realsim
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EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:07 pm

Emirates will launch two new daily flights to Spain in July. One new route to BCN, and another additional daily flight to MAD. All flights will be operated with the 77W, which is surprising in both cases, because they usually start with smaller aircraft.

If the new flights work, maybe in the future MAD could see EK's 380...

EK185 DXB 0655 BCN 1200 77W Daily (From JUL03)
EK185 BCN 1640 DXB 0100 77W Daily

EK141 DXB 0750 MAD 1345 77W Daily (already existing)
EK142 MAD 1525 DXB 0040 77W Daily (already existing)

EK143 DXB 1425 MAD 2020 77W Daily (From JUL01)
EK144 MAD 2210 DXB 0715 77W Daily

Source in Spanish: http://www.europapress.es/economia/t...arcelona-julio-20120125134103.html

And in English: http://www.jordandirections.com/2012...mirates-ramps-up-services-to-spain

[Edited 2012-01-25 05:49:47]
 
Pe@rson
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:00 pm

Good to see!

Interesting that BCN starts with a 77W, that MAD is so quickly increased to 2x daily, and that both flights will be by the 77W.

EK185 DXB 0655 BCN 1200 77W Daily (From JUL03)
EK185 BCN 1640 DXB 0100 77W Daily

I'm guessing these timings (0655 departure, 0100 arrival) are more the consequence of congestion at EK's very busy periods?

[Edited 2012-01-25 06:50:07]
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deltamartin
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:06 pm

Good for these Spanish cities!

Now that BCN is covered, ARN can't be far down the list over new EK European destinations.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:47 pm

This moves is clearly in answer to QR and its recently announced Spain expansion. EK could just not stay behind with BCN.

Quoting deltamartin (Reply 2):
ARN can't be far down the list over new EK European destinations

ARN and OSL should definitely be in the pipeline, as is BRU.
 
airbazar
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:01 pm

What's amazing is that IB does not fly to a single Asian city (except TLV), from their enourmous hub, supposedly for lack of demand, and yet EK can make 3 daily flights to Spain work. It makes you wonder.
 
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:57 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 4):
What's amazing is that IB does not fly to a single Asian city (except TLV), from their enourmous hub, supposedly for lack of demand, and yet EK can make 3 daily flights to Spain work. It makes you wonder.

Not really given that EK is connecting Madrid/Barcelona to a huge array of other destinations in South, South East and East Asia along with Australia/New Zealand, which on aggregate probably justifies the flights versus IB's would be connection from Spain to one or two cities if they chose to open up Asian operations...their aircraft are probably better utilized on their Central/South America network where they enjoy monopolies on certain routes.

That said, an IB service to an Asian oneworld hub (suppose that would be Tokyo Narita or Hong Kong) would be interesting...
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UALWN
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:07 pm

Finally EK to BCN! Great news! Unfortunately, they start one day too late for me: I need to be in MEL on Jul 3, and I'd have loved to try EK, although the 10-abreast 77W worries me. Anyway, it's going to get interesting with QR, which apparently is doing very well, and, to a lesser extend, with SQ.
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mikey72
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:08 pm

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 5):
Not really given that EK is connecting Madrid/Barcelona to a huge array of other destinations in South, South East and East Asia along with Australia/New Zealand, which on aggregate probably justifies the flights versus IB's would be connection from Spain to one or two cities if they chose to open up Asian operations.

Would you mind explaining that concept to those that don't understand why there is no British carrier operating long-haul from MAN.

Be ever so much appreciated !
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SQ773
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:17 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 4):
What's amazing is that IB does not fly to a single Asian city (except TLV), from their enourmous hub, supposedly for lack of demand, and yet EK can make 3 daily flights to Spain work. It makes you wonder.

Absolutely agree.
 
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SQ773
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:26 pm

I have to say that I am like...WOW !

I mean, in a matter of one year and a half BCN has seen from zero frequencies to the Middle East to have 2 daily QR frequencies to DOH with an 332 and a daily 77W to DXB with EK.

Am I missing something ? I know 90 % of the pax are transit passengers, but still.... I do not get it. On top of that, Spain is not at the moment at his best in terms of economy..

QR and JK, the never ending story. Either EK knows that the agreement is imminent and wants to stop QR expansion here or definitely I am missing something...

In any case, glad to see BCN growing

[Edited 2012-01-25 08:29:27]

[Edited 2012-01-25 08:30:28]
 
HB-IWC
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:20 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 1):
I'm guessing these timings (0655 departure, 0100 arrival) are more the consequence of congestion at EK's very busy periods?

