LAXintl
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Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:19 pm

Struggling Malaysian Airlines for the summer 2012 season will adjust its sole US services to operate via Tokyo Narita instead of the long time Taipei stop.

Some might remember that Tokyo used to be one of the original stops on the way to Los Angeles when Malaysian launched trans Pacific services in 1980s.


Effective March 25, 2012

Mon/Wed/Fri/Sun
MH092 KUL-NRT 1100-1910 772
MH092 NRT-LAX 2040-1510 772

MH093 LAX-NRT 1715-2030+1 772
MH093 NRT-KUL 2205-0430+2 772


New schedule avail in GDS.
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as739x
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):

Do you think this is a strong move for them? A lot more competition via NRT.
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LAXintl
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:35 pm

Frankly what I think they are doing is consolidating their network – so they can route LA over existing Tokyo services. Maybe help improve both.

I see that KUL-TPE becomes simply a daily 738 market after this.


But you are right – LAX-NRT is much more crowded with 7 airlines (AA, DL, JL, KE, NH, SQ, UA) already versus LAX-TPE with 2. I’m sure MH will most likely become the consolidator favorite on the route with bargain basement fares, so I doubt they will make much money on the switch.

I also dont know why they don't plan to do something with AA now that they are entering OW.
The LAX timings are pretty terrible and wont allow for much more than Western US connections. If they had a traditional LAX morning arrival they could atleast connect onto AA’s before noon Central US/ East Coast activity.
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chepos
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:50 pm

Not only are the times terrible but this is a less than daily service. The reason they don't drop LAX altogether is for prestige reasons, how profitable can this long thin route be. Hard to imagine that at one point they tried to make EWR work.

Regards,

Chepos
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LAXintl
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:35 pm

Here is a news story about the LAX change, and some other network adjustments.

Funny they push the change as "great news" and highlight the 33% frequency increase going from 3 to 4x weekly in LA.   

link:
http://www.theborneopost.com/2012/01...l-long-haul-network-from-march-25/

=
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dellatorre
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:38 pm

I don't give LAX service two years to be chopped!
 
XA744
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:09 pm

Quoting chepos (Reply 3):
Not only are the times terrible but this is a less than daily service

Sad to see how much the airline has downsized...

LAX, at some point in history, used to be 10 X for MAS...those were the good old days !!!


Best regards
No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
 
yeogeo
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:41 pm

Although there's no timetable for its passage, Taiwan is in fast-track position in the Visa Waiver Program for the U.S., the only country currently in the "nominated" category. The timing for Malaysian moving out may not be the most well-timed. An increase in Taiwan-US passengers is likely given the upgrade in status.

Still, the re-routing through Narita may be short-lived; I have to agree with Dellatorre:

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 5):
I don't give LAX service two years to be chopped!

yeo
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lightsaber
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:48 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
LAX-NRT is much more crowded with 7 airlines (AA, DL, JL, KE, NH, SQ, UA) already versus LAX-TPE with 2.

7 competitors? That will be a bloodbath!

SQ and NH will do well in the premium cabin, so I do not worry for them.
KE seems to be a favorite for 'discount premium,' so they fill that niche.

So MH is going to compete with DL (who has a small hub), JL (local business contracts), UA (small hub too), and AA (strong US side connections) for the remainder?

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 5):
I don't give LAX service two years to be chopped!

I doubt they'll survive long enough for Skymark to acquire their first A380s (2014); certainly not until Skymark has enough A380s to fly to LAX (2018?).

Lightsaber
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vheca
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:32 am

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Some might remember that Tokyo used to be one of the original stops on the way to Los Angeles when Malaysian launched trans Pacific services in 1980s.
Quoting XA744 (Reply 6):
Sad to see how much the airline has downsized...

LAX, at some point in history, used to be 10 X for MAS...those were the good old days !!!




I remember these flights as kids with the DC-10 and 747!

Sad to see this great carrier struggle...Used to love flying them!

Cheers

Vheca
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Carpethead
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:32 am

At least MAS will get a little more fleet utilization out of this schedule and less parking fees to NRT.
The inbound aircraft on the KUL-NRT overnights at NRT before operating to KUL to following day.
Other carriers in SE Asia, typically turnaround at NRT in a couple of hours.
 
AR385
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:59 am

Quoting XA744 (Reply 6):
LAX, at some point in history, used to be 10 X for MAS...those were the good old days !!!

