na
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First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:01 pm

http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.main?LC=nav4&page=3

The day has finally come. Lufthansa has retired its first 744, D-ABVA, which, with more than 110.000 flight hours, will be dismantled. As always with old LH planes, I think the scrapping process is going to begin soon.

Farewell, D-ABVA, you have served very well!
 
LH526
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:10 pm

Farewell D-ABVA! You served us good!  
Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
 
ebj1248650
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:12 pm

That's a lot of flight hours. Lufthansa definitely got their money's worth out of that airplane. How many more are scheduled to be retired this year?
Dare to dream; dream big!
 
steman
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:16 pm

Sad but inevitable.
If I am not wrong, the second one will be retired at the end of this month.
But in a couple of months, the first 747-830i will be delivered.
According to this website http://lh-taufnamen.de/lufthansa/ , LH will receive 5 B748i in 2012
I have also heard that some of the 744 will be refurbished, receiving a new C class as well as PTV in economy.
The process has already started but I don´t know how many LH intends to keep along with the 748s and A380s.

How can you not love an airline whose long haul fleet is almost entirely made up of 4 holers, including the biggest and newest ones?  

S
 
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scbriml
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:23 pm

Quoting na (Thread starter):
I think the scrapping process is going to begin soon.

Do you know where this will happen?

Quoting steman (Reply 3):
How can you not love an airline whose long haul fleet is almost entirely made up of 4 holers, including the biggest and newest ones?

Indeed!  
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
na
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:25 pm

Quoting steman (Reply 3):

Sad but inevitable.
If I am not wrong, the second one will be retired at the end of this month.
But in a couple of months, the first 747-830i will be delivered.
According to this website http://lh-taufnamen.de/lufthansa/ , LH will receive 5 B748i in 2012
I have also heard that some of the 744 will be refurbished, receiving a new C class as well as PTV in economy.
The process has already started but I don´t know how many LH intends to keep along with the 748s and A380s.  

I dont know the exact number, but am sure the second batch of deliveries (1996-2001) will be kept for most of this decade, that is D-ABVM, D-ABVO - Z and D-ABTK and L. I herd rumours that a few planes from the first batch (1989-1992) will also be refurbished.

Quoting steman (Reply 3):
How can you not love an airline whose long haul fleet is almost entirely made up of 4 holers, including the biggest and newest ones?  

Absolutely right. With the arrival of the 748I LH will have the most attractive longhaul fleet worldwide.
 
na
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:50 pm

Can anyone provide the final record of D-ABVAs flight hours/cycles? I heard its about 118.000 hours.
 
wilco737
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:59 pm

Ah well... Sad day, but it was to be expected.

Quoting na (Reply 6):
Can anyone provide the final record of D-ABVAs flight hours/cycles? I

I cannot check the system anymore as it is out of service. But it should be close to 120,000 hours...

Bye bye D-ABVA.

wilco737
  
 
mikey72
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:03 pm

Quoting na (Reply 5):
With the arrival of the 748I LH will have the most attractive longhaul fleet worldwide.

With that livery ? Are you kidding ?

Has to be the most boring livery out there.

I do envy you though TOTALLY the 748i !

Argggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..I hate LH.

  

Just kidding.

  

Looking forward to seeing some pics.

[Edited 2012-01-03 05:14:05]
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garpd
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:03 pm

Wow, 118,000 hours equates to 13 years in the air. And apart from the high number of hours, which makes it nigh impossible to sell on, I bet there is nothing wrong with D-ABVA.
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JU068
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:04 pm

Has Lufthansa announced the first destination for the B747-800?
 
wilco737
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:22 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 10):

No, still rumours... Some say short flights to have her back in FRA for many hours (DXB) or east coast US to do one destination with one frame... Others say: DEL, PVG, EZE, GRU...

wilco737
  
 
PanHAM
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:26 pm

will the dismantling take place here at FRA, or HAM? Doesn't say anywhere.
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JU068
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:26 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 11):
No, still rumours... Some say short flights to have her back in FRA for many hours (DXB) or east coast US to do one destination with one frame... Others say: DEL, PVG, EZE, GRU...

Thanks for that. I guess that they will not need to have familiarization flights since it's quite the same as the B744?
 
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RayChuang
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:38 pm

With LH's numerous fleet of larger long-range planes (24 A340-600's and with more A380-800's and 747-8i's arriving), their workhorse 747-400 fleet will soon head towards retirement and scrapping because many of those 744's have run up a lot of takeoff/landing cycles.

