sam1987
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New BA Routes 2012

Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:45 pm

I see BA have updated the following new routes page, which lists the route changes for summer 2012:

http://www.britishairways.com/travel/new-routes/public/en_gb

Where do we think BA's new routes will be in winter 2012? If the BD acquisition goes ahead, which routes do we think IAG will keep/drop?
Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:07 pm

Quoting sam1987 (Thread starter):
I see BA have updated the following new routes page, which lists the route changes for summer 2012:

http://www.britishairways.com/travel/new-routes/public/en_gb

Where do we think BA's new routes will be in winter 2012? If the BD acquisition goes ahead, which routes do we think IAG will keep/drop?

I think that page gives some clues. BA has used the slots it has already acquired for a relatively modest expansion, with long haul expansion reserved for extra flights on existing routes to HKG, JFK, JNB and MIA with no new long haul routes. And previous long haul expansion was an extra flight to Tokyo (serving Haneda) and EZE direct (previously a tag on from GRU.)
 
1stfl94
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:25 pm

I doubt BA will say anything concrete until the BD purchase has gone through. Also, when they first get BD, they will have slots and a mostly A32X fleet so it will take a bit of time before more long haul routes and frequencies can be launched. I'm not sure if IAG will keep many of the BD routes, BA had first refusal on BMED and IB serves quite a few of the Middle Eastern routes which aren't massively high demand (although can be quite lucrative), The Moroccan routes might however stay as BD has gone quite quickly to three routes but the rest of the European routes (what's left of them) are pretty much covered by BA already.

Might BA keep the FNA route, could work a 767, same with ATQ given BA's coverage in India.
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:51 pm

The biggest surprise for me is to see ALG switch to LGW. I thought it was an oil destination and may be high yielding...
With BMI coming along, we might see a consolidation of North African destinations at LHR. Some ex BMED routes will stay for sure like GYD, BEY, FRU, ADD & KRT. BA said that it wants to focus on Africa. Not sure about the others ex CIS destinations.
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YVRLTN
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:38 am

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 3):
Not sure about the others ex CIS destinations.

They would be foolish not to keep most of them for the growing O&G market, particularly with the ABZ connection and huge transatlantic presence - just handling the biz to LH & KL otherwise.
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SR4ever
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:24 am

Any idea when the last BD flight as a Star Alliance member is scheduled? I'd like to go to Jordan between Xmas and NYE this year, and BRU-LHR-AMM with BD sounds tempting, both in terms of product in J and price (EUR 1,200 rtn).
 
FCAFLYBOY
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:55 am

Not exactly new in terms of routes, but I definately see BA adding frequency
to MLE - perhaps daily or more possibly 5 x weekly first. The premium loads have been great and will only grow as UL ceases LHR-MLE direct.

I would also not be suprised to see BA announce LGW-CMB/SEZ also. HM Have stopped LHR-SEZ and there is certainly enough premium traffic to fill a 777.

Personally I'd live to see LHR-KUL with a DPS tag
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:05 am

Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 6):
Not exactly new in terms of routes, but I definately see BA adding frequency
to MLE - perhaps daily or more possibly 5 x weekly first. The premium loads have been great and will only grow as UL ceases LHR-MLE direct.
Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 6):
I would also not be suprised to see BA announce LGW-CMB/SEZ also. HM Have stopped LHR-SEZ and there is certainly enough premium traffic to fill a 777.

Not likely. Certainly enough premium traffic? Questionable really, especially at a premium fare.

Frankly, I just can't see it. Theres other more important priorities around than what are essentially leisure routes.

Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 6):
Personally I'd live to see LHR-KUL with a DPS tag

Maybe KUL, with MH joining OW, but a DPS tag-on? Hardly a high yield option. Might as well funnel that traffic through their new OW partner.

[Edited 2012-01-31 00:05:57]
 
nclmedic
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:13 am

All chatter I know, but BA has previously lamented that it does not have a big enough presence in Asia, especially when compared to the likes of AF/KL and LH.

ICN, CAN or KIX?
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:14 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 7):
Maybe KUL, with MH joining OW, but a DPS tag-on? Hardly a high yield option. Might as well funnel that traffic through their new OW partner.

