Jackbr
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AA 727-100s On West Coast

Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:41 am

Were American's 727-100s used much on the West Coast? I've found some photos of them at LAX, SFO, SAN as well as LAS (not on the coast but in the west none the less) - were they scheduled regularly to these cities, or used as subs for 722s?
 
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Tomassjc
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:35 am

AA's 727-100 were regular visitors to LAX, SFO, SAN, OAK and later PSP, from the time they came online in the mid 60s.

After deregulation, and the "hubbing and spoking" of AA through DFW and ORD in the 80s, I don' recall seeing them as much out here on "the coast". I flew one DFW-SAT in April 1989. That was my last ride on a -100.

Tom SJC
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greggariouspdx
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:39 am

I remember flying the 727-100 on the DFW-Fresno leg in 1990 and from DFW-CLE (yes I know CLE is NOT on the West Coast) as late as 1991.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:42 am

I remember seeing AA 727-100's from ORD and DFW to several smaller west coast cities like OAK, SJC and SAN back in the 1980's before the MD-80's really started to come online. For brief period, AA used 727-100's between LAX and SJC to Steamboat Springs, CO.
 
FX1816
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:05 am

Growing up, I remember seeing a few of them at ONT in the 1980s. Man I do miss 727s!!


FX1816
 
SANFan
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:10 am

Yes, we had scheduled 727-100s at Lindbergh Field for many years; if I had my AA timetables handy, I'd give you some specific flight info and dates... Great little airplane!

bb
 
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RWA380
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:16 am

PDX saw the 100 at least one a day from DFW and ORD, they also flew the 100 between PDX & EUG, When I was a Duck at U of O, I'd fly each way for 20 bucks for the short time they flew to EUG. 83/84/85 timeframe.
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n729pa
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:41 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 6):
PDX saw the 100 at least one a day from DFW and ORD

I flew N1972 PDX-ORD back in 1986, I think it had come in from ORD too, if memory serves me correctly.
 
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vhtje
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:59 am

Quoting fx1816 (Reply 4):
Man I do miss 727s!!

Egad, I don't! The noise those things made!

I distinctly remember in the early 1990s witnessing a 727 take off, followed immediately by a then-new 747-400. The 747 was almost silent in comparison to the ol' 3-holer.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:54 pm

Quoting vhtje (Reply 8):
Egad, I don't! The noise those things made!

I miss the rumble and crackle those P&W JT8D engines made when they took off...oh yeah...and the smoke.
 
gen2stew
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:46 pm

And don't forget how they the screamed and whined on the inside! Oh, how I do miss them, especially row 27 on 727strech!
I don't know why blessings wear disguises. If I were a blessing, I'd run around nude!
 
milesrich
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:11 pm

The use of 727's on flights to the west probably increased after September of 1981 when the 707 fleet was retired almost en masse following a May 1981 announcement to do so. Originally, PSP was served by 707's.
 
highflier92660
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:39 pm

American used the Boeing 727-100s on some pretty long hauls way back when. In our family archives is a photo dated March, 1982 at LAX, showing the short-body 727 with the elliptical S-duct pushing back from the terminal with a couple of our family members aboard, going back to CLE. That's two thousand and fifty statute miles in a plain vanilla 100.
 
milesrich
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:47 pm

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 12):
American used the Boeing 727-100s on some pretty long hauls way back when. In our family archives is a photo dated March, 1982 at LAX, showing the short-body 727 with the elliptical S-duct pushing back from the terminal with a couple of our family members aboard, going back to CLE. That's two thousand and fifty statute miles in a plain vanilla 100.

In 1982, until the 767 was delievered, American only had three aircraft capable of operating LAX - CLE nonstop, the 727-23, the DC-10, and the 747-123. The short body 727 had better range than the stretch airplane did, at least the original -200's.
 
JFKPurser
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:22 pm

I was hired by AA in 1986. At that point, most ORD-West and DFW-LAX/SFO services were operated with DC10s, 762s, and 722s. MD80s headed to BUR, SNA and smaller west coast cities from ORD and DFW initially, and then by the mid 1990s 727s hardly ever appeared any more in California -- the MD80 had usurped the 722 by that point.

I was based at LAX for 15 years, and during that time, never once saw a -100 operate there. That's not to say it's impossible that one or two did not cycle through LAX or SFO on a last-minute equipment swap, but I can say with confidence that no 727-23s were regularly scheduled.
 
