eastern023
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AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:31 pm

I searched, but did not see any similar topics…AA currently in Chapter 11 cannot receive any takeover offers until it lays out the bankruptcy plan. That deadline, set by the court is coming very soon next February. Would we see a potential bid from US Airways, if the plan is not approved? The more I think about it, the more it makes sense in my head. Networks/hubs complement each other and fleet seems to also head in that direction after AA’s Airbus plane order. Think about it, AA’s hubs are DFW, JFK, LAX, MIA & ORD, with a Focus city of LGA (from Wikipedia), meanwhile US has CLT, PHX, PHL and LGA & DCA as focus cities. This would give AA access to more cities up and down the east coast and US would get more international access (i.e. Asia and Latin America) I am just curious to find out your thoughts.

Thanks,

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mogandoCI
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:34 pm

Quoting eastern023 (Thread starter):
Think about it, AA’s hubs are DFW, JFK, LAX, MIA & ORD, with a Focus city of LGA (from Wikipedia), meanwhile US has CLT, PHX, PHL and LGA & DCA as focus cities. This would give AA access to more cities up and down the east coast and US would get more international access (i.e. Asia and Latin America) I am just curious to find out your thoughts.

The best assets are probably lots and lots of RJ and some A32x, CLT, and DCA. But there's also a lot to dismantle, so net-net the merger is marginal whether it's worth pursuing.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:37 pm

Quoting eastern023 (Thread starter):
meanwhile US has CLT, PHX, PHL and LGA & DCA as focus cities

As many of us know, LGA won't be a focus city for US for much longer...
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eastern023
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:44 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 2):
As many of us know, LGA won't be a focus city for US for much longer...

Yes, sure slot swap with DL got it. It is what is currently listed. LGA is a "focus city" for AA though....
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HPRamper
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:48 pm

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 4):
Yes, sure slot swap with DL got it. It is what is currently listed. LGA is a "focus city" for AA though....

US might not have a focus at LGA for much longer, but even with hub flights will still have plenty of slots. Would AA inherit all those or would there be another divestiture?
 
ripcordd
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:37 am

Really the only thing that US has is CLT and a little bit of DCA that would bring the goods to a merger with AA....PHX would close in favor of LAX ,,,PHL would close in favor of JFK/LGA..That would create such a unhappy work force it would be crazy to get the 2 airline employees to get a long and work...
 
steeler83
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:33 am

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 5):
Really the only thing that US has is CLT and a little bit of DCA that would bring the goods to a merger with AA....PHX would close in favor of LAX ,,,PHL would close in favor of JFK/LGA..That would create such a unhappy work force it would be crazy to get the 2 airline employees to get a long and work...

That would be a disaster for PHL if they were to lose US. I wonder who would come rushing in to fill in the massive gaping hole should that happen.

Yeah, my issue would be with the unions -- 2 different unions representing the pilots, FAs, etc. = 1 unhappy work environment...

US would gain more from AA (more int'l service plus DFW, ORD, MIA, and JFK) than AA would from US (CLT, A320s).
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UNITED777ORD
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:52 am

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 5):
Really the only thing that US has is CLT and a little bit of DCA that would bring the goods to a merger with AA....PHX would close in favor of LAX ,,,PHL would close in favor of JFK/LGA..That would create such a unhappy work force it would be crazy to get the 2 airline employees to get a long and work...

PHL would not close as a hub if AA/US merge. PHL has a good amount of O&D traffic and connecting traffic to key US and international markets. Plus, AA/AE have downsized JFK and Delta is rapidly expanding and gaining JFK market share from American. PHL could alleviate some of the congestion that JFK experiences at peak travel hours. JFK would remain a international gateway.
 
