atlasair
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Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:23 am

Rumor is the 135's are coming back. Rumor is five.
 
mhkansan
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Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:44 am

I wonder if these will be used for long and thin routes like AA uses them for LGA-XNA or if they'll be used to start small markets like ORD-RHI? Or DEN-MHK!?
 
NW747-400
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Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:56 am

This is not a rumor. It is a confirmed fact. Sounds like they will be used in DEN. I think someone mentioned it will be used on the PIA-DEN segment.
 
kcrwflyer
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Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:18 am

I can't make my brain come up with a way this makes any financial sense.
 
oflanigan
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Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:05 am

How many turboprops presently in DEN? 5 E135's seem right or maybe more?
 
thegoldenargosy
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Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:28 am

Are these the ones coming back from their lease to Chautauqua?
 
masseybrown
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Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:40 am

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 3):
I can't make my brain come up with a way this makes any financial sense.

Cumulative fare increases must have made the 135s viable again.
 
TWA902fly
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Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:50 am

DEN-ISN anyone? Probably one of the few super thin markets that can warrant that type of plane and ask for high enough fares to make it profitable?

'902
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atcsundevil
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Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:34 am

Glad to see some of those birds won't be stuck in IGM anymore. When was the last time they flew? It seems like its been several years now...I was worried they'd never fly again and just be parted out. Would they be replacing some of the turboprop flights or just to reduce capacity on CRJ2/E145 routes? Does anyone think they'll bring back more than just a handful or is this purely to serve a specific purpose on a limited basis?
 
kinglobjaw
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Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:04 pm

GFK! Please! Either ORD or DEN!
Kinglobjaw
 
loggat
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Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:29 pm

Don't forget that through the merger UAL is now the owner/lesee of the E135s that are sitting in the desert. Whereas Chautauqua couldn't make them work at Frontier, RAH had the option of disposing of them and not paying out any money. UAL does not have that luxury as they are on the hook for the planes whether they are in the desert or bringing in some unit revenue. I imagine they will still be deployed on the most cost beneficial legs, which should be short sectors.
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KLASM83
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Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:58 pm

Quoting kinglobjaw (Reply 9):
GFK! Please! Either ORD or DEN!

Scruffy seconds. Although, one would think that a 50 seat-jet could satiate at least one DEN and ORD flight from the Grand Forks (Knives and Spoons).
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NW747-400
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Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:00 pm

Quoting loggat (Reply 10):
Don't forget that through the merger UAL is now the owner/lesee of the E135s that are sitting in the desert. Whereas Chautauqua couldn't make them work at Frontier, RAH had the option of disposing of them and not paying out any money. UAL does not have that luxury as they are on the hook for the planes whether they are in the desert or bringing in some unit revenue. I imagine they will still be deployed on the most cost beneficial legs, which should be short sectors.

I also wonder if UA was able to negotiate a significantly lower lease rate in response to so many small jets being parked. A significant reduction in lease rate could more than offset the high operating costs.
 
xjet
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Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:25 pm

These aircraft will be based in EWR. It seems counter intuitive to place smaller aircraft there, but some rumors suggest that the Dash 8-200s are moving around the system. So maybe they are moving in to replace some of the small prop lift. What routes they will be flying is anyone's guess. We just know that the pilots are in EWR and the planes will begin flying in April.
 
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iahcsr
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Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:31 pm

I've heard it said that there will many more back in service by end of the year..
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sldispatcher
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Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:09 pm

Simple for me, in today's high fare environments, there are markets where 135's, if used on a relatively short segment, are still profitable...my local airport consistently has lowest advanced purchase fares in the 25 cpm and above range.

I'm also guessing that UA is looking at fleet simplification...either SAABs or EMB 120's may be on the block. (hope SAAB's)!!!

Either way, think UA is quietly going the right direction on numerous fronts. They are apparently doing more than just worrying about merging...they are aiming for number 1 in all categories..
 
doug_or
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Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:54 pm

Quoting sldispatcher (Reply 15):
I'm also guessing that UA is looking at fleet simplification...either SAABs or EMB 120's may be on the block. (hope SAAB's)!!!

UA doesn't simplify anything by having two separate sub-contractors in two non-overlapping regions harmonize their fleet types. FWIW the SkyWest EMB fleet has been shrinking at a fairly constant rate over the last 4 or 5 years and will continue to do so. I have no idea what Pinacolaba is doing with their SAAB fleet planning.
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kcrwflyer
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Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:54 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 6):
Cumulative fare increases must have made the 135s viable again.

