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Porter To Start DC Service

Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:40 pm

I've been looking forward to this. Porter is starting service to IAD:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Porter...nes-goes-prnews-650484789.html?x=0
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YXD172
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RE: Porter To Start DC Service

Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:16 pm

Good to hear, the Washington market has been rumored for a while now - although many were saying that they were waiting for pre-clearance so that they could fly to DCA. I wonder if they'll move to DCA if YTZ ever does get pre-clearance?

Either way, there can't be many more slots left out of YTZ. Does anyone have a count of how many they've used so far?
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Mexicana757
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RE: Porter To Start DC Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:16 am

Good to see Porter expanding some more.
 
WestJet747
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RE: Porter To Start DC Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:28 am

This is great news! It puts quite a few rumours to rest.

Just a shame that the service doesn't start until 10 days AFTER I have plans to be in DC    I would have loved to be on the inaugural.

Quoting YXD172 (Reply 1):
I wonder if they'll move to DCA if IAD numbers are good enough they might just stay there (switching costs and all that...). Only time will tell. I'll be watching this one closely.

Quoting YXD172 (Reply 1):
Either way, there can't be many more slots left out of IAD will bring another 6 movements daily (3X).

[Edited 2012-01-11 17:04:33]
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aamd11
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RE: Porter To Start DC Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:51 am

Quoting YXD172 (Reply 1):
Either way, there can't be many more slots left out of YTZ. Does anyone have a count of how many they've used so far?

On April 16th, there are currently 83 departures scheduled from YTZ. I count 18 YOW, 17 YUL, 11 EWR, 7 BOS, 5 YQT, MDW, 4 YSB, 3 YAM, YQG, YQB, IAD, YTS, 1 MYR. Similar story on other days around there - with a 6th MDW but without a MYR.

That's 166 slots worth... total allocation is 172 if I'm not mistaken, so there's room for three more daily departures from YTZ - based on the above numbers.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Porter To Start DC Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:06 am

Quoting aamd11 (Reply 4):
On April 16th, there are currently 83 departures scheduled from YTZ. I count 18 YOW, 17 YUL, 11 EWR, 7 BOS, 5 YQT, MDW, 4 YSB, 3 YAM, YQG, YQB, IAD, YTS, 1 MYR. Similar story on other days around there - with a 6th MDW but without a MYR.

Assume you're only counting PD flights? There are also 15 AC (SkyRegional) departures to YUL.
 
aamd11
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RE: Porter To Start DC Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:33 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 5):
Assume you're only counting PD flights? There are also 15 AC (SkyRegional) departures to YUL.

Yup... 83 Porter departures, plus 15 Sky Regional. That's 196 of the 202 daily slots in total.
 
YXD172
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RE: Porter To Start DC Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:56 am

Quoting aamd11 (Reply 4):

That's 166 slots worth... total allocation is 172 if I'm not mistaken, so there's room for three more daily departures from YTZ - based on the above numbers.

Wow, so based on that count PD is pretty well done expanding at YTZ! Unless of course the city decides to allow more flights out of the airport. I knew they were busy, but not that they had that few slots left!
Radial engines don't leak oil, they are just marking their territory!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Porter To Start DC Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:03 pm

Is YTZ-IAD really a time savings over DCA-YYZ? For downtown to downtown travel, I suspect not, but I don't know Toronto that well.
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longhauler
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RE: Porter To Start DC Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:53 pm

Quoting YXD172 (Reply 7):
I knew they were busy, but not that they had that few slots left!

Using all of the alloted slots was essential to their game plan. This has blocked any other airlines from entering the market. Other than the 30 AC slots, and with AC losing the battle for more, Porter has the Island locked up.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 8):
For downtown to downtown travel, I suspect not, but I don't know Toronto that well.

Downtown Toronto to YYZ is about a 20 minute drive with no traffic. A High Speed Rail link was just announced joining Union Station (downtown Toronto) to YYZ. Most of the track already exists, I have not heard a forecast for service date.
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DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Porter To Start DC Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:01 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 8):
Is YTZ-IAD really a time savings over DCA-YYZ? For downtown to downtown travel, I suspect not, but I don't know Toronto that well.

That's a good question. My first thought reading that Porter will serve DC via IAD is, how will a service to IAD compete with AC's services to DCA? Does the fact that one gets a downtown airport on the Toronto end compensate for the fact that one will be way out in Northern Virginia on the other end? Or is a farther-out airport with preclearance in Toronto, and arrival close-in to downtown DC, with a short Metro ride, better?

