wnflyguy
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WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:23 pm

Looks like WN is picking up 2 more gates but will be in terminal A. Any thoughts? Wnfg  
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
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RWA380
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WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:27 pm

WN is going to pick up where others have cut back.....DEN wanted WN so badly in the past and WN didn't want to pay their fees, now DEN got what they wanted, and now everyone else is leaving the party slowly but surely.
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catdaddy63
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WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:29 pm

Trying to get enough gates to move DL out of terminal C? They would need a few more to make that work.
 
Italianflyer
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:05 pm

Any idea who the A gates belong(ed) to??? I love DIA but my only gripe is that the train is the only way from A to C: no walkway option a la ATL. During peak times or when the trains go tech, it can make things complicated.
 
WNCrew
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:11 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
Looks like WN is picking up 2 more gates but will be in terminal A. Any thoughts? Wnfg  

We're exclusively in C yes? SO we'll have a split-terminal operation? Doesn't seem very passenger/connection friendly in a city where our pax have to change planes.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
atrude777
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:25 pm

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 4):

We're exclusively in C yes? SO we'll have a split-terminal operation? Doesn't seem very passenger/connection friendly in a city where our pax have to change planes.

True, but if rumors are true, DEN is theoretically the next Domicile for Southwest, so more gates will be needed to add RON's.

The two A gates can be used as Originators in the morning where no connections are needed, from 6-8am-ish, this can fill about 5 flights per gate to relieve "connection" flights at C that were backed up. Every time I fly through DEN on WN we have to hold for gates or we get gate swapped, I am sure you have had some experience too about that?

I am curious on what the official plan is for the two gates in A for Southwest, could it also be for Air Tran additions to CAK, DAY and LGA as well?

Alex
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rumorboy
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:26 pm

I hear it's for expansion for AirTran as well as new International destination's out of DEN. We'll see.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:28 pm

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 4):
Doesn't seem very passenger/connection friendly in a city where our pax have to change planes.

If they are close to the middle of A, I doubt most walks would be longer than A14 to B27 at MDW or B15 to A11 at BWI or C7 to C25 at LAS. It's a bit of a dirty little secret, but there are some l-o-n-g walks at WN hubs (one end of PHX to the other is another).
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WNCrew
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:30 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
It's a bit of a dirty little secret, but there are some l-o-n-g walks at WN hubs (one end of PHX to the other is another).

This is true... or at MDW A4A/B to the hammerhead at the end of B.
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MaverickM11
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:33 pm

Quoting rumorboy (Reply 6):
I hear it's for expansion for AirTran as well as new International destination's out of DEN

I'd expect them to blanket F9's Mexico coverage as soon as possible.
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atrude777
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:39 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):

Ya but to get from A to C, no walking can be done. They have to take the Train which will add some time to walk to the train, wait for the next train and ride it and so forth.

Not a HUGE deal, but def adds to the connection time.

Alex
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QANTAS747-438
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:05 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
Looks like WN is picking up 2 more gates but will be in terminal A. Any thoughts?

New crew base.
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:22 pm

I don't know how RDU is doing for WN at DEN, but is there a possibility of adding a 2nd flight? I mean, currently there is only one and WN is the only carrier offering the flight. I hope a 2nd flight is on their radar. Anyone got any ideas? I doubt if we will see UA offer it again..
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Bobloblaw
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:20 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):
Looks like WN is picking up 2 more gates but will be in terminal A. Any thoughts? Wnfg

Yes, my thought is at some point UAL is going to have to start defending DEN and stop cutting frequencies if they want to keep a viable hub there long term. UAL doesnt seem to realize that they can fight WN there and the side benefit will be F9 goes out of business. By neglecting DEN, UA is simply giving F9 breathing room. UA needs to restore frequencies and upgauge RJs in markets like ATL to A319s and become aggressive on pricing.
 
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mariner
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:58 pm

Quoting BobLoblaw (Reply 13):
UAL doesnt seem to realize that they can fight WN there and the side benefit will be F9 goes out of business. By neglecting DEN, UA is simply giving F9 breathing room. UA needs to restore frequencies and upgauge RJs in markets like ATL to A319s and become aggressive on pricing.

That strategy didn't work last time United tried it.

When Southwest first came to DEN, Inited boosted capacity and cut fares on all the common routes. Within a year, DEN had turned from one of United's most profitable hubs to its least profitable and the Rocky Mountain News flat out said that United was losing money at DEN:

http://m.rockymountainnews.com/news/.../united-loses-money-on-denver-hub/

"United loses money on Denver hub

United Airlines said fierce competition in Denver has eroded some of its profits here, contributing to a first-quarter net loss that exceeded analyst expectations.

