BD338
Topic Author
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Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:49 pm

Not looking good for Teesside Airport (Durham Tees Valley):

1) Decision in days to either extend sale period or place airport into Administration (effectively closure)
2) Peel not attending Tees Valley Partnership meetings
3) Peel not attending airport consultative meetings
4) Peel allegedly reneging on "promises"

Sadly, the future does not look bright.

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/arc...airport_owners_of_broken_promises/
 
DBCooper
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:51 am

RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:24 pm

Losing BD's LHR link has really hurt.

Losing meaningful rail service has also hurt. That is how I used to get to/from MME back when it was my hometown airport. It was *very* convenient.

I ended up switching to NCL (if I was connecting @ LHR) or taking the train to King's Cross if I had business there on my way to/from the USA or Asia.

I can't see much hope unless:
1. LHR link is restored (very unlikely)
2. Charter activity is focused on MME vs. NCL and other points in the NE (very unlikely)
3. It is easier to get to/from MME (have trains between Darlington and Saltburn stop at MME at key times)
4. The economy picks up in the NE (doesn't look good)

The name change from Teesside to Durham Tees Valley has not helped, either.

Sad.


- DBC
 
LGWflyer
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:17 pm

Hmm terrible news, I'd hate to see another British airport close. Plymouth airport only just closed over a month ago, I wonder how many more airports will shut down in the near future...?  
3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
 
ba319-131
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:23 pm

I feel thankful this airport is in my flown list, wish I'd managed Plymouth before that closed  

Given the location, the LHR link was vital, even if downgraded to the E145, loss of this route, IMO is akin to rot setting in.

Shame, was quick and easy to use.
111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
 
mainMAN
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:32 pm

With a population of about half a million, surely MME is an asset the Teeside area cannot afford to lose. The economy and aviation are very cyclical, after all.

The combined effect of losing LHR, rising ADP and £6 departure tax haven't helped......but surely from this size of market, AMS, ABZ, BHD, DUB, ALC, TFS, AGP, PMI and JER and ancillary activities should be able to guarantee a functioning airport? The money used in running it (assuming it isn't profitable) should be subject to a proper cost-benefit analysis for the wider Tees area. Direct access to AMS in particular is crucial.
 
SuperCaravelle
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:57 pm

Does anyone know how KL is doing on the route, load-wise? I don't know if there is a lot of general aviation activity, but a couple of months ago there were rumors that KL was going to stop the service (at the time they announced the Liverpool cut). I can imagine that to be the final blow to the airport, but those talks seem to have died down.

Local authorities should keep in mind that a service like that is the difference between being one stop away from the whole world and having to travel to Manchester (?), a non-hub airport (but with a convenient number of international destinations).
 
LJ
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:27 pm

Quoting SuperCaravelle (Reply 5):
Does anyone know how KL is doing on the route, load-wise?

According to a thread in on a Dutch website the AMS-MME market was 103,264 pax last year.

http://forum.scramble.nl/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=81584
 
gilesdavies
Posts: 2271
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:25 pm

I think this could be start of seeing a few UK airports closing, and is just a matter of time...

The only airlines that can really save them is the Low Cost Airlines like Ryanair, easyJet, Jet2, FlyBE and BMI Baby, but going by history this has not worked. I think it is the following factors:

1.
The LCC airlines demand low fees, and these small regional airports cannot afford to offer it to them.

2.
Airlines are against their passengers having to pay upfront ADF (Airport Development Fees) and the perception from passengers are they feel they shouldn't have to pay it.

3.
The aircraft the majority of the LCC airlines use, is the A320/737 family aircraft and these are simply to big to be used from these airports, from a standpoint of demand... Business routes to major cities, require multiple daily frequencies or atleast daily services and tourists going to the major Mediterranean sunshine hotspots, want more than just a single weekly frequency. But when routes are operated more frequently they simply cannot fill them.

I think other airports like Manston, Humberside, Blackpool, Bournemouth Newquay and possibly Norwich could all face the same prospect over the next few years to a decade!