Don't be surprised that by 2017-2018, LH's larger long-range fleet will be A340-600's, 747-8i's and maybe as much as 25 A388's. LH could use more A388's, especially since the flights between SFO and FRA tend to be very full during high season even with the A388.

Which does remind me: has LH considered buying the A350-900 to eventually replace the A340-300 fleet?
 
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robffm2
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:52 pm

Quoting na (Thread starter):
The day has finally come. Lufthansa has retired its first 744, D-ABVA, which, with more than 110.000 flight hours, will be dismantled. As always with old LH planes, I think the scrapping process is going to begin soon.

I'm not sure whether this is the first 744 to be retired from service. I believe there was a similar thread two or three months ago.

Also the Lufthansa Magazine for November shows the number of 744 already as 28 (down from 30)

http://www.lhm-lounge.de/lh_1111_interkonti/lh_1111_inter_doppel.pdf (page 88)
 
na
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:54 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 14):
Don't be surprised that by 2017-2018, LH's larger long-range fleet will be A340-600's, 747-8i's and maybe as much as 25 A388's.

There is a lot that can happen before 2020, but technically the last LH 744s could fly until 2024 if they keep the current very high utilisation rate. Maybe the 748I will become a big success for LH and they convert their options, then I see the highest possibility that the remaining 744s might be sold a few years earlier than scheduled. Under normal circumstances I would expect that the second batch of LH 744s is being sold in 2019-21 (the youngest of them then still being able to serve a few years elsewhere like what happend when LH retired the 742 fleet in 2001).

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 14):
Which does remind me: has LH considered buying the A350-900 to eventually replace the A340-300 fleet?

Considered? Certainly. But not acted. The only thing I read is that two 1993-built A340-300s will be sold this year.
 
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:17 pm

Quoting na (Reply 6):
Can anyone provide the final record of D-ABVAs flight hours/cycles? I heard its about 118.000 hours.

... figure is 112.358 (flight time) 117.982 (block time) 15274 cycles
  

[Edited 2012-01-03 06:21:10]
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na
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:39 pm

Thanks. Whats the difference between flight and block time?
 
vv701
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:49 pm

Quoting robffm2 (Reply 15):
I'm not sure whether this is the first 744 to be retired from service.

No, there have been others. For example croll down here to the second photo to see the remains of BA 744 G-BNLB.

http://cardiffstathan.blogspot.com/search?q=g-bnlb

Although it was only broken up recently it was actually retired in November 2008.
 
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:57 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 19):

No, there have been others. For example croll down here to the second photo to see the remains of BA 744 G-BNLB.

Obviously I was talking about Lufthansa's 744 only.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:14 pm

Quoting steman (Reply 3):
But in a couple of months, the first 747-830i will be delivered.

If only the 748I had been on time we would have had a 'natural rotation out of the fleet.'

Quoting robffm2 (Reply 15):
Also the Lufthansa Magazine for November shows the number of 744 already as 28 (down from 30)

Who has the largest 744 fleet today?

How many 744s have been scrapped? LH, BA, NZ, and a few others have scrapped older examples that I can recall.

Lightsaber
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mikey72
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:19 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 19):
No, there have been others. For example croll down here to the second photo to see the remains of BA 744 G-BNLB.

http://cardiffstathan.blogspot.com/search?q=g-bnlb

Although it was only broken up recently it was actually retired in November 2008.

An object that can fly..looks so graceful in the air..and once cost hundreds of millions of dollars..it's a really sad ending !!
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
aerosol
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:47 pm

Quoting na (Reply 18):

Thanks. Whats the difference between flight and block time?

Blocktime= time off-blocks (including taxi)
Fllighttime=time in the air
 
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DesertFlyer
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:17 pm

Quoting na (Reply 5):
I dont know the exact number, but am sure the second batch of deliveries (1996-2001) will be kept for most of this decade, that is D-ABVM, D-ABVO - Z and D-ABTK and L. I herd rumours that a few planes from the first batch (1989-1992) will also be refurbished.

I just flew on D-ABVN with the refurbished interior. VN was delivered in 1992, so definitely some of the older 744s are getting refurbished.
 
na
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:38 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 21):
How many 744s have been scrapped? LH, BA, NZ, and a few others have scrapped older examples that I can recall

D-ABVA excluded, these are the 744s I know of which have been or are currently being dismantled:

AF: 3 or 4
QF: 2
BA: 1 or 2
NZ: 1 (a second one will be scrapped soon)
JAL: all "D"-models have been wfu and sold for scrap
ANA: "D"-models are in the process of retirement and subsequent scrap
UA: 1 (a second one will be scrapped soon)
CX: 1
 
mickey90
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:52 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 21):
Who has the largest 744 fleet today?