Yes. And the Mexican Government was the first to screw them, to protect a now dead airline.
 
vincewy
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:39 am

Wouldn't LAX-KIX-KUL make sense? No competition, no curfew.
 
777MAS
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:41 am

Quoting as739x (Reply 1):
Do you think this is a strong move for them? A lot more competition via NRT.

Few people seem to discuss the fact that their FFP is so very limited. They have so FEW airline partners (esp. being not in an alliance until recently), and since a US-Southeast Asia trip has the words MILEAGE RUN written all over it, how many people would fly with them if FFP mileage (and attaining/maintaining elite status) is going to be one of the considerations?

Quoting XA744 (Reply 6):
Sad to see how much the airline has downsized...

It just drives home the point that in global business it's a brutal world out there. The Malaysian government and MH's management apparently are still in the process of figuring that out, and we all know the world isn't going to wait in the meantime...  
Quoting yeogeo (Reply 7):
Taiwan is in fast-track position in the Visa Waiver Program for the U.S.,

The fact that Malaysia isn't on the VWP only serves to highlight that demand for travel to the US from Malaysians themselves isn't going to be fantastic at all. (It's such a costly and demanding process to apply for a US visa) Compare this to Singapore, which is on the VWP.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 8):
So MH is going to compete with DL (who has a small hub), JL (local business contracts), UA (small hub too), and AA (strong US side connections) for the remainder?

It's not just competing with these guys on NRT-LAX and their respective hubs in LAX. Even in Malaysia DL, AA and UA are competing for Malaysia-originating pax - these guys could sell at levels that could be even cheaper than MH. Sure they don't fly to KUL, but the ticket they sell you includes a segment like KUL-SIN or KUL-HKG on another airline. And they have an advantage in that they can sell you a through fare to, say, the East Coast - e.g. EWR, ORD, Orlando, for MYR3699 (UA). With MH, which only flies to LAX, you'd have to fork out a whole lot more to get to your destination beyond LAX.
 
alangirvan
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:23 am

Assuming that Malaysia Airlines does progress with the intention to join OneWorld, it would be good to plan services to the US in co operation with OneWorld partners. All they need to do is fly to good connecting cities - and NRT is one of them. They would operate KUL-NRT as an air bridge, with JAL (JAL might just codeshare on MH flights between Malaysia and Japan, and not operate any of their own services.) Then they feed into the OneWorld hub at NRT and codeshare on JAL or AA services to the USA. They will get access to cities like Dallas, which gives a shorter journey than if MH carries the passenger KUl-NRT-LAX and uses AA for LAX-DFW.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:52 pm

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 5):
I don't give LAX service two years to be chopped!

Frankly it should probably have been cut at the last near death experience MH had IIRC circa 2008.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 8):
7 competitors? That will be a bloodbath!

Yeah, do you know of any international long-haul market now with 8 airlines !

Quoting vincewy (Reply 12):
Wouldn't LAX-KIX-KUL make sense? No competition, no curfew.

Yeah KIX would atleast be something original, however history would not be on their side to succeed either. Many folks have tried KIX-LAX over the years including 3rd nation airlines like Thai.

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 14):
it would be good to plan services to the US in co operation with OneWorld partners.

   Yes MH should look to utilize and leverage alliance partnerships the best it can.

For the America's it should work to maximize JAL and Cathay connections imo. Or if it insist on maintaining a LAX link, atleast schedule the flight in a manner which connects well with AA services across the nation, especially to the East Coast.
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planereality
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:44 pm

After a quick glance, MH fares look to be almost double some of the others mentioned for the LAX-NRT portion for late spring 2012
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flyingalex
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:42 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 11):
Yes. And the Mexican Government was the first to screw them, to protect a now dead airline.

Can you elaborate on this comment? I have no idea what you mean.
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lightsaber
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:07 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
Yeah, do you know of any international long-haul market now with 8 airlines !

"Inconceivable" is really the only word that comes to mind. I'm aware of short haul markets that (once) had that level of competition. With any market, the rule is "don't be #3." How the heck does one compete at a frequency that will doom them to 8th place?

