YYZ T1 Gate Numbers Being Renumbered

CGKings317 · Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:37 am

Hi A.netters!

According to AC, it looks like T1 gate numbers will be renumbered

Quoting Air Canada:

On January 31, 2012, Toronto’s Pearson International Airport will implement gate signage changes to make it even easier for travellers to find their gates.

You’ll see:

A ‘D’ for domestic flights
An ‘E’ for international travel, and
An ‘F’ for U.S. destinations

Source: http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelinfo/airport/toronto.html

I have spent 10s of hours over the course of the past 2 years connecting in YYZ's T1 and always found it interesting the way gate numbers were designated. You have the 120s to 140s for domestic, 150s and 160s (and the 200s) for US-bound planes and, to top it off the 170s for the non-US International departures. Sometimes, there is a major number gap between two adjacent gates. I never really got the whole gate number scheme even though I now have YYZ T1 layout basically committed to memory.

Thoughts on this new plan?

~CGKings317

JAGflyer · Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:45 am

Currently Terminal 3 has A, B, C gates. A and B are US flights and C gates are for domestic/int'l. Of interesting note, the short term parking beyond the RJ gates at T1 are now numbered "H" instead of "E".

I'm guessing they'll be making gates 100-140 "D", 140-168/191/200's "F" and 170-181 "E". Hopefully they'll fix the off-number gates (183, 168A, 168B, 191).

nyc2theworld · Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:47 am

This will be interesting...I am connecting through YYZ monday and again on the 3rd. I hope all signage is in place by the 3rd.

RP TPA · Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:52 am

What are they going to do with the "swing" gates? For example, gates 132/134/151/153 can be used as domestic or transborder gates, depending on how the barriers are set up. Same for the back of the t/border finger.....170 and 180 can be both USA or international. Will the letter designator be a fixed sign, or will it electronically controlled? That way, as an example, former gate 151 could be D51 if used for a domestic flight, and F51 if used for a USA flight.

JAGflyer · Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:21 pm

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 3):

I don't know of any electronically controlled gate numbering systems but I can imagine it'll be like T3 where the B gates and C gates can be used for both domestic and int'l flights.

krisyyz · Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:23 pm

Slightly off topic, but how many A380 capable gates are there at YYZ T1 ?

I know the expansion of T1 and the eventual linking of T1 and T3 are way down the road. Has GTAA given any updates regarding the timeline for expansion, or has the entire "mega terminal" and new runway 23L/05R project been put on hold?

KrisYYZ

longhauler · Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:40 pm

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 1):
I'm guessing they'll be making gates 100-140 "D", 140-168/191/200's "F" and 170-181 "E". Hopefully they'll fix the off-number gates (183, 168A, 168B, 191).

It is only "internally" that the gates are being renumbered. On the outside gate 155 (for example) will always be 155.

But when AC 142 (for example) arrives from YVR it will arrive at gate D55, when the flight turns around as AC799 to LAX, it will depart from gate F55. (same gate) When AC 701 from LGA arrives at gate 169, it will show as gate F69, but when the flight turns to AC960 to ANU, it will leave from gate E69. (same gate)

So gates 101-138 (in snake fashion around the terminal) are domestic only gates, internally labeled D01 to D38. Gates 136-157 are domestic/trans-border swing gates, labeled D36 to D57 when domestic, and F36 to F57 when trans-border. Gates 161 - 167, then 166 - 193 are trans-border only labeled F61 -F67, F66-F93. 171 - 180 are international only gates in the hammerhead, labeled E71- E80. The trans-border/international swing gates, 169, 170, 181 and 168 are labeled Fxx when trans-border, and Exx when international.

Clear as mud, huh?

pnwtraveler · Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:45 pm

Quoting krisyyz (Reply 5):
Slightly off topic, but how many A380 capable gates are there at YYZ T1 ?

There are two gates at Terminal 1 and one at Terminal 3 that are A380 ready. I don't see a second A380 flight happening anytime soon.

Quoting krisyyz (Reply 5):
I know the expansion of T1 and the eventual linking of T1 and T3 are way down the road. Has GTAA given any updates regarding the timeline for expansion, or has the entire "mega terminal" and new runway 23L/05R project been put on hold?

It will be traffic driven. I don't see it being needed for anytime before the PanAm Games. With the new aircraft parking where the former Terminal 2 and parking structure was, aircraft can be prepped away from the gates to ease any push for gates. The new short communter runway probably won't be needed for quite a while.

If the guesses where the growth in international air traffic out of YYZ is going to happen are correct, you will see a lot more South America, which typically are late night departures. You will see some more direct China and Asia routes out of YYZ that can route outside of the dinner hour Europe rush hour of departures. Europe is soft and if the economic crisis continues that will mean a few more destinations but likely not a lot more volume to other centres like LHR.

The next phase you might see is another extension put on the RJ/Commuter gates to the East of Terminal One to handle more US expansion/flights. If the Competition Bureau eases their concerns and the cross border UA/AC quasi merger happens, you will see at first flight consolidations, so a reduction in flights. Then you will see relaunches into smaller centres and perhaps more frequency. So you might see two close UA and AC flights merged and upgraded to a 757 from an A320 or B737.