You are very likely right. There are increasing congestion issues both in the 7 - 9 am morning departure wave and in the midnight arrivals bank. Because of this rather early departure time, the DXB BCN flight will not be available to incoming passengers from such destionations as SYD, LOS, ACC, ABJ and the Indian Subcontinent. I presume that the SYD issue will be fixed though. All other Asian and African connections are covered.
 
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eurowings
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:25 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 7):
Would you mind explaining that concept to those that don't understand why there is no British carrier operating long-haul from MAN.

*cough* VS *cough*

It's also good to see EK taking advantage of the potential in the Spanish market.

[Edited 2012-01-25 10:27:06]
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ronerone
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:46 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 10):
I presume that the SYD issue will be fixed though.

Will there be changes to EK413 and/or EK419 timings?
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behramjee
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:56 pm

The top volume metric markets of interest to EK in BCN would be as follows (based on annual demand stats):

DXB - 27,000 pax
NRT - 116,000 pax
KIX - 32,000 pax
HKG - 31,000 pax
MNL - 17,000 pax
BKK - 20,000 pax
SIN - 41,000 pax
KWI - 10,000 pax
PVG - 87,000 pax
PEK - 44,000 pax
JNB - 20,000 pax
BOM - 16,000 pax
DEL - 53,000 pax
LHE - 18,000 pax
ISB - 28,000 pax
SYD - 13,000 pax
MEL - 11,000 pax
 
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lightsaber
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:04 pm

I find the 'defensive launch' to BCN interesting. There were prior threads here on a.net, when EK launched MAD service, where the MAD crowd was trying to predict there would be no BCN service... Now we have:

Quoting SQ773 (Reply 9):
I mean, in a matter of one year and a half BCN has seen from zero frequencies to the Middle East to have 2 daily QR frequencies to DOH with an 332 and a daily 77W to DXB with EK.

  

I suspect QR will grow their DOH service, but mostly after their new airport is completed.

Quoting realsim (Thread starter):
If the new flights work, maybe in the future MAD could see EK's 380...

I suspect within 18 months for EK 141/142.

Quoting ronerone (Reply 12):
Will there be changes to EK413 and/or EK419 timings?

I suspect EK will have to turn some of their waves into 'rolling waves' to support growth with the current congestion.

With the flood of aircraft coming online in the next two years, I expect EK to do very well with expansion.

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IrishAyes
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:12 pm

Jeez, EK is just slapping capacity all over Europe, all the time. Didn't MAD just recently start? Is it performing that well? or is this just another plug to send a new aircraft to?
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BommerJan
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:30 pm

No one should have to fly 10-abreast in a 77X!!!!....

But living in BCN I can see the market for EK: Many Chinese, Pakistani, Indian immigrants, plus a Spanish elite, whose travels are not affected by the economy.

On another note: I flew SQ both BCN-GRU (Jan2012) and BCN-SIN (Aug2012) and all flights were full.

Demand is definitely there.... and IB has no chance of getting any of it.
 
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SQ773
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:31 pm

Quoting BommerJan (Reply 16):
But living in BCN I can see the market for EK: Many Chinese, Pakistani, Indian immigrants, plus a Spanish elite, whose travels are not affected by the economy.
Quoting BommerJan (Reply 16):
I flew SQ both BCN-GRU (Jan2012) and BCN-SIN (Aug2012) and all flights were full.

There is market but I really doubt there is such a big market in here. Besides, QR , EK and SQ will not be the only carriers offering connex to China, Pakistan ,etc. There will always be the big European hubs...

If anybody wants to make me believe that there is a market for a daily 77W from the very first day of operations, sorry but it will take time to convince me ! I could understand a 332 4 or 5 times a week, then a 772, and so on. But a daily 77W seems to me an strategy to get someone out of biz.

SQ is full to GRU mainly with SIN pax. And yes, IB should be ashamed to see how BCN can grow without them at all.
 
qf002
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:29 pm

Quoting SQ773 (Reply 17):
SQ is full to GRU mainly with SIN pax.

Really? The general consensus I've seen from those who have more information on this forum is that there is a very low percentage of passengers travelling onward to GRU after the BCN stop...

In any case, the 77W is a very effective tool of attack for EK -- a lot of capacity, which I imagine they will be selling at (or just below) cost for the first few months to drum up traffic. Then they can return to a level matching the fares of QR, SQ etc after the sale period is over and will end up with equal success.