Regardless, they're still probably the least economical aircraft they could possibly fly.
 
ual777
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Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:04 pm

Ok, here are the FACTS.

5 Emb-135s coming online in April. They are going to be EWR based initially.

Here is the RUMOR:

They may bring back more.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
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kgaiflyer
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Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:10 pm

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 7):
DEN-ISN anyone? Probably one of the few super thin markets that can warrant that type of plane and ask for high enough fares to make it profitable?


And markets grow with good service.

For instance, DEN-BIL just graduated to a daily 319.
 
ual777
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Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:11 pm

It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
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Hypoxik
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Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:17 pm

Hoping, they are the 135's that are sitting in MKE. Those are 5 of the higher weight 135's. Also, they are dual FMS frames.

The rumor going around is up to 20 will be brought back. This would let the XR's cycle to the west coast...
California Native. KIWA, PHOG, KEWR, KIAH, KLAX, KIAH, KEWR, KORD, KIAD, KORD, KSFO, KLAX
 
sldispatcher
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RE: Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:47 pm

Simple for me, in today's high fare environments, there are markets where 135's, if used on a relatively short segment, are still profitable...my local airport consistently has lowest advanced purchase fares in the 25 cpm and above range.

I'm also guessing that UA is looking at fleet simplification...either SAABs or EMB 120's may be on the block. (hope SAAB's)!!!

Either way, think UA is quietly going the right direction on numerous fronts. They are apparently doing more than just worrying about merging...they are aiming for number 1 in all categories..

Quoting xjet (Reply 13):
but some rumors suggest that the Dash 8-200s are moving around the system.

not opposed to that at all....How is the air conditioning in those birds? Better suited/more likely to be moved to CLE? or would Houston/DEN/ORD/ or SFO be the most logical place? IF they were to be moved that is.
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:54 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 19):
And markets grow with good service.

For instance, DEN-BIL just graduated to a daily 319.

DEN-BIL has had multiple daily mainline (A320/A319/B735/B733, even a 752 back some days of the week in 2001) for years. There is also a mix of CRJ/ER4/CR7 on the route.
Good goes around!
 
tommy767
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RE: Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:57 pm

Quoting sldispatcher (Reply 22):

I kind of wonder if they will be brought out to SFO to replace some of the elder 120s?
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:08 pm

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 23):
Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 19):
And markets grow with good service.

For instance, DEN-BIL just graduated to a daily 319.

DEN-BIL has had multiple daily mainline (A320/A319/B735/B733, even a 752 back some days of the week in 2001) for years. There is also a mix of CRJ/ER4/CR7 on the route.

I've been getting to BIL by flying to SEA and then flying 700 miles backward on QX Q400s.
So obviously there lots I still don't know about Billings.   
 
Rdh3e
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RE: Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:14 pm

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 17):
Regardless, they're still probably the least economical aircraft they could possibly fly.

Look at it this way, business case in a bottle

EMB135 Revenue - EMB135 Operating Costs - EMB135 Ownership = EMB135 Profit

Other Aircraft (OAC)
OAC Revenue- OAC Op costs- OAC ownership - EMB135 ownership = OAC Profit

Basically the profit from operating the other aircraf needs to be greater than EMB Profit + EMB Ownership + a risk factor for having to sign on for and be stuck with new AC that they may of may not need in a few months.

So really, this business case was stacked from the beginning in favor of the 135's.
 
masseybrown
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RE: Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:17 pm

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 17):
Regardless, they're still probably the least economical aircraft they could possibly fly.

Absolutely. The only other thing I can think of is that the 135 frames have enough time between overhauls remaining to make their operating cost disadvantage less costly than doing heavy checks on some 145s.
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:20 pm

Quoting kinglobjaw (Reply 9):
GFK! Please! Either ORD or DEN!

I think at this point that is only a dream. All the GFK flights I've ever been on have been full but you have to wonder if it really warrants another carrier. If DL doesn't think an upgauge would work I don't see anybody else adding service. GFK obviously didn't believe so either when they built another two gate terminal.

