Guest

Why Do The Airlines Of Canada Keep Buying Airbus?

Sun Oct 08, 2000 11:48 am

I really am sick and tired of having no choice in the skies of Canada. First of all, Air Canada has practically all but eliminated their Boeing fleet. Only a few 767's and three 747's remain. Second of all, the airlines that do operate boeing have planes that are almost 30 years old! Where are the new boeings??? Third of all, Roots Air, the brand new full-fare airline, has ordered AIRBUS. Finally it seemed as though an airline would operate boeing but then it went ahead and followed the crowd. Westjet's recent order of 48 737-700's is no consollation. What if you in addition to hating airbus, you hate Westjet like I do? Maybe I should just stop hating everything.
 
AC183
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Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Why Do The Airlines Of Canada Keep Buying Airbus?

Sun Oct 08, 2000 11:56 am

Ummm, AC/CP have a fleet of nearly 50 767's, 7 744's, and 44 732's. And although some of these may be replaced by Airbuses, some will probably see Boeing replacements. The 767's are still the backbone of the fleet.

WestJet just ordered up to 94 firm/option 737NG's!!! And they're a very innovative, excellent airline.

And there are various other aircraft operating in Canada that are Boeing, at CanJet, First Air, Canadian North, Air Transat, Royal, Canada3000 and various freight operators.
 
tupolev154b2
Posts: 1269
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 9:01 am

RE: Why Do The Airlines Of Canada Keep Buying Airbus?

Sun Oct 08, 2000 12:10 pm

Seeing that you joined Airliners.net one hour ago, do not sound bloated and absolute as you did in your above post. Airlines buy aircraft based on their economics, not the nation they are loyal to. If AC finds that an A330/A340 fleet would suit their needs better than a 777 fleet, they go for them, not because they are loyal to the EU instead of the US. AC and CP both have large fleets of Boeing 747-400's and 767's while AC also has a sizeable fleet of DC-9's and CP 732's. Canada3000 also operates a good-sized fleet of Boeing 757's.

Please refrain from posting messages like the above that would only spin off conflicts.

Tupolev154B2
 
caribb
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RE: Why Do The Airlines Of Canada Keep Buying Airbus?

Sun Oct 08, 2000 12:20 pm

It seems we are really missing the 777 and variants or the 737, 757 and 767... after all Royal, Canada 3000 and Air Transat all offer 757s, Air Canada has 767s and many of the smaller airlines, and now Air Canada have 737s. It's not all that bad. Airbus are good aircraft too. I prefer the A320 over a 737-800 anyday as per the airlines I've flown them on (Air Canada vs Delta).. not to say another airline can't configure a 737-800 more comfortably than Delta.

In the end the 747-400 is probably too big to see them in large numbers up here. the 777 might be good for Trans pacific routes but so is the A340. The 767-400 comes at a time when the A330s are being delivered. the 757, if they need that size, might be the only logical option over the A321 if AC feels a need for it. I doubt they'd invest in A319s and A320s then switch them all for 737s... It may happen they'll add a few 777s if the economics makes it worth while. Anything can happen in this business. SIA swapped A340s for 777s a few years ago.
 
Guest

RE: Why Do The Airlines Of Canada Keep Buying Airbus?

Sun Oct 08, 2000 9:37 pm

CNBC...
You forgot the "Am I totally right or what?" which you put in your first post!!! Please try to make your statements more unbiased. It's very, very important in this Forum to criticize constructively... From your two posts so far, I can tell that you are quite an Airbus hater, so please, especially in those kind of topics take it very easy!!! Otherwise you'll regret it once the European members wake up....
 
Guest

RE: Why Do The Airlines Of Canada Keep Buying Airbus?

Sun Oct 08, 2000 10:50 pm


Yes the European members are waking up as Gyro said. Please stop posting such "Hate-topics" that are not based on anything.

But to answer your question :
>>> Maybe because the Airbuses they buy fit their needs and are good ??!!

