tinosky
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LH To Axe YYC

Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:22 pm

Good afternoon everyone,

Came across this article in the news this morning. Looks like LH is ending the 22 years of service to YYC. Last date of service is the 4th of Feb.

Link to article (not much information):

CBC News Calgary

Any more info on the reason for this? I took a flight last fall to FRA with LH. The flight was full both ways?!

Wonder if AC will dedicate a 77W?

thanks,

Tinosky.
 
ACT7
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:30 pm

Quoting Tinosky (Thread starter):
Good afternoon everyone,

Came across this article in the news this morning. Looks like LH is ending the 22 years of service to YYC. Last date of service is the 4th of Feb.

Link to article (not much information):

CBC News Calgary

Any more info on the reason for this? I took a flight last fall to FRA with LH. The flight was full both ways?!

Wonder if AC will dedicate a 77W?

thanks,

Tinosky.

It's not really 22 consecutive years of service. They flew to YYC in the 80's and stopped it in 1988, and then started again in 2008. The market simply isn't big enough or profitable enough. Loads have nothing to do with yields and the paying business pax numbers just weren't there. AC will be switching to 333 instead of the current 763.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:32 pm

Thanks for the post - this was actually already discussed a few months ago  Lufthansa To Discontinue Calgary (by mah4546 Nov 4 2011 in Civil Aviation)

In summary, the YYCFRA market is not large enough to support two carriers on the route. Most of the higher-yielding O&G traffic to YYC is headed by ways of LHR and AMS, and the lower yielding connecting traffic is picked up for scraps by LH over Frankfurt. With AC and LH having ATI, they can consolidate their ops onto the pre-existing daily flight on AC metal to retain some market share, but there is no need for overkill to have two partners flying the same route. The freed up LH aircraft can be sent to a more profitable long-haul market (or retired).

Also....I don't think that LH has been in YYC for over 22 years....where did you get that from?
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Kaiarahi
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:34 pm

If it's as coordinated as reported (LH cancels, AC up-gauges), it looks like *A / ATI rationalization. Normally airport authorities don't like losing an airline, but in this case the authority was quite sanguine - “The most important thing that we're focused on is looking at making sure that we have the connections and the seats available to passengers, and we definitely have that still,” said Jody Moseley with the Calgary Airport Authority.

[Edited 2012-01-23 13:43:01]
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ACT7
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:38 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 2):
Also....I don't think that LH has been in YYC for over 22 years....where did you get that from?

Yes, that is clearly not correct.
 
tinosky
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:43 pm

Quoting ACT7 (Reply 4):
Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 2):
Also....I don't think that LH has been in YYC for over 22 years....where did you get that from?

Yes, that is clearly not correct.

Sorry about that. I swear I thought they were in service since the 80's. I flew LH to FRA back in 99. I clearly remember this as I still have a LH napkin from that flight (yes, I know im a airline nut). Regardless, Just sad to see a great airline leave. I guess it's a good thing for AC though!  

cheers,
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:02 pm

Quoting Tinosky (Reply 5):
Sorry about that. I swear I thought they were in service since the 80's. I flew LH to FRA back in 99. I clearly remember this as I still have a LH napkin from that flight (yes, I know im a airline nut). Regardless, Just sad to see a great airline leave. I guess it's a good thing for AC though!  

No worries, it was just off and on I believe. As far as the napkins, I also have a few stored somewhere back at home. Not uncommon here on a.net. Most of them are from the earlier days when they used to be very cool and had the airline logos on them, before they became clogged with advertisements and other enhancements that make them less cool to keep as souvenirs.

Then again, I can understand why, they are a revenue generator if they have ads on them  
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
Jean Leloup
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:39 pm

Well, the Star Alliance rationalization makes sense, but it is sad to see an airline go. As busy and growing as YYC theoretically is, there's not much variety here.

Does anyone know how BA is doing on their route? I would hope that they are in a more stable spot... particularly as I just converted all my credit card points into Avios.  

