tdzui
Topic Author
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Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:12 am

Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:37 am

DPS-SIN.This may come as a surprise as SIA has never been known for this but I and many people have noticed a huge deterioration in their standards lately. The Airline is a more extension of the police state. It accepts no criticism and threatens complainants with untold consequences . I have flown with them many times and even redeemed a SIN-BCN return flight once. I am still on Star Alliance silver. The experience on that flight was most appalling. I was told to sit up straight in a rude way by a cabin crew and I responded by criticizing him in a slightly harsh way but didn’t do anything unruly. It was an early morning flight and I am sleep deprived. After that I even overheard the male FA asking a female FA "Where is he from" to which she replied "Malaysia". He subsequently said "Malaysia. Third world country still dare to complaint us ah" in the typical singlish(broken singapore english) manner. It is a manifestation of the crews treating certain nationalities differently and I was targeted for harrasment on the basis of my nationality although criticizing the crew verbally without threatening their safety is not unruly or illegal. Such dscrimination is illegal in some jurisdictions

I have never been spoken to in a such as a rude way in my hundreds of flights(including budge carriers which is the biggest irony). I was threatened with detention by security at the airport if I don’t show “remorse” and apologize to the crew concerned on the basis of using”vulgarities”. It is the most self serving act you can expect from a reputable airline and it is no better than how North Koreans are expected to worship Kim Jong Il under all circumstances despite what he did . Using harsh language is not a criminal offense and I have every right to express my criticisms on rude crew papers although the language may be a bit harsh. They must learn to take criticisms in their stride and not respond to them in a heavy handed manner similar to police states

Threatening me with security on board is defamatory , discriminatory and an affront to my repuation as I have broke no laws and I am seriously considering suing the airline
 
9w748capt
Posts: 780
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:50 am

Can you share any more details? You were told to sit up straight rudely? Can you describe how you were sitting and what the f/a said exactly? I'm sorry you have a bad experience. I've never flown SQ, but if they did make racist comments about your national origin, that is totally uncalled for.
 
tdzui
Topic Author
Posts: 10
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:03 am

I had seal belt fastened. Seat upright during take off checks. I was sort of leaning towards one side(Not all FA will find it objectionable as Ive done it before) but the male FA walked screamed at me to sit upright while walking past without even stopping to address me. His failure to even stop and address me in person is very rude. I reponded by telling him that he has no manner in a harsh way but I was still seated and didnt get up at any stage. Therefore, the safety of the FA and the passengers were never threatened.
 
usflyer msp
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:22 am

I don't believe your story (I read the full version on another forum where you didn't get any sympathy). I noticed you conveniently left out the part where you cursed at the cabin crew. Sounds like you were being an elitist ass and got what you deserved. If you don't respect other people...they will not respect you.
 
airpearl
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:55 am

Quoting tdzui (Thread starter):
Threatening me with security on board is defamatory , discriminatory and an affront to my repuation as I have broke no laws and I am seriously considering suing the airline

You should, if you believe you have a case. But based on this 'trip report' alone, I am tempted to side with the airline, and can't help feeling sorry for what the crew on that DPS-SIN flight had to go through.

.
 
jetblue777
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:15 am

I really don't think the cabin crew were being "rude" to you because of your nationality...it was most likely because of how you reacted during the situation.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 3):
I don't believe your story (I read the full version on another forum where you didn't get any sympathy). I noticed you conveniently left out the part where you cursed at the cabin crew. Sounds like you were being an elitist ass and got what you deserved. If you don't respect other people...they will not respect you.

I agree.   

Quoting tdzui (Thread starter):
have never been spoken to in a such as a rude way

and yet you admittedly said that you used vulgar words to the cabin crew  
Quoting tdzui (Thread starter):
North Koreans are expected to worship Kim Jong Il


........
It's a cultural thing.
 
tdzui
Topic Author
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:12 am

RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:27 am

Quoting jetblue777 (Reply 5):
really don't think the cabin crew were being "rude" to you because of your nationality...it was most likely because of how you reacted during the situation

The FA explicitly made the discriminatory remark to another FA in the aft galley. They were prob hoping that nobody heard it but unfortunantely I did.