I'm only vaguely familiar with the NRT-LAX market, but here is my further perception of 'who owns what niche:'
NH: Does very well with premium and business travel.
DL: Has their NRT hub and fligths to multiple US hubs. Historical presence in Japan with US companies/US government contracts.
AA/JL: They have the oneworld alliance as well as JL's local contracts
UA: Small NRT feed as well as a strong historical presence in Japan with US companies/US government plus *A.
KE: It is my understanding they've done well NRT-LAX as a low cost vendor. I assume they have changed strategies with the A380? (I'm asking as I do not know.)
SQ: Also has a premium niche. They seem well liked on the LAX side of the flight...

I'm just not seeing *any* niche for MH left open.

Lightsaber
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MAS777
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:16 pm

lots of negative thoughts here but i can see that moving the Transpac route to operate via NRT does have some benefits.

MH92/93 is likely to operate with JL and AA flight numbers once integrated into Oneworld so these flights could yield a little more than currently operating via TPE which has always been a low-yield market for MH (between TPE-LAX).

What hasn't been finalised yet is whether this would also see an increase in KUL-NRT flights overall - which again would help improve connections via NRT for other transpacific routes (with JL and AA) across to other US cities.

MH has always used LAX as its primary US port - and will want to stay in the US market for the conceivable future - so i suspect this option is the lesser of two evils (TPE or NRT) and gives it some hope of perhaps even increasing frequencies if performance improves.
 
AR385
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:18 pm

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 17):
Can you elaborate on this comment? I have no idea what you mean.

When MH started flying to MEX, the route was KUL-TPE or NRT (I can´t recall)-LAX-MEX. The only reason the route worked was because the Mexican authorities gave MH 5th freedom rights on the LAX-MEX-LAX sectors. It was very profitable for them because you could fly an excellent F and C service relativley cheaply as the sector is only slightly more than 3 hrs. Those two classes were always full of Mexicans going / coming to / from LAX on MH F and C.

Since MX couldn´t compete, they complained to the authorities that MH was engaging in poaching and dumping practices and requested that MH´s 5th freedom between MEX and LAX was revoked.

They were, and the route lost its profitability and soon after MH quit flying to MEX altogether.
 
chepos
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:38 am

As a side note, completely unrelated to the topic did MH have Spanish speaking crews on the LAX-MEX-LAX runs. It would be interesting to hear Spanish speaking crew members on MAS. I guess the same would go for when EZE was served.
Anyhow in the long run, whether the Mexican govt. would have interfered or not I doubt MEX would have been around today. As you say the sold F and C for cheap, you can easily fill a plane between LAX and MEX but if you are MH I'm sure they were not filling the plane with high yielding pax. KUL-TPE (or NRT for that matter)- LAX-MEX I'm sure was not a huge money maker for MAS. How long did MAS serve MEX for?

Regards,

Chepos
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EddieDude
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:26 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 18):
KE: It is my understanding they've done well NRT-LAX as a low cost vendor. I assume they have changed strategies with the A380? (I'm asking as I do not know.)

Well, KE uses the A380 for ICN-JFK and ICN-LAX. I imagine they use 77Es or something for NRT-LAX, so whatever their strategy on the LAX-NRT route is, the A380 joining their fleet is irrelevant for NRT.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 20):
When MH started flying to MEX, the route was KUL-TPE or NRT (I can´t recall)-LAX-MEX.

TPE I think.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
AR385
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:30 am

Quoting chepos (Reply 21):
As you say the sold F and C for cheap, you can easily fill a plane between LAX and MEX but if you are MH I'm sure they were not filling the plane with high yielding pax. KUL-TPE (or NRT for that matter)- LAX-MEX I'm sure was not a huge money maker for MAS. How long did MAS serve MEX for?

I believe they had a couple of cabin crews who spoke Spanish. And while you are right that the KUL-TPE-LAX sectors and return were where the airline made their money, the only reason the Tag on LAX-MEX-LAX worked was because they were able to fill their F and C cabins to the brim with very high yielding passengers. For the sector at least. To the point that, when their 5th freedom rights were taken away, the route became completely unprofitable overnight.

I had friends who took that flight numerous times in C and told me how F and C were full and the rest of the plane was bordering on empty.

I believe their whole MEX adventure lasted close to three years, but I´m not sure. It might have been less.
 
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:43 am

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Some might remember that Tokyo used to be one of the original stops on the way to Los Angeles when Malaysian launched trans Pacific services in 1980s.