Metrojet732
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:21 am

First of all why would you close PHL??? It wouldn’t make any since. A US/AA combined airline, PHL would become even more important. We all know at JFK, AA is limited on what they can do. If they were smart, they would concentrate on the top destinations out of the NYC market. Then move the other domestic and international flights to PHL where they would be able to have more connectable flights. Also, PHL gives you a really strong Northeast hub that JFK would never give you. When it comes to work force, if the right personal was at the helm, nothing impossible. Look what Gordon did with CAL!! They were good as gone. But ounce he got his hands on them, he turned them into the Airline everyone wanted to work for n fly on… A AA/US combined airline could, under the right management, could easy take over UAL n Delta for top US airline. But Parker isn’t that guy…
 
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:37 am

Quoting Metrojet732 (Reply 8):
A AA/US combined airline could, under the right management, could easy take over UAL n Delta for top US airline. But Parker isn’t that guy…

Well depends on what you would consider "Top US airline"

When talking about fiances Parker would be the best guy for this to happen, but when talking about everything besides fiance Parker may not be the guy....

But I could see him pull this merger off, he did it with America West and the close to dead US.
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ripcordd
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:41 am

The problem is OneWorld being so big at JFK they would never be able to give PHL the Attn it would need...PHL wouldnt close over night like PHX would but over time it would. Then how do you tell PHX employees who have been there since the start you can move to LAX/DFW/ORD. And no doubt JFK will offer everything and more than PHL would to AA....and that will come with B6 tie up or massive codeshare.
 
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:59 am

Interestingly, from what I'm told some IAM union general chairs are saying an AA/US merger is "a done deal already" behind the scenes. I'm guessing this is just union fearmongering as the IAM desperately wants to avoid this, since it would likely kick them off the US property in favor of the TWU which is already on the much-larger AA property.
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:01 am

If this happens, closing PHL would be absolutely idiotic on behalf of AA/US. There is way too much high yielding traffic to PHL on a domestic and international level.

What I could see happening is JFK being a mostly O&D opperation and PHL handling most of the connections to Europe as well as that markets O&D.

There is definite value in what US has on the East Coast. What US has out west however, is a different story. Even then, I cant see PHX shutting down, but I can see it emphasized to regional cities and major markets only. Naturally, PHX would still have BA for Europe O&D and connections.
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kiwiandrew

RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:08 am

OT, I know, but if an AA/US merger were to happen ( not holding my breath on this in spite of constant rumours) what would happen to B6? Would this push them away from AA?
 
Metrojet732
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:08 am

When it comes to finances, you right. Parker could easily do the job. But when it comes to the over all airlines moral, (which I think is just as important, if not more) I’d take a guy like a Gordon Bethune. A guy that makes you feel like he’s got you back. One that actually cares about his employees. Parker doesn’t know how to deal with employees. He just looks at the bottom dollar….
 
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:38 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 12):

If this happens, closing PHL would be absolutely idiotic on behalf of AA/US. There is way too much high yielding traffic to PHL on a domestic and international level.

Exactly, but we are all arm chairing it here so there will be opinions that this hub is gone or that hub is gone. In reality PHL is a strong yielding market and would allow for the new AA to dominate out east. High yield business traffic would all go through New York while PHL will continue what it does now and be a strong connecting hub to Europe. Does OneWorld need to retool and move to PHL, nope...there can be a flight or two dropped in but doesn't need a full NYC size deployment.

PHX would probably get pulled down a bit, but would probably be comparable to CVG with DL.

DCA is practically a hub already, so that will do a lot there. CLT is a great southeast hub and will do well with MIA. Like someone else mentioned, this opens a bunch of larger RJs up for the AA flight. You can bet they will end up in Chicago and Dallas very fast.
 
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:19 am

Quoting eastern023 (Thread starter):
I searched, but did not see any similar topics

  

That's because the search function is bust. The hypothetical AA-US merger has been disscussed to death here.
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mogandoCI
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:35 am

the bigger arm chair CEOs are those who think maintaining hubs+focus cities in BOS-LGA-JFK-PHL-DCA is a good idea

they all have O&D and all have decent yields, but a combined airline simply can't be the jack of all trades

the new battle for domination is fought over international flights. Those stuck in the northeast-shuttle mindset is bound to be left behind.
 