Airports like Manston only see one passenger flight a day at the moment, with a single FlyBE route to EDI.

Other airports are reliant upon a single LCC to bring in all the traffic and can only fill these aircraft during the summer months. These small airports are going to be first to be cut if there is a change in the economic climate, fuel prices, etc... They may also have a route or two flown by prop or 50-100 seater jet, flown year round, but is questionable if these will make an airport sustainable.

FlyBE even struggled to make a single weekly E-195 service between HUY and PMI work!

Some of the aiports have a reasonable amount of chartered traffic like BOH, NWI and EXT. But this traffic is going to be vulnerable over time, as routes get consolidated to the larger more major airports, as the market continues to shrink. Thomas Cook's current woes just confirm this.
 
lhr380
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:29 pm

While it is sad to see the airport go, what use is it keeping it open? It only has a KL AMS flight and a Eastern ABZ flight as sched daily (If that) services. Tomorrow for example the airport has 5 flights all day! No ooubt it gets very busy in the summer with all the charter and holiday flights, but im sure NCL could cope with the bulk of that traffic?
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
LN-KGL
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:30 pm

On my list of UK airports/heliport with commercial flights in 2010 and 2011 I've given 2 airports the red colour, Plymouth and Penzance. Plymouth did in reality close down in July 2011 as the radar went out of service and travelers only were offered a bus connection to/from Newquay. Penzance is closing down in the last days of June 2012, and British International will continue from Newquay with their S-61s.

The second colour on my list is orange and 6 airports got this colour that mark a high probability for closure. Durham Tees has certainly got this colour together with Blackpool (the only of the six with positive growth fra 2010 to 2011), Oxford (Manx2 will try this summer, Baboo failed last time), Bournemouth, Dundee and Doncaster.

I have a third level marked with a light yellow colour and it's airports to watch closely. There may be many reasons to get on this light yellow watch list like closeness to other large airport with free capacity, growth may not materialize, dependency on one carrier, important maintenance facility may have to close, airport owner may have financial difficulties, operational problems due to limited space for growth and so on. The 10 airports I watch closely are: Norwich, Southend, Liverpool, Belfast City, Manston, Cloucestershire, Newquay, Prestwick, Cardiff and Humberside.

You may have noticed that non of the airports/airfields with PSO traffic is not on this list (with one exception). I consider these airports/airfields as fairly safe provided the government manage to fix the British economy. And listen politicians, Air Passenger Duty is NOT the correct measure - it only discourage dearly needed foreign tourists to travel to UK.
 
LGWflyer
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:38 pm

RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:34 pm

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 9):
Southend

I could see maybe Southend taking off with the news routes. I hope the new U2 base works well there with the new 9 routes starting in April.
3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
 
mainMAN
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:35 pm

Quoting SuperCaravelle (Reply 5):
Local authorities should keep in mind that a service like that is the difference between being one stop away from the whole world and having to travel to Manchester

The authorities know this, and it wouldn't surprise me if Peel and the 5 local councils which currently own 25% reached a deal to buy it back. I hope so!
 
LN-KGL
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:35 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 6):
According to a thread in on a Dutch website the AMS-MME market was 103,264 pax last year.

If that is correct, then 54 % of all passengers at MME fly with KLM - MME had according to UK CAA in 2011 190,284 passengers.
 
bennett123
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:37 pm

The KLM website shows 3 flights daily, and the F70 takes about 80 passengers.

Assuming flights on 350 days PA, that would give 168,000 seats or an LF of about 61%.

I know that my calc is hardly scientific, but that does not sound good.
 
SuperCaravelle
Posts: 261
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:04 pm

RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:43 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 6):
According to a thread in on a Dutch website the AMS-MME market was 103,264 pax last year.

http://forum.scramble.nl/viewtopic.p...81584

Thanks, and a really interesting link!

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 8):
While it is sad to see the airport go, what use is it keeping it open? It only has a KL AMS flight and a Eastern ABZ flight as sched daily (If that) services. Tomorrow for example the airport has 5 flights all day!

