tsra
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WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:22 pm

Looks like WN wanted to make sure the subsidies would remain before they committed. The article below mentions WN is doing a market study to see which routes they will enter. My guess would be DAL, DEN, MDW, and LAS. What are your thoughts?

http://www.kansas.com/2012/01/13/217...an-transitioning-to-southwest.html
 
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mariner
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:59 pm

Quoting TSRA (Thread starter):
What are your thoughts?

I think that $7 million is a nice subsidy for it:

http://www.ksn.com/news/local/story/...out-of/ZfasuDhO8kuE5jRaHD6s2g.cspx

"Southwest Airlines has requested that the Affordable Airfares Program continue -- providing subsidies to keep Southwest in Wichita. Those subsidies include $5 million from the state and $1 million each from Sedgwick County and Wichita. The delegation of local leaders said that Southwest Airlines made it clear that the subsidies are a critical component for them to be in this market."

mariner
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mrskyguy
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:26 pm

Bingo. WN loves a good subsidy, and I can't blame them.. plus they're really just re-branding the existing AirTran operation.
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olddominion727
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:27 pm

Quoting TSRA (Thread starter):

Excellent guesses. I think 'maybe' one to LAX and one or two to PHX, may be one TPA & MCO, ATL, SAN, OAK... As a mid country stop?
 
ScottB
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:36 pm

Quoting TSRA (Thread starter):
My guess would be DAL, DEN, MDW, and LAS. What are your thoughts?

PHX, HOU and STL would be other possibilities, with HOU & STL being somewhat less likely. I could see the ATL service ultimately transitioning to STL as the latter is somewhat better-situated for access to the network.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:43 pm

The ones I think will be applicable for WN at ICT:
DAL...2-3x daily
MCI...2-3x daily (with continuing service to MDW/BWI)
LAS...1x daily
ATL...2-3x daily (to keep the FL flights)
PHX...1-2x daily

Minimum of 8 flights...maximum of 12 flights...which is about the right size for ICT's market.
 
atrude777
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:02 pm

If we'll play the guessing game I'll say...

STL-2
MDW-2
DAL-2
HOU-2
MCO-1
ATL-2
LAS-1

12 Flights to start with.

Alex
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STT757
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:04 pm

Quoting TSRA (Thread starter):
My guess would be DAL, DEN, MDW, and LAS. What are your thoughts?

ATL, MDW, DAL, HOU, LAS, PHX, MCO.
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kcrwflyer
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:43 pm

Great, a city that couldn't truly support 3 FL flights to ATL is getting WN. WN is officially out of new markets. I wonder if WN will try to get the subsidy raised to sustain the 8 flights vs the 3 they were paying for?
 
KELPkid
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:53 pm

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 8):



Great, a city that couldn't truly support 3 FL flights to ATL is getting WN. WN is officially out of new markets. I wonder if WN will try to get the subsidy raised to sustain the 8 flights vs the 3 they were paying for?

Good airline, good airport, good population base, wrong destination   I think WN has the right idea here, they can probably make it work if they go to the right places  
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DCA-ROCguy
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:02 pm

WN is hardly "out markets." Like anyone else, they'll fly where they can make money. If Wichita and Sedgwick County want to offer the subsidy, and it turns out that WN can run profitable flights with it, good for all of them. I have yet to see either the legacy carrier or LCC that will turn down a subsidized route. AA and RDU-London, anyone?

Jim
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KELPkid
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:05 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 1):
think that $7 million is a nice subsidy for it:

http://www.ksn.com/news/local/story/...out-of/ZfasuDhO8kuE5jRaHD6s2g.cspx

"Southwest Airlines has requested that the Affordable Airfares Program continue -- providing subsidies to keep Southwest in Wichita. Those subsidies include $5 million from the state and $1 million each from Sedgwick County and Wichita. The delegation of local leaders said that Southwest Airlines made it clear that the subsidies are a critical component for them to be in this market."

mariner

Wonder how long they'll be needed for, though...I could see it become self-sustaining once the routes have been established for a year or two. WN has, in the past, avoided subsidized service, although they took the money for that last airport in Florida that they started before the FL merger.
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mariner
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:12 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 11):
Wonder how long they'll be needed for, though...I could see it become self-sustaining once the routes have been established for a year or two. WN has, in the past, avoided subsidized service, although they took the money for that last airport in Florida that they started before the FL merger.

