emirates202
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Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:18 pm

I read in an article that EK is just once daily out of IAH due to Dallas. I didn't believe it at first, but it is true. It shows on the EK website only 1 daily flight IAH-DXB. Do you think it was a good idea? I thought they were doing well out of IAH. The only flight now is the evening one, not the morning one. Any ideas if they're gonna bring it back? Maybe with a A380?

Thanks for any thought!

-emirates202
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yellowtail
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:30 pm

Yes the second flight was moved to DFW. Personally I think the market was not able to absorb that much capacity that quickly especially with the strength of star (LH) providing Indian connections to the loyal CO market in IAH and the arrival of QR.

I have no doubt that EK will bring back the second daily....but they have to give the market some to grow a bit more.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
migair54
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:49 pm

Actually I think it was a good decission... Dallas is a huge city and to attract really high yield pax EK has to flight directly to there and one daily to Houston should be ok, maybe in a short future we could see like 10xIAH and 10xDFW... however maybe the cost of the crew layover is too much, and they decide to go for a second daily to any of the cities.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:04 pm

The second flt did ok but on an ULH like IAH-DXB it was trashing the yields. you should see the remaining flight back to 95% LFs. IAH really needs an 773 but it can make it without a penalty.

Someone mentioned the 380....at IAH card is huge...if you see a 380 then I would expect to see some kind of sky cargo service to supplement.

EK also noticed that a lot of their IAH pax were connecting from DFW, so I guess their figured to get the best of both worlds by moving the second flight up the road.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:18 pm

Perhaps the competition from Qatar Airways might have something do with EK's flight reduction also?
 
Whiteguy
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:38 pm

Quoting emirates202 (Thread starter):
I read in an article that EK is just once daily out of IAH due to Dallas. I didn't believe it at first, but it is true. It shows on the EK website only 1 daily flight IAH-DXB. Do you think it was a good idea? I thought they were doing well out of IAH. The only flight now is the evening one, not the morning one. Any ideas if they're gonna bring it back? Maybe with a A380?

Don't think the 380 can do IAH non stop without weight restrictions.
 
Eightball
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:52 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 4):
Perhaps the competition from Qatar Airways might have something do with EK's flight reduction also?

I'd say that's plausible. I was on QR 77 last week, DOH-IAH, and there was barely an empty seat on the flight.
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MaverickM11
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:22 am

The 2nd flight was added and the load factor pretty much halved. QR didn't help either. The second flight basically doubled seats without many incremental passengers.
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klwright69
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:52 am

I had a friend who took the EK DXB-IAH nonstop. She took it when there were two daily flights. She said one direction the flight was totally empty.

Also when booking at QR's website, I noticed that they offered extensive connections via IAH on UA and CO.

I thought 2 flights in the market was complete overkill on EK's part since QR is already there.
 
KU747
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:22 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 8):
I had a friend who took the EK DXB-IAH nonstop. She took it when there were two daily flights. She said one direction the flight was totally empty.

I was on EK to IAH last Oct. and it was empty as well.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 8):
I thought 2 flights in the market was complete overkill on EK's part since QR is already there.

I agree.

One of EK employees told me that the reason for the second flight to IAH is to book a slot to the US, in other words, this flight was planned to have the DFW route!!! This doesn't make sense to me.
Why should EK operate a second flight to IAH with a possible loss for months and months just to book a slot to secure DFW route !!!
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DariusBieber
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:07 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 2):
Dallas is a huge city

A common misconception. In fact, San Antonio is a bigger city than Dallas. The metropolitan area with Fort Worth is what makes DFW a major hub.
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ouboy79
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:00 pm

Quoting DariusBieber (Reply 10):
A common misconception. In fact, San Antonio is a bigger city than Dallas. The metropolitan area with Fort Worth is what makes DFW a major hub.