B737-700
 
Airbus_A340
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Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2000 8:41 pm

RE: Why Do The Airlines Of Canada Keep Buying Airbus?

Mon Oct 09, 2000 1:21 am

How dare someone comment about airbus like that!
Well i guess the above posts are right europe has woken up. although i am in hong kong at the moment.
I maybe still a younger person but why do you place such a post?
If airlines choose airbus, they obviously have a reason, not because they do it for the fun of it. It is probably most suitable / economical for that particular airline's routes.
I would refaine from placing up such undiciplned and fair comments about one of the top aircraft manufacturers in the world. Boeing and Airbus are both respected aircraft companies and they both make wonderful aircraft. Different aircraft=more choice for more economical flights for airlines.
Regards
Trevor As Know As (AKA) Airbus_A340
People. They make an airline. www.cathaypacific.com
 
BOEING747-700
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RE: Why Do The Airlines Of Canada Keep Buying Airbus?

Mon Oct 09, 2000 2:01 am

I think that both Airbus and Boeing are good planes but Air Canada has a lot of Airbus planes so it would seem logical that they keep an Airbus Majority because of Crew Training.
 
Guest

RE: Why Do The Airlines Of Canada Keep Buying Airbus?

Mon Oct 09, 2000 2:20 am

"Canadian News Digest
By The Canadian Press
More apologies in Airbus affair
OTTAWA (CP) -- The government issued two more apologies Thursday in the Airbus affair as a dispute arose challenging Prime Minister Jean Chretien's denials of political interference in the case.
Ottawa said it's sorry to former Newfoundland premier Frank Moores and businessman Karlheinz Schreiber for language contained in a letter alleging they were involved in a kickback scheme with Brian Mulroney.
The Justice Department letter was sent to Swiss authorities in 1995 asking for help in an investigation of possible kickbacks from the sale of Airbus jets to Air Canada in the 1980s. "

I wonder if Mulroney still gets a sales commision  
 
Westjet_737
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Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 8:42 am

RE: Why Do The Airlines Of Canada Keep Buying Airbus?

Mon Oct 09, 2000 2:27 am

Airbus and Boeing both make fine aircraft. Lets please just live with what we got up here in Canada. If AC wants to order airbus, fine for them!!! At least we wont be stuck with the old 732's and DC-9's forever.


Westjet_737

 
MD-90
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RE: Why Do The Airlines Of Canada Keep Buying Airbus?

Mon Oct 09, 2000 7:34 am

I believe I have heard rumors on this forum of Airbus offering good prices on the A320 to gain market share..... Don't know if it's true myself.

And Delta, why did you have to buy those cramped 737-800s? Why couldn't you have continued your purchase of the quieter and more comfortable MD-90?


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Airbus_A340
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RE: Why Do The Airlines Of Canada Keep Buying Airbus?

Mon Oct 09, 2000 7:14 pm

MD-90, the 737-800 ARE not cramped, i just went on one recently with China Airlines and they are wonderful aircraft! At least they are spacious, depending what airline you fly with their seat pitch.
The 738 are the best 737 series i have ever been on and they are quiet and comfortable like you said with the md-90.
regards
Trev AKA Airbus_A340
People. They make an airline. www.cathaypacific.com
 
johnboy
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RE: Why Do The Airlines Of Canada Keep Buying Airbus?

Mon Oct 09, 2000 7:38 pm

LOL, my mom wouldn't know a Boeing or Airbus from a hole in the ground, but she recently flew from SFO to CVG on a DL 737-800, and she said it was the most cramped airliner she had ever been on! And this from a woman who usually flies only Southwest!
 
Tan Flyr
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Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:07 pm

RE: Why Do The Airlines Of Canada Keep Buying Airbus?

Mon Oct 09, 2000 10:43 pm

If I may take a broader scope here..some companies in Canada do have a bias against US companies & products. It is a struggle at times to compete against the Europeans, even when we do have a better product, service or price. I encounter it everyday. There may be , for whatever reason, a bias against Boeing now at AC. There really is some strange behavior at some firms there.