Airtran has been taking the subsidy as long as it has been at ICT. If that subsidy is a requirement for Southwest, it suggests the Airtran service has never become self-sustaining.

mariner.
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KELPkid
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:16 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 12):
Airtran has been taking the subsidy as long as it has been at ICT. If that subsidy is a requirement for Southwest, it suggests the Airtran service has never become self-sustaining.

mariner.

See my previous post (the one before my reply to you). ATL is hardly a viable destination from ICT, and I don't think AirTran offered connections to other carriers at ATL  
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joeljack
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:18 pm

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 6):
If we'll play the guessing game I'll say...

STL-2
MDW-2
DAL-2
HOU-2
MCO-1
ATL-2
LAS-1

12 Flights to start with.

Alex

No way...it won't be that many flights.
2x DAL
2x DEN
2x MDW
1x LAS
...any maybe ATL will keep it's service but I doubt it. It's much cheaper to fly the passengers a much short route and then connect them to ATL.
I'd say 7x daily flights...maybe 8.
 
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mariner
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:20 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 13):
ATL is hardly a viable destination from ICT, and I don't think AirTran offered connections to other carriers at ATL

Delta thinks ATL is a viable destination from ICT and I'm not sure why Airtran would offer connections to other carriers, from anywhere, really. Doesn't Airtran offer its own connections at ATL?

mariner.
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mah584jr
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:25 pm

Good news for Wichita; they certainly needed it after Boeing decided to close up shop.
 
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usxguy
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:29 pm

Eh.. I think its going to look more like:

DEN - 1
PHX or ABQ - 1
DAL - 3
MDW - 2
ATL - 2

I don't see an HOU spoke and I am not sure St. Louis will fit into their model - not enough O/D... Chicago though, could work and provide connections to the upper East coast.

PHX/ABQ provides a spoke to the western states

DAL opens up texas/louisiana/alabama

ATL -status quo

DEN - and continuing to SEA ^_^
xx
 
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lightsaber
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:34 pm

I've thought for a while that ICT could support WN (even without subsidies). This will be a boost for the local economy.

Quoting mrskyguy (Reply 2):
plus they're really just re-branding the existing AirTran operation.

Not when the flight numbers need to increase to support a WN station. Instead of a FL 'outsourced ground handling,' it will be done with WN 20 minute turns.

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 8):
Great, a city that couldn't truly support 3 FL flights to ATL is getting WN.

ATL will probably loose one flight to be 'right sized.'

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 11):
I could see it become self-sustaining once the routes have been established for a year or two.

  

Quoting joeljack (Reply 14):
No way...it won't be that many flights.

What is the minimum number of flights/day to support a WN station? I thought it was ten (10)? (Note: I'm asking.)

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 6):
STL-2
MDW-2
DAL-2
HOU-2
MCO-1
ATL-2
LAS-1

12 Flights to start with.

Make that ten flights and I would agree with you. I suspect that STL would be the two cut.  

Your city selections only have LAS for a Westward destination. With the build up of the DEN hub, I could see one less MDW flight and a flight to DEN.

The issue for WN at ICT will be F9. The competition will limit fares to the West.


Lightsaber
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mli717fan
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:34 pm

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 8):
Great, a city that couldn't truly support 3 FL flights to ATL is getting WN. WN is officially out of new markets. I wonder if WN will try to get the subsidy raised to sustain the 8 flights vs the 3 they were paying for?

Amen to that.

According to Transtats, the FL loads are garbage:
2010 average: 57.14%
2011 average: 63.26%

Source: http://www.transtats.bts.gov/Data_Elements.aspx

It's too bad to see cities that actually supported their FL service go under, while subsidy money keeps this dog afloat.

I wonder what this will mean for G4 at ICT?
 
BMI727
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:40 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 18):
Make that ten flights and I would agree with you. I suspect that STL would be the two cut

   I don't see how STL would fit into Southwest's plans at ICT at all. There's bigger markets for them to serve.

