USAirALB
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AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:57 pm

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/201...an-ceo-pans-us-airways-merger.html

According to Tom Horton, CEO of American, "This is not US Airways' first attempt at this. This is a small company very strategically limited, I would argue - not any international flying, hubs of less strategic importance. This will be their fourth try at this: Twice for United, once for Delta while they were restructuring, now American. I would argue that this will be every bit as successful as their prior tries. I'm not sure what's in the water out there in Phoenix. Maybe it's the cactus. I don't know what it is."

Pretty bold, almost childish statement by Tom Horton, especially when you consider that US has the third largest hub in America and serves more destinations in Europe than AA.

Didn't see this posted or discussed. If so, mods please delete.
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masseybrown
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:07 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Thread starter):
Pretty bold, almost childish statement by Tom Horton,

And so unnecessary that he must feel US is a real threat.
 
jfk777
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:09 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Thread starter):
Pretty bold, almost childish statement by Tom Horton, especially when you consider that US has the third largest hub in America and serves more destinations in Europe than AA.

USairways has in the last 20 years been offered chnaces to fly to Japan and China, but they seem to have " Pacific Allergies". Must be something in teh water in Philadelphia and Charlotte. They never went to Tokyo or Peking because they made the choice NOT TOO.

How many times a day does US fly from Any USA city to LHR, GRU, EZE or NRT ? Once out of Philly to LHR and non tpo Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires or Tokyo. Enough said.
 
william
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:14 pm

Well considering all the financial talking heads (and many here at Anet) are acting as if this US tie up is a done deal, I see why he finally just spoke his mind and remind everyone this isn't US first trip to the altar............And don't be surprised if he has a plan B ie. IAG and TPG in his corner.
 
jfk777
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:17 pm

Quoting william (Reply 3):
Well considering all the financial talking heads (and many here at Anet) are acting as if this US tie up is a done deal, I see why he finally just spoke his mind and remind everyone this isn't US first trip to the altar............And don't be surprised if he has a plan B ie. IAG and TPG in his corner.

Amy future AA will certainly have IAG in it in one degree or another. TPG will probably be there too since they have positive history of airline investments.
 
HVNandrew
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:18 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):

I would argue that the lack of a Pacific network isn't so much a weakness as much as it is a decision to not participate in the market. Given the setup of the current US hubs, it's probably the correct decision. The only hub that could support service to Asia would probably be PHL to NRT, and even then it would be a big risk that would take up a lot of resources. Sometimes it's better to sit out a fight than engage in a losing battle. US has done a great job with what it has, and built a very respectable Easy Coast-Europe route network.

It isn't necessary for a major US airline to be a player in the pacific market. After DL made its PDX and LAX cuts in the early 2000s, ATL-NRT was the only trans-Pacific route in the DL network for years. Up until the NW merger, I believe the only Asian routes at DL were ATL-NRT/ICN/PVG.
 
USAirALB
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:23 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):
How many times a day does US fly from Any USA city to LHR, GRU, EZE or NRT ? Once out of Philly to LHR and non tpo Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires or Tokyo. Enough said.

LHR and NRT are all oneworld hubs and AA has been flying to South America for years. US has only flown to South America for two years now.

The same could be said with AA and Germany. This summer, US will have PHL-FRA(2X), CLT-FRA(2X), PHL-MUC(1X). AA is a much larger airline, yet only offers one year round flight to Germany, and two in the summer.
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planespotting
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:25 pm

I don't see Gerard Arpey responding this way - Tom Horton needs to act like the CEO of a company in Chapter 11. His company is in this situation because they have no more cards to play.

I don't see US Airways in bankruptcy at the moment ...
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D L X
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:35 pm

This must be in response to LCC stock rising 50% in the past two weeks, and 6% today alone.

I'm really quite surprised at this childish response. Horton has a fiduciary duty to his creditors to get them recompensated. If US decides to shell out the money, Horton needs to act like a grown-up and take it.
 
AS739BSI
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:42 pm

Um, last check of AMR stock, it is at .653 per share, and 41% owned, with 335.23 million shares, and it is publicly traded. US could pick them up for around $112 million. Unless another 10% is bought up soon, AMR is open for a hostile takeover if I am not mistaken. I think US is waiting on the sidelines for the perfect moment to strike.
 
sulley
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:42 pm

I don't know which I enjoy more - Horton's remarks, or the thin-skinned chest thumping Charlotteans commenting on the Observer's website.