JL
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Viscount724
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:53 pm

Quoting Tinosky (Reply 5):
Quoting ACT7 (Reply 4):
Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 2):
Also....I don't think that LH has been in YYC for over 22 years....where did you get that from?

Yes, that is clearly not correct.

Sorry about that. I swear I thought they were in service since the 80's. I flew LH to FRA back in 99.

I flew LH FRA-YYC-YVR in October 1988. At that time YYC was an intermediate stop en route to YVR. I think they dropped YYC stop soon after. It was a DC-10-30 then.

It makes little difference now who flies the route since AC and LH have had a revenue-sharing joint venture for quite a few years.

[Edited 2012-01-23 14:53:40]
 
Avianca
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:31 am

Quoting ACT7 (Reply 1):
It's not really 22 consecutive years of service. They flew to YYC in the 80's and stopped it in 1988, and then started again in 2008. The market simply isn't big enough or profitable enough. Loads have nothing to do with yields and the paying business pax numbers just weren't there. AC will be switching to 333 instead of the current 763.

well I am surprised that the yields are not high, well their might be a big share of tourists on the flight but also on high yield business pax specially for the oil industri connecting on many LH flights out of FRA
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ACT7
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:22 am

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 7):
As busy and growing as YYC theoretically is, there's not much variety here.

Unfortunately YYC has had virtually no growth this year, particularly in international pax. In fact that segment is down YoY. U.S. traffic is up by about 1,100 people this year so for all intents and purposes, no growth. The reality seems to be that, while Calgary is considered a hub for AC, it is a domestic airport with some international service.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 9):
well I am surprised that the yields are not high, well their might be a big share of tourists on the flight but also on high yield business pax specially for the oil industri connecting on many LH flights out of FRA

J class is always hard to guage because several of those seats could be filled with upgraded bums. LH would not have pulled out if it was a high yielding flight, regardless of their *A partnership with AC. They fly into several *A hubs around the world along with their partners.
 
lax888
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:45 am

Will they start a new route with the plane or will they reduce capacity?
 
Rara
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:58 am

Quoting ACT7 (Reply 1):
Loads have nothing to do with yields

I keep reading that here, but it's not really true, is it? Loads and yields are not the exact same thing, but if an airplane is empty, it's a pretty safe bet the operator isn't making any money with it. If it's filled to the brim, demand must have been high, so the prices could have been held high. There are exceptions both ways, but you can't say that loads and yields have no connection at all..
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Ferminios
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:02 pm

Quoting Rara (Reply 12):
if an airplane is empty, it's a pretty safe bet the operator isn't making any money with it

Well, unless you can take a look in the belly of the aircraft, you still don't know.

Yields and loads are only slightly related. If you're flying a plane full of $250 return fares FRA-YYC , you bet they won't be making any money unless there's significant cargo on board.  
 
Hirnie
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:15 pm

Quoting Ferminios (Reply 13):
Yields and loads are only slightly related

Correct. But they are related.

Quoting Ferminios (Reply 13):
you bet they won't be making any money unless there's significant cargo on board.

I think cargo is by far overrated by a lot of people here on this forum. As long as a carrier can't make money on a route, cargo won't change this. Cargo can improve the performance of a route, but it is no "Gamechanger".


Sad to see LH pull out of YYC. Hopefully the route performs good for AC so that they can gauge up to a 77W.   
 
tinosky
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:34 pm

Quoting Hirnie (Reply 14):
Sad to see LH pull out of YYC. Hopefully the route performs good for AC so that they can gauge up to a 77W

Totally agree, would love to see some 77W action in YYC. I do know that they randomly had 77W's in the summer season. I have seen them many times flying over my house. Maybe more in the future?

Tinosky,
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:29 pm

With the little to no growth this year, especially in the intl sector, i wonder how AC's plans will turn out ref. YYC-NRT 5x weekly, and year round (although most likely not 5x weekly in the winter, but back down to 3x).

