boeingorbust
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New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:01 am

With the new YYC expansion, it was constantly mentioned by the YYC Airport Authority that they wanted to have capacity for A380's to come to YYC as well as Asian carriers that have expressed interest in opening routes. I've heard JL Korean Airlines and China Airlines and others want to open up service. Why have they not already? Will they start once the expansion is done? Anyone have info on who will be in and what types after the expansion?
 
YYZatcboy
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:56 am

Codeshare with WS out of YVR. Why bother opening a new station when you can get feed all across Canada with WS?
DHC1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30 B727 735/6/7/8/9 762/3 E175/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150. J/S DH8D 736/7/8
 
Hawaiian763
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:02 pm

They'll have to turn to Asia if they want the A380 to come YYC, if they have trouble filling an A340 from the Europe than what hope do they have with the A380.

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 1):
Codeshare with WS out of YVR.

As much as we would love to see new metal in YYC, its probably the best option right now, although a direct China-YYC would be great to see. AC's YYC-NRT route must be doing well, I did hear a while back they were bumping up the number of flights per week to Japan from YYC.
 
CPA62
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:27 pm

It would be great to see Calgary get some Asian flights! The expansion plans for YYC look fantastic, But i have to wonder
if YYC will end up being a white elephant?. With Vancouver and Seattle near by for Asia flights and a small population base even if you include Edmonton? YYC seems to have maxed out in terms of demand for European capacity?

May Be South America?
 
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c172akula
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:58 pm

Even as a local YYC'er that all seems overly ambitious. We are losing LH tomorrow, and I highly doubt YYC will see an A380 here (except for the odd diversion) for a long time. Just because the new terminal, runway, and taxiways are being designed to accommodate the A380 doesn't mean we will actually get it here.

Now there could be some potential of increased passenger traffic if the WS Regional airline gets up and running. WS has already said that the two hubs of the operation would be YYC and YYC.

The good news is that the AC NRT flight has done well and is being increased in frequency this summer, and AC says they still plan to operate it year round once they get the proper approvals from Japan. KL is also increasing frequency to AMS. Also unlike YVR Calgary has surpassed the record numbers set back in 2008, so that should speak to its future. So it's not all negative news at YYC to start the new year.

[Edited 2012-02-03 07:01:08]
 
cyeg66
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:25 pm

Quoting C172Akula (Reply 4):
WS has already said that the two hubs of the operation would be YYC and YYC.

Not terribly efficient to operate two stations from the same hub, no?   I know what you meant.

This has been rehashed a few too many times. Just because they're building a runway and terminal that will be A380 compatible doesn't automatically mean that they 'expect' one or many airlines to fly there upon their commissioning. The gall of those Calgarians!!! Of the projects, the runway was always the more necessary of the two, but the new terminal building will allow the airport the shuffle airlines/gates and focus on renovating the older concourses with little to no impact of normal ops. There will be excess capacity when it's all done, and that's not such a terrible thing.
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c172akula
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:35 pm

Busting my chops so early in the morning cyeg66? Haha!

Very good point about the new terminal allowing the ability to refurbish some of the older sections of the current YYC terminal, especially the B/C pier. After just using it en-route to OGG I was made aware of just how outdated and small it is, especially compared to the renovated A pier and much newer D pier.
 
boeingorbust
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:26 am

Does Korean air And JAL still operate charters to YYC in the summer? I remember seeing them a few years ago and they were packed! I doubt the volume is an issue with the codshares with WS either. WS flys frequently to YVR and I'm sure wouldn't mind adding more if they're getting more pax. WS is getting another 30+ planes over the next few years... I wonder where they'll be utilized...?
 
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alevik
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:18 am

One of the significant justifications for the new international terminal at YYC was to improve the service for the ever increasing traffic to southern US climes, very high and steadily growing in winter, but also increasing through the summer months.

The existing US preclearance gates in B/C are maxed out in winter peak times of day even with the swing gates, that can also service domestic flights, in use. Of course, using the swing gates for US flights means they are not available for domestic flights.