Oh, Charlotte, you're so... predictibly Charlotte.

[Edited 2012-02-03 10:45:21]
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mikey72
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:46 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Thread starter):
Pretty bold, almost childish statement by Tom Horton
Quoting USAirALB (Thread starter):
And so unnecessary that he must feel US is a real threat.

Not really. Welcome to the airline industry. Branson, O'Leary anyone.....

Quoting planespotting (Reply 7):
Tom Horton needs to act like the CEO of a company in Chapter 11. His company is in this situation because they have no more cards to play.

Oh come on...Chapter 11 is almost a reason to put your feet up and chill out for airlines in the U.S

No wonder he's feeling bullish. Don't blame him. Only way is up. (forgive the pun)
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rj777
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:46 pm

AA must know about the US/HP seniority list issue and that's probably another reason they don't want them.
 
EricR
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:48 pm

Interesting comment from Horton about how US has no international flying. They fly to more places in Europe than AA. While I understand he probably intended to say they had less international flying than AA, it is an odd comment when AA flies to less European locations than US.

While AA's hubs are located in metro areas with larger population than US's hubs, I am surprised he is dismissing the value US could bring to AA, notably a larger domestic route structure to help them feed their international routes (an important post-BK focus) and a nice DCA focus city.

Quoting USAirALB (Thread starter):
I'm not sure what's in the water out there in Phoenix.


From personal experience, the water is not the best in Phoenix. It is hard water with a lot of calcium, but alas, I am digressing.

[Edited 2012-02-03 10:49:34]
 
AeroWesty
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:51 pm

Quoting AS739BSI (Reply 9):
US could pick them up for around $112 million.

$112 million PLUS taking on all of the unresolved debt, labor contracts and other BK issues. And $112 million is only at today's prices, not if someone were to make a bid for the company. The stock price is a very poor indicator of the resources that'd be necessary to pick up AMR outright at this point.
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Rdh3e
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:55 pm

Quoting AS739BSI (Reply 9):
Um, last check of AMR stock, it is at .653 per share, and 41% owned, with 335.23 million shares, and it is publicly traded. US could pick them up for around $112 million. Unless another 10% is bought up soon, AMR is open for a hostile takeover if I am not mistaken. I think US is waiting on the sidelines for the perfect moment to strike.

Also, it's not 41% "owned", it's 100% owned. 52% by institutions as of my writing. A stock can never be owned less than 100%, someone is stuck holding the stock certificate at the end of the day.
 
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mariner
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:59 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Thread starter):
Pretty bold, almost childish statement by Tom Horton, especially when you consider that US has the third largest hub in America and serves more destinations in Europe than AA.

I thought it was just a throwaway funny. I smiled.

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flyguy89
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:04 pm

Quoting planespotting (Reply 7):
I don't see US Airways in bankruptcy at the moment ...

...because they'd already been there and back. One could argue AA took the high road and waited to sort out their problems internally before declaring bankruptcy as a last resort.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 6):
AA is a much larger airline, yet only offers one year round flight to Germany, and two in the summer.

I'm not sure why everyone is using Europe as the end-all be-all comparison with regard to international flying. I concede that AA is weak in Europe....but TATL flying is hurting the most right now while Central and South America are booming which is where AA dominates along with the Caribbean. When it comes down to it, AA has the planes and the network if it decides to expand TATL routes when the timing is right, but US lacks both when it comes to Central and South America.
 
AS739BSI
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:04 pm

I stand corrected. It isn't worth buying AMR given the debt and liabilities. While certain areas are attractive, that debt is an instant turn off for any accquistion in the immediate future.
 
planespotting
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:15 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 11):
Oh come on...Chapter 11 is almost a reason to put your feet up and chill out for airlines in the U.S

I'm not saying he should be pounding the pavement trying to find a suitor or figuring out a way to fix his company - just that Chapter 11 was AA's last resort and they don't have any other legs to stand on right now => not an enviable position to be in, and certainly not one that someone should be blustering from.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 17):
Quoting planespotting (Reply 7):
I don't see US Airways in bankruptcy at the moment ...