The arrival of discount giant Southwest Airlines last year, coupled with aggressive expansion by homegrown Frontier Airlines and United's emergence from bankruptcy, has helped keep fares low in Denver despite a nationwide increase in ticket prices.

United's Denver hub has "changed significantly from one of our more successful profit contributors" a year ago, Glenn Tilton, the carrier's chief executive officer, said Wednesday on a conference call."


It helped to kill Ted, of course.

mariner
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Bobloblaw
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:14 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 14):
That strategy didn't work last time United tried it.

That's cuz they didnt see it through. UA is and waas very short term thinking.
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:25 pm

Quoting rumorboy (Reply 6):
I hear it's for expansion for AirTran as well as new International destination's out of DEN. We'll see.

AirTran expansion and new international destinations... Hmmm, might as well make life difficult for F9!

The last FL expansion from DEN was interesting to say the least... After that, I figured that starting up DEN-Mexico (pretty much F9's last respite/safe haven from WN) would be a priority! Then they can throw in a few new domestic routes like DEN-ICT, DEN-DSM, and DEN-GRR for good measure  .
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kingcavalier
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:37 pm

I believe WN will start using gate A51/A53 in March, but is this really an expansion? Their subsidiary, FL, operates these gates on A already. Shouldn't the title be "FL signage to be rebranded WN on A concourse?"
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mariner
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:38 pm

Quoting BobLoblaw (Reply 15):
That's cuz they didnt see it through. UA is and waas very short term thinking.

Nevertheless, the strategy didn't work and it isn't usually a good idea to throw good money after bad.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 16):
Hmmm, might as well make life difficult for F9!

Hooray for Apple Vacations.  

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atrude777
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:53 pm

Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 17):
I believe WN will start using gate A51/A53 in March, but is this really an expansion? Their subsidiary, FL, operates these gates on A already. Shouldn't the title be "FL signage to be rebranded WN on A concourse?"

Air Tran is at C right now too, didn't realize they were splitting A and C between Air Tran already?

from Air Tran's website...

Terminal and Gate Locations

Gate A53 - C46


Air Tran alone will be operating to ATL, MKE, DAY, CAK and LGA, which would probably need an extra gate, the former one in A as mentioned?

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 11):

New crew base.

I am hearing this too!

Alex
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kingcavalier
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:28 am

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 19):
from Air Tran's website...

Terminal and Gate Locations

Gate A53 - C46

They were on C, moved to the two gates in A and it appears they (WN or FL?) are back on C. But, the two gates that I was told WN was taking in A (A51 & 53) were the FL gates while they were on A.

[Edited 2012-01-14 16:37:54]
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chrisair
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:05 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
C7 to C25 at LAS.

Try C7/9-B20 at LAS.

I heard from a couple FAs (the second most informed people on the plane, other than the Captain) that DEN wouldn't become a crew base. They said WN requires crew bases to be maintenance stations and Denver charges airlines based on the inventory they keep at the airport, from vehicles to the rivets. Their comment was "it's too expensive" for WN to run a base there.

I don't know if I believe what the FAs said, but I sure don't want to connect from A to C. This will surely raise the MCT time to 40-45 minutes, up from 25 now.

Last time I was there, the train broke between the Jeppesen Terminal and A. People were told to walk to A then take the train. Not sure what happens if the train breaks somewhere between A and C.
 
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mariner
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:16 am

Quoting chrisair (Reply 21):
I heard from a couple FAs (the second most informed people on the plane, other than the Captain) that DEN wouldn't become a crew base. They said WN requires crew bases to be maintenance stations and Denver charges airlines based on the inventory they keep at the airport, from vehicles to the rivets. Their comment was "it's too expensive" for WN to run a base there.

Denver has a city tax on new aircraft and aircraft parts. Both United and Frontier had pushed for it to be removed, but no go. It was a major component of Republic's decision to move Frontier's heavy maintenance away from DEN.

I don't know if the tax has been rescinded since then - I have not heard that it has.

mariner
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WNCrew
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:25 am

Quoting chrisair (Reply 21):
I heard from a couple FAs (the second most informed people on the plane, other than the Captain)

HAHAHA! Since our information ricochets back and forth between the cabin and the flight-deck, I'd say we're all EQUALLY mis-informed when it comes to rumors.. LOL!