I wonder how their cargo ops are performing -- could be a major consideration in the choice to send the 77W...
 
ORDJOE
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:15 am

Come on EK, announce ORD
 
zhiao
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:34 am

Spain has many S Asian immigrants? Anybody have any figures to back that up? I didn't see any when I was there.
 
jgp777
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:53 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 18):

I flew SQ last Monday from BCN to GRU. I was chatting with the crew and they said that most of the time very few pax go all the way to GRU from SIN. On my flight, we had a full flight in economy. And the crew said that only 10% of these pax originated from SIN.
I was a bit surprised after I realized that the flight was full because I purchased a round trip ticket 4 days before flying from MAD-GRU via BCN on JK and SQ for just 970 Euros! The other options were IB and TAM with over 1200 Euros. I think this was a great deal considering the flight was full.
I think EK will attract a lot of customers to Asia with their new flight into BCN, perhaps even more than QR in a short period of time. The reason being that EK has many daily connections from DXB to South Asia and Far East, a thing which QR doesnt have. For example, one cannot fly from BCN to BOM on all days with QR because the flight from BCN is timed differently every alternate day and QR has only one daily flight from DOH to BOM. But with EK having 5 or more daily frequencies to BOM, you can connect daily.
 
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:14 am

To all of you wondering how can EK operate so many capacity into cities even the national carriers cannot run profitably - due to the sheer size of EK's operation and the enormous connectivity it brings; EK's network is now in a level where they can simply open up a city and see the flights being filled. The well connected banks provide a world of opportunities to the pax, and even if each of EK's destinations only got 4 pax per day out of BCN, it will fill the 77W.
Yet Emirates is still being modest and seem to be only opening up cities with significant demand as well as good yield. Otherwise, EK clearly can serve a much wider range of cities, just with the demand out of its own network.

Lightsaber, why go for a rolling hub when there's DWC?
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HB-IWC
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:50 am

Quoting ronerone (Reply 12):
Will there be changes to EK413 and/or EK419 timings?
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
I suspect EK will have to turn some of their waves into 'rolling waves' to support growth with the current congestion.

Right now, the arrival times of EK0413 and EK0419 from SYD bring them just under the minimum connecting time for the BCN flight. I expect this issue to be taken care of by slightly retiming the arrival time of at least one of the SYD flights. All other South East Asian connections are guaranteed though.

This schedule nevertheless goes to show how urgent the congestion issue in the morning departure bank has become. Meanwhile, we can expect more European cities (BRU, OSL, ARN are at the top of my list) announced over the next couple of seasons, all with schedules in the morning departure bank.

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 19):
Come on EK, announce ORD

My money is on IAD and even MIA before ORD.
 
Flying Belgian
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:44 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 10):
You are very likely right. There are increasing congestion issues both in the 7 - 9 am morning departure wave and in the midnight arrivals bank. Because of this rather early departure time, the DXB BCN flight will not be available to incoming passengers from such destionations as SYD, LOS, ACC, ABJ and the Indian Subcontinent. I presume that the SYD issue will be fixed though. All other Asian and African connections are covered.

Hello HB-IWC, always very very interesting to read you.   

I have a question:
is EK really "stealing" a part of Europe-West Africa traffic ? I mean do they really attract Nigerians flying from UK to LOS or ACC or even Ivorians flying out of CDG to ABJ ? I mean it's quite a detour for a fare differential that is not that big, isn't it ? I was wondering since I know they also have an interest in opening Kinshasa in DRC when they find a suitable tag-on (Cameroon, Gabon ?).


rgds,
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Pe@rson
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:56 pm

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 24):
I mean it's quite a detour for a fare differential that is not that big, isn't it ?

I remember randomly and recently searching for CDG-ABJ fares. The second-cheapest, but only a little, was EK with CDG-DXB-ACC-ABJ.  
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airbazar
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:18 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 13):
The top volume metric markets of interest to EK in BCN would be as follows (based on annual demand stats):

That is indeed a big number however, DXB is a crapy connecting point for most of those destinations, especially for premium passengers. Of the top 5 destinations, 3 are nearly 1,000nm longer via DXB than via a European hub. That leaves SIN and DEL as slightly more convenient via DXB and SIN is already served non-stop.

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 22):
To all of you wondering how can EK operate so many capacity into cities even the national carriers cannot run profitably - due to the sheer size of EK's operation and the enormous connectivity it brings; EK's network is now in a level where they can simply open up a city and see the flights being filled.

