marcouscg
Topic Author
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:04 am

What About A New 757NGX?

Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:08 pm

I notice and this has been a long discussion for a while that the Boeing 787 is supposedly to replace a bunch of aircraft to which I am not really sure that in the long run it will be effective as some might think. Why not as they have already done with the Boeing 737's make a NGX version so the same with the 757 NGX ??? I would hate to see the "Rocket" for example go in retirement for the AA and replace it eventually sometime with something we may not be happy with. A lot of Aviators and Plane Spotter that I know would find it hard to see something that has made History have to leave just because of its Years in duty...Please share your thoughts to this.
 
User avatar
JBo
Posts: 1615
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:23 am

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:17 pm

Quoting marcouscg (Thread starter):
I would hate to see the "Rocket" for example go in retirement for the AA and replace it eventually sometime with something we may not be happy with. A lot of Aviators and Plane Spotter that I know would find it hard to see something that has made History have to leave just because of its Years in duty...Please share your thoughts to this.

The 707 is gone. The 727 is gone. Eventually the 757 will be, too. It's life.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
marcouscg
Topic Author
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:04 am

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:20 pm

Actually the Boeing 707 is still flying and the Boeing 727 still does to...FED EX and The NATO uses them.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23465
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:20 pm

Quoting marcouscg (Thread starter):
Why not as they have already done with the Boeing 737's make a NGX version so the same with the 757 NGX?

Because there is a market for a 737NGX.

There is no market for a 757NGX.

The A321-200neo and 737-9 will fill almost every mission a 757NGX could and do it cheaper and better. And for the missions it cannot, low-hour / low-cycle 757s are available to handle them.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 5730
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:21 pm

I think the short - really short - answer is that the tooling for the 757 is gone, and it ain't coming back. There will never be another 757.

You could do a search on the forum and find numerous threads where this was hashed and rehashed, so I'll leave it at that for me.

-Dave
-Dave
 
User avatar
seabosdca
Posts: 5054
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:36 pm

The market for reengined 737s and A320-series planes in the coming years is way into the thousands.

The market for a 757NG would be about 200 aircraft, max.

Which would you focus your resources on if you were Boeing?
 
B777LRF
Posts: 1470
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:06 pm

How many times have we had this discussion, and how many times has it been said that the tools are gone; the structure is outdated; the aircraft is heavy and that in 90% of the cases an A321neo or 737-9 will do a much better job for far less money?

Its more dead than yesterdays fish, and it ain't coming back. Ever, so deal with it.

PS
I used to fly 757s and love the machine to bits. But commercial aviation has no time for romance, and sad as it is the long-legged girl with the big b00bs will slowly fade away. Enjoy her while it lasts, 'cause it won't be too many years before it's only freight dogs who'll have the pleasure of RB211 powered narrow body bliss.
From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
 
N62NA
Posts: 4038
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:05 am

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:55 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 8):
How many times have we had this discussion, and how many times has it been said that the tools are gone; the structure is outdated; the aircraft is heavy and that in 90% of the cases an A321neo or 737-9 will do a much better job for far less money?

Perhaps the person that created the topic wasn't aware of those previous discussions.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 5730
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:00 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 9):
Perhaps the person that created the topic wasn't aware of those previous discussions.

True. You don't want to take it out on the OP just because you've seen it all before. However, a quick "757NG" search brought up a handful of threads, including these two:

(by Dec 31 1969 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=4668062&searchid=4668062&s=757ng#ID4668062

(by Dec 31 1969 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=3267177&searchid=3267177&s=757ng#ID3267177

Not sure if they are 100% relevant (I didn't go through them) but clearly they might have answered the questions he had.

Anyhoo...

-Dave
-Dave
 
SXDFC
Posts: 1691
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:07 pm

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:32 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 8):
long-legged girl with the big b00bs will slowly fade away.

You don't need to be at the airport to spot one of those!  