I've been told that we choose our bases based on RON aircraft in each station. The higher the number, the more likely the base. I don't know that DEN has as many RON's as we need for it to be a base, despite the number of daily flights. I could be totally off though...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
atrude777
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:37 am

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 23):

I've been told that we choose our bases based on RON aircraft in each station. The higher the number, the more likely the base. I don't know that DEN has as many RON's as we need for it to be a base, despite the number of daily flights. I could be totally off though...

I have heard the RON plays a high part in making the decisions.

At the moment, DEN has 10 RON's, will increase to 15 March 10th and beyond then back down to 11 June 3rd and beyond. DEN fluctuates up and down quite a bit in terms of RON.

Alex
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rampart
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:38 am

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 4):
We're exclusively in C yes? SO we'll have a split-terminal operation? Doesn't seem very passenger/connection friendly in a city where our pax have to change planes.

In other news, I see that we finally acknowledge the existence of hubs.

-Rampart
 
WNCrew
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:59 am

Quoting rampart (Reply 25):
In other news, I see that we finally acknowledge the existence of hubs.

Oh this gets so old. Of course WN has "hubs" "focus cities" "bases" whatever you want to call them. ALL airlines do! The existence/admittance of HUBS doesn't change the fact that MOST of our airplanes do not fly hub and spoke and are routed all over the system in a point to point manner.

MDW, DEN, BWI, LAS etc are all cities in which our passengers make connections, but you'll also see connections in BHM, TPA, and BNA which aren't quite as big.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
DBCooper
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:08 am

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 3):
Any idea who the A gates belong(ed) to???

WN is going to be using A51 and A53 which had been used by AS and FL.

AS will move from A51 to A52 and F9 will move from A52 to A24, a one-time F9 gate that currently is a "city" gate.

Odd that WN wants to go with a split operation - rumor is they are going to use that gate for operations to other "hubs" such as PHX, LAS and MDW...or keep FL only on A until they sort out the codesharing.


- DBC
 
QANTAS747-438
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:44 am

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 24):
At the moment, DEN has 10 RON's, will increase to 15 March 10th and beyond then back down to 11 June 3rd and beyond. DEN fluctuates up and down quite a bit in terms of RON.

LAX is the other rumored base, and we consistently have 14 RONS, regardless of the flight schedule.
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
rampart
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:57 am

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 26):
MDW, DEN, BWI, LAS etc are all cities in which our passengers make connections, but you'll also see connections in BHM, TPA, and BNA which aren't quite as big.

I agree. I was booking a flight on UA the other day. I had connection options, and not unreasonable, in MCI, ORF, BNA. On UA. Convergent evolution.

-Rampart
 
atrude777
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:58 am

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 28):

LAX is the other rumored base, and we consistently have 14 RONS, regardless of the flight schedule.

I am personally rooting for LAX, though I quite enjoy the overnights in Los Angeles when I traveled with the crew at Southwest, would be a shame to see it go away but if it benefits everyone all around!

I checked other RON and right now I show LAX at 12 RON...

In order that is not a crew base..

TPA-13 (717 Base I heard for FL?)
LAX-12
PHL-12
SAN-12
SMF-12
STL/DEN-10

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
QANTAS747-438
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:08 am

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 30):
I checked other RON and right now I show LAX at 12 RON...

Tonight is a Saturday schedule.
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
atrude777
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:14 am

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 31):

Tonight is a Saturday schedule.

I am using Jan 8th-Feb 10th schedule that lists the RON per city.

It's showing me 12, it dropped from 13 actually from the last schedule change.

Drops again to 11, June 3rd-Aug 10th schedule

Alex
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ADent
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:31 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 22):
Denver has a city tax on new aircraft and aircraft parts.

Also Colorado has business "personal property" tax.
 
chrisair
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:19 am

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 28):

LAX is the other rumored base, and we consistently have 14 RONS, regardless of the flight schedule.

It's quite fun watching the ramp play tetris with 737s in the morning, or at night. How you guys manage to fit those planes in there and get flights in/out is really impressive.

I suspect LAX will be the next base. It'll be an ETOPS base....that's also what the incredibly well informed FAs said. They mentioned the amount of money WN was spending on hotels in LAS before they made that a base. I don't recall the number, but it was large. Quite large.
 
usflyguy
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:43 pm

Rumor has it, WN is purchasing a warehouse really close to DEN that is outside the city limits for their MX materials store.

