jetblue777
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Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:31 pm

I was looking through wikipedia and I know it's not that reliable, considering what I have found has no citations but I guess it's worth mentioning and maybe some a.nutters could confirm.

Featured in the Iberia Destinations page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberia_destinations

Edit: It states that flights will start on April 1, 2012

JetBlue777

[Edited 2012-01-14 15:32:10]
It's a cultural thing.
 
Akiestar
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:48 pm

I'm extremely disinclined to believe this, even though I generally have faith in Wikipedia. There's nothing going around either in local news or in local forums.

[Edited 2012-01-14 15:48:59]
 
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TK787
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:07 am

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 1):
There's nothing going around either in local news or in local forums.

Any info about TK or any activity, ads, office space... for TK?
 
Akiestar
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:13 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 2):
Any info about TK or any activity, ads, office space... for TK?

As far as I know, none since their last pronouncement back in 2010-2011. The last thing that I heard was Jet Airways starting flights last month, but nothing came of it.

[Edited 2012-01-14 16:15:53]
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:14 am

Quoting jetblue777 (Thread starter):
Edit: It states that flights will start on April 1, 2012

I think the commencement dates says it all, April Fool's Day. I realise that the Philippines were, for over 300 years, under Spanish rule, but I am don't think that necessarily translates into viable traffic flows between the two countries. I don't see IAG in any hurry to start up services to Asia from MAD, but if they did I would expect the first destination to be a OW hub such as HKG,NRT ( or, less likely in my opinion, KUL) to be served long before MNL.
 
realsim
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:23 am

Not at all. I don't know why, but Iberia's page in Wikipedia every month or so shows a list of supposed new destinations that are literally invented.

Iberia doesn't have long range enough long range aircraft even for some logical and unrisky expansion (more BCN-MIA, BCN-GRU or more frequencies for MAD-BOG/MIA/HAV/etc.) Indeed, they are reducing frequencies this year because they are retiring some old 343 before the 333 arrive next year. So they don't have new aircraft to start any new route.

And, even in the case they were starting a new route to Asia (which would be a really big piece of news regarding IB), I bet it will not be to MNL, because HKG, NRT or PEK make much more sense. If I'm not wrong, since 1898, the cultural and economic ties between Spain and Philippines have shrunk to almost 0...
 
jfk777
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:24 am

The probably of Iberia flying to Manila next to zilch. Hong Kong would make much more sense, its closer and Cathay has connections to any city in Asia Ib's passengers could want to fly to.
 
Akiestar
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:36 am

Quoting realsim (Reply 5):
If I'm not wrong, since 1898, the cultural and economic ties between Spain and Philippines have shrunk to almost 0...

Not quite. There are almost 250,000 Filipinos in Spain (maybe more), the government is (slowly) reinstituting Spanish as a "Filipino" language and, if I'm not mistaken, there is a Spanish business presence in the Philippines.

[Edited 2012-01-14 16:36:59]
 
aer
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:29 am

If IB were to start service to Manila, it would be funny if they did it through Acapulco. If you know your history, you'll know what I'm talking about.
nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
 
EddieDude
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:10 am

LOL. Well, ACA-MNL is shorter than SIN-EWR hehe. It'd be nice to see a one-time MAD-ACA-MNL flight in 2027 to mark the 500th anniversary of the arrival of the first Spanish ship in the Philippines departing from Mexico. Not sure if that ship left from Acapulco or Zihuatanejo though.

Anyway, back on topic, I doubt IB will fly to MNL anytime soon... via BEY or wherever. Historic ties alone won't make a route work, and as many others have said, IB does not seem to be in a rush to fly to Asia... and if it does, HKG and NRT would seem a more logical first destination.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
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yyz717
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:25 am

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 4):
I realise that the Philippines were, for over 300 years, under Spanish rule, but I am don't think that necessarily translates into viable traffic flows between the two countries.

Well said. Not to mention the fact that:
1. there are few, if any, ethnic ties between the countries,
2. Spain is in the midst of a brutal recesssion, and
3. the Philippines remains the same third world economic basket case it has always been, which is never good for generating high yield business traffic.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
cedarjet
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:21 am

This isn't totally random. A variation of this route was planned a few years back the world's first / only "alliance" route - operated on behalf of oneworld by LAN Chile A340-300 from Madrid to Sydney, stopping in Beirut (definitely) and either Bangkok or Singapore or Jakarta. Would have been very unique and nearly happened.