I suppose that could be a candidate for LGW with DPS being a huge tourist destination. Maybe even make it something like LGW-HKT-DPS
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usdcaguy
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:07 am

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 3):
The biggest surprise for me is to see ALG switch to LGW. I thought it was an oil destination and may be high yielding...

Actually, ALG is not all that important in terms of oil business. I believe only Anadarko, Total and perhaps a few other firms have operations in Algeria, while there has historically been more business around TIP. For that reason, ALG is more of a VFR destination and is not a huge business destination, so switching to LGW is likely a better use of slots for BA.

Meanwhile, is it possible that the LHR to JFK/MIA frequency increases are just seasonal changes?
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:14 am

Quoting nclmedic (Reply 8):
All chatter I know, but BA has previously lamented that it does not have a big enough presence in Asia, especially when compared to the likes of AF/KL and LH.

Both those carriers still have an interesting relationship with Asia, and have found the experience tough at times. BA has been conseravtive, but it still brings results. BA is more targeted in its approach in that regard, playing less risks but that can be a bad move also.

Asia is a growing market, but its a complex one and takes lots of hard work to get many routes to work.

As for DPS, its a long way for BA to fly, with limited high yield opportunities. It would be far wiser to use the services of MH to develop such links, possibly by commencing a KUL service of its own at some point (Further linking with QF also if they move soe SIN services across). I can't see BA chasing markets like those on its own, but will likely just stick to the bigger markets, with a broader passenger mix to try and profit from.
 
edina
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:21 am

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 3):
The biggest surprise for me is to see ALG switch to LGW. I thought it was an oil destination and may be high yielding...

There are a few pax connecting on to oild destinations within Algeria, but on every LHR-ALG flight I have worked Algerian passengers have formed the majority on board, formiing a minimum of 80% (rising to 90-95% during holiday periods). Even this traffic is mostly O&D with very few connections.

I'll miss the route as I have found ALG passengers some of the most pleasant & friendly on the shorthaul BA network.

The short lived LGW-Hassi Messaoud route was started to serve the oil market, but this market has long been dominated by JetAir private charters (currently operated by Monarch, but have been operated by other charter airlines e.g. Sabre & Excel).

http://www.jetair.co.uk/algeria-flights
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raffik
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:49 am

I've been told by a few people who work for BA that BMI could possibly stay as a separate entity , shaving off some unprofitable destinations to free up slots for BA.
I am not sure how this will actually work out - surely easier to market flights through BA.

I would imagine some of the more important destinations will remain - BEY for sure which is almost always full and has been operating two A321s a day since last year. Perhaps combine this with a single 767 service or something, not sure
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imag
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:50 am

The additional JNB flight (BA033/034) is on a 777 with the return flight being a day time flight back to LHR. It'll be interesting to see how this goes as traditionally people have been against day time flights between Europe and SA. I know KLM does it though and BA's additional Cape Town summer flight is day time back to LHR.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:03 am

^^ Interesting they are flying a daytime flight on that one. Good experiment to try.

Quoting raffik (Reply 13):
I've been told by a few people who work for BA that BMI could possibly stay as a separate entity , shaving off some unprofitable destinations to free up slots for BA.

Not really sure there is much value left in keeping the brand. The purchase would appear to be far more valuable for slots and slots alone.

A few extra destinations maybe would be a bonus for them, but keeping the brand would likely only make ops more complex.
 
HUYfan
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:33 am

BA want to serve Kilimanjaro, but cannot under current agreements with the crew union. Something to do with operating a triangle route and numberof sectors in a duty. They would also jump on Durban, but they don't want to dilute Comair's feed from JNB. If bmi do come across, FNA will stay.

Kind regards

Mike
 
speedbird0125
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:39 am

Maybe ICN? I hear that BA is considering ICN as top cities to launch. I'm not sure if it's true or not, but I hope to see BA at ICN.
 
edina
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:52 am

Quoting HUYfan (Reply 16):
but cannot under current agreements with the crew union.

Possibly.......on the flight crew side.

It's doable on the cabin crew side & even if it wasn't with current cabin crew BA would just used the new, cheap non union crew.
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vv701
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:28 pm

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 15):
The purchase would appear to be far more valuable for slots and slots alone.

I think that the problem is suddenly gaining over 700 LHR weekly slots.