...because they'd already been there and back. One could argue AA took the high road and waited to sort out their problems internally before declaring bankruptcy as a last resort.

That's a valid argument, but how does AA's decision to stave off bankruptcy until now compare to US Airways/America West's decision to file Chap 11 then and subsequently merge? Which company is in a more enviable position at the present time?

It's not AA.
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Flighty
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:22 pm

The problem is, he really needs to argue how he can match the cost structure of a US-AA tieup. And that is, to be fair, a physical impossibility. DL had a better merger partner in NW. AA is left arguing it doesn't want to change its cost structure very much. But, creditors may disagree.

If he is arguing US wouldn't know how to do the financials on big int'l operations, it seems a little silly. US occasionally didn't launch flights that would lose boatloads of money. AA tended to launch them. US has a network about as complex as AA. It seems to manage it well.

[Edited 2012-02-03 11:49:39]
 
flyguy89
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:27 pm

Quoting planespotting (Reply 19):
but how does AA's decision to stave off bankruptcy until now compare to US Airways/America West's decision to file Chap 11 then and subsequently merge?

It doesn't, but I see a lot of people or 'fans' of UA, DL, NW, CO...etc always seem to try and leverage some sort of moral high ground over AA because AA is in bankruptcy right now and the other airlines aren't, which is disingenuous as all major US carriers have gone through the bankruptcy process (some more than others).
 
ldvaviation
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:36 pm

Quoting william (Reply 3):
Well considering all the financial talking heads (and many here at Anet) are acting as if this US tie up is a done deal, I see why he finally just spoke his mind and remind everyone this isn't US first trip to the altar............And don't be surprised if he has a plan B ie. IAG and TPG in his corner.

Tom Horton is not a loudmouth. His expertise is finance. So, if he feels confident enough to ridicule US, it can only mean that he already has an agreement in principle with TPG, Citibank, and maybe even IAG to provide exist financing. That's what this means.

[Edited 2012-02-03 12:31:57]
 
EricR
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:01 pm

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 17):
I'm not sure why everyone is using Europe as the end-all be-all comparison with regard to international flying.

Because Horton is quoted in his interview as saying that US has no international flying. Everyone is using Europe as an example because US flies to more European destinations than AA.
 
flyguy89
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:31 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 23):
Everyone is using Europe as an example because US flies to more European destinations than AA.

Because it's the ONLY example where US flies to more destinations than AA. Add up AA's destinations served in Canada, the Caribbean, Mexico, Central and South America, Asia, and Europe and you'll find that AA flies to, far and away, more international destinations than US.
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:40 pm

Seems like any overture US may make at this point will be hostile.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:49 pm

he pans US but says nothing about DL.

No matter how you look at it it says a lot.

I know I will get is a flamewar....but do not discount the AS factor in this the cash pile of WN. Somehow they will all come into play before this is all over.
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EricR
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:56 pm

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 24):
Quoting EricR (Reply 23):
Everyone is using Europe as an example because US flies to more European destinations than AA.

Because it's the ONLY example where US flies to more destinations than AA. Add up AA's destinations served in Canada, the Caribbean, Mexico, Central and South America, Asia, and Europe and you'll find that AA flies to, far and away, more international destinations than US.

Correct, but it is an example of where US flies to internationally. When a CEO of one airline inaccurately describes the network of another airline, it is bound to be criticized by A-nutters.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:12 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Thread starter):
Pretty bold, almost childish statement by Tom Horton, especially when you consider that US has the third largest hub in America and serves more destinations in Europe than AA.

Yet AA is still a significantly larger airline to Europe. It offers more capacity to just London than US Airways does between PHL and the EU right now, IIRC.

His statements are dead on accurate. US brings nothing to the table sans CLT and DCA and does nothing to solve AA's biggest problem, which is arguably lack of depth in its network.
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boeing773er
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:24 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 28):
AA's biggest problem, which is arguably lack of depth in its network.

Technically, AA's biggest problem is not being able to make a profit.
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D L X
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:27 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 28):
His statements are dead on accurate.

Except that the smaller America West DID merge with the larger US Airways.
 
EricR
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:31 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 28):
His statements are dead on accurate.