I guess this is the replacement to "When Is NWA Going To Retire the DC9" threads..
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
747400sp
Posts: 3889
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 7:27 pm

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:57 pm

As much as people say that they are getting sick of these 757 update post, there are still people who answer them, so if the somebody do not like this person post, please do not be disrespectful and make a rude comment, just do not reply! We need to stop disrespecting each other on A-net.



As to the topic, sadly Boeing do not have the tooling for 757s anymore. I think it a same to see such a great plane, get replaced, by these under powered 737s/ A32Xs. It seems like the airlines, think cheaper is better, and do not want to buy good planes any more. The 757 was built to replace another good plane, the 727, so it should be replace by a good plane.
 
FLALEFTY
Posts: 372
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:33 am

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:00 am

Interesting topic.

This evening, driving home from work, I viewed a DL 753 turning base to final at MCO and thought, "Those are not too old and have lots of seats, will there be a possible re-engining and life-extension in the future?"

It could happen.......
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23465
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:16 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 9):
Perhaps the person that created the topic wasn't aware of those previous discussions.

Unfortunately, the list of topics that a.net suggests when you preview your new topic doesn't show any of the many topics we've had on this subject...
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:27 am

I do wonder, though, if in ten years or so there will be enough demand for something like a 757/A300/A310. Even if it is not that many units, it could be something EMB/BBD could go after without going head to head with Boeing and Airbus.

The amazing amount of short flights within Asia flying on wide bodies just seems to beg for such an aircraft.

[Edited 2012-01-05 16:28:43]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23465
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:29 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 16):
I do wonder, though, if in ten years or so there will be enough demand for something like a 757/A300/A310. Even if it is not that many units, it could be something EMB/BBD could go after without going head to head with Boeing and Airbus.

I think Boeing and Airbus would love Embraer or Bombardier following such a path - it would surely lead to their financial collapse and it would be one less competitor to deal with.  
 
User avatar
ADent
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:11 pm

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:38 am

There is no new engine in the 757 class. So in addition to making a business case for a 757NGX, you need to convince an engine company or two to invest in a new engine.

the Leap-X is on 3 airframes all about the same thrust level - each of those is expected to sell more than a 757NGX. Why invest in a whole new engine for a small market?



The 737-900/A321 carry the same as a 757, but weigh a lot less. A737-700/A319 has same or better high performance attributes of a 757. The A320Neo and 737-8 (MAX) will be close.

The 737-7 (Max) will be a slow seller - the hot ones will be 737-8 (Max) and 737-9 (Max). So you would need a 757-3 (Max) and maybe later a 757-4 (Max) to jump over the 737-9 Max. That is too long for a single aisle. And there is no engine to power it.
 
747400sp
Posts: 3889
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 7:27 pm

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:43 am

To me, the 757 is to the 737 as the E-jet is to the ERJ, so it is sad to see 757s leaving passenger fleets. In the 90's, the 757, was Boeing fourth largest airliner, so to me, 757s is more than just a narrow body, it's a special plane that is very well liked. Sadly, most well liked planes live short lives, for example L1011s, MD-11s, A340s and 757s. If you want a plane to be successful now at days, make it boring, and your sales will go threw the roof.  
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:20 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
I think Boeing and Airbus would love Embraer or Bombardier following such a path - it would surely lead to their financial collapse and it would be one less competitor to deal with.  

A300 + A310 + B757 = ~2000 units sold. And don't forget, Boeing tried to go short range and high capacity with the 787-3. They ended up pulling the plug, but the fact they went as far as offering the aircraft to customers tell me there is something there. But it may take a dedicated design, not a stretch too far or a shrink too fat.

But I'd give it ~10 years. Too many 767/757 frames out there for cheap that can easily cover this niche for now.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23465
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:36 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 21):
A300 + A310 + B757 = ~2000 units sold.

And when all three launched, they both created a new market and they were the only option to address that market.

Once the 767 launched, the A300 and A310 faded away because the 767 could address that market and was more capable (and probably economical, especially against the A310).

Once the A321 launched, the 757 faded away because the A321 (and later, 737-900ER) could address (most of) that market and was more economical.

And now we have the A321neo and 737-9 being even more economical and the A320neo and 737-8 should be able to get very close to the range of the 757-200, offering a more economical option for the last hill the 757 has been able to hold - TATL missions.