True but at 1000nm so far out of the way they have to offer cheaper fares for people to chose them. That's really how they fill their planes.
 
hal9213
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:08 pm

Quoting SQ773 (Reply 17):
If anybody wants to make me believe that there is a market for a daily 77W from the very first day of operations, sorry but it will take time to convince me ! I could understand a 332 4 or 5 times a week, then a 772, and so on. But a daily 77W seems to me an strategy to get someone out of biz.

My guess is, most of the 332/772 at EK dont have the demand to warrant an upgrade (most of them used for the high frequency regional routes). And the only new aircraft currently streaming into EKs fleet are 77W and A380.
So I guess its, "are we gonna waste capacity in MAD/BCN, or are we gonna waste capacity at XYZ, AND have the hassle of a flight plan change..."
 
migair54
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:41 pm

I think is a matter of availability of planes... that´s why they go straight to B77W.... BCN can also get a nice cargo uplipft, BCN is a very big industrial area.... I think Emirates skycargo used to serve BCN....

Quoting hal9213 (Reply 27):
My guess is, most of the 332/772 at EK dont have the demand to warrant an upgrade (most of them used for the high frequency regional routes). And the only new aircraft currently streaming into EKs fleet are 77W and A380.

Right

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 24):
I have a question:
is EK really "stealing" a part of Europe-West Africa traffic ? I mean do they really attract Nigerians flying from UK to LOS or ACC or even Ivorians flying out of CDG to ABJ ? I mean it's quite a detour for a fare differential that is not that big, isn't it ? I was wondering since I know they also have an interest in opening Kinshasa in DRC when they find a suitable tag-on (Cameroon, Gabon ?).

To save money people don´t mind a detour specially economy class pax, I don´t know how are the other airlines but I know with EK you can carry 2x23kgs bags and for many africans that´s important as well... DAR is a good example, not in West Africa but QR flying 2 daily A320 only allows 1x23, but EK is A345 and 2x23kgs.



What

Quoting SQ773 (Reply 17):
There is market but I really doubt there is such a big market in here. Besides, QR , EK and SQ will not be the only carriers offering connex to China, Pakistan ,etc. There will always be the big European hubs...

Is PIA still flying to BCN?? I remember they used to do, I don´t know now....


MAD is just amazing... 2xday is such a short time.... few month back it was only 4xweek...

EK and QR seem they are doing great.... and QR just move to T-4 with EK, IB and oneworld partners....
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:47 pm

Quoting SQ773 (Reply 17):
SQ is full to GRU mainly with SIN pax. And yes, IB should be ashamed to see how BCN can grow without them at all.

IB has always kept their focus on MAD, which has actually been a smarter strategy for them given the weaker-yielding traffic heads to BCN.

While the dual-hub strategy works in countries with stronger European economies (i.e. Germany) it doesn't in others, like Italy (as we've seen with FCO vs. MXP) or in Spain.

Quoting zhiao (Reply 20):

Spain has many S Asian immigrants? Anybody have any figures to back that up? I didn't see any when I was there.

Tons. Although its mostly VFR/low yielding traffic.
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HB-IWC
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:56 am

Quoting migair54 (Reply 28):
I think is a matter of availability of planes... that´s why they go straight to B77W

EK tends to start routes based on what they believe to be the initial passeger and cargo potential. The airline could easily have started BCN with an A332 but obviously saw more potential from the start hence directly the B77W. The same thing happened with AMS and GVA, while in recent times CPH, DUB, PRG and MAD were all started with smaller equipment and after that upgauged.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 28):
MAD is just amazing... 2xday is such a short time.... few month back it was only 4xweek...

DXB MAD has never been four weekly. EK started the route with a daily flight with A343 and then upgauged to B77W. With few exceptions, EK tends to start new routes with a daily frequency.
 
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:52 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 30):
EK started the route with a daily flight with A343 and then upgauged to B77W.

Nope.

Iberia started the route with A332, and upgraded to A343 a couple months later or so. About the frequencies, you are correct. Flights have always been daily.
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RAGAZZO777
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:59 am

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 31):
Iberia started the route with A332..

You mean Emirates, right ?
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migair54
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:53 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 30):
DXB MAD has never been four weekly. EK started the route with a daily flight with A343 and then upgauged to B77W. With few exceptions, EK tends to start new routes with a daily frequency.

Then i made the mistake with Qatar Airways...

Last time I saw Emirates in T-4 they were parked on T-4S but on remote, are they still using remote stands or now they park in the jetway?
 