Quoting jetblue777 (Reply 5):
and yet you admittedly said that you used vulgar words to the cabin crew

I only said that he has no manners , didnt call him any names such pig etc. It was not a personal attack by any means. My remarks lasted no more than a few seconds. The fact that he screamed at me while walking past constitutes a form of abuse as well. I have not said anything to any FA prior to that.
 
sfflyer123
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:14 am

Don't see how this is "racist". Malaysias and Singaporeans are all Asians. Perhaps discriminatory or xenophobic may be a better term, but it's not like you were Asian and were treated rudely by white people, etc. You were treated rudely by other Asians.
 
SEA
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:37 am

Quoting tdzui (Thread starter):
Where is he from" to which she replied "Malaysia". He subsequently said "Malaysia. Third world country still dare to complaint us ah" in the typical singlish(broken singapore english) manner.

That's odd, it sounds like, even if this situation actually happened, that you're a bit of a racist yourself.
 
tonystan
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:53 am

If your seat back is upright, your seatbelt is fastened and youre not lying across a row of seats then I dont care how else you sit on a seat as long as you are comfortable and safe!

Strange behaviour if a steward was having a go at you.

However I do accept that there is probably more to this story then meets the eye!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
EK773
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:58 am

I've read this story on another forum site last night aswell. Some of the details mentioned here were not on this other site.

Appears that the story has been 'beefed' up to look for sympathy which was not very forthcoming on the other forum.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:21 am

Quoting EK773 (Reply 10):
Appears that the story has been 'beefed' up to look for sympathy which was not very forthcoming on the other forum.

Agreed.

And what happenned to the part when the OP told the crew to "watch his f**king manners?"

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/135/80771458.jpg

Source: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17883217-post6.html
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
detroitflyer
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:27 am

Quoting EK773 (Reply 10):
I've read this story on another forum site last night aswell.
Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 3):
I don't believe your story (I read the full version on another forum where you didn't get any sympathy).

aiight guys, what fourm is this, i need the scoop?
Boiler Up!!!
 
tdzui
Topic Author
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:41 am

Interesting looks like there is some ironic coincidences here.looks like someone is so paranoid about anyone sayinganything negative on sq until they have to monitor all the blogs or negative comments this is what u call police state anyway. Maybe some ISP should be checked for multiple accouts I am addressing a genuine grievance and there is nothing more to that. No one can deny that discriminatory remarks ate against the law and screaming at a passenger first without provocation is a form of abuse
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:55 am

While I do not support using abusive language to the crew (or anyone for that matter), I am terribly disappointed by Singapore Airlines crew using discriminatory remarks. While it seems like the OP has inconsistencies in the story, I just can't see her/him taking the time to make up this. What's the point? The larger issue is if indeed SQ crew used such language. Maybe it is time for these crew to 'scoot' over   ...

Saludos,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:00 am

Quoting tdzui (Thread starter):
I responded by criticizing him in a slightly harsh way but didn’t do anything unruly.
Quoting tdzui (Reply 13):
screaming at a passenger first without provocation is a form of abuse

You're not engendering much credibility are you...

Again,

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/135/80771458.jpg
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:34 am

First somehow I perhaps can see more than one that have faulted in this story so I reserve judgement about this case.

But I have witnessed discriminatory comments on SQ as well and it is never ok. You can always reprimand passengers in a professional way and no matter what they do an employee can never use racial arguments.
Now I have never had these comments directed towards me but to passengers from the labour exporting nations to Singapore. Usually Indians or Indonesians.
It is the exception to the rule and every organisation will have a few bad apples.

I do believe though that Singapore itself has woken up to this new generation of men with lets say a less hardworking attitude than the previous generation that worked hard and saved money like there was no tomorrow. The image of the maid carrying the soldiers backpack certainly caused an earthquake and was the talk of the town for a good month.

