caliboy78
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:18 am

So far we know that AA will be getting rid of some routes, a/c and delaying the start of some seasonal routes. I would like talk about what you think AA will be acquring or getting rid off during BK. What are your thoughts?
TAAke pride on what you do and do it well.
 
thegreatRDU
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:36 am

Let's just hope RDU-LHR sticks around....
Our Returning Champion
 
caliboy78
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:43 am

I think all LHR routes are safe.
TAAke pride on what you do and do it well.
 
jfk777
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:13 pm

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 1):
Let's just hope RDU-LHR sticks around....

RDU - LHR lives by a Pharma firm contract in the Raleigh area, the day that gravy train ends so will the route.
 
EricR
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:12 am

To name a few........

ORD-FSD
ORD-FAR
LAX-PVG
DFW-CYS
DFW-LIR
 
caliboy78
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:17 am

LAX - PVG still active and I personally don't think that's going anywhere.
TAAke pride on what you do and do it well.
 
EricR
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:29 am

Quoting caliboy78 (Reply 5):

LAX - PVG still active and I personally don't think that's going anywhere.

Based on your question, I thought you were looking for routes that we thought AA would drop during the BK process.

I listed PVG-LAX because:
1.) The competition on the route (UA, AA, MU)
2.) The long stage length which requires multiple aircraft and thus added cost
3.) AA's high cost structure.

While I believe this route may come back after BK, I am going out on a limb and saying this route is probably not too profitable at the moment and runs the risk of being cut.

[Edited 2012-01-29 17:34:38]
 
caliboy78
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:39 am

I totally agree with you on this one.... I don't think PVG is too profitable at the moment.... I do think that if AA were to cut it that woudn't suprise me at all..... but based on AA schedule this route still active and remains active for a while
TAAke pride on what you do and do it well.
 
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ERJ170
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:48 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):

RDU - LHR lives by a Pharma firm contract in the Raleigh area, the day that gravy train ends so will the route.

Ugghhh.. I think everyone should look at it the other way.. AA is blessed to have that subsidy. Delta is working hard to pull it away. If they do, AA loses yet another profitable route.. I believe AA should be extremely happy to have the route and probably does a LOT to keep it compared to RTRP working as hard to keep AA on the flight..

Delta has a lot better route structure out of RDU so the LHR flight on DL would be exceptional. The connections out of LHR would not be as great but I believe ST connections would still probably make it pretty sweet for DL..
Aiming High and going far..
 
LAXdude1023
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:53 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 4):

I would scratch DFW-LIR. AA just upgraded it to 4x weekly.
It is what it is...
 
tommy767
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:55 am

Anything remaining from BOS. Also probably some more ORD-Europe.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
dw9115
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:30 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 4):
To name a few........

ORD-FSD
ORD-FAR


I don't think Sioux Falls is going anyplace at least on the Dallas front because it is doing well. Now Chicago I doubt will go anyplace either in Sioux Falls or Fago because both cities seem to want these routes and they seem to be willing to do whatever it takes to keep them even in a reduced role so I think it is safe to say American will be getting some of the citizens of Sioux Falls and Fargo's tax dollars and soon.
 
mogandoCI
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:06 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 6):
2.) The long stage length which requires multiple aircraft and thus added cost

There are only so many cities/route-pairs within 8 hour flying range of the mainland US ... long-haul and ultra long haul are necessary evils in today's competitive environment

Latest route adjustments at AA are concerning because they're actually cutting network connectivity and coverage instead of just eliminating redundancy and trimming fat ... one cannot run a complete international network out of MIA, JVs and nothing else
 
USAirALB
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:06 am

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 10):
Anything remaining from BOS.

I'm thinking BOS-CDG. Maybe some AE LAX routes.
E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/77W/319/320/321/333/343
 
qqflyboy
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:46 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 8):

Are you sure about that? DL secured the same subsidy for RDU-CDG over two years ago (maybe three by now) and has yet to start the route. AFAIK, AA has never dipped into the subsidy for RDU-LHR because the route has always been profitable on its own.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
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IrishAyes
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:56 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 8):
Delta is working hard to pull it away.

Yeah, RDUCDG has never materialized.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 10):


Anything remaining from BOS. Also probably some more ORD-Europe.

Hardly anything is left on ORD-Europe! Except for LHR, MAN, CDG and the seasonals (DUB, FCO and HEL) but I think those are safe.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 13):
Maybe some AE LAX routes.

Yup.

I wonder if DFWCCS will be dealt the axe....but it's a weekly flight and there are political considerations surrounding that decision.
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
LV
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:16 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 4):
ORD-FSD
ORD-FAR

With the Dakotas some of the best economic areas of the United States right now I would think these might be some of the better yielding domestic routes.
 
gigneil
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:04 am

Snort. Define best economic area.

NS
 
HPRamper
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:23 am

Quoting dw9115 (Reply 11):
I don't think Sioux Falls is going anyplace at least on the Dallas front because it is doing well. Now Chicago I doubt will go anyplace either in Sioux Falls or Fago because both cities seem to want these routes and they seem to be willing to do whatever it takes to keep them even in a reduced role so I think it is safe to say American will be getting some of the citizens of Sioux Falls and Fargo's tax dollars and soon.

I would not call AA from FAR to ORD safe. It's a fairly new route - not really something that has long-term commitments. If I recall AA only showed up when F9 left FAR. Right now AA competes with UA on FAR-ORD...it might be a better idea to cut that route and instead offer DFW-FAR. Right now I believe FAR only has service to MSP, ORD, DEN and SLC on network carriers and would gladly trade off some ORD frequencies to get something like DFW.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 17):
Snort. Define best economic area.