Thenoflyzone
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ACT7
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:36 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 16):
With the little to no growth this year, especially in the intl sector, i wonder how AC's plans will turn out ref. YYC-NRT 5x weekly, and year round (although most likely not 5x weekly in the winter, but back down to 3x).

Thenoflyzone

I was wondering the same thing. I wonder how well that flight would do if it didn't start and end in YYZ too. Unfortunately, YYC is the only major airport in Canada to post a loss in international traffic this year (at least up until the end of Nov.) so it will also be interesting to see how their massive, and in my opinion, way too ambitious expansion plays out.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:47 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 9):
well I am surprised that the yields are not high, well their might be a big share of tourists on the flight but also on high yield business pax specially for the oil industri connecting on many LH flights out of FRA

It's because two daily flights was an excess of capacity on this route, which in turned diluted the yields for both AC and LH. One single daily flight operated by one carrier is sufficient, especially if they have ATI. And, as I mention above, the pool at YYC is small when you have KL flying to AMS and BA and AC to LHR to compete against.

Quoting ACT7 (Reply 10):
The reality seems to be that, while Calgary is considered a hub for AC, it is a domestic airport with some international service.

It's like how DEN is to the UA network.

Quoting ACT7 (Reply 10):
They fly into several *A hubs around the world along with their partners.

Yes, but the market conditions are not the same for every city pair. Notice how both YVR and LAX are only connected to Frankfurt by LH. Air Canada does not fly YVR-FRA nor does UA fly LAX-FRA.
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
ACT7
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:56 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 18):
It's like how DEN is to the UA network.

Yup, exactly. 52 MM pax a year, 90% of which are domestic. YYC is about 70% domestic.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 18):
Yes, but the market conditions are not the same for every city pair. Notice how both YVR and LAX are only connected to Frankfurt by LH. Air Canada does not fly YVR-FRA nor does UA fly LAX-FRA.

True. And LH does not fly YUL-FRA, although they do fly to MUC.
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:56 pm

I think this is a result of the cross Atlantic agreement between UA/LH/AC. It makes sense for AC to upgauge up to a 777 eventually than pay for two flights when frequency isn't required on the route. If the market grew beyond the 777 then LH would consider the B748i. Under the agreement it would be seemless for the traveler, with both airlines marketing the flight as if it was their own. I think the volume out of YYZ is such that two flights will continue and the frequency is a bit important for connections at FRA. But we could see some capacity shifting between the two airlines. For example we might see a 787/748 combination sometime in the future. Or more cargo shifted to LH Cargo and three flights with smaller aircraft than the 77W, 346 etc. All sorts of shifts are now possible without a financial penalty to either partner. There already is revenue sharing to FRA.
 
tinosky
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:05 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 16):
With the little to no growth this year, especially in the intl sector, i wonder how AC's plans will turn out ref. YYC-NRT 5x weekly, and year round (although most likely not 5x weekly in the winter, but back down to 3x).

Thenoflyzone

I am hoping this route will be fine. I fly the YYCNRT route often and it does make a huge difference in convenience. Many of my friends fly back home often and they always look forward to the seasonal direct route. Should be interesting to see how well it does this year. If anything, they would reduce to 3x weekly?

Looks like AC already has the direct route ready to book online, starting end of March.

Tinosky,
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:14 pm

Quoting Tinosky (Reply 21):
I fly the YYCNRT route often and it does make a huge difference in convenience.

If this route to NRT works for DL from SLC, than AC should do just fine with this. Interestingly LH has looked at non-Star cities in North America in the past. They've also approached the SLC Department of Airports in the past for SLC-FRA, hence part of the ambitions of SLC to upgrade their facilities much like YYC.
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ACT7
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:15 pm

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 20):
I think the volume out of YYZ is such that two flights will continue and the frequency is a bit important for connections at FRA. But we could see some capacity shifting between the two airlines.

