Mexicana757
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Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:09 am

Airtran today has applied to the DOT for permission to fly AUS/DEN-CUN services. In their application FL/WN proposes a start up date of May 25th for AUS-CUN and April 16th for DEN-CUN services. Flights will be flown with FL's 737-700s. Airtran requested the DOT the authority exemption be granted for two years and for the authorities to be granted as soon as possible.

Now we know why WN is getting gates at concourse A at DEN. Looks like WN is going for more US-CUN route authorities. I wonder what other routes to Mexico they will apply for out of DEN. Any guesses? PVR, SJD...

OST-2012-0007
ht tp://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=DOT-OST-2012-0007-0001
 
G500
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:19 am

Cancun is recovering nicely from the things that transpired in 2008-2009... I see more and more airlines applying to go there. Plus Virgin Atlantic is going in with the 747.....

best of luck CUN.
 
atrude777
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:20 am

Wow! Exciting times!

I had a feeling AUS-CUN was coming soon!

DEN-CUN is not surprising either.

If all comes together we'll be seeing SAT/AUS/DEN-CUN and based on the decision later MDW-CUN if that comes through as well.

FL already flies BWI/ATL-CUN and MKE as well (seasonal/charter?)

All together we'll be seeing MKE/BWI/ATL/SAT/AUS/DEN-CUN?

Alex
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ERJ170
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:26 am

4x week to daily for both service? Isn't that a bit much for AUS?
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G500
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:34 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 3):
4x week to daily for both service? Isn't that a bit much for AUS?

I think some other airline used to fly AUS-CUN, it did well with the college kids
 
QANTAS747-438
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:38 am

Why is FL applying for the cities that they've chosen? DEN, AUS, SNA, SAT?

Why not LAX, LAS, PHX, HOU, or some of the other bigger cities?
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atrude777
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:55 am

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 5):
HOU

Well..No FIS for one in HOU Hahahaha

There can only be THREE US Airlines flying from each route to CUN.

It is likely LAX-CUN is already taken, I am unsure about LAS/PHX-CUN.

The ones WN/FL are applying for is because there is an authority available for it.

Don't forget, WN has a partner in Volaris, while they aren't flying CUN-LAX/PHX and so forth, they are connecting them via Mexico City and such.

Alex

[Edited 2012-01-18 19:15:27]
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dia77
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:00 am

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 5):
Why is FL applying for the cities that they've chosen? DEN, AUS, SNA, SAT?

DEN is an obvious choice even though CUN-DEN is already served year round by UA and F9. This appears to follow WN's strategy of encroaching on F9's last few route monopolies using Airtran (DEN-CAK, DEN-DAY, and DEN-LGA to a lesser extent since UA and DL serve it as well). WN is clearly attempting to suffocate F9 - I would not be surprised to see other Mexico and Costa Rica routes.
 
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mariner
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:05 am

Quoting DIA77 (Reply 7):
WN is clearly attempting to suffocate F9

Why would this suffocate Frontier any more than any of the others? Most of the routes Frontier flies are common with Southwest.

mariner
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atrude777
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:12 am

Quoting DIA77 (Reply 7):
WN is clearly attempting to suffocate F9 - I would not be surprised to see other Mexico and Costa Rica routes.
Quoting mariner (Reply 8):

Why would this suffocate Frontier any more than any of the others? Most of the routes Frontier flies are common with Southwest.

While I see what you're saying DIA77, but I agree with Mariner, this is not any different.

In this time around, it's not WN attacking F9, its WN trying to build up CUN by adding as many US points as they can, DEN was a logical choice, and it just so happens F9 flies it.

But all WN is doing is trying to build up CUN, DEN was next along with AUS, and WN will continue to add any US that does not have 3 Authorities taken up.

Alex
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Bobloblaw
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:18 am

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 6):
Well..No FIS for one in HOU Hahahaha

Isnt CUN preclearence?
 
Jonathanxxxx
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:25 am

Quoting BobLoblaw (Reply 10):

Unbelievably no. With the amount of tourists you'd think it would.

Hope to see them do FLL-CUN.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:32 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 8):
Why would this suffocate Frontier any more than any of the others? Most of the routes Frontier flies are common with Southwest.

It's one of the few places WN hasn't been able to copy F9 until now, and possibly one of the few places F9 makes money?

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 6):
Don't forget, WN has a partner in Volaris, while they aren't flying CUN-LAX/PHX and so forth, they are connecting them via Mexico City and such.

Ha, yeah, no one is doing that. Even if CUN was an option on the Y4 codeshare. Try booking it--surviving a Japanese game show is easier.