Low unemployment, state budget surpluses, booming industrial and population growth. The Dakotas, especially North Dakota, are economically healthy and North Dakota in particular was never much affected by the recession.
 
LV
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:30 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 18):
Low unemployment, state budget surpluses, booming industrial and population growth. The Dakotas, especially North Dakota, are economically healthy and North Dakota in particular was never much affected by the recession.

Thanks, that's pretty much what I was thinking.
 
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ERJ170
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:20 am

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 14):
Are you sure about that? DL secured the same subsidy for RDU-CDG over two years ago (maybe three by now) and has yet to start the route. AFAIK, AA has never dipped into the subsidy for RDU-LHR because the route has always been profitable on its own.

See AA. They threatened to pull the LHR flight if DL was given any subsidy for international routes. So RTRP had to pull it back to maintain the LHR service (as DL was not pursuing it at that time).

Although I don't think the AA hasn't touched the subsidy. Sometimes the planes goes out kinda light and there is no way a trans-atlantic plan can be profitable enough during the low season with 60% or less LF.. i'm just thinking.. maybe during the high season it doesn't need the subsidy but during low season (winter months, etc)...????
Aiming High and going far..
 
gigneil
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:39 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 18):
Low unemployment, state budget surpluses, booming industrial and population growth. The Dakotas, especially North Dakota, are economically healthy and North Dakota in particular was never much affected by the recession.

Sure. Its hard to have a recession in a place that had practically no economy to begin with.  

NS
 
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American 767
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:37 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 15):
Yeah, RDUCDG has never materialized.

Nope, it never did. But American did fly RDU-ORY back in the late 80s when RDU was a hub. They stopped flying ORY-RDU in the mid 90s (1994 or so) when the RDU hub was closed, this was five years before they started flying to CDG. I remember flying ORY-RDU on a 767-200ER, in 1988 when the 767 was brand new, connecting to MCO also on a 767. I remember also when RDU was 727 heaven.

Ben Soriano
Ben Soriano
 
LAXdude1023
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:43 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 21):
Its hard to have a recession in a place that had practically no economy to begin with.

Thats about to change. The oil traffic to North Dakota (particularly Williston) is going to explode in the coming months and years.
It is what it is...
 
lhcvg
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:19 am

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 12):
There are only so many cities/route-pairs within 8 hour flying range of the mainland US ... long-haul and ultra long haul are necessary evils in today's competitive environment

Latest route adjustments at AA are concerning because they're actually cutting network connectivity and coverage instead of just eliminating redundancy and trimming fat ... one cannot run a complete international network out of MIA, JVs and nothing else

Agree 100%. You can't fix things by merely cutting everything that's expensive to operate. There are some routes where you have to be a player for network reasons or to appease large contract holders. Obviously you have to be rational, but on the logic used for cutting LAX-PVG, every steakhouse and sushi bar would become a "casual American" joint because it's much lower cost.
 
LV
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:21 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 23):
Thats about to change. The oil traffic to North Dakota (particularly Williston) is going to explode in the coming months and years.

And that's why DL is sending a 319 to MOT now.
 
ripcordd
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:01 am

LAX PVG route if it is cut will not come back after BK.....They will stick it out for another 6-12 months until they secure reduce costs they would loose all their market momentum if they pulled out now and restarted it.
 
AS739BSI
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:04 am

Currently no one runs ORD-MOT and even if AA/AE wanted to get in the game, UA/UX would probably respond. I'm waiting to hear more about service expansion rumors at MOT with UA from IAH, G4 to daily from Vegas. DL mainline is confirmed. The only daily service out of MOT is to DEN and MSP. I am sure that someone will get into ORD. Would DFW be a possibility for AA to MOT?

[Edited 2012-01-30 21:10:50]
 
FreequentFlier
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:35 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 21):
Sure. Its hard to have a recession in a place that had practically no economy to begin with.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and obviously have not been paying attention to what has been going on in North Dakota for the past decade or so now.
 
caliboy78
Topic Author
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AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:59 am

I don't think LAX might suffer much from capacity reduction on the mainline side as much as AE. Not too long ago AA said that it was waiting for TBIT to finish construction to get those 4 gates and add some more capacity at LAX.
TAAke pride on what you do and do it well.
 
dw9115
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RE: AA Newly Acquired Or Cancelled Routes During Bankruptcy?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:25 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 21):
Sure. Its hard to have a recession in a place that had practically no economy to begin with.

It's hard to say at least Sioux Falls had no economy to begin with because 1. Wells Fargo's national charter for their bank is there as well as almost 5,000 employees 2. Citi has their national charter there also and almost 3,400 2. CapitolOne recently bought almost all of HSBC's credit card operations in North America and CapitolOne will have a presence of over 1,000 employees by year end and has announced the hiring of some 400 more 3. Poet the largest ethanol producer in North America has their HQ there 4. TCF Bank (top 20 bank in US) has moved their national charter there from Minneapolis and has recently opened a new operation with hundreds of jobs and the list goes on like First Premier Bank / Premier Bankcard HQ, Great Western Bank HQ, CorTrust Bank HQ, Sanford Healthcare HQ, Avera Healthcare HQ, Augustana College, University of Sioux Falls, Target National Bank HQ, MetaBank major operations, Esurance (an Allstate company) major operations, Daktronics major operations, Raven Industries HQ and there is plenty more to name and Sioux Falls had been in the top 10 best places to live in the US for the last 25 years straight. Oh and the airport broke its all-time high for passengers this year while others are still in a slump.

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