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:31 am

that would be a dream come true if Gordon went to AA
 
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:49 am

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 15):
CLT is a great southeast hub and will do well with MIA. Like someone else mentioned, this opens a bunch of larger RJs up for the AA flight.

Kind of a contradiction there, no? I've made this point before and I might as well make it again since the topic has come back up: If MIA is brought into the fold in a hypothetical merger, it completely changes the strategy/focus at CLT. Presently, CLT is US's main and largest hub and, as US has no MIA, it uses CLT as it's best current asset to tap into the Caribbean/Latin America traffic just as DL makes due with ATL. Bring MIA into the equation however, and all of a sudden the new AA/US has a much better, much more profitable gateway to South America along with plenty of new, larger RJ's to add cities domestically from MIA to connect onto it's international flights, bypassing CLT. IMO CLT is a strong hub for US and in a merger with AA will likely remain a strong domestic hub, but it's current status as a Caribb/LatAm gateway would likely be curtailed with the exception of a few of the majors such as SJU, CUN...etc in a merger with AA.
 
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:45 am

PHL: 5 million potential pax. Close PHL under this scenario? NO WAY.
PHX: Marginal hub with WN there but strategically sound. Logistically no way to move it all to LAX.
CLT: Goldmine.
DCA: See CLT.

AA+US=Long term success after labor synergies worked out.
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caliboy78
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:22 am

I read an article today that US Airways was going to start the same as what AA is doing right now which is having their flights touch their hubs about 98% of the time and the change should be done by late July 2012. Coincidence..... I think not!!!!!!!! Anyways I'm don't know what to think or say. But whatever AA and US do I just hope is good for all of the employees.

I believe LAX ORD JFK CLT MIA PHL and DFW will be hubs and BOS LGA PHX will be focus cities. I know JFK LGA and PHL are very close by but that's how I think it may play out to give DL and UA good and healthy competition and a good run for their moolah since AA will be leaner and their cost will be down and very up to par with all of them not to say the start of a great fleet renewal amongst other good things.

Now labor it's another story but I'm sure help from the court will aliviate some of the hurtle and a little bit of cash to up the ante and to bring the US employees to AA level might close the deal.
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:40 am

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 16):
Quoting eastern023 (Thread starter):
I searched, but did not see any similar topics

  

That's because the search function is bust. The hypothetical AA-US merger has been disscussed to death here.

Easy way to search in the interim: Google "AA US merger site:airliners.net" (without the quote marks) and it will return lots of recent threads in the search results. Easy and time-efficient way to search any site, really.
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AAplat4life
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:48 pm

If the merger happens while AMR is in bankruptcy, then it will ultimatley be up to the creditors to decide if it goes through. That is, are they better off with a merged airline or taking AMR out of Chapter 11 on its own? Frankly, I don't see the new Horton lead AMR team inspiring much confidence or vision among investors or employees. And while US Air has its own integration problems from the America West merger, Parker at least has a lot of credability among the financical community. So this would argue well for the merger. Let's look at the other factors:

1. Proximity of PHL and JFK should not be an issue, because UAL has EWK and IAD. Besides their route networks are not particularly competitive overall.

2. Many Trans-Atlantic routes serviced by U out of PHL are not servied by AA from JFK and increasingly so out of other AA hubs.

3. AA has been retreating from many Europena routes, because it is unable to compete with its rivals. This would be less of a concern with those routes out of PHL where there is much less competition. PHL could therefore serve as a connecting hub for those cities--that is, almost every EU destination other than LHR and CDG.

4. With other hubs serving EU cities, AA would continue to shrink ORD. After all, it is unable to compete with UAL and Star team members anymore, Virgin America will continue to encroach on west coast routes, the business traveler continues to flock to Southwest at Midway and DL has good operations at two hubs each about an hour away from ORD.

5. PHX and LAX would continue pretty much as they are already. There would be challenges with merging their LAX operations into one terminal, and there is not really a lot of spac at LAX to scale down PHX and transfer operations to LAX.

6. CLT and PHL could see LHR service and some improved connecting service to Pacific destinations, even though AA continues to be a bit player to UAL and DL. Tokkyo service would be a possibility.