Unless I'm mistaken, they actually flew both KUL-NRT-LAX and KUL-TPE-LAX for a short while in the early 90's.

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 5):
I don't give LAX service two years to be chopped!

   History suggests otherwise. Look at how they stubbornly held onto KUL-DXB-EWR/KUL-ARN-EWR and KUL-JNB-EZE for years and years despite constant reports that the routes were bleeding money. Each and every time that MH announces the shuttering of some prestige route, someone gets in the way, and the airline magically decides to keep flying the route. The airline seems to have a really strange identity crisis. They seem to want to be SQ, but just haven't figured out how to do that. They probably don't have to fly to LAX, relying instead on new partners CX and JL to funnel passengers to the US, but prestige appears to play a huge role at MH, so I doubt we'll see LAX shuttered any time soon.
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HeeseokKoo
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:00 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
The LAX timings are pretty terrible and wont allow for much more than Western US connections. If they had a traditional LAX morning arrival they could atleast connect onto AA’s before noon Central US/ East Coast activity.

This timing is at least better than the current 6pm arrival, 1am departure schedule in LAX for connecting AA flights.

Also in NRT, NRT-KUL flight might be well connected with US-NRT flights which arrive 4-5pm, but that's all.
 
delimit
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:19 am

I believe KE is a 330 on the LAX - NRT route currently. I am sure it is still profitable for them but honestly I am surprised they still fly it. It's an odd holdover of an earlier era.

Re: the market as a whole, I think it should also be mentioned that there are 2 JVs in place here; AA/JL and UA/NH. Between the two and DL you've probably accounted for the lion's share of the market.

Odd they are dropping Taipei. That market should continue growing, versus US - Japan, which is fully mature.

Of course this seems perfectly in character for MH...
 
LAXintl
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:50 am

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 25):
This timing is at least better than the current 6pm arrival, 1am departure schedule in LAX for connecting AA flights.

Actually I'd say no. Today you can atleast catch the AA red-eyes (9-10pm) and all the inbound evening arrivals onto the 1am MH departure. With the change pax would be sitting even longer at LAX from 3pm until 9-10pm, and the departure back to NRT is too early to catch the AA evening inbounds.

But anyhow - MH today is not geared to connect to AA, and it seems with the new NRT schedule they are not focused on it either.

Quoting delimit (Reply 26):
Odd they are dropping Taipei. That market should continue growing, versus US - Japan, which is fully mature.

For fun I looked at traffic stats in the markets.

For the 12-mos ended June 2011 the following were enplanements:
LAX-NRT - 1,114,889
LAX-TPE - 902,41

I also looked at the markets 5-year back in 2006, and noted that Tokyo actually shrunk from 1,382,301 enplanements, (I'm sure the March 2011 earthquake had some to do with it) while Taipei grew from 636,009.

So indeed Tokyo is a more mature market from LA, versus Taipei which presumably will continue to see a growing pie to be had by airlines.
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EddieDude
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:07 am

Quoting delimit (Reply 26):
I believe KE is a 330 on the LAX - NRT route currently. I am sure it is still profitable for them but honestly I am surprised they still fly it. It's an odd holdover of an earlier era.

Thanks delimit. I was under the wrong impression they were using 77Es.

Quoting delimit (Reply 26):
Odd they are dropping Taipei. That market should continue growing, versus US - Japan, which is fully mature.

Are they dropping it altogether or just delinking it from LAX? Someone speculated they might continue to serve TPE albeit with narrowbodies. I don't know if this is the case or not but I would not be surprised.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
LAXintl
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:09 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 28):
Are they dropping it altogether or just delinking it from LAX? Someone speculated they might continue to serve TPE albeit with narrowbodies. I don't know if this is the case or not but I would not be surprised.

See..

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
I see that KUL-TPE becomes simply a daily 738 market after this.
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Carpethead
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:16 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 28):
Thanks delimit. I was under the wrong impression they were using 77Es.

It was downgauged to the A332 after the 3-11 earthquake, last year.
The aircraft size on the route continues to get smaller, as once upon a time they had a 744 then 773 then 772.
Next step is elimination of the route altogether.
 
777MAS
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RE: Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service

Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:36 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 24):
Unless I'm mistaken, they actually flew both KUL-NRT-LAX and KUL-TPE-LAX for a short while in the early 90's.

Yes, they did. That was around 1995.

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