As for a crew base, speculation has included SAN as well...
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
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mariner
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:43 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 35):
Rumor has it, WN is purchasing a warehouse really close to DEN that is outside the city limits for their MX materials store.

To avoid the tax? That would be an interesting test case. It is my understanding that "first use" is the issue, which would still, presumably, take place at DIA.

Still, the tules may be different - or changed - for Southwest, who knows?

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mcg
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:11 pm

The irony is that it wasn't that long ago that F9 was using a couple gates on C to grow. That didn't last long.
 
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mariner
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:22 pm

Quoting mcg (Reply 37):
The irony is that it wasn't that long ago that F9 was using a couple gates on C to grow. That didn't last long.

Well - not quite. As long as I have followed Frontier (twelve years), it has never had use of any C gates.

There were three gates available on C and when Sean Menke was appointed CEO he requested them. He believed he had approval from DIA and Frontier published a schedule involving those two gates.

The it all hit the fan, and Frontier was "dis-allowed" those gates - they were, DIA said, to become common use gates. Except that Southwest was given exclusive use of them.

mariner

[Edited 2012-01-15 12:39:01]
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QANTAS747-438
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:45 pm

Quoting chrisair (Reply 34):

It's quite fun watching the ramp play tetris with 737s in the morning, or at night. How you guys manage to fit those planes in there and get flights in/out is really impressive.

Thank you. We have SO many restrictions and so little equipment and space that I don't know how we do it either. It's nice to be leaving work and every plane is in, everything is where it's supposed to be and to know that 30mins prior, we were sweating it doing gate changes and trying to coordinate everyone.

I really really hope LAX is not the next base.
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:49 pm

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 5):
The two A gates can be used as Originators in the morning where no connections are needed

Possibly as a P2P shuttle of sorts between DEN-LAS and DEN-SLC in addition to their flights which connect through DEN.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
737tdi
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:34 am

Was flying cockpit a few days ago and that crew believed that DIA was to be the next crew base. We (mechs.) were told that we are definitely going to have maint. there by mid year. I also have heard the rumor about the parts warehouse off the airport. Another thing to remember about LAX, although we have maintenance there we do not do RON maintenance there anymore.
 
QANTAS747-438
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:44 am

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 41):
Another thing to remember about LAX, although we have maintenance there we do not do RON maintenance there anymore.

Yeah, that's technically true. They are not here from 1245a-4a and therefore we are not an official "MX base". It's always fun to see the FOs faces when we tell them that they need to do a walkaround for RONs. They say, "But, but, isn't LAX a base?!" Yes, only for 21 out of 24 hours. During the time they are here, LAX is full MX.
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
sldispatcher
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:12 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 1):
now DEN got what they wanted, and now everyone else is leaving the party slowly but surely

Best quote!

Typical of WN's arrival into a city. Ask Oakland how that's working out for them now? If and when F9 is gone...and chased out by the city leaders of DEN and the flyers who choose WN over the other two...watch what happens....

DEN your non-stop choices will dwindle...you'll chase your flagship *UAL* carrier out of town that tried to provide service to cities that WN would never step their 10 flight a day schedule into.....

For those of you in DEN that buy that ticket on WN.com, remember that 5 years from now.
 
chrisair
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:18 am

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 42):
It's always fun to see the FOs faces when we tell them that they need to do a walkaround for RONs. They say, "But, but, isn't LAX a base?!"

Tell them to suck it up and they could be in Manchester where they'd be doing a walk around in the snow or ice.  
Quoting 737tdi (Reply 41):
I also have heard the rumor about the parts warehouse off the airport.

How does this work if parts need to be brought over during the day? I guess that's better than waiting for a part to be flown in from OAK or PHX...although that might be faster given that the airport is practically in Nebraska.
 
737tdi
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:38 am

Quoting chrisair (Reply 44):
How does this work if parts need to be brought over during the day? I guess that's better than waiting for a part to be flown in from OAK or PHX...although that might be faster given that the airport is practically in Nebraska.




Actually it has grown up quite a bit pretty close to the airport. The last time I was there fixing damage on an aircraft that blew both left MLG tires in the Continental hanger it took forever to get there from the hotel. Nothing but prairie dogs and wind.

Not sure what the plans are for transporting the parts. I am sure there would be a dedicated stores driver 24/7.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: WN Picking Up More Gates In DEN?

Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:29 pm

Quoting sldispatcher (Reply 43):
Typical of WN's arrival into a city. Ask Oakland how that's working out for them now?

And how is it working out in Nashville or Saint Louis?
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