As an aside, Beirut is totally "open skies" deregulated, any airline (OK, one exception, ho ho) can fly to anywhere with full traffic rights. Don't know why it's not used much, I know JAT's flights to DXB used to pick up and drop off punters in BEY, MH too, but it's already a well-served route. Since there's like half a million Philippino maids in Lebanon and no direct or cheap link (I guess it's EK), BEY-MNL might make sense.

So there's two reasons this might not be April Fools fantasy.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
luckyone
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:06 am

Wikipedia occasionally has a few off the wall bits regarding airlines. About five months ago it showed Vladivostok Air moving all its Moscos operations to Sheremetyevo. Also, within the last few weeks, the IB destinations page ommitted IB's service to Montevideo, though it was present on both the MVD and MAD pages as destinations served by Iberia. A few grains of salt are occasionally necessary.
 
cedarjet
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:43 am

Quoting luckyone (Reply 12):
A few grains of salt are occasionally necessary.

But, if you read the post above yours, you will see that the grains of salt may not be necessary in this case.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Akiestar
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:17 am

As a Filipino, allow me to correct some glaring misconceptions. Thanks.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 10):
1. there are few, if any, ethnic ties between the countries

Spain and the Philippines have always had strong ethnic ties despite the preeminence of the United States, and that's been present in my previous post. Spanish (and Latin American) culture have become more popular in the last 15 years, and the country celebrates Philippine-Spanish Friendship Day every year.

If Spain and the Philippines had minimal ties, King Juan Carlos I and Queen Sofia would have probably not gone to the Philippines in 1998 for our centennial celebrations, right? Or we would probably not care about (half-Filipino) Enrique Iglesias. Or the Philippine government would have not piloted Spanish-language instruction as a means of reinstitutionalizing the language (for several reasons, most notably that a lot of our history is still written in Spanish). Oh, and there wouldn't have been complaints from the Philippine government about galletas filipinos being called "Filipinos".

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 10):
3. the Philippines remains the same third world economic basket case it has always been, which is never good for generating high yield business traffic.

If it was such a basket case, it wouldn't be an NIC, it wouldn't have had over forty quarters of straight economic growth, people wouldn't have been more affluent, and foreign investment (despite it being small) would not be flowing in.

I will agree the Philippines is low-yielding, but it being low-yielding does not mean it's an "economic basket case". Indonesia is also low-yielding but it does not have such an economy. Does it mean now that it does?

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 11):
Since there's like half a million Philippino maids in Lebanon and no direct or cheap link (I guess it's EK), BEY-MNL might make sense.

There are only 30,000 Filipinos in Lebanon, and Lebanon has perennially been placed on Overseas Workers' Welfare Administration (OWWA) blacklists preventing Filipinos being deployed there. Several maids returned to the Philippines because of the deteriorating situation there, but some have chosen to stay behind.

Either way, Lebanon is not a major destination for OFWs. Unlike the other Middle Eastern countries, there was a ban on Filipino travel to Lebanon for several years (lifted only in the early 1990s), so it never really gained traction with the first OFWs who popularized countries like Saudi Arabia and the UAE.
 
UALWN
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:56 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 10):
2. Spain is in the midst of a brutal recesssion

Not really. Spain's GDP in 2011 grew by a tiny 0.2%. Not good, but hardly a brutal recession.
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Checo77
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:54 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 10):
2. Spain is in the midst of a brutal recesssion, and
Quoting UALWN (Reply 15):
Not really. Spain's GDP in 2011 grew by a tiny 0.2%. Not good, but hardly a brutal recession.

Exactly UALWN!!! I love how Americans (and Canadians) are sooo big experts on European economies. Brutal recession?  
Better watch and analyze your economies first, rather than comenting *** on things you don´t have a clue about overseas.

Adam
Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
 
Akiestar
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:18 pm

Quoting Checo77 (Reply 16):
Better watch and analyze your economies first, rather than comenting *** on things you don´t have a clue about overseas.