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:14 pm

Quoting fx1816 (Reply 4):
Man I do miss 727s!!

They stay permanently in my heart.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 5):
Great little airplane!

Oh yes, absolutely. I remember back in the late 80s and early 90s when the 727-100 was a regular visitor in ALB, when I was a student at RPI. They used to fly 2x daily ALB-RDU, unless for some reason there would be a swap with a Stretched 200 model. And sometimes ALB-ORD. This lasted until late 1992 / early 1993 when the Fokker 100 arrived in the fleet. I flew on a 727-100 in 1991 from ALB to RDU on the day of my 21st birthday, I was connecting in RDU on a 200 to SAV. I remember talking to the flight engineer who mentioned that there were only minor changes between the 100 and the 200 models. That trip was quite nice. And I was happy.

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JFKPurser
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:12 am

From a flight attendant perspective, the -100 was a real pain. About half the -100 fleet was still being reconfigured in 1986 from the original 1964 era galleys with tray carriers to the newer -200 style galleys with 12 inch mobile carts. Either configuration could be maddening, because there was only one galley from which to serve a full meal in both F and Y cabins on longer segments. And in those days, even shorter legs such as ORD-YYZ were catered with a hot meal in both cabins, so things would get very cramped and messy in that tiny galley in the middle of the plane.

But there was something very cool and nostalgic about working that plane, many of which entered service a year or two before I was even born.
 
cschleic
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:52 am

I think I've got photos of them at Oakland and Sacramento. Flew one from SFO - DFW once. I guess, before the 727-200 and MD-80 came along, and if an airline didn't have 737's, the -100 was the only plane they had smaller than a 707 or DC-8 that made sense going half-way across the country.
 
Viscount724
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:07 am

Quoting Jackbr (Thread starter):
Were American's 727-100s used much on the West Coast?

AA 727-100 eastbound flight routings from west coast points from the December 12, 1967 timetable shown below. That was two months before AA's first 727-200 was delivered in February 1968. AA had 52 727-100s in service in December 1967 with a few more still to be delivered. That 7-stop SAN-JFK flight would have been fun.

LAX-MEM-SDF-LGA
LAX-STL-CVG-LGA
LAX-OKC-TUL-STL-LGA
LAX-DAL-BNA-DAY-CLE
LAX-PHX-TUS-ELP-LGA
LAX-SAN-PHX-TUS-ORD-YYZ

SAN-TUS-DAL-PHL
SAN-DAL-ORD-BOS
SAN-ORD-LGA
SAN-LAX-ELP-SAT-HOU-BNA-CVG-PIT-JFK

SFO-DAL-MEM-SDF-LGA
SFO-DAL-STL-CLE

And since ACA is also on the west coast, they also had one ACA-DAL 727-100 flight then. (At that time YYZ/MEX/ACA were AA's only international destinations.)

Looks like ELP-LGA was the longest 727-100 sector then (1655 nm), followed by SAN-ORD (1497 nm) and LAX-MEM (1407 nm). ELP-LGA wouldn't be permitted now (except on Saturday) due to the LGA perimeter rule.
 
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:43 am

When AA started FAT ( June 1990) it was with the 727-100..then as traffic grew many nights the evening DFW-FAT was subbed with a 72S then eventually both flights were 72S then probably somewhere along 1997 or 98 the switch was made to MD80's.

Quoting milesrich (Reply 11):
The use of 727's on flights to the west probably increased after September of 1981 when the 707 fleet was retired almost en masse following a May 1981 announcement to do so. Originally, PSP was served by 707's.

They were also deployed from ORD during the summer 1979 DC-10 Grounding by FAA administrator Langhorne Bond (post AA191) as recall taking 1 to PHX and SFO that summer. Those weeks of the DC-10 grounding the 727 fleet pulled a lot of shifts if you will trying to fill in on a lot of lost capacity.
 
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yyz717
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:32 pm

Quoting milesrich (Reply 13):
In 1982, until the 767 was delievered, American only had three aircraft capable of operating LAX - CLE nonstop, the 727-23, the DC-10, and the 747-123. The short body 727 had better range than the stretch airplane did, at least the original -200's.