But as said, in this particular case I reserve judgement.

We should keep in mind that there are a few different races in Malaysia as well and that many Malaysians work on SQ and in Singapore as a whole. Usually jobs are open to Singapore or Malaysian nationals in Singapore.
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
 
tdzui
Topic Author
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:38 am

Quoting SInGAPORE_AIR (Reply 15):
Quoting tdzui (Thread starter):
I responded by criticizing him in a slightly harsh way but didn’t do anything unruly.
Quoting tdzui (Reply 13):
screaming at a passenger first without provocation is a form of abuse

You're not engendering much credibility are you...

This is getting more interesting . I am beginning to see a very insidious pattern here which may . It seems there are multiple accounts quoting the same website. I do not condone abusive languages either. However, it cannot be denied the cruz of the matter is the discrimatory remark which is downright illegal in some jurisdictions. it cannot be condoned under any circumstances The whole incident was in fact started by an unprovoked abusive screaming by the FA at the first place when he walked past doing safety checks without even looking at me.
 
MIAspotter
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:39 am

Well, if you are told to sit up straight in a rude manner, then it´s uncalled for and not very professional from the CC side, there are softer, more polite ways for crews to give orders and they should know them.

You could have replied by saying ¨Excuse me¨ and then trying to politely argue with the crew member to be a bit more respectful to PAX when giving orders, but if you reply in the same rude way to the crew, then you lost the case.

Regardless the nationality comments from the crew were out of place.

My 2 cents.

MIAspotter.
Nos vamos de Vueling?
 
hz747300
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:48 am

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 16):
We should keep in mind that there are a few different races in Malaysia as well and that many Malaysians work on SQ and in Singapore as a whole. Usually jobs are open to Singapore or Malaysian nationals in Singapore.

Using that logic there are many races in Singapore as well, mostly similar to the composition of Malaysia, but with more Chinese than Malaysia, and a lot more Westerners. While I'm sure there is a superiority complex, with Singaporeans versus their neighbors, I don't believe the embellishment of the overheard comments.

I can't see a crew member ever swearing at a passenger, doing so, they would know that they are facing suspension at best. Since you wrote on flyertalk that you did swear back, I have an idea what happened.

Agreed that SQ's service has deteriorated, but it has nothing to do with racism. Cathay's has as well.
Keep on truckin'...
 
docpepz
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:09 am

I see that the thread on flyertalk has been locked as it "got out of hand" in the words of one of the mods. I'm also not sure how this thread should be under "Trip Reports", shouldn't it be in the main foruM?

I think 30-40% of SQ Cabin crew are Malaysians, and there are plenty of Malaysian pilots in SQ as well. It's difficult to tell as our accents are so similar.
 
tdzui
Topic Author
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:07 am

That foum got out of hand because it was hijacked by some vested interests. Therefore let's not deviate and stick to the main points here are there grounds to sue for defamation on the basis of the fa discriminatory remarks "malaysia third world country still dare to complaint us ah"
 
Lufthansa
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:31 am

I really don't know why you lot are all surprised, Discrimination is rife in Asia. I always find it strange
when I see asians come down to Australia/NZ and call all the white people racist when you see Hong Kong chinese calling the Philippines a nation of domestic servants and prostitudes, and Singapore Chinese looking down their nose at indians like they're only good for construction work. And let's not even get started on the Japanese, who quietly believe they are superior to all other Asian races to the extent that they have a separate alphabet for foreign words so as not to 'pollute' their own language.

My advice to the op. Do what plenty of Asian Australians and Asian Kiwis do and fly a western carrier. You will be treated much much better in terms of the only class structure on board is going to come down to what class you bought your ticket in. However you may have to forgo a few amenities and the style of service will be more informal. But you won't be be judged by your passport unless you're Nigerian (way way too many scam emails sent out in the west).
 
EK773
Posts: 178
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:34 am

More than happy to have my ISP checked. No double ups coming from my side. The only thing i confess to is being an active reader/observer on many aviation related sites. Therefore it was not difficult to see the same story come up twice.