I don't see how a single-model EMB or BBD offering could be competitive against the multiple-model family offerings of Airbus and Boeing.
 
PC12Fan
Posts: 1979
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:50 pm

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:57 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
There is no market for a 757NGX.

Well, there is, but not big enough to justify such a program.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 8):
How many times have we had this discussion,

Many before, and there'll be many again. Hell the websites address will prove that. 
Quoting Stitch (Reply 14):
Perhaps the person that created the topic wasn't aware of those previous discussions.

Unfortunately, the list of topics that a.net suggests when you preview your new topic doesn't show any of the many topics we've had on this subject...

With all due respect to the site, the search capability ain't the best.

Long live the 757!


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mark Abbott

Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23465
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:58 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 23):
Well, there is, but not big enough to justify such a program.

I firmly believe the only airlines that want a new 757 are the fantasy ones we a.net members run.  
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19287
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:08 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 22):
Once the 767 launched, the A300 and A310 faded away because the 767 could address that market and was more capable (and probably economical, especially against the A310).

At least 75% (possibly more) of the 816 A300s and A310s built were ordered AFTER the 767 was launched in July 1978.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23465
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:13 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 25):
At least 75% (possibly more) of the 816 A300s and A310s built were ordered AFTER the 767 was launched in July 1978.

And a good chunk of 767s were ordered and delivered after the A330 was launched.

Still doesn't stop Airbus Aficionados from constantly crowing the A330 killed the 767. *shrug*

And even if the 767 had never existed, the A330 would have killed both families dead.

[Edited 2012-01-05 18:16:22]
 
PlaneAdmirer
Posts: 250
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:39 pm

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:15 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 21):
I firmly believe the only airlines that want a new 757 are the fantasy ones we a.net members run.

Amen. Can this thread now be closed to join all the other 757 (which I too love) threads on this same topic? It's not like there won't be in February.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:17 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 22):
With all due respect to the site, the search capability ain't the best.

If I am unsure whether a thread has been done before rather than relying on the search function on this site I actually do a google search including key words for the subject and 'airliners.net'. 9 times out of 10 it works better than the supposed search function which, frankly, has more bugs than the average windshield.
 
SASMD82
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:44 am

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:32 am

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 16):
Sadly, most well liked planes live short lives, for example L1011s, MD-11s, A340s and 757s.

Yup! But how come? BTW. The 757 has a pretty long live (nearly 30 years now).

Quoting Stitch (Reply 22):
Still doesn't stop Airbus Aficionados from constantly crowing the A330 killed the 767. *shrug*

Ever since I have been at the A-net forum I have never read this.....the only thing I know is that Boeing developped the B767-400ER and that were very low because of the much more modern A330-200 was there. The 767-300ER is smaller so in my humble opinion not a direct competitor. Still the 767 is - amazingly - not dead hence the recent Fedex order. Isn't this btw the same as buying a CD or DVD player whereas MP4 and Bluray players are available?
 
PC12Fan
Posts: 1979
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:50 pm

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:45 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 20):
Well, there is, but not big enough to justify such a program.

I firmly believe the only airlines that want a new 757 are the fantasy ones we a.net members run.

You gotta problem with that?!?! 
Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 24):

Good tip! I'll give it a try on my next endeavor.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
User avatar
SEPilot
Posts: 5020
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:21 pm

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:39 pm

The 757 was overpowered by most standards because of airline demands for it to operate off short runways. Remember, when it was designed there were far fewer options available. With all of the alternative planes available now the demand for a plane with all of the performance of the 757 reduces its appeal substantially; basically to airlines wanting either its range or its ability to lift a large payload off a short runway; for every other application there is a more economical plane available. Couple that with the non-existence of a suitable new technology engine and you shoot your economic viability full of holes, either for a revival of production or an engine retrofit. Bear in mind that there has been to the best of my knowledge only one successful engine retrofit where a new engine was mounted to an old airframe, and that was the DC-8. There were a number of very special circumstances involved, including an available engine perfect for the job, an extraordinarily rugged airframe, enough airframes available to justify it, and the manufacturer willing to cooperate because they had no directly competing product. None of those factors exist for a re-engining of the 757.