So, as said, although the new infrastructure is designed to accommodate A380's (and why wouldn't you when the incremental over not designing for A380's is tiny on the base investment), it in no way means there are imminent plans by any airline to fly them there. Instead, look for continued increase in gauge and frequency of US Airways (in the past was CRJ/A319 once or twice daily, now a mix of A319/A320 two or three times a day), United, AA, etc. and the renovation of the existing outdated B/C gate pier.

The parallel runway is needed to alleviate frequent flow control - my YMM - YYC flight on a Wednesday afternoon with a 4:20pm arrival this week was circled for 20 minutes this week for flow control.
Improvise, adapt, overcome.
 
Whiteguy
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:08 am

The expansion in YYC isn't only for everything operating in and out of the main terminal. There is also a large amount of charter traffic at the south end of the airport. Companies like North Cariboo, Sunwest, CMA and Regional 1 account for a large number of movements in and out of YYC. Hence the flow control, especially Tues thru Thursday.
 
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alevik
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:15 am

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 9):
There is also a large amount of charter traffic at the south end of the airport. Companies like North Cariboo, Sunwest, CMA and Regional 1 account for a large number of movements in and out of YYC.

Right you are - Suncor alone rotates its fleet of Challenger 850/890's (now 4 total with the delivery of the latest 890) several times per day out of the south end.
Improvise, adapt, overcome.
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:22 am

The new international terminal will definitely be a huge improvement. The current international gate waiting areas are way to small to handle the larger planes normal on overseas flights.

Domestic and US ops will be able to spread comfortably spread out.

Whether or not flights will immediately increase isn't the issue. Calgary will continue to grow and capacity will be needed in the future. Better to expand while they have the chance than wait until the airport is completely surrounded by potential NIMBY's.

Planning for the future is a good move.
What the...?
 
Whiteguy
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:38 am

Quoting alevik (Reply 10):
Right you are - Suncor alone rotates its fleet of Challenger 850/890's (now 4 total with the delivery of the latest 890) several times per day out of the south end.

That's right. North Cariboo has also added a seventh Dash 8 (4th 300 series) a B1900 and it's Bae146 should begin operating shortly. Sunwest has also added a 2nd Dash 8.
 
DavidYYC
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:35 am

Queue the anti-Calgary and the anti YYC expansion crowd, posting here, hoping for lower numbers and fewer flights and with more carriers withdrawing and closing up shop.

But wait!

Perhaps we should have employed and paid for these "armchair" airport/airline specialists to guide us here with our multi-million dollar airport and runway expansion. Just what were we thinking, wasting all this money, when we could have asked all these airline/airport 'know it alls" about how any expansion is a waste of time and money, and any hope of any new routes or airlines doming here are a mere pipe dream.
 
ACT7
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:25 am

Quoting DavidYYC (Reply 13):
Queue the anti-Calgary and the anti YYC expansion crowd, posting here, hoping for lower numbers and fewer flights and with more carriers withdrawing and closing up shop.

I don't think there is anything anti-YYC about stating some facts (and opinions). The scale of this expansion is pushing the size of T1 at YYZ so it seems like overkill anyway you slice it. YYC's growth this year was anemic with almost all the growth in the domestic sector. International was down, and transborder was up by about 15,000 which is roughly 41 passengers a day. So if there was substantial transborder traffic growth to the southern U.S. then other American routes must have suffered. I definitely wouldn't hold my breath for an A380 anytime soon. As for Chinese carriers, I don't think YYC is on too many's radar right now. LAX, SFO, SEA, YYZ, YVR, JFK are all way more of a priority for North American destinations for Asian carriers. This is not a criticism of YYC, it's really more of a demographic and economic fact.

True that YYC passed it's 2008 pax totals and YVR hasn't, and YYC handles more domestic pax than YVR, but there is quite a long way to go before international and transborder catch up, which, again, speaks to how excessive this international expansion is. I don't think it will be a white elephant but I do think it will under-utilized for quite a long time.