Actually, the Canadian economy is doing quite well in this recessionary economic climate.  

But I certainly agree with everything else.  
 
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yyz717
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:19 pm

Quote:
=Akiestar,reply=14]If it was such a basket case, it wouldn't be an NIC,

The Philippines is a very poor 3rd world country, despite the 40 years of economic you are quoting. These countries, barring a resource boom, do not generate much business traffic. That 30,000 Filipinos (your quote) have migrated to Lebanon (of all places) for a better life, it shows how bad things are in the Philippines.

Quoting Checo77 (Reply 16):
Quoting yyz717 (Reply 10):
2. Spain is in the midst of a brutal recesssion, and
Quoting UALWN (Reply 15):
Not really. Spain's GDP in 2011 grew by a tiny 0.2%. Not good, but hardly a brutal recession.

Exactly UALWN!!! I love how Americans (and Canadians) are sooo big experts on European economies. Brutal recession?
Better watch and analyze your economies first, rather than comenting *** on things you don´t have a clue about overseas.

Spain's unemployment rate recently hit 22.9%. See link:
http://articles.businessinsider.com/...nemployment-rate-eurostat-payrolls

Such a rate of unemployment is a recession in anyone's book.

All these points that I and others raise virtually nullify any chance of IB flying to Manila.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Akiestar
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:53 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 18):
The Philippines is a very poor 3rd world country, despite the 40 years of economic you are quoting. These countries, barring a resource boom, do not generate much business traffic. That 30,000 Filipinos (your quote) have migrated to Lebanon (of all places) for a better life, it shows how bad things are in the Philippines.

I am surprised that out of all people, a Canadian is lecturing me on the economic state of my country, and in particular the social state that I have to deal with every single day. I'm sorry, but who are you to judge the performance of my country's economy, and for that matter, how good (or bad) things are in the Philippines?

The fact that ten percent of the Philippines' GDP is anchored on OFW remittances does not necessarily imply that things are as bad as it seems back home (even though I myself am worried that the economic structure is flawed without further investment in industrial capacity and output). We have a booming services industry, particularly as evidenced by growth in the tourism and business process outsourcing sectors. There is a building boom in Metro Manila and other major cities throughout the archipelago. Several key pieces of infrastructure have been built, including the expansion, renovation and/or reconstruction of new airport terminal buildings. Tax collection is up despite slowing economic growth (ostensibly because the current administration stopped spending), and speaking of your resource boom, millions, if not billions, of dollars is being poured in to take advantage of the recently-deregulated mining industry which allows now for 100% foreign ownership of mining companies.

OFWs may have left the Philippines to provide for a better life for their families, but it is their money which helps keep the Philippine economy afloat, and it is (partially) their money which is fueling the current economic boom that the Philippines is experiencing. I have a lot to gripe about the Philippines too, and I know how bad things are back home despite me not being there at the current moment, but to generalize the Philippines as a "very poor Third World country" despite economic reforms being undertaken in the last 15-20 years does not take to account the fact that economic indicators are up (we have growing foreign exchange reserves, moderate inflation and a booming stock market, among others) and the social realities on the ground (people are in general more affluent now than they were 20 years ago, there's more disposable income, etc.). Yes, as an aviation market, the Philippines is low-yielding, and it will probably remain that way for a while, but to determine a country's economic state simply because of how much business traffic there is to MNL is simply a generalization that I cannot accept.

The Philippines, I'll admit, is no Thailand, Malaysia or China. But my country is not dirt-poor. We're getting by on what we have, and at least I'm proud to see my country pull itself up economically despite a disconcerting political climate and despite all the gripes that I may have about it. And if I have to defend the name of my country against the sweeping generalizations of foreigners who are probably looking at the Philippines from a distance, then by all means I will do so.
 
UALWN
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:48 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 18):
Spain's unemployment rate recently hit 22.9%.

That is correct.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 18):
Such a rate of unemployment is a recession in anyone's book.

It is not. In nobody's books. A recession is something pretty well defined: negative GDP growth year on year for two quarters in a row. A "brutal recession" is something like -10% GDP growth year on year. A +0.2% GDP growth may be a sign of trouble, but not a "brutal recession."
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realsim
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:56 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 15):

Not really. Spain's GDP in 2011 grew by a tiny 0.2%. Not good, but hardly a brutal recession.

