bought my house on the 495 belt 8 years ago and it was cheaper than anything I looked at in Nashua. I work in Merrimack, NH so I took a very hard look at every town in Southern NH, and when factoring in the cost of living, nothing was as cheap as where I live now.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 40):
As for driving to NH to shop, you should check out the license plates at the Southern NH stores, especially the liquor store!

Yes, a lot of people like me live in MA and we shop in NH not because it's cheaper but because it's closer. The Salem mall is 9 miles from my house while the closest mall in MA is the Burlington mall, 35 miles away. That's why you see MA license plates. There's a huge misconception in NH that all those license plates you see at the stores in NH, is people driving there to save on sales tax. It's not. It's because northern mass is a very sparse region and the towns of Salem and Nashua are the closest areas of commerce. It's simple geography.
 
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:02 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 41):
The Salem mall is 9 miles from my house while the closest mall in MA is the Burlington mall, 35 miles away.

I realize that this is off-topic, but there were plans to build a mall in South Tewksbury (Tewksbury Mills Mall) off I-93 (between EXITS 41 & 42). Did that mall ever get constructed?
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ScottB
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:24 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 41):
northern mass is a very sparse region and the towns of Salem and Nashua are the closest areas of commerce. It's simple geography.

Really? No one lives in Lowell or Lawrence? The population of Methuen is 50% higher than that of Salem, NH, but the retail is all in NH. If the locations of the Pheasant Lane & Rockingham Park Malls were truly being driven by traffic flows, they'd be down at the junctions of US 3 & I-93 with I-495 respectively, rather than right over the border (or on the border as is the case with the former).

Quoting tharanga (Reply 39):
I sometimes get off the first time it stops at World Trade Center, and go downstairs into the station to try and catch an earlier bus. Bizarre.

I've done that, too. Not just bizarre, but wicked bizahhhhhh.
 
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:25 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 41):
Yes, a lot of people like me live in MA and we shop in NH not because it's cheaper but because it's closer. The Salem mall is 9 miles from my house while the closest mall in MA is the Burlington mall, 35 miles away. That's why you see MA license plates. There's a huge misconception in NH that all those license plates you see at the stores in NH, is people driving there to save on sales tax. It's not. It's because northern mass is a very sparse region and the towns of Salem and Nashua are the closest areas of commerce. It's simple geography.

Yet those built-up retail areas drop off the instant you cross the MA border, with the major exception of restaurants because NH has a stiff rooms and meals tax. If it was just geography, a store would be just as happy to be 8.999 miles from your house and be in MA, but it isn't.

In any case, we are getting far off subject. I'm glad you found a property you liked in MA and that it works well for you. We can wave to each other on the highway each morning as you head north and I head south!  
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:39 am

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 36):
Person choice: Now that WN is killing off ALL of its PHL-New England routes; B6 needs to come to PHL and offer PHL-BOS service. The set-up could be similar to their BWI-BOS service.

I think it's not just a matter of if, but when.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 39):
I think the weird path is required because of the need to switch from electric to fossil fuel. But coming back into the city, I sometimes get off the first time it stops at World Trade Center, and go downstairs into the station to try and catch an earlier bus. Bizarre. I think the MBTA doesn't give you a free transfer for that, though.

That is correct, though I don't see why they can't make the conversion on the ramp just after the World Trade Center stop. I wish they did let you transfer for free. I also wish they stopped at the Airport station as well to make travel from East Boston to South Station a little easier too.

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 31):
Where do they shop? The Wrentham Outlet Village south of Boston.

What is it with the Wrentham Outlets that is so popular? I live only 15 minutes away and still have only been a handful of times. It's all clothing stores, but that isn't something that will make me go there.
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airbazar
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:35 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 43):
Really? No one lives in Lowell or Lawrence?

Historically they were very low income, run down towns. It's only recently that Lowel, Lawrence, Methuen, Haverhill, etc, have began to spruce up and attract people from the Boston suburbs. I'm one of those new residents. 20 years ago I would have never considered living in any of these towns. Property was really cheap across the border in Nashua and Salem and the quality of life was better. Both of those NH cities were once declared best city to live in the country. So businesses went where the market was and 20 years ago the customers were in Salem and Nashua.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 44):
Yet those built-up retail areas drop off the instant you cross the MA border, with the major exception of restaurants because NH has a stiff rooms and meals tax. If it was just geography, a store would be just as happy to be 8.999 miles from your house and be in MA, but it isn't.

No they don't, that's a misconception. And the Burlington mall is a mere 12 miles from Lowell. And more are popping up. Look up "Loop Shopping Center" in Methuen. Stores like Target, Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot, GAP, Old Navy, BJ's, etc, etc, etc, have all started to appear on the MA side of the border over the last 10 years because of the shifting demographics of the above listed cities and as a consequence you are starting to see the stores north of the border suffer a bit.

Anyway, how did we end up so far off the main topic?  
Oh, MHT losing to BOS. I think Chris nailed it on the head.

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 31):
Management at MHT is horribly inept, not at all proactive, and tends to blame every bad thing on 'The Economy.'

But I also noticed that NH officials cast a very small net when trying to attract new business to the state. they often brag about companies that they poach from Massachusetts, which is fine, but in my opinion it's too small minded. There's a lack of multinationals in NH which is why I think it will be difficult to attract TATL traffic.
 
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:48 pm

I wanted to ask your opinions on the new security checkpoint of Logan Terminal C and the new pathways to the gates. I have had very bad experiences so far ...

1. Out of the 10 rows of scanning machines ... only 4-5 are open at a time and the lines are horrendous. Sometimes you can ask the TSA agent for bypassing the line if your flight is leaving soon ... but you just go from one line from another in the scanning area. And the TSA agents never seem to be in agreement on who should be let go first ...

2. After exiting the scanning area ... you have to take an almost V shaped detour to the original piers ... which could have been easily solved by constructing one corridor on each side (some impact on the airside too though). But hauling all these people and baggage on a longer route inside the terminal seems like an unnecessary waste of time and energy.

Maybe they want you to spend more energy and spend more money in the upcoming new outlets to regain that energy  

[Edited 2012-01-06 08:49:06]
 
PVD757
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:41 pm

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 20):
Yeah, I used it. The station is wicked convenient, but the train timings suck...

The schedule was expanded in November and is much better than the initial schedule that was in place.

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 29):
The DL scheduleat PVD is a shell of what it once was, lots of CRJs

All 3 of the PVD-ATL flights have been M88s for a while now. You should come back and give us a try! If you live close by the Providence/Stoughton line, you can now take the commuter rail right to TF Green. Either way, parking is cheaper and the experience should be much easier.
 
dfambro
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RE: BOS Record Passengers In 2011 And Growth In '12

Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:44 pm

Quoting ASA (Reply 47):
I wanted to ask your opinions on the new security checkpoint of Logan Terminal C and the new pathways to the gates. I have had very bad experiences so far ...

It has seemed like longer lines to me, compared to my experience on the United side before. But I like that it's more spacious after screening, when you're reassembling your bags and putting shoes back on. The longer walk doesn't bother me much, but it does look like a forced walk for retail purposes.

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