Quoting BobLoblaw (Reply 10):
Isnt CUN preclearence?

Negative

Quoting g500 (Reply 4):
I think some other airline used to fly AUS-CUN, it did well with the college kids

VB, SY, CO, DL...
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mariner
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:37 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):
It's one of the few places WN hasn't been able to copy F9 until now, and possibly one of the few places F9 makes money?

Given the relationship with Apple Vacations and the CPA's, I assume that CUN, like most of Frontier's south-of-the-border routes, will continue to make money.

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WNCrew
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:43 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 13):
Given the relationship with Apple Vacations and the CPA's, I assume that CUN, like most of Frontier's south-of-the-border routes, will continue to make money.

Does F9 get a fixed amount for what the fly on behalf of Apple or do they get a percentage based on the seats sold?
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:48 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 13):
Given the relationship with Apple Vacations and the CPA's, I assume that CUN, like most of Frontier's south-of-the-border routes, will continue to make money.

Perhaps, but WN brings its own big artillery in the form of Southwest Vacations, which though new to the route, have some experience
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mariner
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:53 am

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 14):
Does F9 get a fixed amount for what the fly on behalf of Apple or do they get a percentage based on the seats sold?

I'm not sure how this morphed into Frontier, but in the case of the scheduled flights they're CPA's - capacity purchase agreements. Apple pre-purchases block of seats - very large blocks of seats in many cases.

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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:12 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
Perhaps, but WN brings its own big artillery in the form of Southwest Vacations, which though new to the route, have some experience

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything I've said. Apple Vacations and Southwest Vacations seem to have been able to coexist, lo, this long time.

I've already said - in another thread - that I think Southwest will do well on DEN-CUN. I am less certain about AUS-CUN.

mariner

[Edited 2012-01-18 20:13:11]
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dia77
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:13 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):
Quoting mariner (Reply 8):
Why would this suffocate Frontier any more than any of the others? Most of the routes Frontier flies are common with Southwest.

It's one of the few places WN hasn't been able to copy F9 until now, and possibly one of the few places F9 makes money?

  

Mexico has been a market that Frontier has largely had to itself from DEN (with a sprinkling of UA here and there). I guess my point is that F9 is really looking hard to find the last remaining money making opportunities (those opportunities were in routes like CAK, DAY, and Mexico) and WN is encroaching on those previously untouched routes.
 
usflyguy
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:05 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 17):

WN can feed AUS-CUN with flights from BNA, BWI, DAL, ELP, MDW, HOU, LAS, LAX, LBB, OAK, PHX, SAN and SJC with only one-stop in AUS if they are timed for it. Others that have tried it in the past didn't have the feed. DEN can be fed using O/D in addition to SLC, BOI, GEG, SEA, PDX, SMF, OAK, SFO, OMA, etc... Filling the flights won't be a problem; yields, on the other hand, may be.
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mariner
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:56 am

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 19):

Quoting mariner (Reply 17):

WN can feed AUS-CUN with flights from BNA, BWI, DAL, ELP, MDW, HOU, LAS, LAX, LBB, OAK, PHX, SAN and SJC with only one-stop in AUS if they are timed for it. Others that have tried it in the past didn't have the feed

Southwest will surely be able to do that - once the codeshare is approved - but I worry about routes that rely entirely on connections and other airlines, Legacy or LCC, have had real problems with AUS-CUN.

Maybe Southwest will be the exception.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 19):
DEN can be fed using O/D in addition to SLC, BOI, GEG, SEA, PDX, SMF, OAK, SFO, OMA, etc... Filling the flights won't be a problem; yields, on the other hand, may be.

As I said previously, I think DEN-CUN will be fine for Southwest. Cancun doesn't seem to have the problems besetting the Pacific Mexican resorts.

Quoting DIA77 (Reply 18):
Mexico has been a market that Frontier has largely had to itself from DEN (with a sprinkling of UA here and there). I guess my point is that F9 is really looking hard to find the last remaining money making opportunities (those opportunities were in routes like CAK, DAY, and Mexico) and WN is encroaching on those previously untouched routes.

If Frontier only flew to places that Southwest doesn't fly, it would be a very short list of destinations.  

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ScottB
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:47 pm

Quoting Mexicana757 (Thread starter):
I wonder what other routes to Mexico they will apply for out of DEN. Any guesses? PVR, SJD

I'd think that SJD would be the next, if only because they'll be serving SJD from SNA.