[Edited 2012-01-06 07:53:17]
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
User avatar
notaxonrotax
Posts: 972
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:29 pm

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:49 pm

Most Over Discussed Anet Topics-Av,Non-Av,Mil,Site (by tugger Oct 31 2011 in Site Related)

Reply 4.


Anyways, I am in a minority but I think the 757 is not good looking and is too high on her heels..........somebody once described it as a baby Giraffe. I will not miss her.......but I am sure a lot of you folks will.

I will miss MD11.........which I know some of you loath.

No Tax On Rotax
For anybody that happens to be wondering:"yes, owning your own aircraft is a 100% worth it!"
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3444
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:29 pm

Quoting NOTAXONROTAX (Reply 28):
I will miss MD11.........which I know some of you loath

Heavens I agree, beautiful aircraft *unless* it's cartwheeling upside down in something of a fireball. That's not a good start to one's day. Anyhoo won't stop me catching a KLM MD11 before they get retired.
 
N62NA
Posts: 4038
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:05 am

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:39 pm

Quoting PlaneAdmirer (Reply 23):
Amen. Can this thread now be closed to join all the other 757 (which I too love) threads on this same topic?

Whenever I read comments like this, I just shake my head in wonderment.

If you are so agitated by a topic that has been discussed in the past being discussed again, don't read the topic. You contribute nothing to the topic by complaining, and, believe it or not, there are people who find an ongoing discussion of a particular topic to be of interest, and with new members coming to the site, it provides the new members with an opportunity to express an opinion on one of these topics for the first time.

Comments like yours also have the effect of intimidating others from posting new topics, lest they be hammered for inadvertently posting something that has been discussed before.
 
ukoverlander
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 10:57 pm

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:52 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 16):
Sadly, most well liked planes live short lives, for example L1011s, MD-11s, A340s and 757s. If you want a plane to be successful now at days, make it boring, and your sales will go threw the roof.

If you want a plane to be successful these days it has to be economically viable. We can all wax lyrical and make nostalgic platitudes about these old birds but the truth is they've had their day in the sun. For A or B to build (and keep building) an aircraft these days there must be a sound economic platform and a very real world demand - there is no room for them to take a romaticised, misty eyed view of aviation (leave that to the airlines with their 'retro' paint jobs). That's the cold hard reality of commerical aircraft manufacturing these days.

Any chance of a 'Spruce Goose Neo' anyone with winglets?
 
User avatar
SEPilot
Posts: 5020
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:21 pm

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:09 pm

Quoting ukoverlander (Reply 31):
Any chance of a 'Spruce Goose Neo' anyone with winglets?

Well, since the only person ever to fly the Spruce Goose reportedly commented afterward that it was a death trap, I would say it is rather unlikely.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
holzmann
Posts: 496
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:43 pm

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:26 pm

Like many, I too have some sort of connection with the 757 and don't want to see it go.

I personally believe the 757-200ER with sharklets to be the best looking commercial a/c flying today. Very unique nose/front gear configuration.
 
FoxRomeo
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:51 pm

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:22 pm

It's NG. There's no such aircraft as 737NGX......... The NGX is a simulation.

  
  
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9606
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:42 pm

I've said it before, but will again. The range and growth from the A320 and 737NG killed the 757 program. It took away about 90% of the 757 market. The 737-800 has lower CASM than the 757 and also lower capacity. The airlines that ordered the 757 are the ones that chase low CASM low Capacity airplanes because it gives them flexibility to operate smaller routes, match capacity to demand and increase frequency.

The remaining 757 market is a small niche that is not big enough for Airbus or Boeing to chase after. There aren't enough routes with 160-220 seat capacity or in the 2500 - 3500 mile range to justify the 10 Billion in development costs. It's a genuine market with smaller transatlantic routes, North America - South America routes and Europe - Middle East. However it isn't big enough to justify designing a new airplane and new engine. There is far more money to be made in the 140-180 seat 0 - 2500 mile range or 220 - 300 seat 2500 - 6000 mile range. With the emphasis being on the 777 developments, it appears they are more interested in that larger market than they are in the niche that the 757 left.