Except that US does have international flying contrary to his statement.

[Edited 2012-02-03 13:32:31]
 
southwest737500
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:15 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 28):

Yes it does, think about. North and south traffic

Say your flying from PIT to MYR. you have to go PIT-DFW- MYR. I think

It makes more sense to just hop over to CLT
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yellowtail
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:59 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 28):
to solve AA's biggest problem, which is arguably lack of depth in its network.

I would say their biggest problem could be chosen from one of the below
1) bad management
2) unions
3) high costs
4) depth of network.

All of lead back to poor management decisions...which US can fix.
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cjpmaestro
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:32 am

I just think it's hysterical that they are in BK, bleeding money and laying off 13K employees and he can bad mouth another airline with such arrogance. I know there are many that like to trash US, but no one can deny they are doing a lot of things right - which is the result of GOOD MANAGEMENT. I think it shows such poor form for the industry as a whole. As a matter of fact I cannot recall another exec disrespecting another airline like that. I didn't have an opinion on Horton one way or another, but after this comment I have zero respect for him. Maybe he's ensuring his retirement when US takes them over.
 
washingtonian
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:58 am

Quoting cjpmaestro (Reply 34):

I just think it's hysterical that they are in BK, bleeding money and laying off 13K employees and he can bad mouth another airline with such arrogance.

{Checkmark} Agree 100%.

Quoting cjpmaestro (Reply 34):
I know there are many that like to trash US

Yeah, but we are not the CEO of an airline in Chapter 11 with several other airlines planning hostile takeover bids. Super arrogant comments by him.
 
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GSPFlyer
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:06 am

So CLT still would bring nothing to AA?   

The Southeastern US is an area that has a rapidly growing population, and this will continue to grow for years to come. AA does not serve this area very well. Yes, they serve most smaller Southeastern markets via DFW, but that is only beneficial to us Southerners if we're traveling West of the Mississippi. ORD was good for connections to the West and some of the Northeast, but they have pulled service from ORD to many of the smaller cities. Some cities, like CHS, are gaining service to MIA, but you would still have to back-track quite a bit if you're traveling to the Northeast, especially from places like North Carolina, Tennessee, Alabama. DL and US do the best job at serving the area with ATL and CLT (respectively). UA does a pretty good job, with IAD and IAH.

Also, you have DCA and PHL. With the DL/US slot swap, US will definitely be king at slot-restricted DCA, in the middle of our nations capital. There must be quite a bit of premium traffic in/out of DCA...am I right? PHL may not seem like it brings too much, but is a large metro area (top 5), and also a good place for East Coast-Europe connections. AA's current options are DFW (too far west), MIA (Too Far South), JFK (crowded, slot restricted, Strong competition with DL...and UA over at EWR), and ORD (Strong competition with UA).

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 32):
Yes it does, think about. North and south traffic

Say your flying from PIT to MYR. you have to go PIT-DFW- MYR. I think

It makes more sense to just hop over to CLT

That's why I don't fly AA very often. The places I most commonly fly to are PHL and SLC.. The only airport AA serves GSP from is DFW...perfect if I'm flying to SLC, not so much PHL. CLT, IAD, and ATL are perfect routings if I'm flying to either one of these places.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:10 am

Quoting planespotting (Reply 7):
I don't see US Airways in bankruptcy at the moment ...

But to be fair, US has had its share of bankruptcy and negative PR over the last 20 years. American has done so much better than US ever has.

Quoting rj777 (Reply 12):
AA must know about the US/HP seniority list issue and that's probably another reason they don't want them.

   That is a possibility. However, US just got one of their workgroups (I think the FA's) under one contract for the first time in their merger....after 5-6 years of bickering.

Quoting EricR (Reply 13):
From personal experience, the water is not the best in Phoenix. It is hard water with a lot of calcium, but alas, I am digressing.

   You cannot drink from the tap. That water is gross. The only good about the tapwater is for dishwashing, laundry and showering. That is basically it. You have to buy your water bottled if you want to drink it.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 33):
I would say their biggest problem could be chosen from one of the below
1) bad management
2) unions
3) high costs
4) depth of network.

That pretty much sums it up. The employees are paid beyond an arm and leg from what I understand.