Quoting DIA77 (Reply 7):
This appears to follow WN's strategy of encroaching on F9's last few route monopolies using Airtran (DEN-CAK, DEN-DAY, and DEN-LGA to a lesser extent since UA and DL serve it as well). WN is clearly attempting to suffocate F9 - I would not be surprised to see other Mexico and Costa Rica routes.

Maybe yes, maybe no. DEN is in the top five WN airports by departures (top six if you include FL/ATL) so there's some logic in them adding non-stop service from DEN to what will be their largest international station. LAS-CUN is unlikely to happen since there's not a whole lot of demand. I'd expect to see them do PHX-SJD before PHX-CUN.

Quoting mariner (Reply 20):
I worry about routes that rely entirely on connections and other airlines, Legacy or LCC, have had real problems with AUS-CUN.

Maybe Southwest will be the exception.

Southwest does have better connecting feed at AUS to go along with its leading market share there; that might well be enough to make the market work.
 
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:59 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 17):
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything I've said.

You brought up Apple Vacations; they and WN Vacations are going to target the same vacation spending in DEN and connecting stations.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 19):
WN can feed AUS-CUN with flights from BNA, BWI, DAL, ELP, MDW, HOU, LAS, LAX, LBB, OAK, PHX, SAN and SJC with only one-stop in AUS

A lot of those already have cheap nonstop service to CUN, so they'd be getting some pretty cheap connections
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mariner
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:35 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):
You brought up Apple Vacations; they and WN Vacations are going to target the same vacation spending in DEN and connecting stations.

I brought up Apple simply to point out that Frontier is not flying DEN-CUN "on it's own", as is popularly believed.

Similarly, I would be shocked if Southwest were not flying the route "in conjunction" with a vacation packager, even if that packager is itself.

Airtran isn't flying MKE-CUN "on its own" - it has the Apple CPA for that, at least for this winter, while Frontier has (from memory) Funjet. Who gets what next winter is presently unknown to me, but if it stays with Airtran, then presumably Southwest Vacations will be in competition with Apple there with both fighting for Airtran - LOL. On the other hand, PIT-CUN/PUJ goes from Airtran to Frontier, as does BWI-PUJ.

It gets complicated.  

mariner

[Edited 2012-01-19 14:46:28]
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WNCrew
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:55 pm

The ruling should come out tomorrow January 30th right?
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Mexicana757
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:11 pm

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 24):
The ruling should come out tomorrow January 30th right?

You mean today January 30th?    

Yes the ruling came out today. The DOT has granted WN/FL the route authorities CUN-AUS/DEN.
OST-2012-0007

The ruling everyone has been waiting since last year is Chicago-CUN. Which should be announced by this Friday or sometime next week on who gets it, F9 or WN/FL.
 
WNCrew
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:21 pm

Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 25):
The ruling everyone has been waiting since last year is Chicago-CUN. Which should be announced by this Friday or sometime next week on who gets it, F9 or WN/FL.

THAT's what I was referring to... haha! Thank you. I have been flying too much and then commuted last night on a red-eye transcon so I'm a little "off.." Thanks!
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WNCrew
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:28 pm

Re: Chicago-CUN service

If I read the DOT Documents correctly it states "Replies: January 31st 2012"... so I'd assume we'll have an answer tomorrow?
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Mexicana757
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:42 pm

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 27):

If I read the DOT Documents correctly it states "Replies: January 31st 2012"... so I'd assume we'll have an answer tomorrow?

We should have answer by tomorrow if they stick with the deadline. I guess it may be tomorrow since WN/FL has thrown in one last answer/comment on F9's application.

OST-2012-0001-0006
 
LAXintl
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:47 pm

SWA announced the schedule today -

Denver - Cancun begins April 16th

Austin - Cancun commences May 25th.


story:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Southw...nounces-prnews-1372962368.html?x=0
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:29 pm

Interesting. Even though the code share is not in place yet, AUS-CUN will still get some feed from HOU and SAT-CUN & SAT-MEX will also get some feed from HOU.

Quote:
In addition to the new international service, AirTran will operate new domestic roundtrip service between Houston Hobby and San Antonio and between Houston Hobby and Austin to support the international flying. The new service between Houston and San Antonio begins May 24, 2012, and the new service between Houston and Austin begins May 25, 2012. Both roundtrips are scheduled to operate through the end of the current flight schedule (which is Sept. 28, 2012).

LoneStarMike
 
nomorerjs
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:00 pm

MDW - CUN announcement soon? Would be nice to find out if / when this happens!
 
bjorn14
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RE: Airtran Applies For AUS/DEN-CUN Authorities

Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:58 pm

Anybody know where I can find out who has authorities for USA-MEX(ico)?
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