Most don't take in account individual city size. Yeah Dallas itself is around 1.2M whereas San Antonio is around 1.3M...but the D/FW metro area is at almost 6.4M compared to San Antonio at 2.1M. When most people say "Dallas" they typically mean the entire area, like in most cases when referring to an area - go with the biggest city. Not many are going to break it down to include Plano, Arlington, Irving, and such unless they are go to the area quite often or are local.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:23 pm

Quoting KU747 (Reply 9):
Why should EK operate a second flight to IAH with a possible loss for months and months just to book a slot to secure DFW route !!!

EK has plenty of money to support one temporarily, money-losing flight if they know they have something coming. Could be a clout thing too.
 
hohd
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:01 pm

I agree. I came on the second flight a few months from DXB to IAH, it was nearly empty, I had all 4 seats for myself in the back of the plane. Needless to mention, it was one of the best flights I had even taken on a long haul flight. And yes, I saw many passengers connecting to DFW area, primarily to cities other than DEL and BOM.

However DFW probably cannot sustain any more than a daily flight, even in the distant future. And, for now it is going to once daily to IAH also, for a long time. Price wise, EK is generally not the cheapest especially to cities other than DEL or BOM, but for tickets at the last minute (within 3 days of the flight), EK or QR are generally the least expensive.
 
migair54
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:21 am

Singapore airlines is also reducing the SIN-DME-IAH.... so maybe now with QR and EK Houston is a bit saturated... and EK make a very clever move moving from a second daily IAH to a new destination serving a huge market like Dallas Area...

I´m sure part of the cargo they had in IAH they can also get that in DFW because is not that far away and DFW is a huge hub for AA as well..
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:47 pm

Quoting DariusBieber (Reply 10):

San Antonio is larger than Dallas the same way Jacksonville is larger than Miami or that Louisville is larger than Atlanta. The city propers have more people but also encompass much larger land areas. The city of San Antonio has 25% more land to work with. That's why city proper stats are useless. Even with out Fort Worth and it's burbs, the Dallas area is around 4.5 million which is roughly twice as large as the San Antonio area.

But I digress on that. As for the topic, this made total sense for EK. I was told that yields went in the crapper after the addition of the second flight and that they saw a huge number of passengers connecting from DFW (particularly to BOM, HYD, and BLR). Given the growing ties between India and DFW coupled with the fact that DFW has the fastest growing Indian community in the US per capita (having passed Houston and Atlanta in the last decade) and the fact that AA canned ORD-DEL ( which was popular here) this flight is poised for success.
It is what it is...
 
jr
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:09 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 15):

San Antonio is larger than Dallas the same way Jacksonville is larger than Miami or that Louisville is larger than Atlanta. The city propers have more people but also encompass much larger land areas. The city of San Antonio has 25% more land to work with. That's why city proper stats are useless. Even with out Fort Worth and it's burbs, the Dallas area is around 4.5 million which is roughly twice as large as the San Antonio area.

Well said. Don't know why this item keeps coming back. Gets tiring to hear this same thing again and again off actual context. San Antonio will never get a DFW sized airport period.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 15):
Given the growing ties between India and DFW coupled with the fact that DFW has the fastest growing Indian community in the US per capita (having passed Houston and Atlanta in the last decade) and the fact that AA canned ORD-DEL ( which was popular here) this flight is poised for success.

I can't help but think this route will succeed. I already know 2 people from the Dallas area that have flown the DFW non stop and a couple more that have bookings in the immediate future. Makes me wonder if KLM will really come back. People in general are excited about EK... KLM never had that wow factor that EK jsut seems to illicit for some reason... inspite of 10 abreast in coach.
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ojas
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:58 pm

Also one must not forget the significant population of Pakistani origin who reside in DFW. For whom EK is a one stop option to KHI which no other airline provides.
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LAXDESI
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:01 pm

Quoting ojas (Reply 17):
Also one must not forget the significant population of Pakistani origin who reside in DFW. For whom EK is a one stop option to KHI which no other airline provides.