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 5):
I would argue that the lack of a Pacific network isn't so much a weakness as much as it is a decision to not participate in the market.

Then why did they want the China routes so, so bad? They had the opportunity to acquire an A340, but they put that off for a long time and eventually LOST the China routes after delaying the start up. I think that left a sour taste in the DOT's mouth.
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LipeGIG
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:41 am

Quoting USAirALB (Thread starter):
According to Tom Horton, CEO of American, "This is not US Airways' first attempt at this. This is a small company very strategically limited, I would argue - not any international flying, hubs of less strategic importance. This will be their fourth try at this: Twice for United, once for Delta while they were restructuring, now American. I would argue that this will be every bit as successful as their prior tries. I'm not sure what's in the water out there in Phoenix. Maybe it's the cactus. I don't know what it is."

Pretty bold, almost childish statement by Tom Horton, especially when you consider that US has the third largest hub in America and serves more destinations in Europe than AA.

Good for US, grow on their own.
Not the best type of speech for any CEO, a complete lack of respect by Horton. If he wants to say no, and do not want to make further comments, it's more acceptable.
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ldvaviation
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:59 am

Quoting cjpmaestro (Reply 34):
I just think it's hysterical that they are in BK, bleeding money and laying off 13K employees and he can bad mouth another airline with such arrogance. I know there are many that like to trash US, but no one can deny they are doing a lot of things right - which is the result of GOOD MANAGEMENT. I think it shows such poor form for the industry as a whole. As a matter of fact I cannot recall another exec disrespecting another airline like that. I didn't have an opinion on Horton one way or another, but after this comment I have zero respect for him. Maybe he's ensuring his retirement when US takes them over.

He can bad mouth another airline because he is more confident in his exit strategy than whatever strategy US Airways could propose.

Horton is a very smart guy. He hasn't spent his entire working life in the airline business. See what he did at AT&T. He's also a finance guy, which is why AA was able to buy airplanes when their outlook wasn't so great. He may not have your respect, but he sure has the respect of the bankers.

When news first broke about a possible merger with US or Delta, Horton had no comment. If he's being brash now, there must be something more to it. He has an ace up his sleeve.

As to what US is or is not doing, their management has been telling us for years that the airline is profitable because it has a labor cost advantage over all the legacies. Take that labor cost advantage away and US management has claimed that their network would not be profitable. That labor cost advantage was not the result of any brilliant moves by management, but the result of having declared bankruptcy twice in succession. As a matter of fact, the profitability of almost all the legacies (except American of course) has more to due with gains made under bankruptcy court supervision than it has to do with good management.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:06 am

What we are all forgetting is that his comments may actually have not been really aimed at US...they may have been aimed at his employees. To fire them up. Like a coach's pep talk.
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C010T3
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:28 am

Of course, Tim Horton is acting like this. If a merger takes place, it will not be between equals. There is an element of corporatism acting there, which is clearly an agency conflict.
 
ASFlyer
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:44 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):
USairways has in the last 20 years been offered chnaces to fly to Japan and China, but they seem to have " Pacific Allergies". Must be something in teh water in Philadelphia and Charlotte. They never went to Tokyo or Peking because they made the choice NOT TOO.

How many times a day does US fly from Any USA city to LHR, GRU, EZE or NRT ? Once out of Philly to LHR and non tpo Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires or Tokyo. Enough said.

American isn't exactly a power house in Asia either. They fly to a small handful of cities there but are still eclipsed by UA and DL. US Airways is much stronger in Europe than AA. The fact is that US' hub in CLT is larger than any of the AA hubs. AA might be a larger airline but US isn't anything to discount either. US also isn't currently bankrupt.
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:47 am

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 35):
Super arrogant comments by him.

No difference from MOL, of course. Only MOL is worse.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 38):
Good for US, grow on their own.

I agree. US needs to let go of this "merger mania" and grow on their own. They can do it. They don't need AA or anybody else.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
mogandoCI
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:39 pm

RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:57 am

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 42):
American isn't exactly a power house in Asia either. They fly to a small handful of cities there but are still eclipsed by UA and DL.