Not correct. The 722 advanced could handle CLE-LAX. Indeed, AA flew YYZ-SFO with the 722.
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Viscount724
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:25 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 20):
Quoting milesrich (Reply 13):
In 1982, until the 767 was delievered, American only had three aircraft capable of operating LAX - CLE nonstop, the 727-23, the DC-10, and the 747-123. The short body 727 had better range than the stretch airplane did, at least the original -200's.

Not correct. The 722 advanced could handle CLE-LAX. Indeed, AA flew YYZ-SFO with the 722.

AC and CP also used the 722 on YUL-YVR and YOW-YVR which, like YYZ-SFO, are between 140 and 211 nm further than CLE-LAX.

YUL-YVR 1994 nm
YYZ-SFO 1963 nm
YOW-YVR 1923 nm
CLE-LAX 1783 nm
 
ozark1
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:50 am

I worked them all the time in the late 70's and the 80's. When we had the orange interior, we had a section called "The Twilight Zone". It consisted of approximately 4 to 5 rows of coach that were forward of the mid cabin galley, but behind F/C. The F/A #1 was responsible for service 10 F/C passengers and then the twilight zone in the main cabin. I believe the first configuration i remember was 10/98 and then it went to 10/108. When we ran trays, one fa would "set up" and the other would "serve". Since one galley was shared, the #1 had one side and the #2 and #4 had the other side. Whoever setup would put two trays on the counter, get the entrees out of the oven, and prepare them for the server who would run them. #1 sat on the forward jumpseat, #4 sat on the aisle seat of a passenger row right by the galley so they could have closest access to the door in an evacuation, and the #2 sat at the back in order to operate the air stairs in an emergency.
Overall the 100 was really not a fun plane to work because of the single galley. It did, initially, have TONS of closets for bags and carryon.
I remember working a 100 from LGA-DTW-STL-SAT-ELP-LAX-SAN. They were used a lot out of DFW to places like MEM, TYS, CMH, LIT, AMA, etc. They were also used in the Caribbean, which was a pain because the service was pretty elaborate.
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:57 am

Quoting vhtje (Reply 8):
The noise those things made!

...To say nothing of how 727s made the ground feel like a mini-earthquake was taking place if one was standing within ~0.25 mile/0.4 km of a 727 taking off! ...and to think that Eastern referred to their 727s as Whisperjets...which they actually were at the time they entered service...relatively speaking of course!

[Edited 2012-01-29 19:00:06]
 
Jackbr
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:05 am

Quoting ozark1 (Reply 22):

Would the senior FAs avoid biding 727-100 trips because of the galley?
 
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RWA380
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:52 am

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 12):
Quoting ozark1 (Reply 22):
and to think that Eastern referred to their 727s as Whisperjets

I was thinking this same exact thing when reading the replies about how noisy folks thought the 727 was. Wasn't it Whisperliner for the L-1011 and A-300?
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JFKPurser
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:42 pm

Not necessarily -- the bids were mixed together with the -200s, and later on also MD80s. So if you bid a 727 line for the month, you would have trips where one leg you were on a -100, and the next a -200. The extra FA -- called FA #3 -- for the -200 (you always had at least 4 FAs on a -200 vs minimum 3 FAs on the -100) was flying a separate sequence and met up with different crews and planes -- only -200s, so it was common that every leg the #3 FA would be different.

Sure, there were some people who would go out of their way not to fly it -- even today there are those of us who avoid certain planes -- but it was hard not to land on a -100 every now and then back in the old days flying for AA.
 
tommy767
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:07 pm

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 14):
I was hired by AA in 1986. At that point, most ORD-West and DFW-LAX/SFO services were operated with DC10s, 762s, and 722s. MD80s headed to BUR, SNA and smaller west coast cities from ORD and DFW initially, and then by the mid 1990s 727s hardly ever appeared any more in California -- the MD80 had usurped the 722 by that point.

I have an AA timetable from 1991 and it shows that some of the remaining 721 routes were from RDU. I believe RDU-EWR saw both 721's and 757s at that point in time. I'll have to look them up and post them.

Also when was the 721 officially retired from AA? I flew RDU-LGA in November 1993 but I think it was a 722. Could have been a 721 though.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
milesrich
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:27 pm

Quoting ozark1 (Reply 22):
I worked them all the time in the late 70's and the 80's. When we had the orange interior, we had a section called "The Twilight Zone". It consisted of approximately 4 to 5 rows of coach that were forward of the mid cabin galley, but behind F/C. The F/A #1 was responsible for service 10 F/C passengers and then the twilight zone in the main cabin. I believe the first configuration i remember was 10/98 and then it went to 10/108.