Add to that Indian American population of over 100,000 in Dallas area(MSA). My rule of thumb suggests demand for over 100,000 seats on DFW-India routes. EK is well positioned to garner a large chunk of this demand with its extensive network to India via Dubai.
 
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AA777223
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:23 pm

Quoting DariusBieber (Reply 10):
A common misconception. In fact, San Antonio is a bigger city than Dallas. The metropolitan area with Fort Worth is what makes DFW a major hub.

Not this again...

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 11):
Most don't take in account individual city size. Yeah Dallas itself is around 1.2M whereas San Antonio is around 1.3M...but the D/FW metro area is at almost 6.4M compared to San Antonio at 2.1M. When most people say "Dallas" they typically mean the entire area, like in most cases when referring to an area - go with the biggest city. Not many are going to break it down to include Plano, Arlington, Irving, and such unless they are go to the area quite often or are local.
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 15):
Most don't take in account individual city size. Yeah Dallas itself is around 1.2M whereas San Antonio is around 1.3M...but the D/FW metro area is at almost 6.4M compared to San Antonio at 2.1M. When most people say "Dallas" they typically mean the entire area, like in most cases when referring to an area - go with the biggest city. Not many are going to break it down to include Plano, Arlington, Irving, and such unless they are go to the area quite often or are local.
Quoting jr (Reply 16):
Most don't take in account individual city size. Yeah Dallas itself is around 1.2M whereas San Antonio is around 1.3M...but the D/FW metro area is at almost 6.4M compared to San Antonio at 2.1M. When most people say "Dallas" they typically mean the entire area, like in most cases when referring to an area - go with the biggest city. Not many are going to break it down to include Plano, Arlington, Irving, and such unless they are go to the area quite often or are local.
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 18):
Most don't take in account individual city size. Yeah Dallas itself is around 1.2M whereas San Antonio is around 1.3M...but the D/FW metro area is at almost 6.4M compared to San Antonio at 2.1M. When most people say "Dallas" they typically mean the entire area, like in most cases when referring to an area - go with the biggest city. Not many are going to break it down to include Plano, Arlington, Irving, and such unless they are go to the area quite often or are local.

As all these guys well stated, you gotta check out the MSA numbers, not to mention the business connections that make this route a slam dunk.
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ojas
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:02 pm

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 18):
Add to that Indian American population of over 100,000 in Dallas area(MSA). My rule of thumb suggests demand for over 100,000 seats on DFW-India routes. EK is well positioned to garner a large chunk of this demand with its extensive network to India via Dubai.

Yes of course, it's not and add on but the first thing that is taken care of ... that is connections to India. Although this flight will connect well in both directions to BOM, DEL, MAA, HYD, CCJ; connects only in one direction to DAC, CCU and does not connect to COK, TRV, AMD, BLR, ISB, LHE, PEW, DAC.
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IrishAyes
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:06 pm

The futile San Antonio vs. Dallas arguments is getting painful to read at this point. It needs to be dropped.

Quoting jr (Reply 16):
KLM never had that wow factor that EK jsut seems to illicit for some reason... inspite of 10 abreast in coach.

Funny how true this is. My guess would be that EK is a newer airline, and only flies to four other US destinations aside from DFW, whereas KLM has flown to many points in the western hemisphere over a longer period of time. Plus, it is DFW's first nonstop link with the Middle East, which is unprecedented compared to Europe.
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yellowtail
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:21 pm

EK also does a helluva job getting the word out to the target markets in the respective cities. It is something most carriers should try to emulate.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
aznmadsci
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:24 am

Quoting migair54 (Reply 14):
Singapore airlines is also reducing the SIN-DME-IAH

I just recently took SQ on SIN-DME-IAH and I did not see anyone continuing on to the Indian Subcontinent. J was definitely full both ways. In Y, the majority of the passengers were Vietnamese with just a handful of Russian passengers going to either Houston or Singapore.
The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:29 am

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 21):
The futile San Antonio vs. Dallas arguments is getting painful to read at this point. It needs to be dropped.

