jetfuel
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Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:36 am

Very unhappy about this

The scanners will be rolled out at eight international gateway airports in Adelaide, Brisbane, Cairns, Gold Coast, Melbourne, Perth and Sydney.

The proposed Aviation Security Amendment (Screening) Bill 2012 will make it mandatory for any passenger selected to participate in undergoing a body scan. The "no scan, no fly" amendment closes a loophole in the legislation, which allows passengers to request a pat-down instead of having to pass through a metal detector. Transport Minister Anthony Albanese said mandatory body scans were necessary to ensure the safety of airports.


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/a...frfq80-1226262838340#ixzz1lYd7ynnQ
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
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shamrock604
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:39 am

Quoting jetfuel (Thread starter):
Very unhappy about this

The scanners will be rolled out at eight international gateway airports in Adelaide, Brisbane, Cairns, Gold Coast, Melbourne, Perth and Sydney.

The proposed Aviation Security Amendment (Screening) Bill 2012 will make it mandatory for any passenger selected to participate in undergoing a body scan. The "no scan, no fly" amendment closes a loophole in the legislation, which allows passengers to request a pat-down instead of having to pass through a metal detector. Transport Minister Anthony Albanese said mandatory body scans were necessary to ensure the safety of airports.

Oh well. Shant be going to Australia on holidays again then. Shame, as it's a lovely place.
 
jetfuel
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:47 am

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 1):
Oh well. Shant be going to Australia on holidays again then. Shame, as it's a lovely place.

Exactly my concern.... I wouldnt travel to anywhere if there was no opt out for a full body search either
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
dc9northwest
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:50 am

Too bad Australian legislators are stuck in 1859 and believe everyone is a criminal...

Anyway, I have this to reply to the thread: learn how to dress appropriately for security, following a skit done by The Chaser:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3grHjibNdA

Full-Body indeed.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:52 am

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 1):
Oh well. Shant be going to Australia on holidays again then. Shame, as it's a lovely place.

I'm all for civil rights and against these scanners and all, but isn't this a bit of an overreaction?

Any way, boo to this decision. I'm surprised Australia is doing this. Australia is cool and everyone loves them, who'd want to attack them? 
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cam747
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:06 am

I don't have a problem with this at all. A pat down search is no where near as effective as a full body scan, so of course someone trying to hide something is going to refuse a full body scan. Giving people an option of refusal makes the whole system useless.

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 1):
Oh well. Shant be going to Australia on holidays again then. Shame, as it's a lovely place.

Really?? I just don't understand this way of thinking. You'd really change your holiday plans on the basis of whether there are body scanners at the airport?..... I really think full body scans are very quickly going to become the norm at airports all around the world, so you'd better get in some travelling now before that happens - or get used to boat travel.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:10 am

It's a shame to see knee-jerk reactions like this pushed through from a 'security' angle.

Everytime someone tells me that 'we mustn't let the terrorists win' I point to meaningless actions such as this as proof that it is too late, they have already won.
 
aeroblogger
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:12 am

Does Australia use the Millimeter Wave scanners or the Backscatter X-Ray scanners? I refuse to go through Backscatters because many members of my family are convinced that they give cancer (they're MDs, I'm not - who am I to argue?), but Millimeter Wave scanners aren't much of a problem at all...
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stratosphere
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:14 am

Quoting cam747 (Reply 6):
I don't have a problem with this at all. A pat down search is no where near as effective as a full body scan, so of course someone trying to hide something is going to refuse a full body scan. Giving people an option of refusal makes the whole system useless.

Well at MEM airport I went through the body scanner and had a tissue in my pocket and got a pat down anyway so what good is it. I know a guy who works for the company that developed these body scanners and he wont go through them when he flies.
 
Gemuser
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:19 am

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 8):
Does Australia use the Millimeter Wave scanners or the Backscatter X-Ray scanners?

The OP's linked article says "radio wave" scanners. Make of that what you will! Logically you'd assume that there not X-Ray, but with journalists who knows?

Gemuser
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cam747
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:24 am

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 9):
Well at MEM airport I went through the body scanner and had a tissue in my pocket and got a pat down anyway so what good is it. I know a guy who works for the company that developed these body scanners and he wont go through them when he flies.

Did he give a reason as to why he doesn't want to use them?
 
Quokkas
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:33 am

I haven't been able to read the bill as it hasn't been introduced and isn't yet posted on Parliament's web site but the newspaper article suggests that scanning will not be mandatory for all passengers (only those selected) and will be installed at international airports. No mention of domestic airports. It is refreshing to think that terrorists would never dream of targeting a domestic flight.  

But I await the actual contents of the bill to see what happens. Also be interesting to see if Abbott and the Greens oppose it or whether it gets through on the nod.
“Not to laugh, not to cry, not to hate, but understand.” Spinoza
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:37 am

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 12):
It is refreshing to think that terrorists would never dream of targeting a domestic flight.