Hopefully WJ's new regional carrier will allow some feeder traffic to flow through YYC but ultimately you can't force a hub. The economics and demographics have to be there for it. I'm hopeful but doubtful that YYC's growth projections will materialize in the way that's needed to justify such a massive expansion.

Just my two cents.
 
boeingorbust
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:08 am

It's interesting... The new runway I can understand but the massive international terminal expansion makes no sense to me. Why not just build another wing like they did with the D Concourse and leave it at that for the increase in domestic traffic it's experience and no doubt will moreso with WS's new potential regional...?
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:13 am

Quoting Boeingorbust (Reply 15):

The international wing sucks. The area is much too small for even one 330 sized plane at a time. A full flight has people spread over two waiting areas and packed shoulder to shoulder in the hall.

Domestic and N.American flights use smaller planes...the current international area will work for them.

Too often, infrastructure lags behind need. Calgary WILL need the capacity in a few years at most, and if they waited until they did need it, it would cost substantially more and the funds might not be available at the time.

Expansion is inevitable...they might as well strike while the iron's hot.

Besides, this expansion also brings the LRT to the airport and having used a number of airports which had train service, I can vouch for the convenience of the concept.
What the...?
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:49 pm

In 2011, YYC, out of the top 7 busiest airports in the Nation, had the weakest increase y.o.y with a mere 1.1% increase. With the loss of LH, American Eagle, and no real growth announced by any airline to offset said losses for 2012, expect a stagnation or decrease in traffic, although most airports in the Nation (barring maybe YTZ) will face the same thing, with the European economy shrinking and the Canadian one not looking too bright either !

As for new airlines and potential service to Asia, it doesn't take an armchair CEO to figure out that YYC will not get any major Asian player for a few more years to come, if at all, besides your adhoc charter flight or two !

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2012-02-05 11:25:28]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
kiramakora
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:16 pm

Quoting cyeg66 (Reply 5):
There will be excess capacity when it's all done, and that's not such a terrible thing.
Quoting DavidYYC (Reply 13):
Queue the anti-Calgary and the anti YYC expansion crowd, posting here, hoping for lower numbers and fewer flights and with more carriers withdrawing and closing up shop.

But wait!

Perhaps we should have employed and paid for these "armchair" airport/airline specialists to guide us here with our multi-million dollar airport and runway expansion. Just what were we thinking, wasting all this money, when we could have asked all these airline/airport 'know it alls" about how any expansion is a waste of time and money, and any hope of any new routes or airlines doming here are a mere pipe dream.

I don't think you should be this critical. Expansion of YYC supported by increases in fees is not justified in my mind. One can want "better looking facilities", but the airport is mostly functional. My friend at WS and AC tells me that the only bottleneck seems to be USCBP which the Canadians cannot control anyways.

As I have mentioned, the growth of YYC will always be closely interlinked with the growth of WS. If I were the airport authority, I would take every step to ensure that WS is happy. Their CEO has publicly stated the long haul is coming in the next few years. Maybe, it is WS that will grow service to Asia. Not what the current group of YYC planners have visioned for.
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:28 pm

Quoting kiramakora (Reply 18):
Their CEO has publicly stated the long haul is coming in the next few years

That's bull ! We've already established that armchair CEO's here at airliners.net have better insight into these matters, and according to them (or us  ), ain't gonna happen.

Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
kiramakora
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:13 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 19):
That's bull ! We've already established that armchair CEO's here at airliners.net have better insight into these matters, and according to them (or us &nbsp Wink, ain't gonna happen.

Thenoflyzone

Let us revisit this thread in 5 years then  . As I said, the major thing that will facilitate growth for YYC is WS.
 
cyeg66
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:52 pm

Quoting kiramakora (Reply 18):
I don't think you should be this critical.

??? My comment was critical?

Quoting kiramakora (Reply 18):
Expansion of YYC supported by increases in fees is not justified in my mind.

Says it all, don't it, especially those last 3 words? The wait-and-see approach (when things are already far-less than ideal) would be so popular with airlines.....   

Quoting kiramakora (Reply 18):
but the airport is mostly functional.