Quoting MLI717fan (Reply 19):
It's too bad to see cities that actually supported their FL service go under, while subsidy money keeps this dog afloat.

I'm sure Southwest would be more than happy to continue flying to those other cities if they would write a check.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
mli717fan
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:46 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 20):
I'm sure Southwest would be more than happy to continue flying to those other cities if they would write a check.

In most cases, I think you are correct. It's smart business and that's a huge chunk of change. I just find it surprising how crappy those loads are.
 
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mariner
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:53 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 18):
The issue for WN at ICT will be F9. The competition will limit fares to the West.

Unless ICT continues the half million dollar subsidy to Frontier, I can't think why that airline would stay.

Those big Airtran subsidies have cost ICT Delta service to other destinations:

http://archives.californiaaviation.org/airport/msg35107.html

"Delta dropping seven Wichita flights amid spat over subsidies

Delta Air Lines, which has been battling the city over subsidies
given to rival Air Tran Airways, has announced it is dropping seven of its
daily flights from Wichita's Mid-Continent Airport.

The discontinued flights include three to Salt Lake City, two to Cincinnati
and two to Atlanta, airport director Tom Nolan said. The move takes effect
July 1."


mariner
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joeljack
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:03 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 18):
Quoting joeljack (Reply 14):
No way...it won't be that many flights.

What is the minimum number of flights/day to support a WN station? I thought it was ten (10)? (Note: I'm asking.)

I know several stations opened with 8 or 9 per day. I think we'll see some smaller stations with the Airtran merger. (pure speculation). ECP for example opened with 8 flights/day.
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:11 pm

Quoting TSRA (Thread starter):
Looks like WN wanted to make sure the subsidies would remain before they committed.

At first I thought the article stated WN wanted $7 million per year to keep/start ICT service! But after re-reading it I realized that figure constitutes the entire Kansas Affordable Airfares program - a pool that WN wants access to but hasn't asked for anything specific (in terms of $). Obviously that pot also covers other things like F9 to DEN.

Quoting TSRA (Thread starter):
The article below mentions WN is doing a market study to see which routes they will enter. My guess would be DAL, DEN, MDW, and LAS. What are your thoughts?

My guess is that ATL won't be served nonstop anymore. FL relied on the subsidies even with its low costs and extensive hub connectivity beyond ATL. As WN scales back ATL from a major connecting complex to a leaner operation geared primarily at Atlanta's O&D, the flights will only start to do worse.

The obvious choices are MDW, DEN, and DAL (each 2-3x daily). These options cater to ICT's O&D while also offering excellent access to the entire WN network. I'm pretty sure US left a void when it recently terminated PHX (and this may or may not have been met by G4's new AZA service), so it could make sense for WN to fly there. To facilitate one-stop connections to popular Florida markets (MDW is too far out of the way, DAL is still bound by Wright Amendment until 2014) it may be necessary to serve STL and/or HOU in some fashion as well - assuming ATL is dropped.
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Flytravel
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:13 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 18):
What is the minimum number of flights/day to support a WN station?

CRP has 5 but it's at the edge of the country and all service is to HOU.

JAN has 6, and CHS and GSP have 7. So, in a situation where it's flights in different directions, I think the minimum WN is using is 6.

My guess for ICT would be DAL, DEN and after that STL, and MCI or MDW. Less a chance for ATL (long and they'd have to compete unnecessarily with DL on the route) or LAS (long, low yield; somewhat a small originating market).
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:16 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 22):
Those big Airtran subsidies have cost ICT Delta service to other destinations:

http://archives.californiaaviation.org/airport/msg35107.html

"Delta dropping seven Wichita flights amid spat over subsidies

Delta Air Lines, which has been battling the city over subsidies
given to rival Air Tran Airways, has announced it is dropping seven of its
daily flights from Wichita's Mid-Continent Airport.