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yegbey01
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RE: Porter To Start DC Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:03 pm

Finally....DC-YYZ is very expensive. And for a small business owner like myself who has to go to Toronto once a month, Porter will mean cheap flights.

Don't understand how long AC can get away with charging $750 - even with a month advance - for a R/T DCA to YYZ...Insane!

Dulles is a bit out of the way for me, but YTZ will save the hassles of the Gardiner on a typically Monday morning heading downtown.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Porter To Start DC Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:40 pm

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 11):
Don't understand how long AC can get away with charging $750 - even with a month advance - for a R/T DCA to YYZ...Insane!

They charge it because they can. You paid it, others pay it .... that is supply and demand.

Porter does the same thing on their "monopolies". Look at the fare YTZ-MYR, almost double that of the longer YTZ-YHZ. One is a monopoly, the other is not.
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connies4ever
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RE: Porter To Start DC Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:29 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 9):
Downtown Toronto to YYZ is about a 20 minute drive with no traffic. A High Speed Rail link was just announced joining Union Station (downtown Toronto) to YYZ. Most of the track already exists, I have not heard a forecast for service date.

20 minutes ? And not exceeding the limit, of course.  

The rail link is already a goat, as it will be diesel, not electric. Therefore the train can't actually come into the terminal and keep people away form the weather. And we're so wedded to the car in NA that I am dubious about the train's prospects.
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WestJet747
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RE: Porter To Start DC Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:56 pm

Quoting DCA-ROCguy" class="quote" target="_blank">DCA-ROCguy (Reply 10):
My first thought reading that Porter will serve DC via IAD is, how will a service to IAD compete with AC's services to DCA? Does the fact that one gets a downtown airport on the Toronto end compensate for the fact that one will be way out in Northern Virginia on the other end? Or is a farther-out airport with preclearance in Toronto, and arrival close-in to downtown DC, with a short Metro ride, better?

A person's propesity for saving usually dictates the market in this sort of thing. Some will disagree with me, but I'll put it this way: Would the average person prefer to spend ~$750 in Y to DCA, or spend far less for a J-like product to IAD and hitch a ride into town?

Quoting longhauler (Reply 12):
Porter does the same thing on their "monopolies". Look at the fare YTZ-MYR, almost double that of the longer YTZ-YHZ. One is a monopoly, the other is not.

One also happens to be a focus city with high frequency while the other is a niche market.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 13):
The rail link is already a goat, as it will be diesel, not electric. Therefore the train can't actually come into the terminal and keep people away form the weather. And we're so wedded to the car in NA that I am dubious about the train's prospects.

This is the first I'm hearing about the rail being diesel and not electric....they might as well just extend the GO line  
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yegbey01
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RE: Porter To Start DC Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:14 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 14):
A person's propesity for saving usually dictates the market in this sort of thing. Some will disagree with me, but I'll put it this way: Would the average person prefer to spend ~$750 in Y to DCA, or spend far less for a J-like product to IAD and hitch a ride into town?

problem is that AC/UA are charging 750 on YYZ-IAD as well. I know many who travel frequently for either own business or personal reasons Tor-Was and many fly to BUF.

let's not forget that the Dulles Corridor is full of big IT companies, so not everyone must fly to DCA for that matter.
 
capitalflyer
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RE: Porter To Start DC Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:32 pm

Quoting YXD172 (Reply 1):
I wonder if they'll move to DCA

They can't, they don't have any slots.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Porter To Start DC Service

Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:39 pm

Quoting capitalflyer (Reply 16):
Quoting YXD172 (Reply 1):
I wonder if they'll move to DCA

They can't, they don't have any slots.

And they can't serve DCA until YTZ gets U.S. pre-clerance which is unlikely to happen for quite a while considering cutbacks in the U.S. federal budget. DCA only has customs/immigration for non-airline flights (business jets etc.). Only pre-cleared scheduled flights can operate there.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Porter To Start DC Service

Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:05 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 14):
.they might as well just extend the GO line

I thought that is what they were going to do. The GO line comes within 1 km of YYZ, and about 100m from the Pearson Link train.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 14):
One also happens to be a focus city with high frequency while the other is a niche market.

You don't think if US Airways (for example) started to fly YYZ-MYR the fare would come down?

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 15):
I know many who travel frequently for either own business or personal reasons Tor-Was and many fly to BUF.

Which is of course, a whole other argument. Flying through BUF can easily add 90 minutes each way onto the journey. And as the LFs for YYZ-DCA are already very high, it does not appear to be a passenger that UA/AC are trying to lure.
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