Again, "mostly" appears to be what you think a large business such as an airport should strive for. How about being the best mediocre, mildly adequate airport suit you for their motto?

Quoting kiramakora (Reply 18):
My friend at WS and AC

You have 1 friend that works for both. I call espionage.  
Quoting kiramakora (Reply 18):
I would take every step to ensure that WS is happy

That approach would probably not go over so well with the big dogs over in AC's HQ, particularly since that is the only homegrown airline that currently offers true, scheduled, long haul flights out of YYC to a variety of places. Wouldn't make you popular among non-armchair CEO's among airlines if you offer concessions only to one of them.... Besides, WS stands to benefit greatly from the expanded airport. Illusory to think otherwise.

Quoting kiramakora (Reply 18):
Their CEO has publicly stated the long haul is coming in the next few years.

I must've missed that. I can only recall comments akin to: "we're looking at the possibility of changing strategies over the next number of years." One has already been announced. Who knows what else is in store? Perhaps Greg S. is your 'friend'; If so, do tell!
slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
 
ACT7
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:25 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 17):
In 2011, YYC, out of the top 7 busiest airports in the Nation, had the weakest increase y.o.y with a mere 1.1% increase.

And second worst was YVR - ironically also doing a massive upgrade.
 
ftornik
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:16 pm

Quoting Boeingorbust (Thread starter):
the YYC Airport Authority that they wanted to have capacity for A380's to come to YYC as well as Asian carriers that have expressed interest in opening routes. I've heard JL Korean Airlines and China Airlines and others want to open up service.

YYC is also hoping that EK gets permission to fly an A380 there. However, I'm not aware of any routes that start with an A-380; YUL-CDG (AF) JFK-FRA (LH) and LHR-SIN (SQ) had all been proven by smaller aircraft (in some cases for years) before the A-380 was used.

The stand-out exception is YYZ-DXB where the Canada-UAE bilateral agreement limited the number of weekly flights but not the size of aircraft, so an A380 replaced a 773!
 
Whiteguy
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:18 am

Quoting ftornik (Reply 23):
The stand-out exception is YYZ-DXB where the Canada-UAE bilateral agreement limited the number of weekly flights but not the size of aircraft, so an A380 replaced a 773!

Putting the A380 was strictly a PR move by EK to try and show the public that more slots were needed. It wasn't a huge increase in seats by putting the 380 on that route. If the demand for more flights was there then why didn't EK take the 6 weekly slots in the first place!

Quoting ftornik (Reply 23):
YYC is also hoping that EK gets permission to fly an A380 there.

That's never been said before. The CAA is just hoping EK will operate to YYC, they don't care which type.

The media likes to put their spin on things when talking about this expansion. My favorite line is that the new runway will enable airlines to fly direct to Asia. Funny that multiple airlines have flown charters out YYC for years and AC operates flights all summer to Asia. That's not why the new runway is being built!
 
ACT7
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:02 am

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 24):
Putting the A380 was strictly a PR move by EK to try and show the public that more slots were needed. It wasn't a huge increase in seats by putting the 380 on that route. If the demand for more flights was there then why didn't EK take the 6 weekly slots in the first place!

The A380 wasn't a PR move, it was a capacity move. That flight averages 95% loads and as soon as EY gets their A380's it will replace the existing 773 on the AUH run.

It was the UAE that granted each EK and EY three flights each so it was never as if one could take all 6 (now 7 anyway) at the time.
 
tinosky
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:08 am

Quoting Boeingorbust (Thread starter):
Korean Airlines and China Airlines and others want to open up service. Why have they not already?

Korean Air has a 772 come in directly from ICN once in a while. I had a good friend of mine come in from ICN. I didn't believe him at first. When I picked him up, I was suprized to see the korean 772 parked in the westjet area.

Quoting CPA62 (Reply 3):
It would be great to see Calgary get some Asian flights!

In due time. Loads have been good for the direct NRT route with AC. I hope to see more from China soon. Especially with the oil sands being a huge interest for the Chinese.