The discontinued flights include three to Salt Lake City, two to Cincinnati
and two to Atlanta, airport director Tom Nolan said. The move takes effect
July 1."

mariner

This was largely a fabrication by DL. CVG and SLC service performed poorly and was going to be cut regardless of FL. ATL service today has more capacity than in 2005 with 1x DC9, 1xCR9 and 3xCR7.
 
atrude777
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:17 pm

Quoting joeljack (Reply 14):

No way...it won't be that many flights.

Just a guessing game, didn't say it was a fact.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 11):
although they took the money for that last airport in Florida that they started before the FL merger.

It is to my understanding SWA did NOT collect for ECP as the flights on it's own was enough for Southwest to not need money, I read this online but cannot google a source.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 18):

What is the minimum number of flights/day to support a WN station? I thought it was ten (10)? (Note: I'm asking.)

8 is the minimum as proved by MSP, ECP and other stations.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 18):

Your city selections only have LAS for a Westward destination. With the build up of the DEN hub, I could see one less MDW flight and a flight to DEN.

I had completely forgotten about DEN, my mistake! I would include DEN and subtract HOU or STL for it as MDW could provide the east connections.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 20):

I don't see how STL would fit into Southwest's plans at ICT at all. There's bigger markets for them to serve.

Between the Boeing Plant and Cessna in ICT and Boeing in STL I thought it would justify a non stop. Granted the Boeing plant in ICT is closing so that may not be a valid argument so much.

It would also provide more connections in the midwest via STL without flying too far north to MDW.

Just a guess and speculation, it is a guessing game here.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
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mariner
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:22 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 26):
This was largely a fabrication by DL. CVG and SLC service performed poorly and was going to be cut regardless of FL. ATL service today has more capacity than in 2005 with 1x DC9, 1xCR9 and 3xCR7.

I think the issue was the subsidies - understandably. Allegiant isn't too happy about them, either:

http://www.kansas.com/2011/02/20/172...ant-may-consider-more-flights.html

"When Allegiant Air expands its routes, Wichita would be a prime market for growth, according to the airline's president. "We definitely think Wichita is a very strong market, and we definitely think there's a lot of opportunity to grow it," Allegiant Travel Co. president Andrew Levy said last week.

The problem, he said, is the revenue guarantees AirTran Airways receives to help underwrite losses for its Wichita service.

"We're not on fair footing," Levy said. "That's one area that we've been very frustrated with.... I don't see us serving Florida out of Wichita until that subsidy goes away."


As to the actual money involved:

"The state's Affordable Airfares program provided $4.88 million to AirTran in the latest round of funding. Frontier Airlines received $125,000."

mariner
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Bobloblaw
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:34 pm

I see WN flying:

DEN 2-3
MDW 2-3
DAL-3
PHX 1
LAS 1

9-11 flights per day.

I dont think MCI will be added.
 
citationjet
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:43 pm

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 27):
Between the Boeing Plant and Cessna in ICT and Boeing in STL I thought it would justify a non stop.

The Boeing plant in Wichita is shutting down in 2013, with the loss of 2,100 jobs. No more Boeing in Wichita after 80 years.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...2012/01/04/national/a152517S51.DTL
http://www.kansas.com/2012/01/04/216...boeing-to-close-wichita-plant.html

AA recently stopped RJ non-stop service ICT to STL.

Cessna ICT has no business relationships with Boeing in STL.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
atrude777
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:48 pm

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 30):

The Boeing plant in Wichita is shutting down in 2013, with the loss of 2,100 jobs. No more Boeing in Wichita after 80 years.

I know, you cut off my sentence...I kept saying in the same sentence...

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 27):

Between the Boeing Plant and Cessna in ICT and Boeing in STL I thought it would justify a non stop. Granted the Boeing plant in ICT is closing so that may not be a valid argument so much.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
citationjet
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:50 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 26):
Quoting mariner (Reply 22):
Those big Airtran subsidies have cost ICT Delta service to other destinations:

Delta has started mainline service back to ICT from ATL on January 5, 2012 using A319 aircraft.

.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
citationjet
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:59 pm

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 31):
I know, you cut off my sentence...I kept saying in the same sentence...

You are right. I don't know how I didn't see the rest of your sentence. My apologies.....   
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
atrude777
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:05 pm

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 33):
You are right. I don't know how I didn't see the rest of your sentence. My apologies.....

