richiemo
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Entire Post-merger UAL 757 W/ Winglets?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:48 am

Before anyone yells, I did do a search, just couldn't nail this topic. Wikipedia seems to suggest that all pre-merger UAL 757s will be fitted with winglets post-merger. Does anyone know. I thought I had read in several places that those aircraft would be used in means that really wouldn't make the winglets worthwhile. Does anyone know
 
gigneil
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RE: Entire Post-merger UAL 757 W/ Winglets?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:42 am

They will not all be.

NS
 
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atcsundevil
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RE: Entire Post-merger UAL 757 W/ Winglets?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:35 pm

All 763ERs will be and some PMUA 752s will get some (last I heard). PMUAs 752s are quite a bit older than PMCO (therefore, less ROI) and they can't make TATL runs like PMCO birds can, which is really where the winglets make a difference on range and fuel consumption. The 763ERs aren't exactly young, but they'll be flying around long enough and obviously flying long distances (TATL, Hawaii, etc.) to give a good enough ROI to make equipping them worth it. PMUA only equipped the p.s. 752s because they run strictly transcons; I imagine any further PMUA aircraft to be wingleted will be chosen because they have enough time left in service and will be tasked with primarily running transcon and/or Hawaii.
 
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STT757
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RE: Entire Post-merger UAL 757 W/ Winglets?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:40 pm

The PMUA PS 757s and ETOPs 757s will get winglets, I do not believe any other PMUA 757s will get them. For starters FedEx, whom might want to acquire some, does not want any 757s with winglets. Second I don't think the non PS/non ETOPs PMUA 757s will be around much longer making negating any further investment.

BTW..

Before anyone asks, the PMUA ETOPs 757s will not go Trans-Atlantic. They are for Hawaii routes.
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United1
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RE: Entire Post-merger UAL 757 W/ Winglets?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:42 pm

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 2):
All 763ERs will be and some PMUA 752s will get some (last I heard).

The 14 domestic 763ERs will receive winglets (they are circa 1998-2001.) The 12 752 P.S. and 16 752 ETOPS if they don't already have winglets will be getting them...those are the only aircraft I have heard that will be retrofitted.

It's possible that the 21 3-class 763ERs will get them as well but I haven't heard.
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United1
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RE: Entire Post-merger UAL 757 W/ Winglets?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:49 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):
Second I don't think the non PS/non ETOPs PMUA 757s will be around much longer making negating any further investment.

They will probably be around another few years until they are replaced by 739ERs. The other reason for not retrofitting them is that they become harder to sell on the cargo market.
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CO787EWR
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RE: Entire Post-merger UAL 757 W/ Winglets?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:55 pm

Why doesn't FedEx/cargo market like the winglets?
 
United1
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RE: Entire Post-merger UAL 757 W/ Winglets?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:11 pm

Quoting CO787EWR (Reply 6):

Why doesn't FedEx/cargo market like the winglets?

Something to do with the amount of gate space and added weight...its been discussed a few times on here.
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PC12Fan
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RE: Entire Post-merger UAL 757 W/ Winglets?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:13 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 7):

I think aircraft age also has something to do with it. Fuel savings wouldn't come close to the cost of adding the winglets.
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United1
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RE: Entire Post-merger UAL 757 W/ Winglets?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:24 pm

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 8):
I think aircraft age also has something to do with it.

Not an age issue....Fed Ex has 752 aircraft that are older than anything UA has in the fleet.

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 8):
Fuel savings wouldn't come close to the cost of adding the winglets.

Fuel savings have nothing to do with why the cargo carriers don't want winglets.
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PC12Fan
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RE: Entire Post-merger UAL 757 W/ Winglets?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:29 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 9):
Not an age issue....Fed Ex has 752 aircraft that are older than anything UA has in the fleet.

My point exactly.

Quoting United1 (Reply 9):
Fuel savings have nothing to do with why the cargo carriers don't want winglets.