RP TPA · Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:57 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 6):
It is only "internally" that the gates are being renumbered. On the outside gate 155 (for example) will always be 155.

But when AC 142 (for example) arrives from YVR it will arrive at gate D55, when the flight turns around as AC799 to LAX, it will depart from gate F55. (same gate) When AC 701 from LGA arrives at gate 169, it will show as gate F69, but when the flight turns to AC960 to ANU, it will leave from gate E69. (same gate)

So gates 101-138 (in snake fashion around the terminal) are domestic only gates, internally labeled D01 to D38. Gates 136-157 are domestic/trans-border swing gates, labeled D36 to D57 when domestic, and F36 to F57 when trans-border. Gates 161 - 167, then 166 - 193 are trans-border only labeled F61 -F67, F66-F93. 171 - 180 are international only gates in the hammerhead, labeled E71- E80. The trans-border/international swing gates, 169, 170, 181 and 168 are labeled Fxx when trans-border, and Exx when international.

Clear as mud, huh?

Uh, yes

You wrote that this is an "internal" change, and the signs will remain the same, however the press release indicates the signage will indeed show the alpha-numeric gate numbers.

I guess we'll all find out by tomorrow.

longhauler · Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:43 pm

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 8):
You wrote that this is an "internal" change, and the signs will remain the same, however the press release indicates the signage will indeed show the alpha-numeric gate numbers.

When I referred to "internal" I meant inside the terminal. So to a passenger, the signs will change. But, outside the terminal, externally the numbers actually on the gate will not change.

So, while a passenger will see D44 on his boarding pass, and D44 on the gate inside the terminal, we will be told the aircraft is on gate 144, and outside the terminal, it will be labeled as 144.

HKG212 · Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:18 pm

Quoting CGKings317 (Thread starter):
I have spent 10s of hours over the course of the past 2 years connecting in YYZ's T1 and always found it interesting the way gate numbers were designated. You have the 120s to 140s for domestic, 150s and 160s (and the 200s) for US-bound planes and, to top it off the 170s for the non-US International departures. Sometimes, there is a major number gap between two adjacent gates. I never really got the whole gate number scheme even though I now have YYZ T1 layout basically committed to memory.

I spent a very long time in the late 90s and early 2000s fashioning the original numbering scheme with other consultants and the GTAA. It was a huge struggle because of the overlapping sectors and the large number of swing gates. The logic we settled on eventually was somewhere between the sectors (domestic/transborder/international) and the zone (Piers D/E/F and what we called the "liners" between E and F and F and the future G). Very interesting that 10 years later they have decided to change. It seems like a good move but would seem to require dynamic gate signs, an idea that at the time was rejected.

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 1):
Currently Terminal 3 has A, B, C gates.

Big difference -- in T3 each pier has its own designated sector, at least in principle, which makes the gate identifyers much easier. That approach was dropped in the initial design of T1 pretty quickly as it is very inflexible.

RP TPA · Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:55 pm

Quoting HKG212 (Reply 10):
. It seems like a good move but would seem to require dynamic gate signs, an idea that at the time was rejected.

By this, do you mean what I was suggesting in my earlier post? By making the gate nunber electronically controlled, the swing gate could simply be changed from a "D" to "F" gate, or "E" to "F", depending on its next departure (as Longhauler had mentioned in reply #6).

CXH · Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:01 pm

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 3):
What are they going to do with the "swing" gates? For example, gates 132/134/151/153 can be used as domestic or transborder gates, depending on how the barriers are set up. Same for the back of the t/border finger.....170 and 180 can be both USA or international. Will the letter designator be a fixed sign, or will it electronically controlled? That way, as an example, former gate 151 could be D51 if used for a domestic flight, and F51 if used for a USA flight.

That's how it works at YVR. Gates 50 to 52 are swing domestic / international gates and they may be C5x or D5x as appropriate. I believe wall signage is either "C51 / D51" or just simply "Gate 51".

This map shows them:
http://www.yvr.ca/Libraries/Maps/Terminal_Map.sflb.ashx

JAGflyer · Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:32 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 6):

So the numbers on the ramp will stay the same is what you're saying? I told everyone at work (thinking they were renumbering the gates externally). Oops :p Will it just be AC flight's that have the new gate numbers or will all the airlines in T1 be following the new gate assignments?

krisyyz · Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:37 am

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 7):

I appreciate the update!

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 7):
There are two gates at Terminal 1 and one at Terminal 3 that are A380 ready. I don't see a second A380 flight happening anytime soon.

I didn't know T3 had one two! Which gate is A380 capable at T3? I assume pax can board the 2nd level as well ?

KrisYYZ

longhauler · Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:40 am

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 13):
Will it just be AC flight's that have the new gate numbers or will all the airlines in T1 be following the new gate assignments?

This new system is being implemented by the GTAA, so it will be all flights out of T1.