It's actually 3 flights daily between AC and LH. LH is increasing capacity this summer with the reintroduction of A346.

I think in YYC's case, if the demand/yield got to a certain point then we would certainly see at least partial 77W service. But with most of AC's 77W's and 77L's already spoken for on very high yielding routes, that may be a long ways away.
 
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:40 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 18):
Notice how both YVR and LAX are only connected to Frankfurt by LH.

well LAX is since many years conected to MUC as well by LH
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:44 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 22):
If this route to NRT works for DL from SLC, than AC should do just fine with this. Interestingly LH has looked at non-Star cities in North America in the past. They've also approached the SLC Department of Airports in the past for SLC-FRA, hence part of the ambitions of SLC to upgrade their facilities much like YYC.

SLCNRT is actually being canned in S12. However, it's somewhat of a redundant route given that there are already 4+ west coast gateways to NRT on Delta: SEA, PDX, SFO and LAX, plus the LAXHND flight, so the necessity of SLCTYO may have been questionable.

YYCNRT I think has a better fight for survival.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 24):
well LAX is since many years conected to MUC as well by LH

Right, but my point was that there are many routes between big city pairs that are only served by one carrier, even if both of them are hubs to partner airlines. For example, ORDZRH connects a UA hub to an LX hub, but it is only served on LX metal even though the service is going up to more than daily this summer.
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
Viscount724
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:56 pm

Quoting Hirnie (Reply 14):
Sad to see LH pull out of YYC.

That must make LH the only carrier to pull out of YYC twice. BA and KL both did it once.
 
ACT7
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:21 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 26):
That must make LH the only carrier to pull out of YYC twice. BA and KL both did it once.

Unfortunately, it wouldn't surprise me if BA pulls out again. If international traffic is down or flat again this year, it may simply mean that the market is not big enough for two flights to LHR. KL, I can see staying for a while given there recent announcement of increased frequency. My gut feel is that of the flights to LHR, AC is much more successful on the route than BA given its longer tenure with the service.
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:38 pm

Quoting ACT7 (Reply 27):
KL, I can see staying for a while given there recent announcement of increased frequency

They announced the same thing last year, and it never happened.

Recession in Europe, recent oil pipeline project down the drain in AB...if the economy continues the way it is, YYC could see another European carrier call it quits.

Thenoflyzone
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ACT7
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:52 pm

Not to mention AA stopping ORD service. I know AA is having issues but this has also been an on again, off again service that just can't seem to stick.
 
Hawaiian763
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:01 pm

Quite sad to see LH pulling out of YYC, always loved seeing the 343, was a nice change from the seeing AC and WS metal all the time.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:30 am

Quoting Rara (Reply 12):
There are exceptions both ways, but you can't say that loads and yields have no connection at all..

Agreed, until one realizes airlines are like night clubs. If its empty, the word gets around that 'no one fly XX' and the flight truly goes bust. So there must be discounting to keep the seats full to a moderate load factor.

Because of that 'nightclub effect,' airlines will often sell seats to 'bulk buyers.' That could be J class to the YYC based energy companies or a European tour operator trying to sell packages. While those deals fill seats, they usually are not filling seats at a profit. Those bulk buyers then turn around and 'dump' seats (if any aren't sold). I know of many a 'cheapskate' who flies J via that means.

Part of the issue might be aircraft. Is it still an A343? Its tough to make money with one of those against an A330. AC will also have a bit of the 'home market advantage' selling seats.

Quoting Hirnie (Reply 14):
Cargo can improve the performance of a route, but it is no "Gamechanger".

Depends. DL would rather fly empty seats SLC-NRT as the cargo pays more than the final seats (A332s with Pratts are weight limited out of SLC).   EK, back in the days of $35/bbl oil, would fly empty (or nearly empty) widebodies for the profitable cargo revenue. Now, cargo yields have dropped and oil prices went up. So my EK example is no longer valid. But cargo can be the difference between an acceptable profit and a back-breaking loss on *some* routes.


Lightsaber
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cyeg66
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:50 pm

Quoting ACT7 (Reply 17):
I was wondering the same thing. I wonder how well that flight would do if it didn't start and end in YYZ too.

....could be said for most flights out of YVR, too. Ever notice the number of heavies flying YYZ-YVR-onward...? Virtually the same thing with many of those routes.
slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
 
boeingorbust
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:13 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 28):
Recession in Europe, recent oil pipeline project down the drain in AB...if the economy continues the way it is, YYC could see another European carrier call it quits.

Yes but I wouldn't count on the pipeline being down permanently. The States really has no choice especially if they are trying to get more oil, increase jobs and lower fuel prices. There's also talks of a pipeline to the coast to send oil to Asia... Only a matter of time before both these projects are on the go.

With all the international talk recently at YYC I wonder what other carriers will opt in or out... YYC seems to be counting on a lot more international traffic with their expansion project... Probably more so from Asian carriers I imagine. I can't see BA pulling out just yet... IMHO!!
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:46 pm

Quoting Boeingorbust (Reply 33):
YYC seems to be counting on a lot more international traffic with their expansion project... Probably more so from Asian carriers I imagine. I can't see BA pulling out just yet... IMHO!!

Which Asian carrier? The most likely candidates would be NH or CA.

NH doesn't even serve YVR or YYZ, as for CA, their North American network is pretty weak to begin with. Don't see them entering a secondary market in NA.

Quoting Boeingorbust (Reply 33):
I can't see BA pulling out just yet... IMHO!!

I dunno. BA has been bleeding the last two years now. Some routes could be up on the chopping blocks. Not saying LHR-YYC is one of them, but seems to me that this route should have been a 772 by now. Hard to see how BA can make money on such a long flight with only 189 seats on board.

Thenoflyzone
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Viscount724
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:53 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 34):
but seems to me that this route should have been a 772 by now

It was a 772 when BA first re-started LHR-YYC in December 2006 after about 23 years absence. Initial schedule was 5 x week 772. Forget when it was downgradd to 763 but I think the 772 lasted at least a year or so.
 
tinosky
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:22 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 34):
Which Asian carrier? The most likely candidates would be NH or CA.

My best friend flew back from Korea last summer. KAL had a direct flight to YYC from ICN. I was quite suprized and almost didn't believe him that it was a direct flight. Sure enough, saw the 772 fly over my house just after picking him up. Maybe seasonal charter?

Hope to see a weekly flight from ICN and other asian destinations.

Tinosky,
 
threepoint
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:58 pm

Quoting cyeg66 (Reply 32):
....could be said for most flights out of YVR, too. Ever notice the number of heavies flying YYZ-YVR-onward...?

There's precisely one: AC 33/34 that serves YYZ-YVR-SYD. All other widebody flights between YYZ & YVR are separate flight numbers serving a major domestic trunk route rather than a continuation of an overseas route. This arrangement enables a higher aircraft utilization and positions aircraft from longer overnight flights. Both cities are able to sustain their int'l nonstop routes without the need of a tag-on partner.
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Viscount724
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:06 am

Quoting threepoint (Reply 37):
Quoting cyeg66 (Reply 32):
....could be said for most flights out of YVR, too. Ever notice the number of heavies flying YYZ-YVR-onward...?

There's precisely one: AC 33/34 that serves YYZ-YVR-SYD. All other widebody flights between YYZ & YVR are separate flight numbers serving a major domestic trunk route rather than a continuation of an overseas route.

I think there are precisely two. You are overlooking AC 63/64 YYZ-YVR-ICN, 763.
 
threepoint
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:31 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 38):
I think there are precisely two.

Serves me right for not fact checking; especially as I wondered about ICN as I typed my answer.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
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longhauler
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:50 am

Quoting threepoint (Reply 37):
There's precisely one
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 38):
I think there are precisely two

I am going to say three.
007/008

YYZ-YVR-HKG/HKG-YVR-YYZ

Any more?
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
threepoint
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:03 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 40):
I am going to say three.