Agreed, these Texas, pissing matches get really old after a while, especially when they sway the conversation away from the original subject.
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
Pbb152
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:42 am

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 23):
I just recently took SQ on SIN-DME-IAH and I did not see anyone continuing on to the Indian Subcontinent. J was definitely full both ways. In Y, the majority of the passengers were Vietnamese with just a handful of Russian passengers going to either Houston or Singapore.

That flight does not target the Indian subcontinent at all. I would not expect you to see any pax going there.
 
blink182
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:21 am

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 22):
EK also does a helluva job getting the word out to the target markets in the respective cities. It is something most carriers should try to emulate.

Especially by advertising on anything they can get their hands on. Frankly, I'm shocked they haven't bought the naming rights to any stadiums in the US like they have elsewhere in the world. EK in this sense is very similar to FR albeit on the opposite end of the spectrum. As for KL, I kid you not: the only publicity I've ever seen KL give Dallas is to mention it on an airsickness bag a few years ago.

Veering back to the topic, what happens to IAH now that DFW has a flight? IAH used to be on the "when the A380 gets enough range" shortlist. Is that still the case? What about a 77W upgrade with some weight restrictions like LAX? Or, does DFW cannibalize IAH and force IAH to stay at 77L for the foreseeable future?
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
tayser
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:51 am

Quoting DariusBieber (Reply 10):
A common misconception. In fact, San Antonio is a bigger city than Dallas. The metropolitan area with Fort Worth is what makes DFW a major hub.

The City of Melbourne is under 100,000 yet the metro is over 4.1 million. The City of Sydney is under 200,000 and the metro is over 4.6 million. Of course we're talking about the metro areas rather than the local councils!
 
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gdg9
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:00 am

What's the difference in seating between the EK 777-200LR and 777-300? A -300 came to DFW the other day as an equipment sub. I'm wondering if the route did well if that would be a perm. change perhaps?

If anyone has the reg of the EK 77W that came to DFW on Feb 6, please let me know! ACARS and libhomeradar are not helping. Thanks

[Edited 2012-02-07 20:22:24]

[Edited 2012-02-07 20:25:47]
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migair54
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:12 am

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 28):
What's the difference in seating between the EK 777-200LR and 777-300? A -300 came to DFW the other day as an equipment sub. I'm wondering if the route did well if that would be a perm. change perhaps?

B77L---8-42-236---- total...286

B77W--12-42-304--total...358 (assuiming B77W 3-class config)

I don´t thing they will keep the B77W for now... I would like to know what´s the weight restriction they have for the route if they use the B77W dep DXB and dep DFW.

Quoting blink182 (Reply 26):
IAH used to be on the "when the A380 gets enough range" shortlist.

The problem is the cargo, if the route is good with cargo and good loads of pax they will face the problems of uplifting all the cargo and all the pax at the same time.
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:35 am

Quoting emirates202 (Thread starter):
I read in an article that EK is just once daily out of IAH due to Dallas.

Yes, when the new DFW service was announced it was publicly stated that one of the daily IAH flights was getting cut so as to fund aircraft for the route.

Quoting emirates202 (Thread starter):
I didn't believe it at first, but it is true.

What is so hard to believe? The DFW Metroplex was the most prominent U.S. market lacking a nonstop link to the Middle East. In terms of GMP (gross metropolitan product) it was the largest metropolitan economy without such service, and in terms of population it was the second largest U.S. market without such service (behind Greater Boston*).

*Keep in mind that "Greater Boston" has a smaller economy, includes far-flung areas like Providence, Manchester, and Worcester that readily use alternate local airports, and the simple fact that BOS has yet to prove an ability to support any intercontinental service beyond Europe. DFW supports nonstop service to all inhabited continents but Africa, and that includes intercontinental service on carriers not affiliated with AA and its hub feed, like LH and KE.

Quoting emirates202 (Thread starter):
It shows on the EK website only 1 daily flight IAH-DXB. Do you think it was a good idea?

