washingtonian
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:11 pm

Transaero is set to begin 773 service on DME-JFK on February 27, initially on 1 of 2 weekly frequencies but on both frequenices a few weeks later. As far as I know, this is the first time a 773 has operated at JFK. Of course JFK has had many 77Ws since Air France began service in 2004, but I believe this is the first original 773.

I believe LAX or some other West Coast cities had 773 service in the last decade. Is this correct? What airlines/routes? Either way, exciting to see "old" 773s at JFK soon!


Source for DME-JFK-DME flights: Sabre and Amadeus

[Edited 2012-01-10 14:29:57 by SA7700]
 
LHRFlyer
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:12 pm

What about BA? I think it may have operated a 773 to JFK?
 
mogandoCI
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:13 pm

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 1):
What about BA? I think it may have operated a 773 to JFK?

I think the OP meant 777-300A, not the 777-300ER (aka 77W) that is all over JFK.

Other than Asian carriers and EK, the 773A is a rare sight.
 
LGWflyer
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:15 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 2):

Other than Asian carriers and EK, the 773A is a rare sight.

I cannot remember exactly but what about Air India... or are they just EWR?
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roseflyer
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:19 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Thread starter):
I believe LAX or some other West Coast cities had 773 service in the last decade. Is this correct?

I don't think any airline that ordered the 777-300 is within range of any US airport until Transaero picked up some used frames. All the 777-300 operators were based in Asia. While having transatlantic legs, it didn't have transpacific legs except for the shortest of routes. I don't think it ever operated to LAX.
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DfwRevolution
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:26 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 4):
I don't think any airline that ordered the 777-300 is within range of any US airport until Transaero picked up some used frames. All the 777-300 operators were based in Asia. While having transatlantic legs, it didn't have transpacific legs except for the shortest of routes. I don't think it ever operated to LAX.

KE has flown the 773A into LAX


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United_fan
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:26 pm

I didnt think a 777-300A could make Moscow to JFK. Guess I was wrong.
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Eagleboy
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:30 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 2):
I think the OP meant 777-300A, not the 777-300ER (aka 77W) that is all over JFK.

Any visual clues to differentiate for a casual spotter?

Love the look of the B777-300 (usually spot the BA ones at LHR)
 
DfwRevolution
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:31 pm

Quoting United_fan (Reply 6):
I didnt think a 777-300A could make Moscow to JFK. Guess I was wrong.

Just for reference, the design range of the 777-300A is essentially equivalent to an A330-300

773A - 6,005 nm
A333 - 5,850 nm

The great circle distance from SVO-JFK is 4,051 nm. Should not pose a problem for a 773A.

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 7):

Any visual clues to differentiate for a casual spotter?

Love the look of the B777-300 (usually spot the BA ones at LHR)

Wingtips and GE90s. No 773As were selected with the GE90, and it is the exclusive engine of the 77W.

[Edited 2012-01-09 14:32:52]
 
LGWflyer
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:33 pm

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 8):
The great circle distance from SVO-JFK is 4,051 nm. Should not pose a problem for a 773A.

Doesn't Delta use a 763 sometimes a 400 on the SVO route from JFK? What is the 767 range compared to a 773A?
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lightsaber
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:39 pm

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 5):
KE has flown the 773A into LAX

  

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 8):
Just for reference, the design range of the 777-300A is essentially equivalent to an A330-300

773A - 6,005 nm
A333 - 5,850 nm

Nitpick, the A333 only acheived that range with the latest MTOW increase a few years ago.

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 8):
The great circle distance from SVO-JFK is 4,051 nm. Should not pose a problem for a 773A.

Very true that the distance is nicely within 773 range.

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 8):
No 773As were selected with the GE90, and it is the exclusive engine of the 77W.

Amazing market change with that exclusive... (Well... and PW4098 botch...)

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skipness1E
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:50 pm

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 7):
Any visual clues to differentiate for a casual spotter?

The lack of the enormous engines of the B777-300ER, it's odd that the B777-300 looks "wrong"as the engines appear to be too small as we're so used to the more common B77W.
 
PC12Fan
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:39 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 11):
The lack of the enormous engines of the B777-300ER, it's odd that the B777-300 looks "wrong" as the engines appear to be too small as we're so used to the more common B77W.

I was about to say the same thing. It does look a bit odd. Nice, but odd.
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Viscount724
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:02 am

Quoting United_fan (Reply 6):
I didnt think a 777-300A could make Moscow to JFK. Guess I was wrong.
Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 8):
Quoting United_fan (Reply 6):
I didnt think a 777-300A could make Moscow to JFK. Guess I was wrong.

Just for reference, the design range of the 777-300A is essentially equivalent to an A330-300

773A - 6,005 nm
A333 - 5,850 nm

The great circle distance from SVO-JFK is 4,051 nm. Should not pose a problem for a 773A.

TG used the 773 BKK-ATH (4287 nm) for quite a while. I believe SQ also used the type SIN-AKL at one time (4540 nm).
 
jfk777
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:56 pm

What is so exciting about a 777-300A coming to JFK ? Tons of 777 come to JFK daily, unless a person REALLY knows the difference its no big deal.
 