To illustrate the problem, to use all of these slots on long haul flights would require a fleet of between 50 and 60 long haul aircraft. Currently the available BA long haul fleet numbers 120 aircraft (55 744s, 46 772s, 14 763s and 5 77Ws) of which 117 are active and three are parked up.. So if all the BD slots were to be used for long haul flights - which is unlikely - BA would need to increase the size of its long haul fleet by up to 50 per cent.

If using the BD slots for BA long haul operations is a prime reason for purchasing BD - which is a not unreasonable assumption - expanding long haul operations by 50 per cent over a short period of time is operationally highly improbable. So many of BD's flights are likely to continue into the medium term future with eventual closure likely for a significant proportion. With eventual closure likely, continuing to operate them as BD flights is commercially a better option than making them BA flights and then discontinuing them.

If the above happens the logical thing is to retain the BD brand and gradually reduce the size of its operations as slots are transferred to BA in a measured way. The first slots to be transferred are likely to be on routes like LHR-EDI. As an example an early casualty could be BD050 LHR-EDI. It departs LHR at 06:55 just 15 minutes after BA's 06:40 A320 flight. Consolidating these flights onto a A321 or B763 is an obvious option. And there are other examples where BD currently operate a flight on this route within minutes of a BA flight.

This would give IAG time not only to confirm whether routes to destinations such as BEY and FNA are actually viable. If any are not currently viable this measured approach would show whether the higher level of oneworld (as opposed to Star) feed at LHR would make a significant difference to viability.
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:54 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 19):
The first slots to be transferred are likely to be on routes like LHR-EDI. As an example an early casualty could be BD050 LHR-EDI. It departs LHR at 06:55 just 15 minutes after BA's 06:40 A320 flight. Consolidating these flights onto a A321 or B763 is an obvious option. And there are other examples where BD currently operate a flight on this route within minutes of a BA flight.

For these flights, BA would need to find a replacement such increing flights to WAW or STR that have lost the red eyes or
add new shorthaul routes (JER, MRS, AGP, ... ) before expanding long haul.
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RWA380
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:01 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 19):
As an example an early casualty could be BD050 LHR-EDI. It departs LHR at 06:55 just 15 minutes after BA's 06:40 A320 flight. Consolidating these flights onto a A321 or B763 is an obvious option. And there are other examples where BD currently operate a flight on this route within minutes of a BA flight.

I think this is what will happen as it is how most aqusitions and mergers usually go, if BA goes this way, I'd expect you'll see their 767's making more Inter Europe flights, and additional slots for further increased frequencies or new destinations.
As stated above I do think KUL & ICN would both be viable routes for BA, for the reasons stated above.

If BA could find a way to make JRO work it sure would be a decent yielding route, although not front heavy, the demand is there and KL is the only other game in town. Routing AMS-JRO-DAR-AMS, the crews overnight in DAR, flights are always full during the mountain climbing season. Don't know if Condor runs a weekly flight to JRO or not any more.
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LAXorLGWonDL
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:56 pm

If BA has extra slots because of the acquisition, couldn't they allow OW partners to use any available slots? AA or others could then, possibly, aid in supporting increased frequencies...pending equipment/personnel availabiilty, of course.
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vv701
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:53 pm

BA will also be restarting an LHR-TIP three-times-weekly service on 1 May:

http://press.ba.com/?p=2111
 
nclmedic
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:08 pm

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 15):
Not really sure there is much value left in keeping the brand. The purchase would appear to be far more valuable for slots and slots alone.

A few extra destinations maybe would be a bonus for them, but keeping the brand would likely only make ops more complex.

In regard to this, and on a slight side-note, if BA does end up dissolving the BD brand and absorbing that which is profitable, where is it all going to go? T5 is basically full and it would completely defeat the point of it's LHR hub by operating out of not 1, not 2 but 3 terminals?
 
mikey72
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:14 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 21):
If BA could find a way to make JRO work it sure would be a decent yielding route, although not front heavy


BA don't get out of bed for back heavy !

Quoting VV701 (Reply 19):
If the above happens the logical thing is to retain the BD brand and gradually reduce the size of its operations as slots are transferred to BA in a measured way.

Are they likely to pull some of the long-haul routes from LGW ?

BGI, KIN, BDA spring to mind....?

On a purely personal note...be nice to see JER back.
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
eastern023
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:21 pm

I was hoping for LIM or/and SCL as an annoucement.
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airjamaica
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:19 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 25):
Are they likely to pull some of the long-haul routes from LGW ?