Boeing in particular chases margins and not market share. Their goal is to earn the most profit and not sell every airplane to every customer. As of now, they are successful in doing that as they are the most profitable aircraft manufacturer, as they are slightly ahead of Lockheed Martin and far ahead of EADS in terms of total profit although their profit margin is less than Lockheed Martin.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
packcheer
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:28 pm

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:56 pm

I agree with everyone so far.

But, I think that in the future the demand for a narrowbody to do long work will be needed.

The company that can figure out a light, narrowbody, with a long range will most likely have a good seller on their hands. It may not be the 10,000 aircraft wonder that the 737 and A320 are becoming, but it may be good for a couple thousand copies where BBD or EMB may be interested.

Operating Europe to North America, North to South America, etc, or Asian routes is the part where the current version of the Narrow bodies start to encounter trouble.

Maybe something a touch smaller than the 757, a touch less power, but a lot lighter to provide the efficiency needed would work well. Maybe with two engine options with one engine optimized for endurance, one optimized for short ups and downs.

That's every engineer's dream, I know, but there seems to be an area between current in production narrow bodies and the smallest wide bodies where range is the key factor. The right size planes can't handle the range, the range capable planes are too heavy and too much capacity for many routes.


A narrow body sister to the 787.
Things that fly, Girls and Planes...
 
U2380
Posts: 246
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:11 pm

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:59 pm

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 9):
by these under powered 737s/ A32Xs

They're clearly not under-powered, they wouldn't be certified if they were.
What they are is 'correctly-powered' as opposed to 'over-powered'

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 10):
It seems like the airlines, think cheaper is better, and do not want to buy good planes any more.

For all but a handful of missions the A320 and 737 are the 757's replacement. I do believe they are the two most successful (solely) commercial aircraft programs ever. I find it hard to believe they are not 'good'.

[Edited 2012-01-06 14:02:05]
 
ukoverlander
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 10:57 pm

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:33 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 10):
these under powered 737s/ A32Xs. It seems like the airlines, think cheaper is better, and do not want to buy good planes any more

"under powered"....."cheaper is better"........"good planes"???

- How are the 737 and A320 families "underpowered"?

- "Cheaper is better" than what exactly - unecessarily more expensive? Why wouldn't it be? It's not only less expensive but vastly more economical the great majority of the time.

- What are you saying, that a 757 is a "Good plane" and the 737 and A320 series are not "good" planes?

There just seems to be a lot of subjectivity here and not a great deal of substance.
 
ghifty
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:12 pm

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:42 pm

757NG, as much as I want it (which doesn't even matter..), will never happen.

Boeing has been slimming down it's offerings as it's probably more cost-effective to have less families. I don't think they're still following suit with their "Yellowstone" project, but it seems like in the future they only intend to have 3 family offerings. 737MAX and whatever RS they choose, 787, and 777NG, leaving anything smaller (or larger) to BBD/EMB and Airbus.

Airbus is puttering along just fine, maybe even better than fine, with "just" three families, A320, A330, and A380, that do a "best-fit" of all the niches and markets. If all the Boeing airplanes that performed good and satisfied niche markets were still around Boeing would probably be offering 717NG, 737MAX, 757NG, 767NG, 777, 787, and 747-8. As nice as that would be.



[Edited 2012-01-06 14:47:32]
Fly Delta (Wid)Jets
 
User avatar
hOMSaR
Posts: 1504
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:47 am

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:22 am

This topic should get a semi-permanent thread that just gets a new number every time it gets too big (like "Such and such aviation #4", or "A380 production thread #19").

That way, it would be easier to keep all the discussion together, with all of the explanations and facts and such easily found within the thread.
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word.
There is no 787-800, nor 787-900 or 747-800. It's 787-8, 787-9, and 747-8.
A321neoLR is also unnecessary. It's simply A321LR.
Airplanes don't have isles, they have aisles.
 