Absolutely. It is one thing to offer secondary frequencies to the primary U.S. markets of JFK and LAX, and quite another to do the same to IAH. To put it bluntly, Houston is not only much less populous than those markets but simply a far less important/popular/attractive destination from a global perspective.

Quoting emirates202 (Thread starter):
I thought they were doing well out of IAH.

I imagine they are - plenty of oil industry execs up front and VFR traffic bound for the Indian Subcontinent in the back. Their performance will only improve as the redundant capacity has been eliminated, likely allowing EK to not just enjoy much higher loads but also charge higher fares.

However, keep in mind that EK added IAH back when the airport was just seeing service to the Americas, Europe, and Japan. After EK came in we saw high quality competitors QR and SQ add competing eastbound flights to popular oil industry hubs, while UA/CO decided to start up nonstop flights to LOS. This is on top of all the established services on European carriers - all three alliances maintain great options from IAH to Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and Indian Subcontinent via LHR, CDG, AMS, and FRA respectively.

Compare that to DFW, where I believe oneworld offers the ONLY daily intercontinental options (Star carrier LH and SkyTeam carrier KE are both operating less than daily IIRC and SkyTeam carrier KL is seasonal - if they even intend to resume DFW service at all). EK can break what is on some days a oneworld monopoly, without having to worry about aggressive responses from a conservative (especially when it comes to the Eastern hemisphere) bankrupt AA. All while serving a market that is less competitive but just about as big, wealthy, and important as Houston.

Quoting emirates202 (Thread starter):
The only flight now is the evening one, not the morning one. Any ideas if they're gonna bring it back? Maybe with a A380?

Several news articles have suggested that EK is working with Airbus to get the A380 flying from DXB to Western U.S. markets (including IAH) with an acceptable/profitable payload. Should IAH get A380 service, they'll probably upgrade the current daily flight first, and then add back the second frequency down the line once the larger A380 is regularly going out full.
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hohd
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:46 pm

EK does have some competition at DFW. BA flies to many destinations that EK does and LH flies 6 times a week (near daily serive). But AA would probably welcome EK, they will get some interline connection traffic from EK's service.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:39 am

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 30):
After EK came in we saw high quality competitors QR and SQ add competing eastbound flights to popular oil industry hubs, while UA/CO decided to start up nonstop flights to LOS.

That is, IMHO, the root cause of why EK was willing to pull an aircraft from IAH to service DFW.


Lightsaber
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gdg9
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:48 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 29):
B77L---8-42-236---- total...286

B77W--12-42-304--total...358 (assuiming B77W 3-class config)

Thanks Mig!
@dfwtower
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:56 pm

Quoting hohd (Reply 31):
But AA would probably welcome EK, they will get some interline connection traffic from EK's service.

They're going to want to keep every last passenger on oneworld possible; I assume they'll close off as much interline traffic to EK as possible.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
sq_ek_freak
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RE: Emirates Only Once Daily From Houston Now?

Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:58 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 21):
Funny how true this is. My guess would be that EK is a newer airline, and only flies to four other US destinations aside from DFW, whereas KLM has flown to many points in the western hemisphere over a longer period of time. Plus, it is DFW's first nonstop link with the Middle East, which is unprecedented compared to Europe.

EK's marketing machine is a force to be reckoned with.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 22):
EK also does a helluva job getting the word out to the target markets in the respective cities. It is something most carriers should try to emulate.

Wholeheartedly agree.

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 28):
What's the difference in seating between the EK 777-200LR and 777-300? A -300 came to DFW the other day as an equipment sub. I'm wondering if the route did well if that would be a perm. change perhaps?

Equipment sub. Most likely the 77W would also take a penalty versus the 77L.

Quoting hohd (Reply 31):
EK does have some competition at DFW. BA flies to many destinations that EK does

Unfortunately for BA, transit regulations at Heathrow regarding visas for people holding certain passports hurts them in this regard. Even if it is an airside transfer, I believe transit visas are sometimes needed.
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