If you were really game, you could also post your story on the sqtalk site where they are very protective.

The described behaviour of both parties should not be acceptable whether it be in an aircraft, hotel, restaurant or other locations. Some people tend to lower their behaviour to match the other person rather than being the better person and rising above it, even if it means having to bite your tongue or take a deep breath.
 
docpepz
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:43 am

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 22):
I really don't know why you lot are all surprised, Discrimination is rife in Asia. I always find it strange
when I see asians come down to Australia/NZ and call all the white people racist when you see Hong Kong chinese calling the Philippines a nation of domestic servants and prostitudes, and Singapore Chinese looking down their nose at indians like they're only good for construction work.

As a Singaporean of part Indian ancestry, I'm slightly peeved at your statement. I have never been treated worse than other Asians on SIA flights, and their cabin crew have not treated me any different to how they'd treat anyone else. Generally if you're nice to someone, they would reciprocate, and this is regardless of race, language or religion.

And having flown 140,000 miles on SQ last year, it's not just a sweeping statement.

We have an ethnic Indian Deputy PM, had an ethnic Indian President, and people of Indian ancestry are way over represented in parliament and senior management of local and foreign companies based in Singapore.
 
tdzui
Topic Author
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:36 am

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 22):

I dont disagree Klm even offers wine in Y on cgk - kul as well as avod.Westerners are not any more judgemental than Asians in my experience. I have spend some years in aus as a Melbourne Uni student and my best friend is white. Australia does have a racial discrimination act and I wonder there is any recourse under sing laws for this type of remark
 
Pellegrine
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:01 pm

Not taking sides but...

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 22):
I really don't know why you lot are all surprised, Discrimination is rife in Asia. I always find it strange
when I see asians come down to Australia/NZ and call all the white people racist when you see Hong Kong chinese calling the Philippines a nation of domestic servants and prostitudes, and Singapore Chinese looking down their nose at indians like they're only good for construction work. And let's not even get started on the Japanese, who quietly believe they are superior to all other Asian races to the extent that they have a separate alphabet for foreign words so as not to 'pollute' their own language.

  

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 16):
But I have witnessed discriminatory comments on SQ as well and it is never ok. You can always reprimand passengers in a professional way and no matter what they do an employee can never use racial arguments.
Now I have never had these comments directed towards me but to passengers from the labour exporting nations to Singapore. Usually Indians or Indonesians.
It is the exception to the rule and every organisation will have a few bad apples.

  

Wouldn't be the first time on SQ, and certainly won't be the last.
oh boy!!!
 
sqb7e
Posts: 66
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:04 pm

In my opinion I don't see the point in posting this, its not gonna achieve anything. If you really think that you were mistreated then complain to SQ directly. They are very good at following up on complaints and due to the fact it became such an issue a voyage report regarding the incident was surely made by the IFS.

Although I am trying to stay as neutral as possible the discrepancies in your two forum posts do lead me to believe you did cross the line in your approach to the crew.

Cheers
 
AngMoh
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:03 am

RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:25 pm

Quoting SQB7E (Reply 27):
In my opinion I don't see the point in posting this, its not gonna achieve anything. If you really think that you were mistreated then complain to SQ directly. They are very good at following up on complaints and due to the fact it became such an issue a voyage report regarding the incident was surely made by the IFS.

Although I am trying to stay as neutral as possible the discrepancies in your two forum posts do lead me to believe you did cross the line in your approach to the crew.

   Exactly.

This forum is talking about aviation, not about personal squabbles. I am pretty sure that if the SQ staff was truly racist, they will be terminated. What happens with 2 way thrash talk, I am not sure. To find out what will happen you will need to feed back in a complete, precise, honest and polite way, rather than complain in forums all over the place.
 
tdzui
Topic Author
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:03 pm

Quoting SQB7E (Reply 27):

You must be joking sq does not even have complaints hotline or a direct email for complaints. It is infamous for not replying to complaints. My previous one was brushed aside and other pax that i know experienced the same thing. That's why recourse to other means is needed. Given how they treated me and also the way a male crew punched an intoxicated passenger on a Bcn sin flt, I have given up on them.
 
babybus
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:05 pm

This story would have far more credibility if you were referring to letters you wrote to SQ and the letters you received from them. One wouldn't expect someone to open a new profile on here and use it just to rant.

