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PM
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600th GE90 777 Flies

Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:29 am

If my records are correct, C/N 41049 Line No. 992 (a 777-368ER for Saudi Arabian) which had its first flight on Friday was the 600th 777 to fly with the GE90.

That is no small achievent!

For the record, 167 777s have PW4000s and 226 have RR T800s.

GE took the lead (from RR) in 2006 with Line No. 577 (a 777-300ER for JAL) and have never looked back.
 
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zkojq
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RE: 600th GE90 777 Flies

Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:36 am

Quoting PM (Thread starter):
For the record, 167 777s have PW4000s and 226 have RR T800s.

Where did you get that information? I'm just curious.

Quoting PM (Thread starter):
GE took the lead (from RR) in 2006 with Line No. 577 (a 777-300ER for JAL) and have never looked back.

I guess that is what happens when an engine manufacturer gets exclusivity on an aircraft type (77L, 77W and 77F in this case). Congratulations to GE, anyway.
First to fly the 787-9 with Air New Zealand and ZK-NZE (2014-10-09, NZ103)
 
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PM
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RE: 600th GE90 777 Flies

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:05 am

Quoting zkojq (Reply 1):

Where did you get that information? I'm just curious.

There are various sources but the most reliable must be Boeing's own website. Go to:

Boeing Home / Commercial Airplanes / About Commercial Airplanes / Orders and Deliveries / User Defined Reports

And list all 777s delivered to date.
 
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GSPFlyer
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RE: 600th GE90 777 Flies

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:59 am

Quoting zkojq (Reply 1):
I guess that is what happens when an engine manufacturer gets exclusivity on an aircraft type (77L, 77W and 77F in this case).



Aren't the A340-500/600 the direct competitors to the 77L and 77W? That are only available with RR engines? I don't want to start a pissing match, but I do have a few questions regarding this...I know GE and Boeing agreed to risk sharing on the 77L and 77W, did Airbus and RR have a similar agreement for the A340-500/600? Are the 340-500/600 RR-only because the 77W/77L are GE exclusive, or Vice-Versa?

Anyways, congrats to Boeing and GE.
 
SASMD82
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RE: 600th GE90 777 Flies

Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:00 am

Thanks PM, great statistics again!  

Congratz for GE with this achievement, although I have never understood why the upgrated RR engine (which was even more powerful than the GE90) was not offered......
 
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RE: 600th GE90 777 Flies

Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:05 am

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 3):
Are the 340-500/600 RR-only because the 77W/77L are GE exclusive, or Vice-Versa?

It's a slightly complicated story but the short answer is 'no'. GE demanded and got exclusivity on the 777NG. RR demanded no such exclusivilty but neither GE nor PW offered an engine for the A340NG.

So GE paid for exclusivity and RR got it for free. But we know who had the last laugh...  
 
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zkojq
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RE: 600th GE90 777 Flies

Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:57 am

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 3):
Aren't the A340-500/600 the direct competitors to the 77L and 77W? That are only available with RR engines? I don't want to start a pissing match, but I do have a few questions regarding this...I know GE and Boeing agreed to risk sharing on the 77L and 77W, did Airbus and RR have a similar agreement for the A340-500/600? Are the 340-500/600 RR-only because the 77W/77L are GE exclusive, or Vice-Versa?

Sorry, I didn't intend to be provocative. I just take the view that engine manufacturer exclusivity is bad for competition, whether it be on the Boeing 737 (CFM56/CFM Leap-X), Boeing 77W/L/F (GE90-110/115), Airbus A350-1000 (Rolls Royce Trent XWB) or the McDonnell Douglas MD-90 (IAE V2500). When there is competition between several manufacturers for a sales of engines on a certain aircraft type, there is increased pressure on them to develop performance improvement packages which lower fuelburn aswell as other operating costs for the airlines.

Quoting PM (Reply 5):
RR demanded no such exclusivilty but neither GE nor PW offered an engine for the A340NG.

I believe that the same happened with the A340-200/300; after IAE halted development of their 'Superfan', CFM was the only manufacturer who offered engines for the program. Thus all A340 classics have CFM engines.

Quoting PM (Reply 2):
There are various sources but the most reliable must be Boeing's own website. Go to:

Boeing Home / Commercial Airplanes / About Commercial Airplanes / Orders and Deliveries / User Defined Reports

And list all 777s delivered to date.

Thanks, PM.
First to fly the 787-9 with Air New Zealand and ZK-NZE (2014-10-09, NZ103)
 
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PM
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RE: 600th GE90 777 Flies

Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:37 am

Quoting zkojq (Reply 6):
Thus all A340 classics have CFM engines.

Quite similar, yes.

And, let's not forget, apart from the -1000 (and that's a recent development), RR have no official exclusivity on the A350.

(Just de facto exclusivity!      )
 
GCPET
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RE: 600th GE90 777 Flies

Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:59 am

An astonishing engine! Not going to be too long till it reaches 1000!