No Worries, but you bring up a good point. ICT is losing quite a bit of potential customers business wise from the closing of Boeing's Plant. I am curious how much of an effect this will be for passenger data at ICT.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:12 pm

Quoting MLI717fan (Reply 19):
According to Transtats, the FL loads are garbage:
2010 average: 57.14%
2011 average: 63.26%

Not for a subsidized route they aren't. Take a look at some EAS markets sometime.

Quoting mariner (Reply 28):
I think the issue was the subsidies - understandably. Allegiant isn't too happy about them, either:

Whatever losses of service Wichita suffers from DL (and as FlyPNS1 and Cubsrule have indicated, whatever Delta's posturing or statements, they're still offering substantial capacity to ICT) -that's a price ICT is willing to pay. As for G4: Wichita seems to prefer regular LCC service to an LCC hub, to sub-daily G4 nonstop service to sunspots without connecting opportunities to business markets.

Regarding WN's likely conversion of ATL to a big focus city rather than hub--discussed extensively at this site--in 2014 DAL opens up. It will probably be reconfigured some to accommodate nonstops to major non-perimeter markets, likely to include Florida. Not to mention, ICT-MDW is likely. ICT will have connection and through-flight opportunities on WN, whether or not they remain at Atlanta.

Jim
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mariner
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:16 pm

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 35):
Whatever losses of service Wichita suffers from DL (and as FlyPNS1 and Cubsrule have indicated, whatever Delta's posturing or statements, they're still offering substantial capacity to ICT) -that's a price ICT is willing to pay.

When I did dispute that? All I said is that it has ramifications for other airlines and other service.

If Southwest is going to get a big piece of the pie and starts ICT-DEN with that additional money, more than Frontier gets, then I think Frontier should drop the route.

But you won't hear me whining about it. Simply to state a fact is not to cheer, criticize or complain.

mariner

[Edited 2012-01-13 15:20:29]
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kcrwflyer
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:34 pm

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 35):
Not for a subsidized route they aren't. Take a look at some EAS markets sometime.

No amount of financial backing makes the loads any better. They're garbage. The route is paid for but the ridership is garbage. EAS is a joke, this is network LCC access.

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 35):
Regarding WN's likely conversion of ATL to a big focus city rather than hub--discussed extensively at this site--in 2014 DAL opens up. It will probably be reconfigured some to accommodate nonstops to major non-perimeter markets, likely to include Florida. Not to mention, ICT-MDW is likely. ICT will have connection and through-flight opportunities on WN, whether or not they remain at Atlanta.

All true. I'm not sure they'll keep ATL with WN.

Quoting mariner (Reply 36):
If Southwest is going to get a big piece of the pie and starts ICT-DEN with that additional money, more than Frontier gets, then I think Frontier should drop the route.

I agree.
 
wnflyguy
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:46 pm

I see ICT with 1 LAS 2 DEN 2 STL 1 ATL 2 DAL. WNFG
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
mli717fan
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:06 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 28):
"When Allegiant Air expands its routes, Wichita would be a prime market for growth, according to the airline's president. "We definitely think Wichita is a very strong market, and we definitely think there's a lot of opportunity to grow it," Allegiant Travel Co. president Andrew Levy said last week.

The problem, he said, is the revenue guarantees AirTran Airways receives to help underwrite losses for its Wichita service.

"We're not on fair footing," Levy said. "That's one area that we've been very frustrated with.... I don't see us serving Florida out of Wichita until that subsidy goes away."
Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 38):
I see ICT with 1 LAS 2 DEN 2 STL 1 ATL 2 DAL.

I wonder if G4 will pull their LAS flight. Given their avoidance of routes with competition and unhappiness with the subsidies, I could see that happening. If it does, the subsidy to WN could ironically raise fares on that route. Allegiant has a lot of $56.99 fares on that route, TUL-LAS looks like the cheapest are $193. That's quite a difference. (I used a random day in March.)
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:28 am

Quoting usxguy (Reply 17):
DEN - and continuing to SEA ^_^

Interesting idea if the Boeing plant in Wichita hadn't been scheduled for closure recently...they may have been able to make this work.