7. Labor relations and integration will continue to be an issue to matter what, so management is not going to let this stand int he way of a merger.

I'd say those AA executives who will survive the merger should start packing their bags and get ready to move the Phoenix. Even though one could argue that Dallas is much better suited for the HQ, the HQ location belongs to the winner.
 
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:26 pm

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 23):

You have some sort of obsession with AA moving it's HQ from Texas as you bring it up every time this topic comes us.

Even in a merger, it's not going to happen. The facilities in Fort Worth are far more vast and far superior to anything US has in Phoenix. Plus, Texas has more business friendly laws than Arizona.

Save your breath bro, the HQ will remain in Texas regardless. Do you honestly think that had US bought Delta that the HQ would not have been in Atlanta?
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:46 pm

My problem with AA is that it continues to make stupid, insular decisions. Based on my discussions with AA employees--and not just the ones that work on planes--this is due to an inbred corporate culture held up at DFW. Doesn't matter though. The prevaiing party in a merger decides where the HQ will be. So Atlanta won over Minneapolis when Delta mergerd with Northwest and Chicago over Houston with United Continental. So if US and AA merged during the latter's bankruptcy, the stronger of the two would be US. If Parker wants to move to Texas, then it would be his call no doubt.
 
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:53 pm

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 19):
Kind of a contradiction there, no?

Not at all. MIA is a great city for southbound O&D and can host some connections from larger cities, but it will never have the panoply of domestic connections that CLT has. MIA and CLT can work together - they are farther apart than CLT and PHL and ORD and IAD, and no one is arguing that those sets of hubs are redundant.

CLT works better for connections from smaller US cities to bigger Caribbean and Latin American destinations (CRW-CUN or SDF-SJU). MIA works better for connections from bigger US cities to smaller Caribbean and Latin American destinations (PHL-TGU or ORD-ANU). Most US-Caribbean itineraries are also shorter via CLT than via MIA.
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STT757
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:18 pm

PHL is a major market right in the middle of the Northeast corridor, there's no way a post merger AA/US would do anything but expand at PHL. AA is a distant 4th in the NYC market, a merger with US will not change anything in NY as they are at a huge disadvantage in terms of lack of slots for growth. UA moved their JFK international routes to IAD, which proved to be a succesful strategy.

For a combined AA/US I think their priorities would be:

1.) Remain competitive in the NYC market, adding the US Shuttle plus a closer relationship with BA and B6 at JFK
2.) Expand their West Coast presence, especially at LAX (possibly shifting assets from PHX)
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txkf2010
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:29 pm

What about VX and US?
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OzarkD9S
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:41 pm

Quoting txkf2010 (Reply 28):


What about VX and US?

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seabosdca
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:48 pm

This seems a somewhat likely exit strategy from BK for AA. What I think the combined entity would do:

- Boost NYC domestic and international O&D using the remaining US LGA slots, and by shifting some connecting traffic to PHL
- Focus international connections at PHL and expand international service there
- Keep DCA, CLT, MIA, and DFW as is
- De-emphasize PHX, ceding some of the low-yielding markets there to WN
- De-emphasize ORD, moving some international traffic to PHL and DFW and ceding less-profitable domestic markets
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:04 pm

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 25):
Chicago over Houston with United Continental.

Ironic since CO's personel is running the show. That could tell you they were "the winner'. Yet, the HQ is in Chicago and not Houston.

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 25):
this is due to an inbred corporate culture held up at DFW.

And thats the fault of Texas and the DFW Metroplex? There are poorly managed companies in every major metropolitan area in the US. Its not a fault of the area itself, just the leadership (and other parties as well in AA's case).

Bottom line is this: DFW has the facilities to better handle a mega carrier than does PHX, DFW is in a more business friendly region of the country, DFW would be the much larger opperation, and DFW is much more of an economic powerhouse than PHX. That was not the case for the Atlanta vs. MSP or Chicago vs. Houston choices the other carriers had to make for Minneapolis and Houston respectively.

Your arguement is weak.