Actually KL flies to Teesside 3 times a day. Other than that, there is not much commercial traffic, but there might be some general aviation?

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 13):
The KLM website shows 3 flights daily, and the F70 takes about 80 passengers.

Assuming flights on 350 days PA, that would give 168,000 seats or an LF of about 61%.

I know that my calc is hardly scientific, but that does not sound good.

Well... I don't expect the O&D traffic Middlesbrough - Amsterdam being able to fill 200 seats a day, so the majority of those passengers will be connecting, also filling long-haul seats. I don't know the load levels on other regional services into Britain, or secondary cities in France / Nordic countries / Germany, but I suspect the main objective is not to fill those Cityhopper planes to the brim, but instead connect them to Tokyo or Rio de Janeiro or somewhere else far away.

[Edited 2012-01-29 14:47:32]
 
lhr380
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:47 pm

Quoting SuperCaravelle (Reply 14):
Actually KL flies to Teesside 3 times a day

I saw, as does Eastern, but is it in full operation on a weekend?
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
SuperCaravelle
Posts: 261
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:04 pm

RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:48 pm

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 15):
I saw, as does Eastern, but is it in full operation on a weekend?

According to their schedule, yes.
 
lhr380
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:53 pm

Quoting SuperCaravelle (Reply 16):
According to their schedule, yes.

If that is the case, is there a real need to keep the airport open when it only fully gets used for a month or 2 in the summer and winter, and the rest of the time just 6 flights a day when there is a major airport just up the road? By all means keep it GA but is there a need to a terminal and everything that goes with it?

Would these 6 services even provide the money needed to run the airport, staff, security immigration etc?
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:04 pm

Fingers crossed for Teeside, hopefully they will recognise that we are in a short term downturn and that long term the UK will need far more runway capacity than it has.

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 9):
Plymouth did in reality close down in July 2011 as the radar went out of service

Nope, 23rd December. The radar was out of service for August, as it has been since it was first set up since it's operated by the military who are not at work during August.

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 9):
Penzance is closing down in the last days of June 2012,

October now, they have extended the operation there.

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 8):
While it is sad to see the airport go, what use is it keeping it open?

Commercial traffic isn't the only income airports receive. To cite Plymouth as an example, it wasn't mothballed because it couldn't generate a profit; there is enough non airline traffic to run a successful operation there. However the operators didn't want to change the business model and had an escape clause where they could end their 150 year lease early and take a 25% cut on the sale of the land. Doesn't take a genius to work out what they tried to do there...


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
lhr380
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:14 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 18):
Commercial traffic isn't the only income airports receive.

So GA landing and take off costs as well as storage? Do the night cargo flights pay the airport a visit? What income does Durham get other then the small amount of commercial traffic and the GA traffic that warrants a terminal and all that comes with one?
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
LN-KGL
Posts: 817
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 1999 6:40 am

RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:16 pm

Quoting LGWflyer (Reply 10):
I could see maybe Southend taking off with the news routes. I hope the new U2 base works well there with the new 9 routes starting in April.

Reasons for being on the watch list: "growth may not materialize" and "dependency on one carrier".

I passed through MME last week of January 2010 - in from with Aberdeen in the afternoon, had perfect dinner at The Brasserie in Yarm, stayed the night at the St. George Hotel (across the parking from the terminal) and flew the next morning with the early Eastern Airways flight to SOU with a short stop at LBA to collect more passenger (we were only three out of MME that morning).

MME is only one of 36 airports in the UK I have flown to and/or from - seven more will be added the next three months (included Penzance that will close in June).
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:20 pm

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 19):
So GA landing and take off costs as well as storage? Do the night cargo flights pay the airport a visit? What income does Durham get other then the small amount of commercial traffic and the GA traffic that warrants a terminal and all that comes with one?

Talking about the terminal and the airport as a whole are two different things - you hadn't mentioned it was just the terminal you were referring to in the post I quoted, and I opened the page before you qualified it in post 17.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:22 pm

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 20):
MME is only one of 36 airports in the UK I have flown to and/or from - seven more will be added the next three months (included Penzance that will close in June).