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 27):
Between the Boeing Plant and Cessna in ICT and Boeing in STL I thought it would justify a non stop. Granted the Boeing plant in ICT is closing so that may not be a valid argument so much.

I can't imagine there's much business traffic between Boeing Defense in STL and what used to be the Boeing plant in ICT. I'd say you're probably correct in that there's nothing to see here...

DAL, HOU, DEN, MDW, LAS, ATL sounds about right to me...any speculation about Boeing traffic is a complete non-starter given that ICT ops are closing shop and that past efforts at catching Boeing traffic have failed...do I recall that AA once ran SEA-ICT, or am I making that up? A straight-shot connection through DEN via WN may have worked, but we'll never know...
 
md94
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:00 am

I hope WN entering the market will help bring fares down to a reasonable level. I have a difficult time finding fares for under $400 between ORD - ICT. I would gladly fly out of MDW as to pay such a high fare.
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citationjet
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:16 am

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 40):
do I recall that AA once ran SEA-ICT

TWA flew SEA-ICT years ago for a short while.
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splitterz
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:38 am

I think it is such garbage that carriers get subsidies to start service. Especially a carrier like WN, product recognition should easily be enough.

[Edited 2012-01-13 17:40:05]

Not counting EAS, as that is completely different matter.




[Edited 2012-01-13 17:57:24]
 
PI767
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:50 am

How did a thread about Southwest become a thread about Frontier?
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atrude777
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:05 am

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...f-airtrans-wichita-service-366918/

Key Points to note...

--The Dallas-based airline, however, released a statement that stopped short of a firm decision.

--Southwest also has not decided if AirTran's current service from Wichita to Atlanta will continue, or if the service will transfer to one of the carrier's traditional hubs.

--Southwest does have plans to "eventually" make Wichita part of the airline's route network, the carrier said.

A little jumping the gun by ICT?

Alex
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BMI727
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:50 am

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 30):
The Boeing plant in Wichita is shutting down in 2013, with the loss of 2,100 jobs. No more Boeing in Wichita after 80 years.

Of course there still is Spirit and their 11,000 people (not all in ICT though) but I doubt they will generate enough travel to Seattle or Charleston to matter. Just connect at a convenient hub.

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 40):
I can't imagine there's much business traffic between Boeing Defense in STL and what used to be the Boeing plant in ICT.

There isn't. From what I can tell, most of the BDS traffic is to Seattle and Southern California with some to the DC area and other places.

Quoting Splitterz (Reply 43):
I think it is such garbage that carriers get subsidies to start service.

The city wants to pay them and it's their money. If that's how they see fit to invest it, good for them.

Quoting Splitterz (Reply 43):
Not counting EAS, as that is completely different matter.

EAS is a completely different matter. EAS is garbage.
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zippyjet
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:55 am

My guess would be BWI-ICT Since BWI is one of the largest in our operation it could be a good routing point for points in the Northeast including the BOS and NYC ,markets and also the eventual International service and to South Florida.
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ginger727
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:20 am

The press release below is all that the Wichita and Kansas folks announced today about Southwest service. It basically says that AirTran will remain in place during the transition, and then Southwest will replace it in 2013. The press release never mentions anything about specific routes. Other articles I have read from other media have Southwest spokespersons confirming this information.



JOINT NEWS RELEASE
Date: January 13, 2012
Office of the Governor:

Southwest Airlines is Coming to Kansas
Continuation of Kansas Affordable Airfares Program Key

Wichita, KS – Southwest Airlines has committed to serve Wichita according to local and state leaders who met with the airline late last week. “We are pleased to announce that Southwest Airlines has agreed to serve Mid-Continent Airport,” stated Mayor Carl Brewer. “Wichita has been anxiously waiting to hear what the future plans were with regard to Southwest Airlines and we are thrilled with this news.”

Last week, a small delegation of elected officials and business leaders travelled to Dallas to meet with high-level officials at Southwest Airlines.