The cabin crew member wouldn't have said anything to you if you were complying with safety instructions.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
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metalinyoni
Posts: 255
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:16 pm

Quoting tdzui (Thread starter):
typical singlish(broken singapore english) manner

Thats just as "racist" as

Quoting tdzui (Thread starter):
"Malaysia. Third world country

Honestly I don't think either statement is particularly racist and to call either racist is just hyper sensitivity.

Racism is a big problem but this isn't it and calling this racism devalues the real arguments against racism.

Go and have a beer and relax. (if you don't drink have a cup of iced tea)
300, 310, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 342, 343, 345, 346, 380, 707, 727, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 742, 743, 744, 752, 753,
 
Rara
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:18 pm

Quoting sfflyer123 (Reply 7):
Don't see how this is "racist". Malaysias and Singaporeans are all Asians. Perhaps discriminatory or xenophobic may be a better term, but it's not like you were Asian and were treated rudely by white people, etc. You were treated rudely by other Asians.

Oh dear, where to start. Asia is a continent, not a race. Are French anti-Semites not racist because Jews are Europeans? Is it not racism if US citizens look down on Mexicans because they're all American?

Quoting SEA (Reply 8):

Where is he from" to which she replied "Malaysia". He subsequently said "Malaysia. Third world country still dare to complaint us ah" in the typical singlish(broken singapore english) manner.

That's odd, it sounds like, even if this situation actually happened, that you're a bit of a racist yourself.

How so? Many Singaporeans speak like that, and Singlish is a well-known term.


Anyway, moral of the story is, if you have a complaint about an airline crew, don't come to a.net about it.   Crews will always be defended here.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
LTC8K6
Posts: 1444
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:40 pm

Here in the U.S., I would be in trouble for referring to "singlish" in reference to someone from Singapore. Just as I would be in trouble for "spanglish" or "chingrish" etc.

Were I to use the terms on the job, I would likely be fired.
 
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huaiwei
Posts: 258
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RE: Intimidation By Racist SIA Staff

Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:09 pm

Quoting tdzui (Thread starter):
The Airline is a more extension of the police state. It accepts no criticism and threatens complainants with untold consequences .

With lines like these, it is no wonder you received no sympathy. If you have a problem with this country, any tiny incident can be perceived to be an extension of your sweeping and discriminatory views of other nations whom you obviously see as arrogant, when you are showing all signs of having an inferiority complex.

Quoting tdzui (Thread starter):
I was threatened with detention by security at the airport if I don’t show “remorse” and apologize to the crew concerned on the basis of using”vulgarities”.

This sounds like a tall tale coming from a kid who complains to his parents about being "abused" by his teachers in school. Now if this happens in Malaysia, where corruption is rife, it is not a surprise. That Singaporeans have been detained by Malaysian authorities for the most absurd things has been well publicised, but just because that happens in Malaysia does not mean it is going to happen in Singapore. I am sorry, but I am quite sure you either made this up or exaggerated it a great deal. Our security officials are much too professional to be involved in such matters.

Quoting tdzui (Thread starter):
Using harsh language is not a criminal offense and I have every right to express my criticisms on rude crew papers although the language may be a bit harsh.

Certainly not true. Under the Singapore Penal Code (Chapter 224) Section 504, you can be liable for persecution for "Intentional insult with intent to provoke a breach of the peace". Similar laws exits in numerous states, including from your own country. Kindly read up on your own laws before you think you can spew vulgarities to make a point, when the same point could be expressed in a far more civilised manner.

So in a nutshell, sorry. No sympathy from me either.
It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)

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