3 to be exact, spanning 2 countries. I think in Europe they're probably eclipsed by UA/DL/US in terms of coverage. Central America they're neck-and-neck with PMCO, so their only real strength is South America (owing to the fact that MIA is not large enough a city to support 2 carriers hubbing at equilibrium).
 
caliboy78
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:41 am

Just a few points:

1.- All the DL and UA having a better presence in Europe / Asia was gained because of the merger / BK. Before the merger DL had near ZERO presence in Asia and very limited in Europe. Same for UA with the exception of NW and CO which we all know had a hub in Asia.
2.- US might have better presence in EU but reality is that they only go to a handful of cities once and twice to key markets a day - vs - AA that fly multiple times a day from multiple hubs. I agree that AA needs better presence in EU but in my opinion seems like AA rather dominate the market than just go to have a city in the map.
3.- Before we keep bashing AA please look back and see where all the legacies were couple of years ago (some more than once) in BK. They came up strong and merged and now they are bigger and stronger but what we fail to see here is that AA took the more painful road and now they are paying the consequences. Do I think AA had a plan? Yes I do. I think AA wanted to wait and go into BK after the legacies had their things all sorted out so that when AA came out of BK they can be in a better position to compete against legacies and LCCs.
4.- I really don't think that Mr. Horton was arrogant at all with his comments. He simply stated that US doesn't bring much to AA. He made a joke about the water in PHX. Please people lighten up is humor!!!
5.- I agree with Mr. Horton when he said that AA needs to focus on their BK right now and not worry about a merger / takeover. AA will after emerging from BK will find and maybe merge with a suitor partner. Do I think AA-US will happen? Yes I do. Do I think it will happen during AA BK? No. I think AA will eventually merge with US but it will be after the exit and under AAs term and conditions. Just look back and see that AA has always been the one acquiring not getting acquired.

Can I be wrong about the above comments.... ABSOLUTELY..... Let the flaming begin.
TAAke pride on what you do and do it well.
 
EricR
Posts: 1223
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:15 pm

RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:44 am

Quoting caliboy78 (Reply 45):
He made a joke about the water in PHX. Please people lighten up is humor!!!

Oh it's no joke......the water in Phoenix is pretty bad.
 
United1
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:49 am

Quoting caliboy78 (Reply 45):
All the DL and UA having a better presence in Europe / Asia was gained because of the merger / BK. Before the merger DL had near ZERO presence in Asia and very limited in Europe. Same for UA with the exception of NW and CO which we all know had a hub in Asia.

Couple corrections..

UA was the largest US airline in Asia prior to the merger....and has been ever since 1986 when they purchased PAs Pacific network. UA wasn't exactly a slouch across the Atlantic prior to the merger either...IIRC PMUAs transatlantic network was larger than AAs or US.

DL was the largest airline to Europe prior to the merger...
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
airlinespotter
Posts: 76
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:56 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 28):
AA's biggest problem, which is arguably lack of depth in its network.

Lack of depth in its network? So you are telling me that AA has depth but makes no profits whatsoever and bankrupt but US has no depth but makes money? What is your logic?
 
HPRamper
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RE: AA Dismisses US Merger

Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:25 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 37):
That is a possibility. However, US just got one of their workgroups (I think the FA's) under one contract for the first time in their merger....after 5-6 years of bickering.

The FAs haven't really been bickering. They've just basically been waiting for the pilot groups to figure something out. They finally got tired of waiting. There has never been this atmosphere of animosity around the FA labor groups as there has in the pilot groups.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 37):
Then why did they want the China routes so, so bad? They had the opportunity to acquire an A340, but they put that off for a long time and eventually LOST the China routes after delaying the start up. I think that left a sour taste in the DOT's mouth.

Maybe after the 747 debacle US management realized that flying a route only once daily to Asia, with one airplane, is asking to be squashed by the bigger players. They saw that with their fleet, Europe was much more realistic. Sure enough, US has made money hand over fist flying to Europe and I'm not at all convinced US would have been wildly successful to China. Or NRT for that matter.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 43):
I agree. US needs to let go of this "merger mania" and grow on their own. They can do it. They don't need AA or anybody else.

I'm not sure there is much more room for anyone to grow at this point, domestically. Unless someone liquidates. Any one of the domestic airlines liquidating would open up a huge swath of territory for expansion. US has new planes coming but they are more to replace the 734s than to do any kind of meaningful expansion.

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