The delegation was comprised of the following officials:
Governor Sam Brownback
U.S. Senator Jerry Moran
Mayor Carl Brewer
Sedgwick County Commissioner Dave Unruh
Lynn Nichols, Immediate Past Chair, Wichita Metro Chamber
Jeff Turner, President and CEO, Spirit AeroSystems
Jack Pelton, Retired Chairman and CEO, Cessna Aircraft Company
Victor White, Director of Airports, Wichita Airport Authority

“This is exciting news for Wichita and south central Kansas. Quality commercial air service is key to economic growth,” Gov. Brownback said. “My administration looks forward to working with leaders of Wichita, Sedgwick County and Southwest Airlines leaders to finalize this partnership. We thank Gary Kelly, Chairman and CEO, Southwest Airlines, and his leadership team for their commitment of this process and look forward to the arrival of Southwest Airlines in Kansas.”

“As you know, Southwest Airlines acquired Air Tran in 2011 and is currently in the process of integrating Air Tran into their company,” said Sedgwick County Commissioner Dave Unruh. “Officials at Southwest Airlines informed us service will continue in Kansas under the Air Tran name until 2013 and then a transition to Southwest Airlines will occur.”
“Southwest Airlines did request the continuation of the Kansas Affordable Airfares Program,” said Lynn Nichols, immediate past chair, Wichita Metro Chamber.

The delegation said Southwest Airlines made it clear that this is a critical component for them to enter this market. The Kansas Affordable Airfares Program, a city, county and state effort, has been in place for the past six years with a positive return on investment. The purpose of the program helps provide more air flight options, more competition for air travel and affordable airfares for all Kansans. At the state level, affordable airfares is funded by the state’s Economic Development Initiatives Fund and is included in the Governor’s Recommended FY2013 Budget as a key component of the Governor’s Economic Development Strategic Plan.

“Not only has this program been successful for the leisure traveler, it is a vital piece for recruiting and retaining business,” said Lynn Nichols, recent chair of the Wichita Metro Chamber. “Having affordable flights and many flight choices is essential for keeping the cost of business competitive. We appreciate the continued support of this program from the Kansas legislature, the City of Wichita and Sedgwick County.”

“Today’s announcement is wonderful news for Kansas,” Senator Moran said. “As a resident of Western Kansas, I know firsthand the importance of maintaining commercial air service in communities across Kansas. I thank Southwest Airlines for their decision to not only maintain air service at Wichita’s Mid-Continent Airport via Air Tran, but also eventually fully switch over to Southwest Airlines, which will contribute significantly to Kansans’ quality of life and our state’s economic future. I look forward to Kansas continuing to build a fruitful relationship with Southwest Airlines and I look forward to flying Southwest out of Wichita very soon.”

The delegation said Southwest is currently preparing a comprehensive plan that includes an analysis of potential routes to and from Wichita, and an announcement from Southwest will come later when that market study of opportunities is completed.

###
 
point2point
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RE: WN To Start ICT In 2013

Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:48 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 47):
My guess would be BWI-ICT

Interesting pick, as this would also give ICT at least a foothold in the nations capital, and somewhat supported with O&D, as well as open up the whole Northeast with easy connections.

Here's the DOT info on PPD for the top 25 1Q11 at ICT

1….. Las Vegas……..........…..225
2….. Atlanta……….................221
3….. Los Angeles Metro.........175
4….. Phoenix......……….........171
5….. Denver.......………..........162
6….. Orlando......………..........119
7….. Baltimore/Washington.....108
8….. Chicago Metro Area.…….100
9….. Miami/Ft. Lauderdale……..90
10…. New York Metro………......86
11…. Dallas/Fort Worth………....81
12…. Seattle.......………............80
13…. Houston..………...............72
14…. San Diego.........……….....58
15…. San Francisco/Oakland.....56
16…. Minneapolis......................52
17…. Tampa..............................51
18…. Philadelphia...................... 37
19…. San Antonio......................36
20…. Boston/Providence.............33
21…. Detroit, MI.........................33
22…. Charlotte, NC.....................33
23…. Salt Lake City....................31
24…. Raleigh/Durham.................28
25…. Portland (OR)………...........26

Any revisions/more predictions?

 

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