October now - feel free to drop me a line if you are coming through Plymouth.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
LN-KGL
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:26 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 18):
Nope, 23rd December. The radar was out of service for August, as it has been since it was first set up since it's operated by the military who are not at work during August.

Wasn't the last scheduled Air Southwest flight out of Plymouth on 28 July then?

 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:40 pm

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 23):
Wasn't the last scheduled Air Southwest flight out of Plymouth on 28 July then?

Yes, I was the last passenger to get off the last Air Southwest flight into Plymouth, but the airfield remained active until the 23rd December. Because of Plymouth's peripheral location and its poor overland access the airport still saw frequent business charters and the normal high level of use by the MoD right up until it was mothballed - as you probably know Plymouth is home to the largest naval dockyard in Western Europe.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
LN-KGL
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:01 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 22):
October now - feel free to drop me a line if you are coming through Plymouth.

To be on the safe side we have scheduled our flights with Brintl the first days in April. On this trip Exeter, Land's End, St.Marys, Penzance, Tresco and Bournemouth will be new entries, but Amsterdam, Jersey, Southampton and Manchester too will (air)ports of call these five days. If you are a regular reader of the Airways Magazine you may have noticed our madness and seen articles about British and other European airports and airlines the past ten years. My friend is better than me with the pen while I prefer to man the cameras. You have to look out for the coming March edition of Airways - there are two interesting articles about Cardiff, one about the airport and one about BAMC.

Since we are passing Plymonth twice, it may well be that I'll drop you a line.

Here is a photo from BAMC that wasn't used in the article:
http://www.scanavphoto.no/_img/full_size/airliner/Airliner_KGL_013.jpg

[Edited 2012-01-29 16:10:43]
 
spud757
Posts: 149
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:20 pm

RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:56 am

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 7):

trouble is certain LCCs want to pay unsustainable fees to use these small regional airports. So the airports then rely on pax buying food, drinks and tax free goods in their terminal shops... Or they charge the pax an airport development fee which in effect is to subsidise the low charges paid to the airport by LCCs. So the pax is paying for what should be part of their ticket cost if the airline played fair on charges to the airport.

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 7):

Wouldn't put EXT in this list. As the HQ for BE with a good network it's safe as long as BE remain
 
nclmedic
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:05 am

This would indeed be a shame, but the writing's been on the wall for MME for some time now. It's certainly yet another blow for Teeside, but there are semi-decent transport links to the two other most local airports - NCL and LBA. The times where we can all expect an international airport on our doorsteps are well gone, unfortunately. Even NCL still struggles so what hope did MME have.
 
Humberside
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:53 pm

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 7):
I think this could be start of seeing a few UK airports closing, and is just a matter of time...

The only airlines that can really save them is the Low Cost Airlines like Ryanair, easyJet, Jet2, FlyBE and BMI Baby, but going by history this has not worked.

Your argument is focused purely on airline passenger traffic though. Airports have other income streams too, such as:
Offshore helicopter flights
Freight
General Aviation
Business Jets
Aircraft Maintenance
Business Parks

Passenger flights do not necessarily reflect an entire airport. Take HUY. Significant North Sea rig helicopter traffic, two based airlines (Eastern and Linksair), police helicopter base, general aviation, a weekly cargo flight and some biz jet activity. None of that alone pays all the bills, but put together is a significant part of the airport. And I bet Eastern would be wanting 7 figure compensation should HUY ever close considering the investment they have made in aircraft maintenance facilities and their purchase a few years ago off a Jetstream 41 flight simulator

Most of the above does not contribute towards running a passenger terminal, and isn't going to deliver significant amounts of growth. But equally it should not be ignored IMO

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 9):
Oxford (Manx2 will try this summer, Baboo failed last time),

Passenger flights are a very very small proportion of Oxford's activities. It's all about general aviation, business jets and pilot training there

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 7):
FlyBE even struggled to make a single weekly E-195 service between HUY and PMI work!