Winglets also give the possibility of allowing more payload, but for a package carrier, I don't see the benefit.
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B757Forever
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RE: Entire Post-merger UAL 757 W/ Winglets?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:43 pm

The winglet STC for the 757 is only approved for pax aircraft use.
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Flighty
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RE: Entire Post-merger UAL 757 W/ Winglets?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:05 pm

Wingets would decrease cargo capacity with light fuel loads (MZFW?) and also, FX probably flies its 757 much less than the 12 hour days seen in pax airlines. Fuel burn matters most in long range, high utilization assignments (such as pax longhaul or certain Pacific FX routes). For twice daily short hops inside the USA, fuel burn becomes less and less critical.
 
tommy767
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RE: Entire Post-merger UAL 757 W/ Winglets?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:10 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):

The PMUA PS 757s and ETOPs 757s will get winglets, I do not believe any other PMUA 757s will get them. For starters FedEx, whom might want to acquire some, does not want any 757s with winglets. Second I don't think the non PS/non ETOPs PMUA 757s will be around much longer making negating any further investment.
Quoting United1 (Reply 5):
They will probably be around another few years until they are replaced by 739ERs. The other reason for not retrofitting them is that they become harder to sell on the cargo market.

As a right now, only 5 are leaving. Not that many considering there are 93 of them in the fleet still.

[Edited 2012-01-26 14:12:34]
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STT757
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RE: Entire Post-merger UAL 757 W/ Winglets?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:15 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 13):
As a right now, only 5 are leaving. Not that many considering there are 93 of them in the fleet still.

It's obviously a progression, four left last year, five leave this year then next year will and the years after that they will increase the rate.

[Edited 2012-01-26 14:18:40]
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tommy767
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RE: Entire Post-merger UAL 757 W/ Winglets?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:17 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
It's obviously a progression, four left last year, five leave this year then next year will and the years after that they will increase the rate.

Perhaps not. The 739s are replacing the 735s next year, not just the 757s.
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gigneil
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RE: Entire Post-merger UAL 757 W/ Winglets?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:19 pm

I wouldn't say they're replacing them at all. There happen to be 739s coming in and 735s leaving. Unrelated to each other.

NS
 
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STT757
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RE: Entire Post-merger UAL 757 W/ Winglets?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:22 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 15):

Perhaps not. The 739s are replacing the 735s next year, not just the 757s.

UA has 57 737s on firm order plus many more options. There are 27 737-500s still in CO/UA's fleet.
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tommy767
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RE: Entire Post-merger UAL 757 W/ Winglets?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:29 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 17):
UA has 57 737s on firm order plus many more options. There are 27 737-500s still in CO/UA's fleet.

Obs those are going to be gone. They are by far the most inefficent narrowbodies in the combined fleet.
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seabosdca
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RE: Entire Post-merger UAL 757 W/ Winglets?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:03 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 16):
I wouldn't say they're replacing them at all. There happen to be 739s coming in and 735s leaving. Unrelated to each other.

With airlines as big as UA and DL, there's not always specific one-to-one replacement of domestic aircraft, just replacement of capacity. Pretty much any domestic capacity coming in is a "replacement" for whatever capacity is leaving. What's leaving is a few 757s and a bunch of 735s. What's coming in is a bunch of 738s and 739s. It's just like DL, which has DC-9s leaving and much larger used MD-90s coming in as "replacements."
 
phishphan70
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RE: Entire Post-merger UAL 757 W/ Winglets?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:47 pm

Quoting CO787EWR (Reply 6):
Why doesn't FedEx/cargo market like the winglets?
Quoting United1 (Reply 7):
Something to do with the amount of gate space and added weight...its been discussed a few times on here.



The most important factor is they use them on shorter trips. Winglets weigh quite a bit, and i forget the exact number, but i believe you need to fly the aircraft on 3+ hour segments to make up the fuel savings in cruise vs. the cost to carry the weight of the winglet. They improve short field performance, but that isn't a concern of FX. Just look at the 744D. The design doesn't have winglets because they would cost more to carry on the short hauls then they would save.
ALSO, because they weigh so much, that takes away additional weight you could fill with cargo. I know FX usually runs out of space before weight, but i'm sure there are a few cases where FX wishes they could throw another ton or two onto a flight.
 
wrenchon727
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RE: Entire Post-merger UAL 757 W/ Winglets?

Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:30 am

Any one know the tails leaving the fleet. Is s/n 26705 going threw its lease return in SFO or has it been returned to the lease company already.