HKG212 · Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:03 am

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 11):
By this, do you mean what I was suggesting in my earlier post? By making the gate nunber electronically controlled, the swing gate could simply be changed from a "D" to "F" gate, or "E" to "F", depending on its next departure (as Longhauler had mentioned in reply #6).

Yes. I just checked with the people working on it and this is exactly what will be done, capitalizing on the "digital dot" graphics of the existing signs.

tribird1011 · Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:53 pm

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 7):
There are two gates at Terminal 1 and one at Terminal 3 that are A380 ready. I don't see a second A380 flight happening anytime soon.

From a physical dimension point of view, I think that C34 or C35 are the only two gates that could fit the A380, however, neither gate currently has a marked stop line for the A380, as such, I can only say that no gate at T3 can currently handle a 380.

Quoting krisyyz (Reply 14):
I didn't know T3 had one two! Which gate is A380 capable at T3? I assume pax can board the 2nd level as well ?

There are no gates at T3 with double bridges, so even if the gate could handle an A380, it would all have to be done via a single door... not fun!!!

FWIW, C32 is a rather funny gate in that it has plenty of room, but it can't handle a B737!!

pnwtraveler · Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:02 pm

Quoting tribird1011 (Reply 17):
Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 7):There are two gates at Terminal 1 and one at Terminal 3 that are A380 ready. I don't see a second A380 flight happening anytime soon.
From a physical dimension point of view, I think that C34 or C35 are the only two gates that could fit the A380, however, neither gate currently has a marked stop line for the A380, as such, I can only say that no gate at T3 can currently handle a 380.

Quoting krisyyz (Reply 14):I didn't know T3 had one two! Which gate is A380 capable at T3? I assume pax can board the 2nd level as well ?

There are no gates at T3 with double bridges, so even if the gate could handle an A380, it would all have to be done via a single door... not fun!!!

FWIW, C32 is a rather funny gate in that it has plenty of room, but it can't handle a B737!!

I will have to dig out the materials that were used for the trials of T1 to get the gate number. I don't think it was A380 ready today but designed to be A380 capable. So a second arm might need to be installed and lines painted but room etc. available for an A380. It was one of the redone gates at the end of the pier when they did the last reno's at then International area.

T1 Gate 173 is the only one fully outfitted for the A380. There is room at 175 as well.

Kaiarahi · Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:33 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 6):
Gates 136-157 are domestic/trans-border swing gates, labeled D36 to D57 when domestic, and F36 to F57

Maybe I'm simple minded, but it sounds confusing for pax trying to find a gate - if I'm looking far an F gate, it could be in the middle of the Dxxx gates in one concourse, amongst the Exxx gates in another concourse - or even actually with the rest of the dedicated F gates.

polaris · Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:14 pm

The "re-numbering" is much simpler than it appears (or a-piers!). Terminal 1 has piers D, E, and F. The gates are basically being re-numbered by pier - think of it that way. When pier G is built, those gates will be Gxx.

longhauler · Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:15 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 19):
Maybe I'm simple minded, but it sounds confusing for pax trying to find a gate - if I'm looking far an F gate, it could be in the middle of the Dxxx gates in one concourse, amongst the Exxx gates in another concourse - or even actually with the rest of the dedicated F gates.

Its not as confusing as it may appear. If you clear Domestic security, the only gates you will find are D gates. You may follow corridors like a mouse in a maze, but it WILL be a D gate. If you went through Trans-border Customs and Security, you will only find F gates. Again, when it comes to the swing gates, you may do a few turns but you will only find F gates. Likewise with International. Go through security, and you will only find E gates.

That doesn't mean though, that a D gate will be next door to an F gate, or an E gate ... you just wont know it.

Quoting polaris (Reply 20):
Terminal 1 has piers D, E, and F. The gates are basically being re-numbered by pier - think of it that way.

90% of the time, but not always. There will be piers with both D and F gates, and piers with both E and F gates ... and if Jupiter, Saturn and Mars are aligned ... and if gate 157 is domestic ... you will have one pier with all three, D, E and F!

RP TPA · Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:48 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 21):
That doesn't mean though, that a D gate will be next door to an F gate, or an E gate ... you just wont know it.

Actually, you would know it, because you could see thru the glass wall that divides the gates. But your "world" (domestic, transborder, international) would be closed off from the other "world". Last time I was YYZ, I was waiting for the late flight to Orlando, and decided to walk around the transborder gate area. I went as far as gate 153 (now known as D53 or F53, next to Red Rocket restaurant). Past that gate was the glass wall dividing the transborder gates from the domestic area. You could see the concourse area and the other gates,, however you were out of contact with life on the other side. Gate 153 was actually unused at the time, but the podium showed the next flight as going to Edmonton. Obviously, they would have had to move the glass barrier to close one side of the gate (between 153 and 155), and open the other side facing the other domestic gates. I would guess that with the new number/letter system, the gate would simply change from F53 to D53 to accomodate the domestic operation.

tribird1011 · Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:27 am

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 18):
T1 Gate 173 is the only one fully outfitted for the A380. There is room at 175 as well.

I'm sure I've seen the A380 parked at 175 before...

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