  

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 18):
Spain's unemployment rate recently hit 22.9%. See link:
http://articles.businessinsider.com/...nemployment-rate-eurostat-payrolls

Such a rate of unemployment is a recession in anyone's book.

The standard definition of recession is two consecutive quarters of negative growth. But, anyway, situation in Spain isn't good, it's true, although I would say there's a lot of undeclared work.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 18):
The Philippines is a very poor 3rd world country, despite the 40 years of economic you are quoting. These countries, barring a resource boom, do not generate much business traffic. That 30,000 Filipinos (your quote) have migrated to Lebanon (of all places) for a better life, it shows how bad things are in the Philippines.

I don't like the term "third world" at all, but let me add just one thing: that a country is "poor" and doesn't generate business traffic doesn't mean they can't have long haul routes. There are plenty of examples of low yielding long haul markets that do work. And there are also many example of "poor" countries with long haul routes from European and American airlines (in Africa, for example).

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 19):
And if I have to defend the name of my country against the sweeping generalizations of foreigners who are probably looking at the Philippines from a distance, then by all means I will do so.

  
 
Checo77
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:48 am

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 19):
And if I have to defend the name of my country against the sweeping generalizations of foreigners who are probably looking at the Philippines from a distance, then by all means I will do so.

  

I experience the same about Peru. I am not Peruvian, but I live here and love it. I hear all the time about the generalizations people make about Peru. They probably never left their bubble somewhere in the "first-world" but are the best experts on other places.
I totally agree with you! I have not been to the Phillippines, but I can assimilate the situations of the Phillippines and Peru are very similar.

Adam
Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
 
airbazar
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:58 am

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 18):
The Philippines is a very poor 3rd world country, despite the 40 years of economic you are quoting. These countries, barring a resource boom, do not generate much business traffic. That 30,000 Filipinos (your quote) have migrated to Lebanon (of all places) for a better life, it shows how bad things are in the Philippines.

Bull crap. Nigeria is also a 3rd world country and yet LOS is a top yielding destination for every airline that flies there. The idea that 3rd world countries or small economies can't generate business traffic is nonsense. Every country, no matter how poor it is, has its fair share of business travel and high yield pax. EK seems to do well flying to the Philippines, as well as other Asian carriers. Pilippines' remoteness is a far bigger hurdle to operationg routes profitably from Europe than the demand, especially when having to compete with the likes of EK.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:19 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 23):
Quoting yyz717 (Reply 18):
The Philippines is a very poor 3rd world country, despite the 40 years of economic you are quoting. These countries, barring a resource boom, do not generate much business traffic. That 30,000 Filipinos (your quote) have migrated to Lebanon (of all places) for a better life, it shows how bad things are in the Philippines.

Bull crap. Nigeria is also a 3rd world country and yet LOS is a top yielding destination for every airline that flies there.

You actually just qualified my statement. Nigeria has an oil boom which is generating the high yields traffic. Thank you.

The Philippines has no such economic boom, and hence Manila is hardly a likely new destination for IB, or another other Western carrier for that matter in the foreseeable future.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Akiestar
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:49 am

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 24):
The Philippines has no such economic boom, and hence Manila is hardly a likely new destination for IB, or another other Western carrier for that matter in the foreseeable future.

TK announcing MNL as a new destination (whenever that will start) doesn't count, then?

I'll be glad to take your word for it if I even had an iota of inclination to not only believe what you're saying about my country, but also to actually know what you're talking about.
 
LatinPlane
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:39 pm

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 14):
Spain and the Philippines have always had strong ethnic ties despite the preeminence of the United States, and that's been present in my previous post. Spanish (and Latin American) culture have become more popular in the last 15 years, and the country celebrates Philippine-Spanish Friendship Day every year.

If the Philippines had minimal ties, King Juan Carlos I and Queen Sofia would have probably not gone to the Philippines in 1998 for our centennial celebrations, right? Or we would probably not care about (half-Filipino) Enrique Iglesias. Or the Philippine government would have not piloted Spanish-language instruction as a means of reinstitutionalizing the language (for several reasons, most notably that a lot of our history is still written in Spanish). Oh, and there wouldn't have been complaints from the Philippine government about galletas filipinos being called "Filipinos".