BGI, KIN, BDA spring to mind....?

Pull in terms of a switch over to LHR or as in axe ? By April BA will be the only carrier flying nonstop between London and Kingston as VS will axe LGW-KIN and retain LGW-MBJ. Likewise BA will ( once again ) axe LGW-MBJ and retain LGW-KIN increasing that frequency from 2x weekly to 3x. Doubt they will pull KIN any time soon. BGI from what I read does well for them. Not sure about BDA's performance over the years though.
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mikey72
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:23 pm

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 27):
Pull in terms of a switch over to LHR or as in axe ? By April BA will be the only carrier flying nonstop between London and Kingston as VS will axe LGW-KIN and retain LGW-MBJ. Likewise BA will ( once again ) axe LGW-MBJ and retain LGW-KIN increasing that frequency from 2x weekly to 3x. Doubt they will pull KIN any time soon. BGI from what I read does well for them. Not sure about BDA's performance over the years though.

No, transfer to keep a few BMI slots warm and maybe sex up the loads.

As if they'd axe Barbados, Jamiaca and Bermuda.

Just meant that those 3 could work well at LHR ?

[Edited 2012-01-31 11:27:49]
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
airjamaica
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:53 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 28):
Just meant that those 3 could work well at LHR ?

They should be able to IMO. I remember in the '80's most ( if not all ) of their Caribbean operations were done from LHR as opposed to LGW. Will be interesting to see if they will ultimately switch back some of them ( like the ones you mentioned ) to LHR.
greenheart
 
HUYfan
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:20 pm

The problem with JRO is that it would be on the 767, which mixed fleet do not operate.

Kind regards

Mike
 
Viscount724
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:00 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 19):
If using the BD slots for BA long haul operations is a prime reason for purchasing BD - which is a not unreasonable assumption - expanding long haul operations by 50 per cent over a short period of time is operationally highly improbable

With quite a few carriers cutting back on capacity due to the economic situation there should be a fair number of widebodies available for lease which BA might consider if they're anxious to use some of ex-BD slots for new longhaul services.
 
Sketty222
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:01 am

Quoting nclmedic (Reply 8):
All chatter I know, but BA has previously lamented that it does not have a big enough presence in Asia, especially when compared to the likes of AF/KL and LH.

ICN, CAN or KIX?
Quoting speedbird0125 (Reply 17):
Maybe ICN? I hear that BA is considering ICN as top cities to launch. I'm not sure if it's true or not, but I hope to see BA at ICN.

ICN is something that I have heard a lot of rumours about and would fit well with the rest of the OW options available to the Far East. KIX is another one that has been mentioned internally but as a rumour only.
I'm looking forward to the BD take-over to see how these slots are used.

Would the competition laws be looked at differently if IAG kept BD as a seperate airline operating alongside BA opposed to BD being merged/dissolved into the BA brand?
There's flying and then there's flying
 
RAGAZZO777
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:21 am

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 26):
I was hoping for LIM or/and SCL as an annoucement.

Same here, but if BA will not operate these routes, then LAN will take care of them with the 787. SCL definitely needs more flights to Europe.
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RWA380
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:13 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 25):
BA don't get out of bed for back heavy !
Quoting HUYfan (Reply 30):
The problem with JRO is that it would be on the 767, which mixed fleet do not operate.

BA has some long haul leisure routes, that are not real front heavy. beleive me, there is some premium traffic for JRO, I have sold tons of tickets from the US to JRO doing air travel for a large mountain climbing company based here in the US, and even the least expensive bulk ticket from the east coast was over $1500, most Y tickets varied from that low point up to $2300 during high season, the best months to climb Kilimanjaro.

As far as the 767, yes it would be the best aircraft for the route, it is too bad mixed crews don't operate it, KL has been operating to JRO with no real competition for years, with 767's and M11's often times sold out with lots of US connecting passengers. KL & KQ also have a good marketing agreement allowing some passengers to route via NBO, but often times the connection times are not real attractive.

If not BA, another european carrier with good US feed should consider JRO, it's a money maker, even if fares came down a bit with decent competition. For example fares to JRO are usually 300 or more dollars than fares into NBO.
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sam1987
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:33 pm

BA Cityflyer have recently announced three new summer seasonal routes - Mahon, Quimper and Angers.
Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:45 pm

Quoting sam1987 (Reply 35):
BA Cityflyer have recently announced three new summer seasonal routes - Mahon, Quimper and Angers.