I'm kind of surprised by this. I thought the with such poor economics the only thing those planes would become would be soda cans. Should be interesting to see where they do in fact place these. I can't imagine there are many routes where they would be money makers.
Blue
All of the opinions stated above are mine and do not represent Airliners.net or my employer unless otherwise stated.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:26 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 28):
I'm kind of surprised by this. I thought the with such poor economics the only thing those planes would become would be soda cans. Should be interesting to see where they do in fact place these. I can't imagine there are many routes where they would be money makers.

Don't forget also, that since they're already paying for them, they can sit for hours in outstations with no cost consequences. So they have almost no worries about needing to heavily utilize them. The mentality is probably more similar to freighter economics than normal passenger service.
 
sldispatcher
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RE: Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:50 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 28):
they're already paying for them,
Quoting RDH3E (Reply 26):
So really, this business case was stacked from the beginning in favor of the 135's.

Good points. A little like Allegiant's model. Don't have to fly the wings off of them. Put them in markets where you know you are already demanding a premium. Side effect (if replacing a turboprop) is that public sees it as an "upgrade" in service. May drive even more high base fares into seats.

Not to mention, if replacing Colgan NON Q400 operations, may start saving money on misconnects, reroutes, cancellations. Colgan should be ashamed of their ontime stats (at least to our station)...and even more so, United should not tolerate it at all.
 
cbphoto
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RE: Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:00 pm

Quoting NW747-400 (Reply 2):
This is not a rumor. It is a confirmed fact. Sounds like they will be used in DEN. I think someone mentioned it will be used on the PIA-DEN segment.

Correct! Expressjet will even have it's own dedicated Emb-135 pilot group to operate them!
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
flight152
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RE: Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:28 pm

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 31):
Correct! Expressjet will even have it's own dedicated Emb-135 pilot group to operate them!

What are you talking about? They don't have a seperate pilot group to operate those aircraft.

[Edited 2012-02-01 14:36:34]
 
NW747-400
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RE: Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:45 pm

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 31):
Correct! Expressjet will even have it's own dedicated Emb-135 pilot group to operate them!

It will be the same pilot group. The ERJ drivers are qualified on all the variants including the XR and the 135. There is a difference in pay for flights operated by the 135, however.
 
cbphoto
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RE: Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:03 am

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 32):
What are you talking about? They don't have a seperate pilot group to operate those aircraft.
Quoting NW747-400 (Reply 33):
It will be the same pilot group. The ERJ drivers are qualified on all the variants including the XR and the 135. There is a difference in pay for flights operated by the 135, however.

Well, talking to the few X-jet drivers I know who were hired after the 135s were retired, all said instead of the entire group getting differences training on the ERJ-135, they are going to have a small group of pilots who will receive the differences training and operate them. They could be wrong though, but I am just the messenger on this one! Maybe Expressjet is misinforming their pilot group! I know it doesn't really make sense from an operational point, but like I said, that's what I have been told from multiple X-jet crews!
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
flight152
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RE: Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:10 am

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 34):

Well, talking to the few X-jet drivers I know who were hired after the 135s were retired, all said instead of the entire group getting differences training on the ERJ-135, they are going to have a small group of pilots who will receive the differences training and operate them. They could be wrong though, but I am just the messenger on this one! Maybe Expressjet is misinforming their pilot group! I know it doesn't really make sense from an operational point, but like I said, that's what I have been told from multiple X-jet crews!

There is no difference training. All XE crew members were trained on both when hired. Expressjet hasn't misinformed anyone, you clearly have spoke to misinformed individuals.
 
xjet
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RE: Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:47 am

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 31):

Actually, that isn't the case. We are all qualified to fly 145/135. There is no sub group of pilots. But there is a pay difference for flights utilizing the 135. And the aircraft will be in EWR. There will be no EV domicile in DEN in the near future.
 
modesto2
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RE: Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:04 am

When I flew at ExpressJet, there was a pay difference for captains, but FOs are paid the same, regardless of flying the 135 or 145.
 
cbphoto
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RE: Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:50 am

Well..apparently they are misinformed and I stand corrected! Thanks for the info!
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 274
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RE: Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:55 am

So what is the typical lead time on making the schedule changes? If April is start date, would think that by mid-Feb they should start showing up? Or is that a little too optimistic? I will try to keep an eye out for them to come back through the Express Jet facility here in SHV as I drive by the airport.
 
mhkansan
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RE: Rumor: ExpressJet To Bring Back The EMB-135?

Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:20 am

MHK please! I'd really like to see DENMHK on 2x ER3 to test the waters. I know it would be successful for them!

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