GCPET
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AA737-823
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RE: 600th GE90 777 Flies

Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:38 am

Quoting zkojq (Reply 6):
I just take the view that engine manufacturer exclusivity is bad for competition

While I generally agree, there are other complicating factors. For GE to foot the development cost of the most powerful turbine engine ever built, they wanted to be completely certain that Boeing was going to make it worth their while.
There WAS competition, it simply began and ended BEFORE the plane was built.
Boeing has publicly stated that they will never offer three engine choices on an airframe again, because of the headaches of offering Pratt, Rolls, and GenE power on the original 777s. Too many choices, too many variables, so it looks like it'll be a max offering of one or the other going forward.

And, GE offered the best product. Or at least, the best set of compromises. The 777-2LR was going to be a niche aircraft from the get-go; there are not enough examples of that bird to warrant any other company going to the expense of making an engine for it. And I don't think anyone foresaw the success of the 777-3ER. Though Boeing's marketing idiots will undoubtedly tell you they did...
 
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zkojq
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RE: 600th GE90 777 Flies

Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:59 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 9):
Boeing has publicly stated that they will never offer three engine choices on an airframe again, because of the headaches of offering Pratt, Rolls, and GenE power on the original 777s. Too many choices, too many variables, so it looks like it'll be a max offering of one or the other going forward.

That is new to me. How long ago was it announced? It sounds risky. If the engine that has exclusivity misses fuel burn targets by too greater margin, like the Pratt & Whitney PW6000 did, customers could/would cancel orders and buy another aircraft type instead.
First to fly the 787-9 with Air New Zealand and ZK-NZE (2014-10-09, NZ103)
 
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EPA001
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RE: 600th GE90 777 Flies

Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:15 pm

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 4):
Thanks PM, great statistics again!  

I second that.  .

Quoting PM (Reply 7):
And, let's not forget, apart from the -1000 (and that's a recent development), RR have no official exclusivity on the A350

Which we sometimes easily forget, also in discussions here.  .

Quoting GCPET (Reply 8):
An astonishing engine! Not going to be too long till it reaches 1000!

It is a truly phenomenal and remarkable achievement. Credit is due where it is due. Congrats to Boeing and GE for this great result. Just saw an EK B77W close-up at HAM last week. It remains a very impressive and beautiful bird to see.  .
 
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par13del
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RE: 600th GE90 777 Flies

Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:43 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 6):
I just take the view that engine manufacturer exclusivity is bad for competition,

In today's environment, this to some degree is irrelevant, engines are not cheap and are a significant investment when purchased, airlines do not change a/c on a 2% improvement of frame and or engine performance, so from the point of engine makers making improvements over time it really only affects new purchases, those who already have the product can expect improvements over time.
Competitions as mentioned by another poster, takes place before the a/c is designed.
 
co772
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RE: 600th GE90 777 Flies

Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:55 pm

Nothing like hearing the GE90 spool up!
 
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BreninTW
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RE: 600th GE90 777 Flies

Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:48 am

Quoting zkojq (Reply 10):
It sounds risky. If the engine that has exclusivity misses fuel burn targets by too greater margin, like the Pratt & Whitney PW6000 did, customers could/would cancel orders and buy another aircraft type instead.

That's not what AA737-823 said...

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 9):
Boeing has publicly stated that they will never offer three engine choices on an airframe again

Emphasis mine.

Boeing will offer two engines (if available) ... but not three. As on the 787, customers have a choice: RR or GE (no PW offering). For future families of aircraft, PW, GE and RR will be invited to submit designs, and two of the three will get on the aicraft.
 
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ssteve
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RE: 600th GE90 777 Flies

Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:23 am

Quoting par13del (Reply 12):
Quoting zkojq (Reply 6):
I just take the view that engine manufacturer exclusivity is bad for competition,

In today's environment, this to some degree is irrelevant, engines are not cheap and are a significant investment when


You can also argue that competition is somewhat antithetical to pouring development money into a new engine.
 
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Stitch
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RE: 600th GE90 777 Flies

Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:36 am

When you consider the financial failure the GE90 was on the 772/77E program (they spent USD 2 billion to develop a brand new engine and came in 3rd of 3 in terms of sales), McNerney convincing the GE board to let him make Boeing a better offer than Rolls or Pratt to win an exclusive paid off quite handsomely.
 
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zkojq
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RE: 600th GE90 777 Flies

Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:40 am

Quoting BreninTW (Reply 14):
Emphasis mine.

Boeing will offer two engines (if available) ... but not three. As on the 787, customers have a choice: RR or GE (no PW offering). For future families of aircraft, PW, GE and RR will be invited to submit designs, and two of the three will get on the aicraft.

That makes a lot more sense. Thankyou for clarifying.

Quoting co772 (Reply 13):
Nothing like hearing the GE90 spool up!

   I couldn't agree more  
First to fly the 787-9 with Air New Zealand and ZK-NZE (2014-10-09, NZ103)
 
jfk777
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RE: 600th GE90 777 Flies

Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:27 pm

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 3):
Aren't the A340-500/600 the direct competitors to the 77L and 77W? That are only available with RR engines? I don't want to start a pissing match, but I do have a few questions regarding this...I know GE and Boeing agreed to risk sharing on the 77L and 77W, did Airbus and RR have a similar agreement for the A340-500/600? Are the 340-500/600 RR-only because the 77W/77L are GE exclusive, or Vice-Versa?

YES

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