Tinosky,
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:38 am

Quoting Tinosky (Reply 26):
I hope to see more from China soon. Especially with the oil sands being a huge interest for the Chinese.

YYC should consider itself lucky to have a non-stop to Asia. A second non-stop, be it to China or not, is far fetched by any standards, with or without an oil pipeline.

Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
boeingorbust
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:39 am

I agree that WS should be kept happy. Perhaps that's why they got the new D concourse that AC was so hopeful of get. I'm not a big fan of the AIF fees that will becoming and really have already come for the new expansion. Especially since it just feels like YYC wants to be a bigger player so they're upgrading terminal and adding a runway when the terminal expansion IMHO is not really all that needed right now. Perhaps upgrades to the current concourses. I guess time will tell with the years to come and with WS planning regional and then long haul in the near future. AC is already scared seeing as they increased flights to New York airports to hourly after WS announced their 8 flights daily to LGA. If I was AC I'd be scared too.
 
ACT7
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:44 am

Quoting Boeingorbust (Reply 28):
AC is already scared seeing as they increased flights to New York airports to hourly after WS announced their 8 flights daily to LGA. If I was AC I'd be scared too.

But that was ALL from YYZ...
 
Whiteguy
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:13 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 27):
Quoting Boeingorbust (Reply 28):
AC is already scared seeing as they increased flights to New York airports to hourly after WS announced their 8 flights daily to LGA. If I was AC I'd be scared too.

What does that have to do with expansion of YYC? WJ has already been into LGA once before and pulled out. Wait and see how it goes this time. I don't think AC has anything to worry about, they have a pretty solid market share in NY.

Quoting ACT7 (Reply 29):
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:03 pm

Quoting Boeingorbust (Reply 28):
AC is already scared seeing as they increased flights to New York airports to hourly after WS announced their 8 flights daily to LGA

WS will be bleeding red ink with those 736s into LGA. They'll be waving the white flag    soon enough.

WS needs smaller metal if it wants to compete with AC into markets like NY, PHL, BOS and DCA. That is why the Q400s need to arrive ASAP.

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 30):
I don't think AC has anything to worry about, they have a pretty solid market share in NY.

  
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
mogandoCI
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:30 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 31):
WS needs smaller metal if it wants to compete with AC into markets like NY, PHL, BOS and DCA. That is why the Q400s need to arrive ASAP.

I'd avoid any Q400 (or turboprops for that matter) unless there's no choice or WS is substantially lower in price.

Props are great for operators but totally stinks from the pax perspective. Loud... slow...

E-jet is probably the right balance of CASM and frequency on a route like NYC-YYZ.
 
boeingorbust
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:47 pm

Quoting ACT7 (Reply 29):
But that was ALL from YYZ...
Quoting whiteguy (Reply 30):
What does that have to do with expansion of YYC? WJ has already been into LGA once before and pulled out. Wait and see how it goes this time. I don't think AC has anything to worry about, they have a pretty solid market share in NY.

It's a statement in general... WS has expansion plans while AC is continually on the verge of bankruptcy with terrible yields and never ending pension issues. I'm not arguing their share of the YYZ-NYC market, but I'm simply making a point... WS announces 8 flights daily and AC increases service to hourly. This isn't about money making for WS right now it's about getting their foot into a busy market. Their codeshare with DL will probably help but I don't think even WS expects to make money on that routing for a while. They have lots of cash to help them in the market and when the regional comes I wont be surprised to see their regional taking over those slots into LGA once it comes over the next two years. And I'm using it as an overall example of the growth expected from WS at YYC over the next 5-10 years and why it would be important for YYC to ensure WS is happy at YYC.
 
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c172akula
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:58 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 17):
Besides, this expansion also brings the LRT to the airport and having used a number of airports which had train service, I can vouch for the convenience of the concept.

There has been nothing said about this expansion bringing the LRT to the airport. The new airport trail tunnel that will run under the future parallel runway has the space allocated for the LRT, but there is no funding in place. Not too mention that the NE line running to the airport hasn't been decided as the route either, there is still the possibility of the future North-Central line linking to the airport.