I know, that just shows how poorly thought out this is. After all, the 11 September terrorists targetted domestic flights rather than international flights.
 
Skydrol
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:38 am

Quoting jetfuel (Thread starter):
Transport Minister Anthony Albanese said mandatory body scans were necessary to ensure the safety of airports.

Safety of airports?? What does the transport minister think of the guy getting airside at Perth and giving VH-QQA a new paint scheme, and being filmed doing it for a YouTube upload?



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XT6Wagon
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:11 am

So the question is, If your not from Australia, and you refuse the scanner on your return trip... What exactly is thier plan? You can't leave because you're a "security risk", but you can't stay since clearly you're a "security risk" (also visa expires)
 
jetfuel
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:13 am

The difference between Australians and Americans is Australians roll over for government. Americans would never in a millions years stand for being robbed of the pat down option. The American press would not even call the pat down option a 'loop hole' as has been said here, it is seen as equivalent to the scan. There is much controversy in the US about the radiation from these scanners and effects on health, here, Australians just roll over. They are already being removed in airports in Europe because of safety concerns


Airport scanners that 'strip' passengers naked are banned over fears they cause cancer
EU introduces ban while danger of X-ray machines is fully assessed
Radiation experts first warned of the risks 13 years ago
Millions of passengers forced to pass through scanners worldwide
Manchester told it can use its 16 scanners for another year
Cancer risk highest in the U.S. where there are 250 machines

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rs-cause-cancer.html#ixzz1lZ1anQCQ


On November 14, 2011 the European Commission banned X-ray body scanners that use "backscatter" technology from airports.The scanners, which are still in use in the United States, project X-ray beams onto your body using ionizing radiation to create a detailed reflection of your body that is displayed on a monitor viewed by a remotely located officer.

http://emf.mercola.com/sites/emf/arc...rope-bans-x-ray-body-scanners.aspx
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
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shamrock604
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:16 am

Quoting cam747 (Reply 5):

Yes, yes I would change my holiday plans. The reason is because I object to allowing such an intrusive procedure. I do not consider it fair to impose this and this is my way of showing my displeasure. I do have a choice of where to holiday, and given Australia's rather lengthy and convuluted arrival procedures, i'm not up for putting up with this bullshit on departure too.

Step too far. That's my protest. Sorry if you don't agree.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:22 am

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 14):
So the question is, If your not from Australia, and you refuse the scanner on your return trip... What exactly is thier plan?


That is an excellent question, and one which again proves that what a half-baked idea this is. Why do governments not think things through before passing these sort of measures.
 
bcworld
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:33 am

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 11):
It is refreshing to think that terrorists would never dream of targeting a domestic flight.

Yup, in the same way that liquids are only a security concern on international flights. Domestic? Take what you like!
 
cam747
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:22 am

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 16):
Yes, yes I would change my holiday plans. The reason is because I object to allowing such an intrusive procedure. I do not consider it fair to impose this and this is my way of showing my displeasure. I do have a choice of where to holiday, and given Australia's rather lengthy and convuluted arrival procedures, i'm not up for putting up with this bullshit on departure too.

Step too far. That's my protest. Sorry if you don't agree.


Don't apologise - you have the right to protest about any issue you choose. I think its a fairly minor issue and imposition, but if you think its more than that, then hey...protest away.

It's just a shame we won't be able to welcome you back to our fine shores again any time soon.
 
Quokkas
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:25 am

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 14):

So the question is, If your not from Australia, and you refuse the scanner on your return trip.

I suppose that you could be detained and interviewed in more private surroundings where you may be offered the opportunity to undergo a strip search. I imagine it is the same as refusing a request to undergo the explosives test: you say no, you don't fly.

Passengers who become argumentative, abusive or physically aggressive can be refused permission to fly, may be arrested by the AFP and charged. This could result in a fine or imprisonment if convicted of an offence. You may additionally be liable for the costs of deportation if you choose to overstay your visa rather than comply with a lawful request. It's all very unpleasant, I agree.

In practice it may be up to the discretion of the security supervisor on duty at the time. Better check-in early so as not to arrive too late at the departure gate.  
Quoting bcworld (Reply 18):
Domestic? Take what you like!