[Edited 2012-01-04 07:05:35]
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txkf2010
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:16 pm

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 29):

why not? VX would "instantly" grow and have east coast presence in CLT and PHL. With PHL that could tie them to Virgin Atlantic for connections. Maybe the start of the Virgin alliance.
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mogandoCI
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:22 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 30):
- Boost NYC domestic and international O&D using the remaining US LGA slots, and by shifting some connecting traffic to PHL
- Focus international connections at PHL and expand international service there

Should be the other way around - trim PHL to O&D levels, and up-gauge JFK equipment to handle additional TATL flows.

Ceding ground at JFK will only further weaken the LGA part of the equation. Not to mention the bare presence of oneworld carriers at PHL and how *pleasant* the experience is to transit at PHL compared to JFK T-8.
 
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Polot
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:26 pm

Quoting txkf2010 (Reply 32):
why not? VX would "instantly" grow and have east coast presence in CLT and PHL. With PHL that could tie them to Virgin Atlantic for connections. Maybe the start of the Virgin alliance.

Except VX is tiny. 46 planes versus 340. US would be the surviving carrier, not VX, and with VX being the dominant carrier absolutely nowhere US would only be interested if it wanted additional A32Xs quickly.
 
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STT757
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:44 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 31):
Ironic since CO's personel is running the show. That could tell you they were "the winner'. Yet, the HQ is in Chicago and not Houston.

The State of Illinois and City of Chicago gave UA an incentive (tax break) package Texas and Houston couldn't (didn't) match. They did the same thing to "land" Boeing's headquarters.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 33):
Should be the other way around - trim PHL to O&D levels, and up-gauge JFK equipment to handle additional TATL flows.

Impossible without slots.

[Edited 2012-01-04 07:45:31]
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seabosdca
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:48 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 33):
Should be the other way around - trim PHL to O&D levels, and up-gauge JFK equipment to handle additional TATL flows.

Why funnel transfer pax through such a huge O&D market, part of which AA is already ceding to DL, international airlines, and even UA via EWR, when there is untapped transfer potential *and* better domestic feed at PHL?

Don't get me wrong, some transfer pax will always have to go through JFK because some destinations will only be served from JFK. But JFK O&D pax are more profitable than PHL O&D pax, and the number of them should be maximized. Plus, there is room for service expansion at PHL, unlike JFK.

Quote:
Ceding ground at JFK will only further weaken the LGA part of the equation.

They have pretty much nothing to do with each other. Who transits between LGA and JFK? No one sane.

Quote:
Not to mention the bare presence of oneworld carriers at PHL and how *pleasant* the experience is to transit at PHL compared to JFK T-8.

You don't need oneworld carriers at an East Coast transfer hub, you need domestic feed. AA/US would have plenty of that at PHL, actually much more than at JFK.
 
BC77008
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:07 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 24):
ou have some sort of obsession with AA moving it's HQ from Texas as you bring it up every time this topic comes us.

Even in a merger, it's not going to happen. The facilities in Fort Worth are far more vast and far superior to anything US has in Phoenix. Plus, Texas has more business friendly laws than Arizona.

Save your breath bro, the HQ will remain in Texas regardless. Do you honestly think that had US bought Delta that the HQ would not have been in Atlanta?

We said that when we were speculating on a potential UA/CO merger. No way would the new UA be based in Chicago. No way! At the end of the day it will be decided on which city puts up the most incentives to keep the HQ.
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:11 pm

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 23):

I'd say those AA executives who will survive the merger should start packing their bags and get ready to move the Phoenix. Even though one could argue that Dallas is much better suited for the HQ, the HQ location belongs to the winner

Nope.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 24):

Even in a merger, it's not going to happen. The facilities in Fort Worth are far more vast and far superior to anything US has in Phoenix.

Having been to both, this cannot be overstated. In fact, I do not think any other american airline has such an all-in-one facility on the scale of Centerport. It isn't just an HQ, there's also the flagship training facility, the SOC, and the massive simulator bank. Add to the very large scale MX facilities on property at KDFW (about five miles away) and the MRO at nearby AFW and there becomes Zero practical reason for relocating.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather live in PHX, but the usefulness of DFW HQ is out of this world. It's almost more of a Capital than just an HQ.