Pe@rson
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:54 am

Interesting and relevant article on from the excellent people at CAPA: http://www.centreforaviation.com/blo...ng-haul-weakness-to-the-east-66900
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r2rho
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:48 pm

Quoting SQ773 (Reply 9):
QR and JK, the never ending story. Either EK knows that the agreement is imminent and wants to stop QR expansion here or definitely I am missing something...

Looks like QR is out of the deal - they have stepped away from the negotiations to buy 49% of JK. So no QR expansion in BCN to worry about (well at least not for now, and not in the form of JK).


in Spanish:
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2012/01/27/barcelona/1327651383.html
 
connies4ever
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:05 pm

Quoting SQ773 (Reply 9):
Am I missing something ? I know 90 % of the pax are transit passengers, but still.... I do not get it. On top of that, Spain is not at the moment at his best in terms of economy..

Yes, Spain is not at the moment at the best in terms of economy. Yesterday the government announced that the official unemployment rate is now 23.8%, which may mean the actual rate is closer to 30%.

EK are going double-daily to MAD and daily to BCN ? And they're not subsidized, right ?   
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lightsaber
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:06 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 13):
DXB - 27,000 pax
Quoting behramjee (Reply 13):
NRT - 116,000 pax

Thanks for numbers. That implies MAD-NRT should be a direct flight (topped off with connections).
DXB has more pax per day than I realized, but that is still a small number. This route is definately surviving off connections.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 36):
EK are going double-daily to MAD and daily to BCN ? And they're not subsidized, right ?

Look at the connections. I've never understood the low level of Eastbound traffic from MAD.


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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:51 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 36):
Yesterday the government announced that the official unemployment rate is now 23.8%, which may mean the actual rate is closer to 30%.

Actually, if the official rate is 23.8%, the actual rate is probably more like 15%, because of the rampant undeclared job market...
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:10 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 38):
Actually, if the official rate is 23.8%, the actual rate is probably more like 15%, because of the rampant undeclared job market...

My exact thought         
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:10 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 37):
That implies MAD-NRT should be a direct flight (topped off with connections).

Might that be a great 787 route for JL if they have JV with IB?
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:20 pm

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 31):
Iberia started the route with A332, and upgraded to A343 a couple months later or so.

The upgauge to a A343 was much quicker than that. EK originally announced that MAD would commence with an A322 but within a week had already upgauged to an A343.

I know because I flew to MAD in that first week and even posted a trip report at the time and subsequently raised a question in the tech forum, although under a slightly different user name. At the time it was indicated that demand had exceeded expectations.

One of the attractions of BCN is that it is not simply a destination in itself: it is the starting and/ or ending point of many cruises. This means that passengers can either book a flight to BCN and return from VCE or ATH, or vice versa, for example. BCN is also a center that hosts many conventions and similar gatherings, so I expect EK may benefit from some of that market as well.

[Edited 2012-01-27 10:35:49]
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:22 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 38):
Actually, if the official rate is 23.8%, the actual rate is probably more like 15%, because of the rampant undeclared job market...
Quoting ROGERBCN (Reply 39):
My exact thought

In the American situation, you might want to check up on: www.shadowstats.com to see what the official and unofficial numbers are. I have used these as a guide for Spain - for which I have a huge amount of affection. Used to work there, a long time ago.
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:57 pm

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 32):
You mean Emirates, right ?

A BIG Ooooooops!!!.

Sorry!. Hahaha that's what happens when posting at work without time to review what I'm saying. Of course I meant Emirates. My bad...

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 41):
The upgauge to a A343 was much quicker than that. EK originally announced that MAD would commence with an A322 but within a week had already upgauged to an A343.

Indeed, demand exceeded expectations very quickly. However, I'm pretty sure I saw the daily A332 coming to Madrid during more than just a week.

Anyway...excellent news to see Emirates growing in Madrid. On the other hand, this makes me wonder if Qatar Airways will be able to keep up or if they will end up going back to the A330-200/300 on their MAD flights due to EK's agressive strategy. 3 daily B777-300ERs between Madrid and Dubai/Doha may be a bit too much. Hope I'm wrong, though.
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:54 am

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 41):
The upgauge to a A343 was much quicker than that.

Indeed. Although the route was announced with A332 from 01AUG 2010 and then subsequently upgauged the A343 from 31OCT 2010, it did not see more than a couple of days of A332 operations. There is a picture in the database from very early August and the flight had already been upgraded to A343. Even now, with the B77W deployed, the flight is still doing very well. The tripling of capacity to Spain nevertheless comes as somewhat of a surprise, given the gaping holes in say the Scandinavian network and with also CPH doing very well. That said, I believe a second Scandinavian destination will be announced in 2012.
 