BA with 55 744s in service.
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:54 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 21):
Who has the largest 744 fleet today?

I believe it is BA; don't they have about 50 of them?
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
mikey72
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:05 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 21):
Who has the largest 744 fleet today?

Peaking at 57 aircraft and currently standing at 52 aircraft in active service the British Airways Boeing 747-400 passenger fleet was and is the largest in the world.

Three aircraft, G-BNLA, G-BNLD and G-BNLH are currently in storage at Victorville, California. G-BNLG, G-BNLU and G-BNLV were also placed into storage at Victorville during 2009 but have returned to the UK for service re-entry.

Two British Airways Boeing 747-436s, G-BNLB and G-BNLC were scrapped at Cardiff-Wales in November 2011.
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MSPNWA
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:32 pm

Sad to hear even though we all new the last day was coming soon for D-ABVA. It wasn't the longest 744 life, but it certainly was a fulfilling one. Now the cycle will continue when the 748 comes on board,
 
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:53 pm

Quoting DABZF (Reply 17):
117.982

And to think it got there in only 21 years. A great career.

Quoting na (Reply 5):
the second batch of deliveries (1996-2001) will be kept for most of this decade, that is D-ABVM, D-ABVO - Z and D-ABTK and L.

These will no doubt be kept until they accumulate 100,000+ hours as well, which would put their retirements between about 2018 and 2022. Sounds like a good time for either the delivery of option 747-8s or additional A380s. A bit too early for an early 777-9X order, IMO, although that might be the best foreseeable option for late 744 replacement.
 
HBIHLtoEZE
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:59 pm

Fare well, D-ABVA,

sad to see those 80s 744 go...



Lufthansa Boeing 747-400; D-ABVA@FRA;09.07.2010 by Aero Icarus, on Flickr
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na
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:23 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 30):
And to think it got there in only 21 years. A great career.

22 years 7 months to be exakt. Delivery was in May 1989.
 
Dtw757
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:26 pm

One of the first routes flown by LH for the 744 in 1989 was FRA-HAM. It was one of my options for my trip to HAM that year but I ended up flying TWA instead. I will never forget arriving at HAM and being parked hardstand on our TWA 727-100. We were drivin up to the terminal on a bus passing next to the brand new giant LH 747-400 and I thought to myself we could have arrived on that! It was most likely D-ABVA because D-ABVB was delivered just days before our trip. So sad to see these beautiful machines cut up.
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:32 pm

I happened to see one of the very first 744's just after it entered service; I was flying NW and was at DTW (I was probably going to a GM plant about one of our grinding machines) and it was at the gate there, large as life and twice as natural. Interestingly, it had either arrived from or was flying to MSP; I was struck by the fact that it was a pretty short flight for it. Obviously it was headed or had been overseas; but I did not find out where. I cannot remember the date, but I distinctly remember seeing that magnificent plane, and had read about its debut with NW, and was quite excited to actually see it so close up.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
holzmann
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:33 pm

Sources close to me indicate that LH will bring the 747-8i to IAD by this summer.
 
tonymctigue
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:37 pm

Quoting steman (Reply 3):
How can you not love an airline whose long haul fleet is almost entirely made up of 4 holers, including the biggest and newest ones?

One answer to that question. You can't (unless you're an environmental nut that is convinced that the less than 2% of global emissions that the airplanes release is the 2% that is going to cause us all to drown in melting polar ice. The other 98% has nothing to do with it). Sadly, there are fewer airlines than ever who operate an almost all quad-jet long haul fleets and the very future of the quad jet is int itself very much in doubt with many experts predicting the A380 and the B748 being the last ever production quad jets. We've recently seen the A340 go by the way of the trijet in the early 1990's being put out of production way ahead and with way fewer frames than initial predictions.
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SEPilot
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:46 pm

Quoting steman (Reply 3):
How can you not love an airline whose long haul fleet is almost entirely made up of 4 holers, including the biggest and newest ones?