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 25):
The prevaiing party in a merger decides where the HQ will be ... ... and Chicago over Houston with United Continental.

Really? UA is now as much if not more CO than PMUA. Using your logic, they absolutely shouldn't have moved.

I actually happen to think that that move was indeed a bad idea, as the facilities at Houston were marginally better than Chicago and probably more productive as well. But Houston did lack Chicago's lobbying prowess, no doubt.
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mogandoCI
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:13 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 36):
Quote:
Ceding ground at JFK will only further weaken the LGA part of the equation.

They have pretty much nothing to do with each other. Who transits between LGA and JFK? No one sane.

No one transits like that, but it weakens the O&D base that resides in NYC and also weaken the value proposition of corporate contracts. Would local passengers and companies choose the airline that is committed to NYC and provides expansive coverage (UA / DL), or choose the one that force you to transfer at PHL/LHR ?

Do you see UA shifting everything over to IAD because it has "untapped potential" ? If anything, UA is down-gauging IAD with 752s while bringing 3-class planes to EWR.

This is entirely different from the old UA shifting JFK flights over to IAD, since old UA was already super weak in NYC and didn't have much left to lose. AA still has a meaningful presence at LGA.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 35):
Impossible without slots.

What extra slot is required to up-gauge from 763 to 77W ? Who says the only way to increase capacity is RJ-flooding ?


AA/US is DougParker's and wall street's wet dream, but it may go down in history as the next SprintNextel / AOL Time Warner.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:21 pm

Quoting BC77008 (Reply 37):
We said that when we were speculating on a potential UA/CO merger. No way would the new UA be based in Chicago. No way! At the end of the day it will be decided on which city puts up the most incentives to keep the HQ.

See below:

Quoting darksnowynight (Reply 38):
Having been to both, this cannot be overstated. In fact, I do not think any other american airline has such an all-in-one facility on the scale of Centerport. It isn't just an HQ, there's also the flagship training facility, the SOC, and the massive simulator bank. Add to the very large scale MX facilities on property at KDFW (about five miles away) and the MRO at nearby AFW and there becomes Zero practical reason for relocating.

That was not the case in the Chicago vs. Houston battle. Both facilities were relatively evenly mached. That is not the case with what US has in Phoenix vs. what AA has in Fort Worth.
It is what it is...
 
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seabosdca
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:58 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 39):
Would local passengers and companies choose the airline that is committed to NYC and provides expansive coverage (UA / DL), or choose the one that force you to transfer at PHL/LHR ?

Did I say anywhere that AA would pull current JFK destinations or force JFK O&D travelers to go through PHL? No. They would just redirect their focus at JFK from attracting transfer traffic to stealing O&D from the likes of DL. Corporate customers would find the JFK situation improved.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 39):
Do you see UA shifting everything over to IAD because it has "untapped potential" ?

Not yet, but as they grow it will be their only choice. There's tons of room at IAD. There is no more room at EWR.

In any case, moving 3-class equipment to EWR doesn't imply growth at EWR, it just implies matching the equipment to the customer base.
 
JHCRJ700
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:06 pm

I feel like this topic has been discussed ad-nosium over the past few weeks. Check some of the AA bankruptcy threads these things were dicussed there.
RUSH
 
mogandoCI
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:08 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 41):
Not yet, but as they grow it will be their only choice. There's tons of room at IAD. There is no more room at EWR.

In any case, moving 3-class equipment to EWR doesn't imply growth at EWR, it just implies matching the equipment to the customer base.

Not every hub has to be a replica of DFW with 7 runways and infinite RJs running 15 minute frequencies.

my guess is that any surplus demand that can't be met by EWR will possibly go to ORD instead - UA definitely wants to win that battle.