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:07 am

Quoting KFlyer (Reply 22):
Lightsaber, why go for a rolling hub when there's DWC?

I apologize for missing this earlier.
I do not believe EK/Dubai has the funds to build DWC for 7 to 10 years. Thus, EK will have to expand out of DXB for a while longer. Hence why I propose a "rolling hub.' Yes, we'll see Concourse 3 and further expansion of T2/Westfield.

I do believe DWC will be built. I do not believe it can be built in less than 5 years (to even say 3 runways and 150% of DXB's terminal capacity circa 2017). With Dubai's current financial situation, it will require a few more years of EK and airport profits before financing can be raised. Thus my 7 to 10 year time frame.

Note: In 2020, if DWC is open, I also do not expect it to have 5 runways on day #1. I expect 3 runways (maybe 4) and about half of the proposed DWC terminal/concourse space to be open. I expect the rest to come in phases. This is a consequence of the global financial markets *and* some of the Dubai companies defaulting on their bonds.


Quoting blink182 (Reply 40):
Might that be a great 787 route for JL if they have JV with IB?

NRT/HND-MAD would be an excellent route for whichever OW partner wishes to JV. It could be IB or it could be JL. IMHO, MAD to Asia is untapped potential that will grow quickly.

If JL (or IB) doesn't fill the route, than KE will use their 789s on MAD-ICN with connections to NRT by 2019. One way or the other I see more Asia connections.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 42):
In the American situation, you might want to check up on: www.shadowstats.com to see what the official and unofficial numbers are. I have used these as a guide for Spain

The US still publishes the raw data that can be plugged into the old form equations. Hence why the shadowstats compares U3 (today's measure of unemployment for the USA) with U6 (which is more how it was done in the 1930s). With Spain having a large 'shadow economy,' the real unemployment numbers could be more or less... I just wouldn't use shadowstats for anything but the USA. (Note: I'm a fan of their data. It just has its limits.)

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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:15 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 45):
I do not believe EK/Dubai has the funds to build DWC for 7 to 10 years.

The project has certainly faced delays but the airport is already operational. IIRC the first flight was operated by EK Skycargo in June 2010. At present only a limited number of cargo operators are using the airport. It has also been announced that DWC will be the location of the Dubai Air Show from 2013.
(Source: http://www.dwc.ae/project-details/al-maktoum-international-airport/ )

But EK's Tim Clark has previously stated that EK would not be moving there before 2017 and possibly not before 2020. In the meantime we will see commencement on another concourse (Concourse Four) and to accommodate the increased capacity a major upgrade and expansion of the baggage handling facility at DXB.
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:06 am

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 46):
But EK's Tim Clark has previously stated that EK would not be moving there before 2017 and possibly not before 2020.

  

What I mean by 'build' DWC is for EK to move over. DWC is built with one runway, some maintenance facilities, and a tiny (by EK standards) terminal.

So I think we're in agreement. I am continuing a discussion that if EK stays at DXB for any number of years, EK will have to go to a rolling hub at DXB to squeeze out connections such as BCN-SYD.

Right now, DWC's greatest value is for emergency diversions from DXB (if ever required). But a one runway airport is no mechanism for growth for EK. Split hubs... don't work. Right now, there just isn't the money to make DWC a growth path for EK. (Otherwise there would be no concourse 4 at DXB and instead there would be more work at DWC.) In a few years, there will be the funds to build DWC. But not for a few years.

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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:52 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 47):
EK will have to go to a rolling hub at DXB to squeeze out connections such as BCN-SYD.

I can not see that happening. Despite its size, Emirates does by far not operate enough frequencies on its network to even start thinking about organizing a rolling hub with any kind of commercial relevance. On its core DXB - Europe sectors, the airline has only recently started slowly building a third daily departure wave. For a rolling hub to be viable, the airline would need at least 5 daily departures to its key destinations. Such an approach would require frequency over size and looking at EK's fleet plans, the airline is going exactly the opposite direction.

The banked hub is here to stay and the airline will look at a host of creative ways to get around congestion issue. Larger equipment will be used during peak times and the smaller equipment will be moved to currently underused time windows to establish now connectivity patterns.
 
migair54
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RE: EK Announces Daily DXB-BCN And 2nd Daily DXB-MAD

Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:10 pm

What I didn´t expect it was MAD getting the B77W with the new suites.... is the second frequency also this plane configuration?? what about BCN??

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