When the 727 was first introduced, the entire section foward of the galley was first class. There were 22-24 first class seats. United introduced their 727's with 2-3 S One class service, but when they were converted to an F-Y configuration, the seating was 24/72. In 1979, long after First class had "Shrunk", the seating was 10-86 with two large storage areas for carryon luggage between the First and Coach cabins foward of the single galley, and two rows of coach in front of the buffet . There was still 36 inches of pitch in coach and the extra carryon luggage and coat closet eliminated one row of seats
 
JFKPurser
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:56 pm

AA had an aux galley on the LH side just ahead of the leading edge. It contained a beverage cart and a closet. When the -100 fleet was reconfigured/re-galleyed during the 1980s, this was removed and two rows of seats were placed there.
 
JFKPurser
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:59 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 27):
I have an AA timetable from 1991 and it shows that some of the remaining 721 routes were from RDU. I believe RDU-EWR saw both 721's and 757s at that point in time. I'll have to look them up and post them.

Also when was the 721 officially retired from AA? I flew RDU-LGA in November 1993 but I think it was a 722. Could have been a 721 though.

RDU and BNA were hotbeds of -100 activity in the early 1990s. I want to say the -100 left the AA fleet in 1995...
 
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longhauler
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:14 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 20):
Quoting milesrich (Reply 13):
In 1982, until the 767 was delievered, American only had three aircraft capable of operating LAX - CLE nonstop, the 727-23, the DC-10, and the 747-123. The short body 727 had better range than the stretch airplane did, at least the original -200's.

Not correct. The 722 advanced could handle CLE-LAX. Indeed, AA flew YYZ-SFO with the 722.

Actually he is correct. As he refers to the "original -200s".

When the first -200s were introduced, they were not much heavier than the last of the -100s, and thus while having a much higher capacity, they were pretty limited with respect to range. The original mission of the first -200s was for high capacity and short distance, like ORD-LGA, or BOS-LGA. In the day of AA's (for example) 707-123Bs and 707-323Bs, a long range aircraft of that size was not needed.

When the -200 Advanced was introduced, then the weights, and thus ranges, you and Viscount724 mention became possible. In fact it has been noted that while the -200 Basic was a reasonable machine, it was the -200 Advanced that made the B727 the big seller it became.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
tommy767
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:24 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 31):
When the -200 Advanced was introduced, then the weights, and thus ranges, you and Viscount724 mention became possible. In fact it has been noted that while the -200 Basic was a reasonable machine, it was the -200 Advanced that made the B727 the big seller it became.

What was the delivery timeline for AA between the 727 variations? Were the ADVs delivered in the late 1970s like Delta's were?
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
milesrich
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:13 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 32):
What was the delivery timeline for AA between the 727 variations? Were the ADVs delivered in the late 1970s like Delta's were?

The first -223's were delivered in 1968. My first flight on one was on the ORD-LGA route that spring. The first Advanced -200's were delivered by Boeing in 1972. It appears from the Boeing fleet list that the first 727-223A delivered to American was N843AA, and it was delivered in 1975. In 1981, American purchased Braniff's oldest 727-227A's and they were registered beginning with N721AA.
 
Viscount724
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:57 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 31):
while the -200 Basic was a reasonable machine, it was the -200 Advanced that made the B727 the big seller it became.

The first -200 Advanced built was the one below, JA8343, line no. 881, delivered to ANA June 30, 1972.

http://img.blogs.yahoo.co.jp/ybi/1/52/5a/ja724fj/folder/778333/img_778333_36438625_10?1216290442


But I believe the one below was the first delivered (and 3rd built), EC-CAJ, line no 883, delivered to IB April 20, 1972.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.



The 3rd delivered (and 2nd built) was EC-CAI, line no. 882, delivered to IB April 29, 1972.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Fergal Goodman

 
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longhauler
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RE: AA 727-100s On West Coast

Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:36 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 34):
The first -200 Advanced built was the one below, JA8343, line no. 881, delivered to ANA June 30, 1972.

Yes. In the late 1960s/early 1970s, B727 sales were waning. When the B727 Advanced was first offered to the airlines in 1970, a further 1000 were sold.

While 1800 aircraft does not seem like a lot today, in the 1970s that was huge.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!

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