Spanish influence in The Philippines is evident, but minimal when compared with rest of the ex-Spanish colonies. When Iberia was a state-owned airline flying to destinations worldwide solely for political reasons (e.g., Madrid-Bombay-Tokyo) it chose not to extend the flight to Manila. Tokyo - Manila would have been an easy four-hour tag on, but there was never enough traffic to warrant the addition of Manila. This unlike other European airlines such as Air France/UTA which flew to every corner of the once vast French empire.

Iberia's route map, including the far east destinations:

http://airline-memorabilia.blogspot....7/iberia-1987-hechos-y-cifras.html

compared to French Air France/UTA:

http://timetablist.blogspot.com/2011...ch-airlines-worldwide-network.html

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/af/af66/af66-03.jpg

In Latin America, Spanish influence continued to be strong even after Independence and today it is the sole reason why IB has until recently been very profitable. When the U.S. took over control of the Spanish East Indies only the Filipino elite or educated spoke Spanish and it was the main reason why Filipinos became more Americanized.

For a very brief time in the early-50s when The Philippines was economically more advance than even Japan or Korea, Philippines Air Lines served Madrid as well as Mexico City (via San Francisco) to the west. It was the goal of Philippine Air Lines to reconnect Manila with its Spanish historical past and foster economic as well as cultural ties with both Spain and Latin America. However, this caused the airline heavy losses and soon all long haul flights were discontinued.

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/pr/pr52/pr52-3.jpg

With KLM leaving Manila and The Gulf carriers entrenched at Ninoy Aquino I see it very difficult that any European will land again at Manila in the near future. However, I do think The Philippines will economically emerge as one of those important BRIC countries in the next ten years at which point there will be a need for non-stop flights from Europe to Manila again.

Greetings from Makati!
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
tharanga
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:36 pm

Who makes such edits to wikipedia? What is the motivation?

Quoting UALWN (Reply 20):
It is not. In nobody's books. A recession is something pretty well defined: negative GDP growth year on year for two quarters in a row. A "brutal recession" is something like -10% GDP growth year on year. A +0.2% GDP growth may be a sign of trouble, but not a "brutal recession."

Actually, this is a slight misconception.

I don't know what the EU does, but in the US, it is the NBER who declares whether something is/was a recession or not (sometimes it's already almost over by the time they have enough statistics to make the diagnosis), and their metrics are actually more general than the popularly-cited two-consecutive-quarters-of-lower-GDP criterion you speak of.

http://www.nber.org/cycles/jan08bcdc_memo.html
http://www.bea.gov/faq/index.cfm?faq_id=485
 
Akiestar
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:58 pm

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 26):
With KLM leaving Manila

They're not leaving Manila. While they said that they're going to force AMS-MNL to stop in HKG, other, more recent, information seems to negate that: they're downgrading MNL to 772 service, but keeping it daily with no stop in HKG.

http://airlineroute.net/2011/12/15/kl-s12update5/

[Edited 2012-01-16 08:00:21]
 
mham001
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:14 pm

Quoting Checo77 (Reply 16):
Better watch and analyze your economies first, rather than comenting *** on things you don´t have a clue about overseas.

Given that the Spain's Economic Minister said just 2 weeks ago that Spain was (again) falling into recession and that they are in the middle (or near) of the Euro crisis, I'd say they did adequate analysis.

I am married to a Filipina and spend considerable time there. The country is indeed a basket case, although with some upward mobility. Between the corruption and Mother Nature, I am sad to say that I don't see the Philippines ever doing well by Asian standards in my lifetime.
Anecdotally, my wife, a professional engineer in Manila with 15 years of solid experience was making the equivalent of $250/month.
This route makes no sense.
 
zhiao
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:43 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 15):

Spain is forecast to shrink 2% this year which I would deem a very bad recession. What else do you call it?
 
zhiao
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:48 pm

Quoting realsim (Reply 21):
The standard definition of recession is two consecutive quarters of negative growth. But, anyway, situation in Spain isn't good, it's true, although I would say there's a lot of undeclared work.