But we're digressing. This thread is about a merger potential with an airline that absolutely no one wants - US Airways.
 
laca773
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:22 pm

It seems many of you think a merger between US & AA would see US' PHX shut down and moved to LAX! This is beyond laughable, actually, I feel it's beyond insane and some what delusional. Where in the world would they even begin to operate such a hub out of LAX? AA 's mini hub from T4 and the remote storage like building they use for AE flights? Have any of you who suggest or think they would shut the PHX hub down and move it to LAX, ever seen US' operation in PHX? They have a large scale operation from PHX with three sizable concourses and serve everywhere US' flies with the exception of Europe. These threads can be very interesting, eye opening and one might even learn something new, but suggesting things like this are dreams or perhaps what one would do if they were to start their own airline.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:00 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 44):

It seems many of you think a merger between US & AA would see US' PHX shut down and moved to LAX! This is beyond laughable, actually, I feel it's beyond insane and some what delusional. Where in the world would they even begin to operate such a hub out of LAX? AA 's mini hub from T4 and the remote storage like building they use for AE flights? Have any of you who suggest or think they would shut the PHX hub down and move it to LAX, ever seen US' operation in PHX? They have a large scale operation from PHX with three sizable concourses and serve everywhere US' flies with the exception of Europe. These threads can be very interesting, eye opening and one might even learn something new, but suggesting things like this are dreams or perhaps what one would do if they were to start their own airline.

AA/US should *definitely* maintain a hub that's bombarded by Southwest, has zero international connectivity, is the ground zero of the housing bust, and within stone-throwing distance of LAX.

Not.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:07 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 44):
Where in the world would they even begin to operate such a hub out of LAX?

By cutting the substantial volume of completely unprofitable operations.

PHX may be big, but the goal isn't to be big; it's to make money.

AA/US would keep some of the service; WN would take some over; and some would just disappear, possibly even raising yields in the PHX market to sustainable levels.
 
corinthians
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:38 pm

With all the talk of how a merger would potentially boost PHL service, aren’t we forgetting how horribly congested that airport is right now? OK, I’m aware there’s a plan to expand and change the runway configuration and what not, but that will take a long time. Point is, does PHL really have that much more room to grow in the near future especially since it’s very saturated right now? A lot of you guys seem to think there’s endless room for growth, but it doesn’t have loads of runways like DEN and DFW. It’s only a matter of time before that airport gets slot restricted.
 
flyguy89
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:26 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 26):
it will never have the panoply of domestic connections that CLT has.

Not domestically, but 1-2 daily flights to connect to the international banks is indeed very realistic. They already do this in many smaller markets with the ERJ's and it would only become more profitable and more feasible with the acquisition of larger RJ's.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 26):
MIA and CLT can work together

In what way? Obviously CLT is good on the domestic side, but MIA and CLT would be very much competing with each other for North-South international traffic.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 26):
CLT works better for connections from smaller US cities to bigger Caribbean and Latin American destinations

...and it would/is consequently lower yielding/less profitable versus southbound int'l traffic flowed over MIA. Again AA already serves a plethora of smaller cities from MIA which would only grow with the addition of better-sized a/c.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 26):
or SDF-SJU

Ironically enough, AA already serves SDF-MIA twice daily.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 26):
Most US-Caribbean itineraries are also shorter via CLT than via MIA.

In what way? Whereas the stage-length of US destinations to CLT may be shorter than to MIA, the stage-length of Caribbean flights from MIA is almost always correspondingly shorter compared to those from CLT.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: AA & US 2012 Potential Merger

Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:02 pm

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 48):
In what way?

You forget how far east most Caribbean islands are. If you draw a straight line from Boston to Antigua or Chicago to Aruba or Nashville to San Juan, that line passes a lot closer to CLT than to MIA.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 48):
Not domestically, but 1-2 daily flights to connect to the international banks is indeed very realistic.

Many domestic cities don't have the southbound bulk to fill a 70 seater or 2 per day to CLT and are not comfortably within 50-seater range.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 48):
Obviously CLT is good on the domestic side, but MIA and CLT would be very much competing with each other for North-South international traffic.

The north-south international traffic is half domestic, no?
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