It was Malaga, and loads at least were great. Whether it was yields, or whether it was the cost of a w pattern, or whether Flybe had a better opportunity at their bases I'm not sure what was the reason for cancellation. But demand was not the issue

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 20):
Reasons for being on the watch list: "growth may not materialize" and "dependency on one carrier".

Remember SEN survived for a number of years with the only passenger flight being a Summer Saturday service to Jersey. It's got aircraft maintenance businesses and business jets as well, which sustained the airport for a number of years. Stobart will want to recover their investment, and if they don't things will become tough, but again SEN's past shows not to judge airports solely on passenger services

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 9):
Air Passenger Duty is NOT the correct measure - it only discourage dearly needed foreign tourists to travel to UK.

100% agreed
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
tcasalert
Posts: 448
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:23 pm

To be honest I think this is a sign of things to come, but I do think we need less airports in the UK. I mean lets be honest, within an hour of my home I have EMA, BHX, MAN, DSA, HUY and LBA. We are a small country and simply don't need this many airports dotted around the UK. So many airports only serve to do one thing - have less competition at each airport, and therefore far higher prices.

Take EMA-ABZ. T3 operate the route and charge over £200 return. Just 30 minutes up the road BE operate BHX-ABZ and charge around £80 return. It's the same with AMS. EMA-AMS is about £60 return on WW. An hour away at HUY, KL operate the flight at £200 return.

By reducing the number of airports we increase the competition at each point as airlines then have to compete in the same space - and prices will come down as a result.
Next flight: Feb 2012 - BHX-CPH-BHX - SK MD87 / CRJ900
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:57 pm

Quoting TCASAlert (Reply 29):
To be honest I think this is a sign of things to come, but I do think we need less airports in the UK. I mean lets be honest, within an hour of my home I have EMA, BHX, MAN, DSA, HUY and LBA. We are a small country and simply don't need this many airports dotted around the UK. So many airports only serve to do one thing - have less competition at each airport, and therefore far higher prices.

But we are currently in a pretty serious period of financial stagnation. In the long run the UK is going to need more runway capacity, not less. You will find traffic from the South East spilling into the Midlands and South West, and from the North West to the North East, and this is why;

Quoting TCASAlert (Reply 29):
Take EMA-ABZ. T3 operate the route and charge over £200 return. Just 30 minutes up the road BE operate BHX-ABZ and charge around £80 return. It's the same with AMS. EMA-AMS is about £60 return on WW. An hour away at HUY, KL operate the flight at £200 return.

People will travel for a cheaper flight; if it's £300 from Manchester but only £150 from Humberside then a lot of people will take the lower fare and drive the distance. By 2030 or 2050 runway capacity is going to be used up at many airports, so it's very likely that those nearer to larger population centers will be able to charge a quite hefty premium for the convenience. I know it's the long term view, but we all know how difficult airports and runways are to get built in the UK - we've got to hold on to the ones we have, even if they just 'tick over' for now, because they will be needed in the future.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
LN-KGL
Posts: 817
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 1999 6:40 am

RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:47 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 28):
Remember SEN survived for a number of years with the only passenger flight being a Summer Saturday service to Jersey.

I know, and we flew with BE1113 to Jersey on 15 August 2009 - and since we were the only foreigners on this flight we both picked out randomly for an extra security check - at least that was what we were told  

If we look at the 2011 passenger numbers for UK airports, the number of passengers per capita varies a lot between the different regions. Here is a list showing the per capita numbers for the Regions of England:
Greater London = 9.3
East of England = 5.2
South East England = 4.4
North West England = 3.5
North East England 1.8
West Midlands = 1.6
South West England = 1.5
East Midlands = 1.0
Yorkshire and the Humber = 0.8
England as a total = 3.7

As a comparison the same number for other parts of the UK are:
Scotland = 4.2 (Lothian = 11.2)
Northern Ireland = 4.1
Wales = 0.4

The islands not part of the UK:
Channel Islands = 14.6
Isle of Man = 8.3

The comparable number for my local airport, OSL, is identical with the Channel Islands number (14.6). For my home country (Norway) as a whole this number is 9.6 - a tiny bit better than Greater London its two airports Heathrow and London City.