The YYC authority would do well to keep both WS and AC happy, a bit of a juggling act but I'm sure they can make it happen. Our success depends on both carriers.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 27):
Korean Air has a 772 come in directly from ICN once in a while. I had a good friend of mine come in from ICN. I didn't believe him at first. When I picked him up, I was suprized to see the korean 772 parked in the westjet area.

The last time KE operated the charter flights to ICN was the summer of 2010. If I recall correctly it was also the first time that they allowed non-Koreans to book the flights. Perhaps that was EK's way of testing the waters for the real potential of YYC? The year before that the route was only bookable in Korea through tour operators, just like the JAL flights that occurred in the years previous to that.
 
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yowza
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:24 pm

Quoting ftornik (Reply 23):
YYC is also hoping that EK gets permission to fly an A380 there

It looks like the EK marketing team did a good job getting folks in YYC all hot and bothered at the prospect of them entering the market. Let's be serious for a second here; EK would struggle to fill the smallest bird they have (that has the legs for DXB-YYC-DXB) even three times a week. Forget the A380 for now.

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 24):
Putting the A380 was strictly a PR move by EK to try and show the public that more slots were needed. It wasn't a huge increase in seats by putting the 380 on that route. If the demand for more flights was there then why didn't EK take the 6 weekly slots in the first place!

Not quite. Loads were strong when they were sending the 77W so it's not like it was a massive spike in seats. http://airceo.com/2010/02/emirates-fights-for-canada-chapter-2/ That said I have no numbers from the time since the A380 was moved onto the route.

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 24):
That's never been said before. The CAA is just hoping EK will operate to YYC, they don't care which type.

The only EK you're going to see in YYC for the foreseeable future is a code share with WS.

Quoting ACT7 (Reply 25):
It was the UAE that granted each EK and EY three flights each so it was never as if one could take all 6 (now 7 anyway) at the time.

Canada negotiates air treaties at a federal to federal level. Whatever foreign governess choose to do with the allocations they are given is their choice/problem. Incidentally do you have any source for this? I don't recall ever hearing that this is how the allocations were split.

YOWza
 
cyeg66
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:37 pm

^Misquoted thenoflyzone, C172Akula.....

Quoting ftornik (Reply 23):
YYC is also hoping that EK gets permission to fly an A380 there.

C'mon, you serious? When there's only a mitt full of markets that can support an A380 across the globe, you really believe the CAA think an A380 is possible (no matter what it's point of origin is)?

Quoting YOWZA (Reply 35):
It looks like the EK marketing team did a good job getting folks in YYC all hot and bothered at the prospect of them entering the market.

C'mon, you serious? Because a few overzealous individuals mention expansion and A380 in relative close proximity to each other, then the belief is that that's the entire purpose for the expansion....? It's (YYC, overall) a small international market/destination; Not a 'heavyweight' like our capital or anything.   
slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
 
flyyul
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:59 pm

Let's be honest here.

Lufthansa, one of the biggest network carriers in the world, had trouble making money in Calgary to one's of the world's premier global gateways. Prior to this, KLM was also struggling significantly.
 
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c172akula
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:03 pm

Article on the small growth at YYC in 2011: http://www.calgaryherald.com/busines...er+traffic+mark/6101879/story.html

Quoting flyyul (Reply 37):
Prior to this, KLM was also struggling significantly.

If that is the case, why are they going daily this summer? Is it the absence of LH on the FRA route, so more room for them in the mix?
 
abrelosojos
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:04 pm

Quoting flyyul (Reply 37):
Let's be honest here.

Lufthansa, one of the biggest network carriers in the world, had trouble making money in Calgary to one's of the world's premier global gateways. Prior to this, KLM was also struggling significantly.

= Oh come on. How much of that did it have to do with your route planning department  ?

Saludos,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
flyyul
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:29 pm

Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 39):
= Oh come on. How much of that did it have to do with your route planning departmen

Absolutely nothing. Lufthansa marches to their own drum.
 