User avatar
DarkSnowyNight
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:59 pm

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:59 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 6):

How many times have we had this discussion, and how many times has it been said that the tools are gone;

Who cares? I've been reading these for years, and am not bored or annoyed in the least. Done or no, this topic and others like it are the reason this forum exists. I'll still feel this way next Tuesday, by the way, when someone else asks...

Quoting N62NA (Reply 30):
You contribute nothing to the topic by complaining, and, believe it or not, there are people who find an ongoing discussion of a particular topic to be of interest, and with new members coming to the site, it provides the new members with an opportunity to express an opinion on one of these topics for the first time.

Agreed. Even if one is not new, there are occasionally new insights that come up as well. I do not feel my time was wasted.

Quoting homsar (Reply 40):
This topic should get a semi-permanent thread that just gets a new number every time it gets too big (like "Such and such aviation #4", or "A380 production thread #19").

I do think this might not be such a bad idea either. Would also be cool (just for numerical art sake) to have a 'lifetime' tracking of the replies. I'll bet it would get into the thousands.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 35):
The 737-800 has lower CASM than the 757 and also lower capacity. The airlines that ordered the 757 are the ones that chase low CASM low Capacity airplanes because it gives them flexibility to operate smaller routes, match capacity to demand and increase frequency.

And the 757-300 had lower still CASM then the 738. There's a lot more to this game then just that one very small dimension.

The second half of your statement is far more relevant. A 738 can get into more marketspaces more easily than a 757 can, and that's what really helped it out.

Quoting ghifty (Reply 39):
If all the Boeing airplanes that performed good and satisfied niche markets were still around Boeing would probably be offering 717NG, 737MAX, 757NG, 767NG, 777, 787, and 747-8. As nice as that would be.

Boeing is still offering the 767 and 748. Their respective markets are just too niche to register here. But they still make decent money for Boeing without tying up much manufacturing space.

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 16):
Sadly, most well liked planes live short lives, for example L1011s, MD-11s, A340s and 757s.


The MD-11 & 757 are not short lived. Going by your profile, many of those (still flying) are as old as you.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 17):
or a shrink too fat.


Lol. This may get plagairized.
Be A Perfectionst, You're Nothing If You're Just Another; Something Material, This Isn't Personal...
 
User avatar
hOMSaR
Posts: 1504
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:47 am

RE: What About A New 757NGX?

Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:38 pm

Quoting darksnowynight (Reply 41):
Quoting 747400sp (Reply 16):
Sadly, most well liked planes live short lives, for example L1011s, MD-11s, A340s and 757s.


The MD-11 & 757 are not short lived. Going by your profile, many of those (still flying) are as old as you.

Perhaps he was referring to a short production run?

But even still, it's hard to really say that an aircraft's production run was particularly long or short, since it depends on your benchmark.

Based on a Wikipedia search (with all of the disclaimers associated with that), the MD-11 had the shortest run (from first to last delivery), being 10 years (1990 to 2000). The L-1011 had 12 years (1972 to 1984). The A340 had a decent 18 years, and the 757 ran for 21 years.

In comparison, the DC-8's run was 14 years, the 707 (non-military) was 21 years, the 727 was "only" 20 years, the DC-10 was 17 years. Even the MD-80 fell short of the 20-year mark (though, if you want to count everything from the DC-9-10 through the 717-200, that does change things a bit).

Again, all those data are from Wikipedia, so take it for what it's worth, but they sound like they're in the ballpark of reality.

There were many planes with much shorter production runs than the 757 (Convair jets, the various European short-range jets before Airbus was relevant).

If one is comparing the 757's run to that of the 737 or 747 family (from the -100 series through to today's offerings), then yes the 757 had a short run. But compared to many of the other types out there over the years, it's probably more middle of the pack.
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word.
There is no 787-800, nor 787-900 or 747-800. It's 787-8, 787-9, and 747-8.
A321neoLR is also unnecessary. It's simply A321LR.
Airplanes don't have isles, they have aisles.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos