nantoine
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First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:37 pm

I just noticed that the first KLM A330-300 is on the flight line in TLS today, fully painted.

Has anyone managed to snag a pic?
 
A388
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:49 pm

Apparently the aircraft is behind a building or hangar near a Beluga and only the tail section can be seen from public locations. Looking forward to seeing the first photos and hoping to see it here in CUR soon as MD11 replacement!!!

A388
 
DALCE
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:52 pm

I don't think KL will deploy it to CUR, I can see a 772ER operating to CUR, but no 333's for the first 5 or 6 years.

When is the first KL 333 due for delivery?
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
Hacku
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:48 pm

http://www.aviavliegwereld.nl/archives/1412

First delivery is scheduled for March. KLM will fly the A333 to Lagos, Washington Dulles and Accra.
 
A388
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:10 pm

Quoting Hacku (Reply 4):

First delivery is scheduled for March. KLM will fly the A333 to Lagos, Washington Dulles and Accra.

That clears it up, thanks. I don't understand why KL always decides to use brandnew aircraft to destinations in Africa where they have no direct competition while their routes to the Caribbean does have competition. Are these African destination so high yielding that they need brandnew aircraft?

I can see DALCE's points as KL has always had a policy of sending their oldest aircraft to the former Netherlands Antilles/Caribbean but I never understood why the mentioned African destination do get brandnew aircraft while they have no direct competition on those routes. Is competition from surrounding EU countries to these destinations so important that brandnew aircraft are a must on these routes?

A388
 
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:02 pm

Quoting DALCE (Reply 2):

I don't think KL will deploy it to CUR, I can see a 772ER operating to CUR, but no 333's for the first 5 or 6 years.
Quoting A388 (Reply 4):
That clears it up, thanks. I don't understand why KL always decides to use brandnew aircraft to destinations in Africa where they have no direct competition while their routes to the Caribbean does have competition.

You are reading way too much into 'new aircraft' and favored or not-favored routes. Cabin configurations can make a difference, but the age of the airframe is hardly a factor. Just think about the 747s; the oldest long-haul aircraft in KLMs fleet, but with the highest number of C-seats, and flying to top business destinations like JFK, LAX or NRT.

For ACC and LOS, they are simply perfect routes for the 333: 7 hour flight, high cargo demand, exactly the envelope of the 333. It also makes room for the M11 or 772 to serve longer routes, those that the 333 is less suitable for.

Additionally, there is one big advantage:

AMS-ACC 15:15-21:00
ACC-AMS 23:00-06:50

AMS-LOS 12:45-19:35
LOS-AMS 23:30-06:15

These routes can be operated by one airframe. So the first 333 can simply fly the ACC-route daily, and 2 airframes allow for a daily AMS-LOS-AMS too. This gives good aircraft utilization, and the possibility for optimal crew scheduling. IAD can also be flown with 1 frame, and will be combined with 332 service (same pilots).

Now, the Caribbean triangle routes served by the M11, can't be flown with 1 frame. Like KL 761:

AMS-CUR 12:45-17:50
CUR-BON-AMS 19:15-11:10

The turnaround at AMS is too short to do the same triangle with 1 aircraft. This makes scheduling more complex, and in order to allow for efficient scheduling, a larger fleet is required.

Next to the practical point, short routes are better suited for crew training. That's why LOS, ACC, but also JFK, IAD, or one of the Middle East routes, often see new aircraft types.

Whether or not we'll see the 333 in AUA, BON or CUR remains to be seen. Range-wise, it's on the edge of the envelope for the 333, but it might be just fine for the new 233t versions.

But for the reasons stated above, I actually expect YUL to switch from M11 to 333 sooner than any of the other routes.
 
A388
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:11 pm

Quoting joost (Reply 5):
But for the reasons stated above, I actually expect YUL to switch from M11 to 333 sooner than any of the other routes.

Thank you Joost, for route proving it makes sense but the new version of the A333 can do longhaul flights so a 7 hour flight might be under utilization of the aircraft's capabilities slightly. I'm seeing KL using the 777 to CUR in the future but I still do hope we will see their A333 as well.

A388
 
caribb
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:17 pm

Quoting joost (Reply 5):
But for the reasons stated above, I actually expect YUL to switch from M11 to 333 sooner than any of the other routes

I was also expecting YUL to be one of the first A333 destinations too. I would have thought it would have been good replacement aircraft for such a mature market. There is however no competition on the run to force change either. I'm a little baffled why Montreal seems to be so under the radar at KLM..
 
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:17 pm

Quoting joost (Reply 5):
Next to the practical point, short routes are better suited for crew training.

How much of an issue is this, given that KL already has the A332?
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:20 pm

Quoting joost (Reply 5):
Whether or not we'll see the 333 in AUA, BON or CUR remains to be seen. Range-wise, it's on the edge of the envelope for the 333, but it might be just fine for the new 233t versions.

Actually its well with in the range of the A333, AMS-CUR is 4232nm max range from Airbus is 5850nm
Please let me know... If you know this is the end of the world, Let me know... If you know the truth...
 
Joost
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:30 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 6):
but the new version of the A333 can do longhaul flights so a 7 hour flight might be under utilization of the aircraft's capabilities slightly.

Of course, the 333 can also do 9:00 sectors; but using M11 or 772 on ACC or LOS makes even less sense, as they are capable of doing longer longer routes, and required to do so.

What other aircraft would you schedule on LOS, ACC or IAD?

The 333 is practically the perfect aircraft for all routes you don't want to waste the long-haul capabilities of the 772 on. The 772s range and low fuel consumption (compared to 744) is required for South American, South African and SE Asia routes. The 772 can be used on shorter routes for scheduling purposes (or C-class demand), but actually the 333 is preferred for anything below 9 hours.
 
SXDFC
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:47 pm

Is there any pictures out there? I heard that KLM A333s will have RR engines as well..
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Joost
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:53 pm

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 11):
I heard that KLM A333s will have RR engines as well..

No, they'll have GE engines.
 
md11dude
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:39 pm

Stange, Workers here are saying YYC is getting the 333 next summer unstead of the MD-11. Im a bit choked to be honest. Otherwise, I swore I still saw that YUL was still flying it this summer in the system??. I think YVR will never see the threeholer again either.
Ive been planning an interline MD-11 trip this summer, and now I don't know where the heck im going out of (north america) that will be a safe bet for my beloved threeholer. Nothing against the 330 (I love em too) but that MD sure is something special!
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nipoel123
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:59 pm

Quoting md11dude (Reply 13):
Ive been planning an interline MD-11 trip this summer, and now I don't know where the heck im going out of (north america) that will be a safe bet for my beloved threeholer.

I'd say YUL is your best bet. It is currently listed as M11 for the summer (at least in July and August). I'm coming to Canada this summer, but I can't persuade my parents to fly via YUL to YYZ, if only I could afford it myself... But I guess I have to put up with a 74M and a 772.
one mile of road leads to nowhere, one mile of runway leads to anywhere
 
Ychocky
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:07 pm

Quoting md11dude (Reply 13):
Stange, Workers here are saying YYC is getting the 333 next summer unstead of the MD-11. Im a bit choked to be honest. Otherwise, I swore I still saw that YUL was still flying it this summer in the system??. I think YVR will never see the threeholer again either.
Ive been planning an interline MD-11 trip this summer, and now I don't know where the heck im going out of (north america) that will be a safe bet for my beloved threeholer. Nothing against the 330 (I love em too) but that MD sure is something special!

I flew KL671 on Sunday aboard PH-KCA "Amy Johnson" I made a point to talk with the crew and they stated they have not received any indication of it's phase out.

I plan to fly aboard the last YUL MD-11 and if possible the last KL MD-11. Would be a real treat. We were again treated on sunday to a roaring departure off the Kaagbaan which will soon be only a memory.

Looking forward to the A330-300 in KLM colours as the GE CF6's make this bird stunning.
 
SASMD82
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:57 pm

Can we expect any follow up orders for the A333 (bearing in mind that we can expect the B789 in 2016 or - which can be quite likely - later in 2017 or 2018)?

Quoting joost (Reply 5):
For ACC and LOS, they are simply perfect routes for the 333: 7 hour flight, high cargo demand

Remember that - for instance - AY, LH and LX use their A333 for flights up to 10 hours (FRA-YVC, HEL-INC, ZRH-MIA etc.). The A333 is the king of the medium haul ranges.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 11):
I heard that KLM A333s will have RR engines as well.

I have heard that the CF6-80E1 engines are the most powerful engines for the A330 but why are the RR Trent 700 engines so popular for the A330?
 
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EK413
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:22 pm

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 16):
Quoting SXDFC (Reply 11):
I heard that KLM A333s will have RR engines as well.

I have heard that the CF6-80E1 engines are the most powerful engines for the A330 but why are the RR Trent 700 engines so popular for the A330?

I know it won't be the reason but the RR power plant certainly look far better on the A330 than the CF6 engines...

EK413
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kl692
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:28 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 4):

I for one take this comment of urs personal. Are you saying that African routes does not require better A/C. Acc for starters have been very good to KL. perhaps u should do some study on how big of a player acc is becoming in the aviation world in Africa. If anything I see it as KL rewarding the AMS - ACC route.
A310, A330,A346,B73H, B747,B772,B77W,CRJ
 
Joost
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:33 pm

Quoting md11dude (Reply 13):
Stange, Workers here are saying YYC is getting the 333 next summer unstead of the MD-11.

Currently the 332 is loaded for AMS-YYC, 6x weekly 25 Mar - 31 May, daily 31 May - 27 Oct. Considering the frequency increase, and the fact that the 333s are already dedicated to other routes, the 332 seems most likely for YYC.

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 16):
Remember that - for instance - AY, LH and LX use their A333 for flights up to 10 hours (FRA-YVC, HEL-INC, ZRH-MIA etc.). The A333 is the king of the medium haul ranges.

10 hours is towards the economical edge of the 333, especially for westbound sectors. For these 10 hour sectors, the required payload makes the difference between the 333 and 343/772.

Also, keep in mind that LX and LH have lower density configurations:
LH: 8F/48C/165M = 221
LX: 8F/45C/183M = 236
KL: 30C / 262M = 292

Now, 71 additional passengers + baggage, that's some 7 ton additional payload that KL's 333 would want to carry, compared to LX or LH. 7 ton, that's 500nm range at MTOW.
 
boeing773er
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:34 pm

Does anyone have any pictures of this?

I bet it looks stunning.
Work Hard, Fly Right.
 
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notaxonrotax
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:41 pm

Quoting kl692 (Reply 18):

Quoting A388 (Reply 4):

I for one take this comment of urs personal. Are you saying that African routes does not require better A/C. Acc for starters have been very good to KL. perhaps u should do some study on how big of a player acc is becoming in the aviation world in Africa. If anything I see it as KL rewarding the AMS - ACC route.


Easy, easy will do it. Why do you take it personal?
I thought the questions were fair; as a fanatic "Air Tycoon" player as I am!
Good questions, that now have been answered.


Quick question in general: has this airframe flown before?
Airbus flies them in the "green-ish" test colors, right??

Would be cool to see it in full glory; under the "typical" AMS-sun!!

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photoshooter
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:42 pm

Can't wait to see an A333 with KL's livery on it  
Although I don't get the point in having a fleet with 332, 333, 772, 77W, MD11, 744s?
Any rumors they'll replace some older aircraft with some 333s?
I don't want to pay KL's mechanical bill 


Niek  
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747ata32
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:52 pm

Quoting photoshooter (Reply 22):
Any rumors they'll replace some older aircraft with some 333s?

The 333s will replace the first MD11's.
This year 3 333's will be added. 4 MD11's will be phased out. By 2014 all MD11's will have left the fleet. More 333's and 77W's will be added.

744's are still holding strong. No firm info on their phase out, though one should not forget that about half of KLs 744 fleet isn't that old. BFY was delivered in 2001. The ERF freighters in 2003, 2004 and 2007.
Flown: 733, 734, 73G, 738, 739, 742, 743, 744, M11, 752, 763, F100, F70, SF340, A319, A320, A321, A332, 772, 77W, D10, D
 
SASMD82
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:00 pm

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 16):
Can we expect any follow up orders for the A333 (bearing in mind that we can expect the B789 in 2016 or - which can be quite likely - later in 2017 or 2018)?
Quoting 747ata32 (Reply 23):
More 333's and 77W's will be added.

Any source?

Quoting 747ata32 (Reply 23):
744's are still holding strong. No firm info on their phase out, though one should not forget that about half of KLs 744 fleet isn't that old.

On the website (http://www.klm.com/corporate/nl/images/58143_KLM%20Annual%20Report%20NL_web_tcm730-354029.pdf) KLM claims that their pax 747 is 21 years old on avarge (August 2011) and the combis were 17 years old. I think that is quite old considering that their B777s, A330s and even the MD-11s are (a lot) younger.

The 747s have a special place in the KL fleet but - except for the freighter planes - isn't it about time to confirm the A359 to replace the B744? Or to order more A333/B77W to use it as an interim option?
 
ghifty
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:43 pm

Quoting photoshooter (Reply 22):
Although I don't get the point in having a fleet with 332, 333, 772, 77W, MD11, 744s?

332: 253
M11: 285
333: 300
772: 300-400
77W: 365-451
744: 467
*arranged by capacity

As you can see, all the aircraft they operate don't share the same capacities.. save the 333/772. And, as it's already been established, the 333 is more established as a "medium-haul" aircraft. I assume the 772 is superior as a "long-haul" aircraft. Additionally, the M11's do there jobs well for KL. I believe there was a thread regarding the M11's use by KL.

Quoting photoshooter (Reply 22):
Can't wait to see an A333 with KL's livery on it  

KL's livery is timeless, and IMO one of the best ones out there. Clean, but not euro-white!
Fly Delta Jets
 
aerokiwi
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:21 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 17):
I know it won't be the reason but the RR power plant certainly look far better on the A330 than the CF6 engines...

I totally disagree. I think the GE's look sleek and sharp, while the RRs look bulky and clunky, like they've overdosed on the cowling.
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:57 am

Quoting caribb (Reply 7):
I was also expecting YUL to be one of the first A333 destinations too. I would have thought it would have been good replacement aircraft for such a mature market. There is however no competition on the run to force change either. I'm a little baffled why Montreal seems to be so under the radar at KLM..

There is in-house competition from AF, and real competition from BA and LX, as well as AC with LH connections at FRA, as I imagine that most people on these flights to AMS continue beyond AMS (although perhaps not the higher yielding ones who might fly o&d). No idea of the AMS-YUL o&d market, but I do not see it being big.
The MD11 cabin with upgraded IFE is very much in line with what is used by the competition (except for the cramped AF 777) on the YUL-Europe routes. I see no real need for a change, if the M11 is the right choice of J/Y capacity, as well as cargo. The A333 cannot start operating everywhere at once, but since it is replacing the M11, it is almost certain that it will be deployed to YUL, eventually.
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PM
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:21 am

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 26):
I totally disagree. I think the GE's look sleek and sharp, while the RRs look bulky and clunky, like they've overdosed on the cowling.

Are you perhaps mixing up the two engines?  
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:30 am

Quoting Hacku (Reply 3):

What? No pics!!

I think a 333 in KL blue would be so sexy..
What gets measured gets done.
 
Newark727
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:07 am

Quoting 747ata32 (Reply 23):
744's are still holding strong.

Are they still flying some of them as combis? That's one reason I can think of why a replacement might be harder to come by. Maybe not a very good reason though.
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:30 am

Quoting joost (Reply 5):
AMS-ACC 15:15-21:00
ACC-AMS 23:00-06:50
Quoting joost (Reply 5):

Now, the Caribbean triangle routes served by the M11, can't be flown with 1 frame. Like KL 761:

AMS-CUR 12:45-17:50
CUR-BON-AMS 19:15-11:10

But combine the two routes, and two planes can operate both routes on opposite days.

AMS-ACC 15:15-21:00
ACC-AMS 23:00-06:50
AMS-CUR 12:45-17:50
CUR-BON-AMS 19:15-11:10

and repeat over again
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:11 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 31):

But combine the two routes, and two planes can operate both routes on opposite days.

AMS-ACC 15:15-21:00
ACC-AMS 23:00-06:50
AMS-CUR 12:45-17:50
CUR-BON-AMS 19:15-11:10

and repeat over again

Which is exactly how many routes like these are actually planned.
What gets measured gets done.
 
aerokiwi
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:30 am

Quoting PM (Reply 28):
Are you perhaps mixing up the two engines?  

At the risk of going wildly off-topic... nope. I've always thought the RRs were ungainly. Heard one spotter describe them as "pint glasses". The cowling stretching the entire length of the engine is just too much and they look ungainly on the 332 especially. The GE's sleek, long nozzle gives me the impression of power... if you will  

And with the KL livery they look even better. Have always thought the aesthetics of RR engines have been pretty awful, either awkwardly small and stubby (747 classics, L1011) or over-sized and ungainly (A330).
 
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frigatebird
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:04 am

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 24):
The 747s have a special place in the KL fleet but - except for the freighter planes - isn't it about time to confirm the A359 to replace the B744? Or to order more A333/B77W to use it as an interim option?

With 25 787-9's on order and 10 787-9's to be leased from ILFC, I tend to think the 789 will replace the 747combis and the A359 will arrive only when it's time to replace the 772's.

The 10 787's from ILFC were originally planned to replace the MD11's but with the arrival of the A333's and early retirements of some MD11 as a result of some route cuts, it makes sense to introduce just one new type (787) for now, and wait with another new type (A359) until all 747's are phased out.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 30):
Are they still flying some of them as combis? That's one reason I can think of why a replacement might be harder to come by. Maybe not a very good reason though.

The majority of KL's 747's are combis (16 out of 22 IIRC, but please correct me if I have the exact numbers wrong). That's why the 787-9 would be a good replacement passenger-wise (the combis seat 280). The full pax 747's can be replaced with 77W's, either with the ones they already have (on order), or with a small additional order.
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76er
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:33 am

The easy answer when is comes to 747-combi replacement is: there IS no replacement (yet).
 
kl5147
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:49 am

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 34):
The majority of KL's 747's are combis (16 out of 22 IIRC

I count 16 out of 21
PH-BFA Boeing 747-406 City of Atlanta
PH-BFB Boeing 747-406 City of Bangkok
PH-BFC Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Calgary / asia-titles
PH-BFD Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Dubai/Doebai / asia-titles
PH-BFE Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Melbourne
PH-BFF Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Freetown
PH-BFG Boeing 747-406 City of Guayaquil
PH-BFH Boeing 747-406 (M) City of HongKong / asia-titles
PH-BFI Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Jakarta
PH-BFK Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Karachi
PH-BFL Boeing 747-406 City of Lima
PH-BFM Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Mexico / asia-titles
PH-BFN Boeing 747-406 City of Nairobi
PH-BFO Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Orlando
PH-BFP Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Paramaribo / asia-titles
PH-BFR Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Rio de Janeiro
PH-BFS Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Seoul
PH-BFT Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Tokyo
PH-BFU Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Beijing
PH-BFV Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Vancouver
PH-BFW Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Shanghai
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747ata32
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:55 am

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 24):
Any source?

Yes. But I can't share that  
Flown: 733, 734, 73G, 738, 739, 742, 743, 744, M11, 752, 763, F100, F70, SF340, A319, A320, A321, A332, 772, 77W, D10, D
 
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:17 am

Quoting kl5147 (Reply 36):
I count 16 out of 21
Quoting 747ata32 (Reply 23):
BFY was delivered in 2001

There she is.
 
A388
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:03 pm

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 21):
Quoting kl692 (Reply 18):

Quoting A388 (Reply 4):

I for one take this comment of urs personal. Are you saying that African routes does not require better A/C. Acc for starters have been very good to KL. perhaps u should do some study on how big of a player acc is becoming in the aviation world in Africa. If anything I see it as KL rewarding the AMS - ACC route.



Easy, easy will do it. Why do you take it personal?

I agree notaxonrotax, I didn't mean to offend kl692 or anyone else for that matter. I was just curious what thinking KL uses for their aircraft utilization. As you said, good questions that now have been answered.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 34):
With 25 787-9's on order and 10 787-9's to be leased from ILFC, I tend to think the 789 will replace the 747combis and the A359 will arrive only when it's time to replace the 772's.

And I'm guessing that the 744 pax version will be replaced by more 77W's?

A388
 
kl5147
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:07 pm

Quoting lexer (Reply 38):
There she is.


Thankz, I knew I was something missing   
"The world is just a click away!"
 
photoshooter
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:31 pm

Quoting 747ata32 (Reply 23):
The 333s will replace the first MD11's.

Which is sad news.. I really want to log a KL MD11 before they're gone!

Quoting ghifty (Reply 25):
As you can see, all the aircraft they operate don't share the same capacities..

Which is pretty expensive , no ?

Niek  
'A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.' - Winston Churchill
 
caribb
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:46 pm

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 27):
There is in-house competition from AF, and real competition from BA and LX, as well as AC with LH connections at FRA, as I imagine that most people on these flights to AMS continue beyond AMS (although perhaps not the higher yielding ones who might fly o&d). No idea of the AMS-YUL o&d market, but I do not see it being big.

Yes of course you are right and in that light every city in Europe served has competiton of some sort via another hub or via an alliance partner. I was of course talking about direct one on one competition on YUL-AMS for which there is none. They are the only carrier on the route. I was hoping they'd upgrade the aircraft sooner than later but it doesn't seem to be in the cards.

For O&D YUL/AMS.. I've flown to Amsterdam many times and from what I've seen the numbers of passengers deplaning at Amsterdam and going through customs from my flights have been small. Most appear to be connecting. This might explain why there is no competition on the route too... and nothing pushing them to put the A333's on YUL early on, especially if the MD11s are really well suited to the Montreal market.
 
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frigatebird
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:49 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 39):
Quoting frigatebird (Reply 34):With 25 787-9's on order and 10 787-9's to be leased from ILFC, I tend to think the 789 will replace the 747combis and the A359 will arrive only when it's time to replace the 772's.
And I'm guessing that the 744 pax version will be replaced by more 77W's?

Yes. KL currently operates 5, with 2 more on order (and I've heard another one will come through a leasing firm). These weren't meant to replace the 744's but for expansion. However, if KL needs to cut capacity it can always replace a 744 with one of the 77W's they already have, or are about to receive. In an interview one or two years ago Peter Hartman already indicated the 77W was the preferred option to replace full pax 744's. It has nearly the same number of pax and can carry even more cargo.
146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
 
Mdutch
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:49 pm

Quoting kl5147 (Reply 36):
I count 16 out of 21
PH-BFA Boeing 747-406 City of Atlanta
PH-BFB Boeing 747-406 City of Bangkok
PH-BFC Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Calgary / asia-titles
PH-BFD Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Dubai/Doebai / asia-titles
PH-BFE Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Melbourne
PH-BFF Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Freetown
PH-BFG Boeing 747-406 City of Guayaquil
PH-BFH Boeing 747-406 (M) City of HongKong / asia-titles
PH-BFI Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Jakarta
PH-BFK Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Karachi
PH-BFL Boeing 747-406 City of Lima
PH-BFM Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Mexico / asia-titles
PH-BFN Boeing 747-406 City of Nairobi
PH-BFO Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Orlando
PH-BFP Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Paramaribo / asia-titles
PH-BFR Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Rio de Janeiro
PH-BFS Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Seoul
PH-BFT Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Tokyo
PH-BFU Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Beijing
PH-BFV Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Vancouver
PH-BFW Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Shanghai

You missed PH-BFY Boeing 747-406 (M) City of Johannesburg
 
A388
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:11 pm

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 43):
Yes. KL currently operates 5, with 2 more on order (and I've heard another one will come through a leasing firm). These weren't meant to replace the 744's but for expansion. However, if KL needs to cut capacity it can always replace a 744 with one of the 77W's they already have, or are about to receive. In an interview one or two years ago Peter Hartman already indicated the 77W was the preferred option to replace full pax 744's. It has nearly the same number of pax and can carry even more cargo.

That sounds good and I also expected such a move but they will need to order more 77W's if they want to use the 77W on a daily basis to CUR and operate the routes currently flown by their 77W. On which routes does KL currently use their 77W? It seems to me that the routes they are being used on now are all premium routes or routes needing the capacity of the 77W so I don't know if those routes will be cut to free up 77W's.

A388
 
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notaxonrotax
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:16 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 45):
That sounds good and I also expected such a move but they will need to order more 77W's if they want to use the 77W on a daily basis to CUR and operate the routes currently flown by their 77W. On which routes does KL currently use their 77W? It seems to me that the routes they are being used on now are all premium routes or routes needing the capacity of the 77W so I don't know if those routes will be cut to free up 77W's.

1 route that is 77W, I believe 3 * weekly is UIO-GYE.
I have heard rumours that this will go B772, 5 * weekly soon.

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Ychocky
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:21 pm

Is there a Matt Cawby in TLS?  

Can someone confirm the regs for the 3 ships on order?

I found:

PH-AKA
PH-AKB
PH-AKD

Also I see the first is to be named "Times Square - New York", what about the others?
 
Virginblue4
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:36 pm

Still no photos?  

When will there be photos???
The amazing tale of flight.
 
A388
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RE: First KLM A330-300 Out In The Open In TLS

Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:50 pm

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 46):
1 route that is 77W, I believe 3 * weekly is UIO-GYE.
I have heard rumours that this will go B772, 5 * weekly soon.

That gives some room, yes.

A388

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