Nice addition to LCY but these remain niche market routes...

but what happened to the plan of expanding LGW. In the series, "Inside Gatwick", BA had appointed a manager for LGW and her mission was to expand operations there and compete with easyJet. So far, we haven't seen much of it except Nice and Marrakesh. Algiers is transferred from LHR and all other short hauls are being reduced or axed: FAO, FCO, BRI, CAG...
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signol
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:18 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 10):
Actually, ALG is not all that important in terms of oil business. I believe only Anadarko, Total and perhaps a few other firms have operations in Algeria

Um, and BP. They have a big operation, I have a friend that flew there frequently on business.

Quoting HUYfan (Reply 16):
They would also jump on Durban, but they don't want to dilute Comair's feed from JNB

I'm led to believe the reverse is true. DUR is more a VFR destination, not much high yield up front. Comair wanted to operate 3x weekly to LGW as part of their BA franchise, but BA themselves didn't want to dilute the feed from their JNB operation. However, since Novak left Comair, the LGW idea has fizzled out.

signol
Flights booked: NWI-AMS-JNB-DUR, JNB-AMS-NWI
 
APYu
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:56 pm

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 36):
but what happened to the plan of expanding LGW. In the series, "Inside Gatwick", BA had appointed a manager for LGW and her mission was to expand operations there and compete with easyJet. So far, we haven't seen much of it except Nice and Marrakesh. Algiers is transferred from LHR and all other short hauls are being reduced or axed: FAO, FCO, BRI, CAG...

She's still trying to get her business case approved for the investment that would require.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
flycro
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:14 pm

What routes could be launched from LGW then by this new manager?
 
alasdair1982
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:25 pm

Well, if they're opening up niche markets from LCY. How about INV?
 
skipness1E
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:32 pm

I think it unlikely there is a need to expand loss making LGW short haul, I mean, why would you. I don't believe it has done, or is likely to, make any money. Long haul works well, but those routes are not dependent on feed.

We might see LHR-INV return with the BMI slots, however BA happily gave LGW-INV to flybe so I doubt a LCY launch.
 
by738
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:39 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 41):
Long haul works well, but those routes are not dependent on feed

Mmm not sure that is strictly true. Thats one of the main reason the BA operated LGW from Scotland have survived and infact have increased.
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:40 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 41):
I think it unlikely there is a need to expand loss making LGW short haul, I mean, why would you. I don't believe it has done, or is likely to, make any money. Long haul works well, but those routes are not dependent on feed.

That's not what the BA's LGW Manager was thinking. She clearly stated that she wants to expand LGW operations... I am sure some routes can sustain both BA and U2 services.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 41):
We might see LHR-INV return with the BMI slots, however BA happily gave LGW-INV to flybe so I doubt a LCY launch.

I think from domestics, we will only see BHD kept and may be JER moving some services to LHR.
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
sam1987
Topic Author
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:27 pm

RE: New BA Routes 2012

Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:12 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 41):
I don't believe it has done, or is likely to, make any money.

I believe GB Airways made money in its latter days.

So that proves that BA shorthaul from LGW can make money... perhaps they should look at the GB Airways business model and see what can be learnt:

- Fuel efficient modern fleet (A320s and A321s)
- Crew on different contracts, similar to the charters I believe
- Higher aircraft utilisation
- Longer average sector length with year round demand (eg: SSH, TFS)
- Outsourced engineering (and ground handling too?)
Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3368
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:49 pm

GB Airways was not BA, did not have BA's cost base or accounting procedures so any comaparison isn't really on a like for like. I know long haul is fed by the domestics, I also know the loss of the night stopper at MAN means one cannot connect as well to long haul out of MAN anymore. Only the first Southbound domestics feed long haul as most of the B777s are gone by lunchtime.

As to the head of LGW saying she wants tp expand, of course she does. She wants more routes and aircraft in her control, like any manager. However the lack of any convincing business case to replace the B734s is obvious. Justify to the business why you spent millions on equipment to continue in markets where you cannot and never have made consistent profits. Cost base at LGW is as low as it gets without TUPEing the groun staff out to a handler.