Well done for not using the word 'precisely'; wish I had pressed the 'check before typing' button...

I'm going to qualify the HKG mention as there is nonstop HKG service from YYZ and I doubt the YVR service relies upon YYZ passengers to ensure its viability.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
YVRLTN
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:21 am

Quoting threepoint (Reply 41):
I'm going to qualify the HKG mention as there is nonstop HKG service from YYZ and I doubt the YVR service relies upon YYZ passengers to ensure its viability.

Thats right, the three flights. As you say, YVR is able to sustain itself and its about keeping the aircraft flying through the system to avoid lengthy ground time. YVR has a very large and wealthy Asian population which can fully support all the widebody flights - 16 a day some days after a quick count up - and while I know the Asian population is growing in YYC, it will be a long time before it will have that level of service.

Anyway, not sure what that has to do with LH quitting YYC   I know AC would like a 77W for the cargo uplift - yes it is important - but there are none available, so the 333 is the next best option.

I really think LH Cargo could make a YYC flight work at least once a week with an MD11. The O&G connections for Kazakhstan & Nigeria for example would be a huge winner for them. The only true freighter service from western Canada to Europe is CV and space is like hens teeth.
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Whiteguy
Posts: 1017
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:14 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 42):
I know AC would like a 77W for the cargo uplift - yes it is important - but there are none available, so the 333 is the next best option.

A lot of cargo used to be hauled on AC FRA flight but they lost a lot of it to Cargolux and BA. Downgrading FRA from an A343 to an A333 sure didn't help.

There is more money made on the LHR flight with cargo hence the B77W during the summer.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 42):
I really think LH Cargo could make a YYC flight work at least once a week with an MD11.

I doubt it since they could haul a fair amount of cargo on the 340. If they were hauling enough cargo they would've kept the route.
 
YVRLTN
Posts: 2262
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:49 pm

RE: LH To Axe YYC

Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:04 am

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 43):
There is more money made on the LHR flight with cargo hence the B77W during the summer.

AC just route their cargo through LHR instead, most of it connects with EK ironically.

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 43):
I doubt it since they could haul a fair amount of cargo on the 340. If they were hauling enough cargo they would've kept the route.

Its all about the big picture. But with a big drop in capacity on the pax aircraft, there will now be a place for a low frequency freighter service IMO to compete with CV, as I said markets like the CIS where LH are strong via their ALA hub should be a winner for them. Remember by default BA reduced their own cargo capacity with the 767.
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Whiteguy
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:14 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 44):
AC just route their cargo through LHR instead, most of it connects with EK ironically

Partly true but a large amount of cargo to FRA was the horse meat contract. When it was operated with an A343 they could haul 5 or 6 4000 kg pallets of horse meat. When it was down graded to an A333 you could only get a couple on due to weight restrictions. Most of this contract was taken over by Cargolux.
 
YVRLTN
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RE: LH To Axe YYC

Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:29 am

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 45):
Most of this contract was taken over by Cargolux.

So in turn CV now have less capacity to offer, we have to go to SEA generally to get on them, though the new 748 may help a little.

Anyway, Im sure AC & LH did the math and what they have done is the most economical solution. I wouldnt be surprised if YVR goes 346 year round to compensate a little, plus the 343's are slowly beginning to be retired anyway.
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Whiteguy
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

RE: LH To Axe YYC

Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:19 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 46):
So in turn CV now have less capacity to offer, we have to go to SEA generally to get on them, though the new 748 may help a little.

The B748 actually came through YYC yesterday from SEA, not sure if it's a regular thing!

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 46):
Anyway, Im sure AC & LH did the math and what they have done is the most economical solution. I wouldnt be surprised if YVR goes 346 year round to compensate a little, plus the 343's are slowly beginning to be retired anyway.

Exactly.

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