Undeclared work is taken into account by convention. Read the European System of National Accounts. They estimate the undergound economy and add it GDP.
 
IBERIA747
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:06 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 30):
This route makes no sense.

Don't worry. It WON'T happen.

I still don't know how people can be so idiotic and start uploading totally false information just because "they feel like it", want to have some fun or they dreamed about it, without any logic or source. Of course I am NOT talking about the person who started this thread but about those who like to upload nonsense on wikipedia.

Iberia has NEVER said anything about starting flights to Manila. Even less via Beirut...

Quoting zhiao (Reply 31):
Spain is forecast to shrink 2% this year

Woah!! Easy there man!! May I ask where did you get this information?, because maybe there is something we don't know, or maybe BBVA, the European Comission, Oxford Economics, The Economist, etc just don't have the slightest idea about economics!!

http://www.ey.com/Publication/vwLUAs.../$FILE/Eurozone_forecast_Spain.pdf
http://www.bbvaresearch.com/KETD/fbi...tlook_tcm348-267433.pdf?ts=1612012
http://www.oecd.org/document/6/0,374..._33873806_45270278_1_1_1_1,00.html

Spanish economy was expected to enter recession during Q4 2011 and to come out of it in Q2 2012. Yes, things are far from being good, but have nothing to do with the information you have posted.



[Edited 2012-01-16 13:23:01]
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
LatinPlane
Posts: 2474
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 1999 11:05 am

RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:11 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 30):
Given that the Spain's Economic Minister said just 2 weeks ago that Spain was (again) falling into recession and that they are in the middle (or near) of the Euro crisis, I'd say they did adequate analysis.



Due to the harsh economic reality as well as the price of oil, IB's growth plans have drastically changed for the near future. Once very profitable IB is cutting back and with it dropping its plan to on develop secondary Latin American destinations like Cordova in Argentina which was cancelled just this past week. Hopefully new destinations like Los Angeles and San Salvador in Central America stay but with oil at 100+ a barrel again things don't look good.

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 28):

They're not leaving Manila. While they said that they're going to force AMS-MNL to stop in HKG, other, more recent, information seems to negate that: they're downgrading MNL to 772 service, but keeping it daily with no stop in HKG.

http://airlineroute.net/2011/12/15/k...ate5/

Thanks for clarifying that info. The gulf airlines have made it very difficult for any European airline to serve Manila non-stop.

It is interesting that Air France tries to fly to destinations in order for France to foster ties with former colonies. With the opening of Phom Phen, Cambodia, in addition to service to Vietnam, Air France has the Indo-China region well covered again. I don't know whether such a flight is profitable or even brakes even for that matter, but Air France tries to manage by tagging on such destinations with destinations that have demand like Bangkok.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQRxSEFolt8

[Edited 2012-01-16 14:13:25]
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UALWN
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Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:27 pm

RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:17 pm

Quoting zhiao (Reply 31):
Spain is forecast to shrink 2% this year which I would deem a very bad recession. What else do you call it?

I don't see where you got those numbers from. Spain is forecasted to be in a recession for two quarters this year, not for the whole year. And, in any case, if you think -2% is a "very bad recession," I don't know what you would call -7% (USA in 4Q 2008).

Quoting mham001 (Reply 30):
Given that the Spain's Economic Minister said just 2 weeks ago that Spain was (again) falling into recession

I'm afraid you made up that "(again)". Spain is forecasted to be in a recession this and next quarter, It was not in 2011.
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mham001
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:33 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 35):
I'm afraid you made up that "(again)". Spain is forecasted to be in a recession this and next quarter, It was not in 2011.


??? I don't know where you got the 2011 bit, I didn't say that, but are you denying Spain has not just come out of a nearly 2 year recession with only 2 successive quarters of growth? And technically, wouldn't the last quarter of 2011 be considered part of a theorized recession if it materializes?
 
zhiao
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:09 am

@UAL,


It's a forecast from various agencies.. And USA -7% was just for 1Q for 2009, which was a dreadful year, of course.
 
srbmod
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RE: Iberia, To Start Manila Via Beirut Service?

Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:13 am

This discussion has veered well away from the topic and to delete all of the off-topic posts (and any posts that referenced them) would completely gut this thread. As a result, this thread is now locked.

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