You can if you are someone who actually studies accident statistics and realizes that, based on history, twins are actually safer than 4-holers. 
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
bennett123
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:09 pm

Na

I think that Air France is 3, (F-GITA/B/C at Kemble in 2011). F-GEXA is at Kemble and looks set to join them shortly.
 
andrewuber
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:21 pm

Considering the cost in 1989 was between $52-$58 million (let's estimate high at $60 million green), with 120,000 flight hours - the cost of ownership (without maintenance and all other costs obviously) was a mere $500 per flight hour. Amazing.

I am surprised that these frames don't have any value other than parts, I would think LH Technik could do some cargo conversions.

Drew
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na
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:24 pm

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 37):
You can if you are someone who actually studies accident statistics and realizes that, based on history, twins are actually safer than 4-holers. 

Only if you unfairly include Oldies like the 707 or 747 Classics.
The only fair direct comparison (same age, same size) can be made between the A340 and A330, and while hundreds died onboard the twinjets, none did so on the Quad.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:34 pm

Quoting na (Reply 40):
The only fair direct comparison (same age, same size) can be made between the A340 and A330, and while hundreds died onboard the twinjets, none did so on the Quad.

Not so; you can compare "modern" widebodies more broadly than that. On the quad side, you have the 744, all A340s, and the A380. On the twin side, you have all 767s, all A330s, and all 777s. Focus on engine failures and you will find they occur more often on the quads than the twins.
 
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American 767
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:40 pm

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 27):
I believe it is BA

Yes it is BA, that I am sure. Although JAL had at one time the largest fleet of 747s of all variants (they have flown all variants except the SP), BA has always had the largest fleet of 744s.

Quoting na (Reply 32):
22 years 7 months to be exakt. Delivery was in May 1989.

Did it ever wear the old blue cheatline livery with the silver belly underneath? I know the Lufthansa livery was updated in 1990 or so, but since the first 744 was delivered like you say in 1989 then maybe it may have worn the old livery for a while. I know the first 733 has, because Lufthansa got it already in 1988 and I remember seeing it then in the old livery. Not sure about the first A320. I don't think any 744 has ever been painted in the old livery, although I'm not sure. If D-ABVA didn't wear it, then neither did any other 744 at Lufthansa.

Ben Soriano
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B747forever
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:02 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 41):
Focus on engine failures and you will find they occur more often on the quads than the twins.

That is only logical as they have twice the number of engines and therefore twice the chance for a engine failure.
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SEPilot
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:09 pm

Quoting na (Reply 40):
The only fair direct comparison (same age, same size) can be made between the A340 and A330, and while hundreds died onboard the twinjets, none did so on the Quad.

The comparison I did was finding all of the engine caused crashes (engine malfunction or engines falling off) for jet transports going back to the beginning of the jet age. Interestingly, I found exactly the same number of engine cause crashes in twins and in airliners with more than two engines; and since far more twins have been built statistically they are far less likely to have an engine caused crash. Interestingly, I found no engine caused crashes of early jets (707, 727, DC-8, CV880, CV990), and the largest single cause of engine related crashes was engines falling off (two 747's and one DC-10.) It is counter-intuitive, but more engines (once you get beyond one) does NOT translate into safer.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
tonymctigue
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:18 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 38):
You can if you are someone who actually studies accident statistics and realizes that, based on history, twins are actually safer than 4-holers.

That's a small bit misleading though in that four holers have been around alot longer than twins and of course were around in the pioneering days of aviation where everything was a bit more experimental than they are now. So, unless you are quoting accident statistics starting at the time when twins were introduced, I'm afraid you statement is a classic example of lies, dam lies and statistics (no offense of course!).
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bennett123
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:23 pm

tonymctigue

You might like to read reply 38 again.
 
tonymctigue
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:41 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 46):
You might like to read reply 38 again.

Do you mean reply 37?
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ikramerica
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:46 pm

It's also loaded because so many 747s were targeted by bombs/shot down compared to other types. Then there is the Azores accident that had nothing to do with the type, would have happened to any two aircraft, but long range twins didn't exist at the time.
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cmf
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RE: First LH 744 Retired

Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:52 pm

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 36):
One answer to that question. You can't (unless you're an environmental nut that is convinced that the less than 2% of global emissions that the airplanes release is the 2% that is going to cause us all to drown in melting polar ice. The other 98% has nothing to do with it). Sadly, there are fewer airlines than ever who operate an almost all quad-jet long haul fleets and the very future of the quad jet is int itself very much in doubt

Only people with their head in the sand will try to make an issue about efficiency in to a poor argument about environmental impact.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.