Sam I see what you think but let me translate that for you. "Lets rip up all our union agreements and make our staff work harder for less." They've already brought Mixed Fleet at LHR down ro LGW levels. How much cheaper would you make LGW now? BA are not easyJet or even Monarch.
 
LX138
Posts: 276
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RE: New BA Routes 2012

Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:50 am

Quoting signol (Reply 37):

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 10):
Actually, ALG is not all that important in terms of oil business. I believe only Anadarko, Total and perhaps a few other firms have operations in Algeria

Um, and BP. They have a big operation, I have a friend that flew there frequently on business.

Quoting HUYfan (Reply 16):
They would also jump on Durban, but they don't want to dilute Comair's feed from JNB

I'm led to believe the reverse is true. DUR is more a VFR destination, not much high yield up front. Comair wanted to operate 3x weekly to LGW as part of their BA franchise, but BA themselves didn't want to dilute the feed from their JNB operation. However, since Novak left Comair, the LGW idea has fizzled out.

ALG is a route that does well for business traffic. Several oil firms use that service. There's also no lo-co competition so the fares are high. I believe the UK-South Africa bilateral is already maxed out by the UK carriers, so DUR cannot be operated as it stands by a UK carrier without some rejigging.

Quoting sam1987 (Reply 44):
I believe GB Airways made money in its latter days.

So that proves that BA shorthaul from LGW can make money... perhaps they should look at the GB Airways business model and see what can be learnt:

- Fuel efficient modern fleet (A320s and A321s)
- Crew on different contracts, similar to the charters I believe
- Higher aircraft utilisation
- Longer average sector length with year round demand (eg: SSH, TFS)
- Outsourced engineering (and ground handling too?)

BA operate a different business model and strategy though that does not lend itself well to all of the above. But they do operate a fairly modern feel of A32S's (as above), are working on staff contracts all the time and have increased utilisation in recent years. BA makes most of it's money on the longer sectors at the moment too and regarding engineering - that's been mostly inhouse due to the complexity of the fleet and size. The critical mass of people employed has meant BA are now trying to market the engineering offering as a service to other airlines.
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vv701
Posts: 5773
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: New BA Routes 2012

Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:52 pm

Quoting sam1987 (Reply 44):
Outsourced engineering (and ground handling too?)

The only public comment by BA ,management on the future of its maintenance operations in relatively recent years was, I believe, at an investors' presentation prior to and about the advantages of forming IAG. One claimed advantage was that BA could learn from IB on the commercialisation of its engineering operations to third parties.

Since that presentation BA has effectively expanded its in-house engineering operations by opening a new single-aisle Airbus maintenance facility at PIK. Previously it used to take its single-aisle Airbus aircraft out of service at GLA for maintenance. Now it takes some (all?) of these aircraft out of service at LHR and ferries them to PIK. The last such movements were on 8 February. On that date 320 G-EUUO was ferried back to LHR after spending 12 days at PIK while 319 G-EUPX positioned to PIK to replace it in the maintenance hangar.

So it looks as if the direction chosen by IAG is more towards than away from the LH model with their Lufthansa Technik operations.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3368
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: New BA Routes 2012

Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:23 pm

They still use GLA for A320 series maintenance I think? Isn't PIK just rented hangar space for unexpected wing crack repairs?
 
vv701
Posts: 5773
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: New BA Routes 2012

Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:50 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 48):
Isn't PIK just rented hangar space for unexpected wing crack repairs?

Could be. All I know is that since 23 December when 319 G-EUPO was ferried to LHR from GLA after maintenance the following positioning flights have been made:

23 Dec. G-EUOH: LHR-PIK

12 Jan. G--EUUB: PIK-LHR: G-EUUD: LHR-PIK

20 Jan. G-EUUC: PIK-LHR: G-EUOH: LHR-PIK

26 Jan. G-EUUD: PIK-LHR: G-EUUO: LHR-PIK

2 Feb. G-EUUC: PIK-LHR: G-EUXJ: LHR-PIK

8 Feb. G-EUUO: PIK-LHR: G-EUPZ: LHR-PIK

So most of the time for the last seven weeks BA has had two A32X series aircraft at PIK undergoing some form of maintenance be it unexpected wing crack repairs or scheduled heavy maintenance. Does anyone else know?.

Source for the dataon positioning flights is:

http://thebasource.com/