Two English regions had a negative passenger growth in 2011, South West England with -3.4% and North East England with -1.0%. In other words it not without reason that one South West airport closed in 2011 and a Heliport scheduled to close in 2012.

That the decline continues last year at Durham Tees Valley is clearly one of the main reasons for the problematic situation at the airport. The passenger numbers are now only 20% of the peak level of 2006. Interesting is that Peel haven't updated their web site since early 2009 and have this message: "Durham Tees Valley Airport handles almost 700,000 passengers a year." In 2011 only 190,284 passengers flew through MME. A further question: How is business these days at Serco iftc, Weston, CAMAir, Durham Tees Flight Training and St George Flight Training? I don't see much hope for MME as an airport with scheduled flights.  
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:30 am

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 31):
In other words it not without reason that one South West airport closed in 2011 and a Heliport scheduled to close in 2012.

I have to disagree there, the situation is not as simple as that for either. Plymouth did not close due to a lack of business or traffic, it closed because the company running it wanted to achieve 'best value' from the land, in other words they thought they could close the airport and develop it. It's a complicated situation and a public forum is not the place to explain it. Penzance heliport was sold to supermarket chain Sainsbury's once the site for a new heliport had been located, these plans then stalled repeatedly in the planning process so until an alternative site can be found the helicopters will operate from Newquay instead.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
LN-KGL
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Joined: Sun Sep 12, 1999 6:40 am

RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:57 pm

I didn't say that the decline in passengers at PLH was the only reason for its closure. It was indeed a more complicated situation. Wasn't there a former Argyle manager involved? Why did Sutton Habour former CEO Godefroy go? What did Eastern Airways get out of the Air Southwest deal? What is happening is the next episode of ... it is almost like a soap opera.

But there are issues that is more understandable from an operation point of view. An airport with only a 1,200 metre long runway and no possibility to lengthening it because it is boxed in. This limit the commercial value of an airport. And then there was this issue with low visibility, the dependency on a Royal Navy radar and defence cut backs.

I have tried the bus ride both ways between NQY and PLH the first days of September 2011. I spoke with the wonderful employees at the airport. They had tears in their eyes when we talked about the future without PLH.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Teesside Airport Could Close

Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:33 pm

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 33):
But there are issues that is more understandable from an operation point of view. An airport with only a 1,200 metre long runway and no possibility to lengthening it because it is boxed in.

Plenty of possibility actually. Plans were drawn up for the extension in the last masterplan, IIRC planning permission was applied for and given, local residents were only keen to have night engine testing stopped, which is understandable. The land required is still designated for this purpose and available, most of it is already owned - all of it for the first phases. The operating company was essentially given £15 million of public money to cover all the first phases of expansion and extension, this came from selling land which was a public asset. Now the situation is that the airport has been mothballed, very very little was done improve it beforehand, and the £15 million has mysteriously disappeared in dubious directions. Apparently building roads to a housing estate is classed as improving the airport, according to Sutton Harbour...

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 33):
This limit the commercial value of an airport.

For commercial flights yes, we both know that, Sutton Harbour knew that. However the airport was not reliant on commercial flights - you can compare it to realising you haven't got any eggs to make an omelette but, instead of using the food you have got, you chose to starve to death instead.

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 33):
Wasn't there a former Argyle manager involved?

Indirectly yes, one of the former owners of Argyle is a director of a company with a major interest in Sutton Harbour.

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 33):
Why did Sutton Habour former CEO Godefroy go?

I get the feeling he is asking that question as well...

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 33):
What did Eastern Airways get out of the Air Southwest deal?

Three owned aircraft, four pairs of LGW slots, and several million pounds. Nice work if you can get it!

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 33):
I have tried the bus ride both ways between NQY and PLH the first days of September 2011.

That was temporary, it will now take you a lot, lot longer. Last time I traveled to NQY by public transport it took me over 5 hours, it's over an hour even by car.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...