All we ask for is a level playing field. I do think the value of the Canadian dollar may have an effect on the isue of Airbus/Boeing.
 
Transat1011
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:14 am

Boeing In Canada

Mon Oct 09, 2000 11:04 pm

Hello,

Just a sidenote about Boeing in Canada (that was the original topic wasn't it ?)...
Air Transat plans to phase out some B752s in a near future (C-GTSF, is scheduled to leave fleet in February I believe). Some A310s will arrive shortly, replacing the L1011-1 still remaining (C-GTSX), some L1011-15s and some B752s as well.

Furthermore, C3K announced that they will add more A320s/19s to their fleet (leased from ILFC).
Oh well, I guess Airbus is consolidating (again) its position here in Canada...

Rgds,

F. Meunier
 
slawko
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RE: Why Do The Airlines Of Canada Keep Buying Airbus?

Tue Oct 10, 2000 1:42 am

Those 732's adn Dc9's will be flying cirlces around the airbus for years to come. As for why they buy them? Well that is easy it's because they are cheap to buy. When Wardair bought the A310 airbus gave them the airplane for FREE for one year, not payments what so ever. Then when that year was up, airbus turnned up the heat and started to milk Wardair dry. Same goes with all the other airbuses, they are not designed to last for 30-35 years, they are cheap to buy, and very expensive to repair/maintaine, so the AI phylosophy is buy it cheap, when it breaks get rid of it and get another one. That is why the charters and upstarts like Rootsair like them, because it cost almost nothing to buy them, and in a 5-10 years when they start to break apart, you dump them for new ones. As for why AC bought airbus, well I don't have a clue, but I am sure that the kick-back scandle had some role in it.
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
tupolev154b2
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RE: Why Do The Airlines Of Canada Keep Buying Airbus?

Tue Oct 10, 2000 1:48 am

Slawko:

Can you explain why the first A300 delivered to AF in the 70's continued with them through the 90's? How about AA's A300's? They still have all of ones they ordered so I'm pretty sure that the oldest one is older than 10 years old. Doesn't it depend more on the airline's maintenance of them?

No offense or anything, but just some questions.

Tupolev154B2
 
slawko
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Yupolev154B2

Tue Oct 10, 2000 2:26 am

I am not Talking about the old airbuses A300/310. I am talking about the new genereation of Airbuses all built with this "new" and innovative technology. A32X's-A3XX they are not built and designed to withstand the test of time, and AC has a good example of that, the DC-9's that they fly are some of the first -30's and they are still flying and with very high cycles, where as aircraft 201/202 the first two A320's in AC's fleet are constantly down for one maintinence snag or another, and I am not just speaking from personal experiance, but this is also what I hear from AC Mechanics all the time. I was simply stating that the new airbuses were built with the quick and easy phylosophy, where as planes like the DC-9 and the 732 were built to last and endure the tests of time and high cycles. Don;t get my wrong, I love the A310 and hope that ROYAL and Air Transat get lots more.
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
AC183
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RE: Yupolev154B2

Tue Oct 10, 2000 2:45 am

Slawko, I'm not sure that's entirely true. From what I've heard from heavy maintenance people working on 733's and 320's with comparable wear, and both roughly the same age (10 years old), and number of cycles, they seem to prefer working on the 'buses. Line maintenance is a totally different sort of environment, but if it's long term durability you're talking about it's the complete tear-down and overhaul that counts.

Also, I am told that some of AC's 320's now have as many cycles on them as their 727's when they were disposed of (as the 320's have operated at higher utilization, and AC's 727's were only about 15-20 years old at that point) and generally the results are good. Modern aircraft from all manufacturers are vastly more complex, but they fly more reliably and longer than previous generations.

AC bought the 320's, and continues to like them for several reasons. When they bought them all departments were consulted. Containerized freight is one very important factor. Operating economics. Passenger appeal. Even the operational departments favoured the 'buses when they got them. Also, don't forget that they didn't really have comparable Boeings available at that point, AC didn't want 733's, and the 757 was too big.