GT4EZY
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:07 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):
What is so exciting about a 777-300A coming to JFK ? Tons of 777 come to JFK daily, unless a person REALLY knows the difference its no big deal.

I was thinking that myself. Aesthetically, the 773 and 77W are very much the same aircraft give or take one or two differences.
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Eagleboy
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:13 pm

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 8):
Wingtips and GE90s. No 773As were selected with the GE90, and it is the exclusive engine of the 77W.
Quoting skipness1E (Reply 11):
The lack of the enormous engines of the B777-300ER, it's odd that the B777-300 looks "wrong"as the engines appear to be too small as we're so used to the more common B77W.

Thanks for that. I look at the aircraft fuselage, never really pay attention to engines so I wouldn't have spotted a -300 from a -300ER!
 
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:27 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 4):
I don't think any airline that ordered the 777-300 is within range of any US airport

Korean Air had scheduled B773 service to HNL a few years ago. Since then, they've just about used every widebody in their fleet to HNL except for the A300, B77W, and A380.

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 7):
Any visual clues to differentiate for a casual spotter?

As mentioned earlier, no B773As were equipped with GE90s, so if you happened to see a B773 taking off without the roar of the GE90s, you're seeing (hearing) a B773A.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 2):
Other than Asian carriers and EK, the 773A is a rare sight.

Yup. Funny that all my flights on the B773 were on the non-ER models. Hope to get on a B77W soon, but I'm no rush!  
 
skipness1E
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:28 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):
What is so exciting about a 777-300A coming to JFK ? Tons of 777 come to JFK daily, unless a person REALLY knows the difference its no big deal.

Try asking the same question everytime BA send one of their B77Ws somewhere new, the locals go into meltdown over a B777 that's a wee bit longer than the usual. The B777-300 is relatively rare, indeed the only ones we only get one a day at LHR and probably not for much longer. Of course some of us do know the difference, just saying...  
 
Thenoflyzone
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:31 pm

Quoting LGWflyer (Reply 9):
Doesn't Delta use a 763 sometimes a 400 on the SVO route from JFK? What is the 767 range compared to a 773A?

Similar.

B763ER - 5990 nm
B764 - 5625nm
B773A - 6005 nm

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2012-01-10 06:32:10]
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jfk777
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:47 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 18):
Try asking the same question everytime BA send one of their B77Ws somewhere new, the locals go into meltdown over a B777 that's a wee bit longer than the usual.

Aficionados go photograph BA 77W because they are rare and have seen hundreds of BA 777-200ER by now. The 77W could be in huge nimbers in BA's fleet for 20 years or it could in small numbers for 5 years until A359 come.
 
PC12Fan
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:03 pm

That raises a curious question for me though. On the "shorter" legs, which would be more efficient? The 300 or 300ER?
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SuperBus
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:03 pm

9W have also serviced 777-300ERs into JFK before switching over to A330s.

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nipoel123
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:19 pm

Quoting SuperBus (Reply 22):
9W have also serviced 777-300ERs into JFK before switching over to A330s.

If I'm not mistaking, we're talking about the 'standard' 773 here, not the ER version.

The 773 is basically a stretched 772(ER?), right?
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747400sp
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:57 pm

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 5):
KE has flown the 773A into LAX

I thinking the same thing, you just beat me to it.
 
AirGAbon
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:58 pm

Yes, this is an event as 773 has never been operated on any transatlantic route and 773 has never been operated by any European airline.

So yes, this an event a 773 flying between Europe and USA. And operated by a European airline (and Russian, even better!).

For sure DME-JFK is among the longest 773 flights.
 
Thenoflyzone
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:04 pm

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 21):
That raises a curious question for me though. On the "shorter" legs, which would be more efficient? The 300 or 300ER?

Depends, the 773A's operating empty weight is 16,200 lbs less than the 77W. That being said, the 77W can haul an extra 30,000lbs the 773A cannot (MLW comparison).

So if it's a shorter leg, and cargo intensive, then the 77W might be useful and more efficient. If you're just filling it with drunk tourists going from Tokyo to Phuket, then the 773A might do the job as well, if not better.

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 25):
For sure DME-JFK is among the longest 773 flights.

Yes, but not by much. Current longest flight by a 773A is TG from MEL to BKK, coming in at 7,315 km. DME-JFK comes in at 7,566km.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2012-01-10 10:14:04]
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:13 pm

I'm actually a bit surprised that the 77W has been such a runaway hit while the 773 only had moderate success. How many 77W's fly only missions that could have been just as well (and probably more economically) served by the 773? Aren't the vast majority of flights well within the range of the 773 (which is, after all, quite respectable)? Or did the 77W offer efficiency gains even on shorter routes so that it beats the economics of the 773 on similar missions?
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Thenoflyzone
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:17 pm

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 27):
How many 77W's fly only missions that could have been just as well (and probably more economically) served by the 773?

i'd say over 90%.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 27):
Aren't the vast majority of flights well within the range of the 773 (which is, after all, quite respectable)?