EddieDude
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:41 pm

If and when the visa requirement is terminated, we might see AM start a 3 or 4 weekly YYC-MEX service with 73Ws. MX flew this route and I would imagine it was profitable. Of course the visa requirement may be here to stay or it might be the case that AC moves faster than AM to launch this route, so I am not very hopeful.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
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c172akula
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:17 pm

It would be nice to see a Mexican route come back (that isn't just the usual "sun run" ones from AC and WS)!

[Edited 2012-02-06 09:18:16]
 
ACT7
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:23 pm

Quoting YOWZA (Reply 35):
Canada negotiates air treaties at a federal to federal level. Whatever foreign governess choose to do with the allocations they are given is their choice/problem. Incidentally do you have any source for this? I don't recall ever hearing that this is how the allocations were split.

Here is the article that states that...

http://www.cbc.ca/fp/story/2011/06/03/4885026.html

Quoting YOWZA (Reply 35):
Not quite. Loads were strong when they were sending the 77W so it's not like it was a massive spike in seats. http://airceo.com/2010/02/emirates-fights-for-canada-chapter-2/ That said I have no numbers from the time since the A380 was moved onto the route.

Here's a link stating 99% load factors to Toronto.

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Thenoflyzone
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:34 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 32):
Props are great for operators but totally stinks from the pax perspective. Loud... slow...

Loud, maybe. Slow, the Q400 is definately not !

Quoting C172Akula (Reply 38):
Article on the small growth at YYC in 2011: http://www.calgaryherald.com/busines....html

The entire bottom half of that article is just hot air ! This aviation analyst needs to do some more homework.

Overtaking YVR....LOL....overtake YUL first, and then think about YVR. it's a little notion called "one step at a time".

Example of "one step at a time"....> "think about keeping your European airlines before thinking about attracting Asian ones".

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2012-02-06 09:41:11]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
Whiteguy
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:41 pm

Quoting ACT7 (Reply 43):
Here is the article that states that...

http://www.cbc.ca/fp/story/2011/06/0....html

All that article states is that each have 3 slots. It's been talked about before on here that EK had the chance to use all 6 slots. They decided they only wanted 3 and EY took the other 3.
 
ACT7
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:46 pm

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 45):
All that article states is that each have 3 slots. It's been talked about before on here that EK had the chance to use all 6 slots. They decided they only wanted 3 and EY took the other 3.

Then you didn't read the entire article because it clearly states that "
The UAE has granted Etihad and Emirates each three flights per week,"

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/fp/story/2011/06/03/4885026.html#ixzz1lco4gMqo
 
ACT7
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:56 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 44):
Overtaking YVR....LOL....overtake YUL first, and then think about YVR. it's a little notion called "one step at a time".

Example of "one step at a time"....> "think about keeping your European airlines before thinking about attracting Asian ones".

Couldn't agree more!
 
ACT7
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:57 pm

Quoting YOWZA (Reply 35):
Not quite. Loads were strong when they were sending the 77W so it's not like it was a massive spike in seats. http://airceo.com/2010/02/emirates-fights-for-canada-chapter-2/ That said I have no numbers from the time since the A380 was moved onto the route.

Sorry, my link didn't come through last time.

So between your link and this one, assuming a 95% LF is not unreasonable. Also, the difference in capacity between EK's 77W and A380's is about 140 pax, so not insignificant.

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c172akula
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RE: New Airlines To YYC In The Near Future?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:21 pm

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 45):
The entire bottom half of that article is just hot air ! This aviation analyst needs to do some more homework.

Overtaking YVR....LOL....overtake YUL first, and then think about YVR. it's a little notion called "one step at a time".

Example of "one step at a time"....> "think about keeping your European airlines before thinking about attracting Asian ones".

I couldn't believe that when I read it either, let me assure everyone here that those of us in YYC that pay attention to these things don't have dreams like that!

I have it on pretty good authority that LH left due to yields, and not load factor. Apparently a lot of the traffic was connecting at FRA onwards to India, the Middle East, and Africa. The traffic was also incredibly price sensitive. So the dual lifts with AC and LH maxed out the small German O&D market.

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