Yes, 6,000nm range is very respectable, considering only a handful of ULH flights in the world are longer than that.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 27):
Or did the 77W offer efficiency gains even on shorter routes so that it beats the economics of the 773 on similar missions?

Most likely. Or else why would it be such a hit, while, as you said, the 773 only sold 60 frames. I think the extra 30,000lbs at landing makes a big difference in the long run.

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SEPilot
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:26 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 28):
I think the extra 30,000lbs at landing makes a big difference in the long run.

How much of that is additional payload and how much is structure?
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bmacleod
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:26 pm

Just to clarify, the 777-300 has smaller fuel tanks or a worse fuel-burn ratio than the newer 77W?
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Thenoflyzone
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:31 pm

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 29):
How much of that is additional payload and how much is structure?

I guess half is structure. 16,200lbs, based on OEW comparison.

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 30):
Just to clarify, the 777-300 has smaller fuel tanks or a worse fuel-burn ratio than the newer 77W?

The 773ER can carry 2,600 US gallons more fuel than its older brother.

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PlymSpotter
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:04 pm

Hasn't EK substituted a 77W with them on the DXB-HAM-JFK route before? I seem to recall being told that did happen once or twice.


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SEPilot
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:09 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 31):
Quoting SEPilot (Reply 29):
How much of that is additional payload and how much is structure?

I guess half is structure. 16,200lbs, based on OEW comparison.

Unless engine or aerodynamic efficiency is significantly increased, logic says that the 773 should have better economics than the 77W for missions within its range. So are the GE90-115's significantly more efficient than their predecessors? Did the raked wingtips and other (seemingly minor) changes make that much difference to the aerodynamic performance?
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
theobcman
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:54 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 18):

Just out of interest what is the only one a day 773 we get at LHR - I'm not aware.
 
raggi
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:12 pm

Quoting theobcman (Reply 34):
Just out of interest what is the only one a day 773 we get at LHR - I'm not aware.

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contrails15
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:15 pm

So what 777 was Transaero using before to JFK? They go off and on with their 747 and 777.
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thrufru
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:17 pm

I flew on a 773 of Qatar Airways into JFK several years ago.
 
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seabosdca
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JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:26 pm

Quoting contrails15 (Reply 36):
So what 777 was Transaero using before to JFK?

Their 772ER. They are just now getting the 773As, which are ex-SQ.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 33):
So are the GE90-115's significantly more efficient than their predecessors? Did the raked wingtips and other (seemingly minor) changes make that much difference to the aerodynamic performance?

WingedMigrator's old charts indicated that the 77L, despite its extra weight, started outperforming the 77E at around 5000 nm mission length. Others have argued that his conclusions were too generous to the 77E and that the critical distance is between 2000 and 4000 nm. The reason was partly superior engine efficiency (the GE90-115B is a further development of the original GE90) and partly airframe improvements, particularly the raked wingtips.

I see no reason this would not also be true (in principle; the critical mission length might be a bit less or more) for the 77W vs. the 773. Certainly 77W sales suggest that the 77W is the superior option for the vast majority of airlines, even those that only fly missions within 773 range.

[Edited 2012-01-10 14:27:26]
 
theobcman
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RE: JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:37 pm

Quoting raggi (Reply 35):

EK - Of course. Good man thanks
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:49 pm

Quoting thrufru (Reply 37):

I flew on a 773 of Qatar Airways into JFK several years ago.

A 777-300ER yes, but not a 777-300 standard.


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jfk777
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RE: JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:26 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 40):
A 777-300ER yes, but not a 777-300 standard.

Why celebrate the arrival at JFK of a 777-300(non ER). The 77W is the standard longer 777. I am going to be post #41 of this topic. We have better things to discuss then 777-300 to JFK. I am for starting Cathay's use of 777 to JFK ?
 
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RE: JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:36 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 41):
Why celebrate the arrival at JFK of a 777-300(non ER). The 77W is the standard longer 777. I am going to be post #41 of this topic. We have better things to discuss then 777-300 to JFK. I am for starting Cathay's use of 777 to JFK ?

It's older and rarer - and likely to be retired sooner. For a plane spotter, photographer and airframe collector it is worth celebrating. When you are trying to get as many airframes photographed, in as many different liveries as possible and added to your database as I am, then it's good information to store in the back of my head when it comes to chasing regos/airframes. I book whole journeys just to get particular types flown on or photographed.
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RE: JFK To Receive First 773A Service In A Few Weeks

Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:40 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 41):
Why celebrate the arrival at JFK of a 777-300(non ER). The 77W is the standard longer 777.

I don't, personally.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 42):
It's older and rarer - and likely to be retired sooner. For a plane spotter, photographer and airframe collector it is worth celebrating. When you are trying to get as many airframes photographed, in as many different liveries as possible and added to your database as I am, then it's good information to store in the back of my head when it comes to chasing regos/airframes. I book whole journeys just to get particular types flown on or photographed.

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