Yes, it doesn't make sense but apparently the decision was made on grounds of a cost/ benefit analysis. The restrictions on liquids at international airports was largely based on requirements for travel in the EU and the US.
“Not to laugh, not to cry, not to hate, but understand.” Spinoza
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:37 am

I don't go through these devilish scanners. I not really going to AUS anytime soon anyway, but.... Nah. I'd act like a fool at the checkpoint. I'm not about to be irradiated just to go home.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
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RWA380
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:54 am

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 1):
Oh well. Shant be going to Australia on holidays again then. Shame, as it's a lovely place.
Quoting jetfuel (Reply 2):
Exactly my concern.... I wouldnt travel to anywhere if there was no opt out for a full body search either
Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 16):
Yes, yes I would change my holiday plans. The reason is because I object to allowing such an intrusive procedure. I do not consider it fair to impose this and this is my way of showing my displeasure. I do have a choice of where to holiday, and given Australia's rather lengthy and convuluted arrival procedures, i'm not up for putting up with this bullshit on departure too

So somebody sees your weiner, I'd much rather that, than be blown out of the sky by a bomb. I think it's too bad that ya'll would want to avoid a great place just because of that. But I totally support your right to feel the way you do and express it, but I personally can care less if they want to see my junk, so be it. I'm not going to change my plans to avoid being body scanned.
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mal787
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:55 am

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought these scanners only showed metalic items on your body and not your "family jewels" etc? I can't realy see an issue with them and how many times are you likely to get called up even if you are a real frequent flier? And you could also fly into/ out of Darwin as they are not going to get them so if you can handle a LCC from a crap airport there is your answer


mal787
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cam747
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:10 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 22):
So somebody sees your weiner, I'd much rather that, than be blown out of the sky by a bomb. I think it's too bad that ya'll would want to avoid a great place just because of that. But I totally support your right to feel the way you do and express it, but I personally can care less if they want to see my junk, so be it. I'm not going to change my plans to avoid being body scanned.

LOL. They have developed technology so that all the operator sees is a stick figure. No wieners. No boobies. Just stick figures and bombs.  
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:20 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 22):
So somebody sees your weiner, I'd much rather that, than be blown out of the sky by a bomb. I think it's too bad that ya'll would want to avoid a great place just because of that. But I totally support your right to feel the way you do and express it, but I personally can care less if they want to see my junk, so be it. I'm not going to change my plans to avoid being body scanned.

To me it's not even about that. I'd rather pull my d*** out and show everybody. I'd rather be blown out of the sky. Don't affront my liberties, of which being viewn naked is one. 'Terrorism' is overblown anyway. Very few people have been/will be blown out of the sky.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
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RWA380
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:39 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 25):
Very few people have been/will be blown out of the sky.

You are correct, but for those few people whose time hasn't come, if this could change the course of that happening, I'm willing to go with it.

Quoting cam747 (Reply 24):
LOL. They have developed technology so that all the operator sees is a stick figure. No wieners. No boobies. Just stick figures and bombs.

Yeah, I kind of knew that, I was acting some what ignorant to make my point. I think it's best said as "we're not in Kansas any more Toto". Things are never going to be the same EVER again, the days of travelling and not showing ID, flying under false pretenses, ill gotten tickets are gone. We will need to adjust as a society at some point, as it's currently being forced upon us, and it's new, people will naturally resist, at some future point, our kids and grand children will not know of a world where body scanning or some future equivelent is quite accepted, and routine, and it won't even be questioned.
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Gemuser
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:39 am

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 14):
So the question is, If your not from Australia, and you refuse the scanner on your return trip... What exactly is thier plan? You can't leave because you're a "security risk", but you can't stay since clearly you're a "security risk" (also visa expires)

No problem at all. You are forced through the scanner if not going through means you overstay your visa. Otherwise you don't fly. If you are visa expired you have no right to refuse normal governmnt procdures. We have NO Bill of Rights, ALL your rights are subject to the will of Parliment, unfortunately.

Gemuser
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Pellegrine
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:44 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 27):
No problem at all. You are forced through the scanner if not going through means you overstay your visa. Otherwise you don't fly. If you are visa expired you have no right to refuse normal governmnt procdures. We have NO Bill of Rights, ALL your rights are subject to the will of Parliment, unfortunately.

Try to put me through the scanner against my will and I will destroy it. What exactly are your Australian goons going to do then? I'm playing devil's advocate. But I have not gone through a voodoo machine worldwide yet, and I will not. So what are they going to do?
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
koruman
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:50 am

One of the problems will be that Australian airport security use highly simplistic racial profiling.

I look kind of Spanish or Italian, and I fly on probably 40 domestic flights in Australia each year and a dozen international ones, as well as double that number in the USA.

On Australian domestic flights last year only twice was I NOT singled out for an extra explosive check, so 38/40 times I was. In the USA I wasn't singled out for any additional security at all.

If Australia's security contractors continue to use their existing forms of profiling - "this person is dark, maybe they're an Arab" then this will end in lawsuits I would imagine.
 
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RWA380
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:50 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 28):
But I have not gone through a voodoo machine worldwide yet, and I will not. So what are they going to do?

I'm just curious why you'd be ok with a full body pat down, but not with a machine generated image? I'm not questioning your choice one way or another, just curious.   
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BoeingVista
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:51 am

Quoting cam747 (Reply 5):
I don't have a problem with this at all. A pat down search is no where near as effective as a full body scan, so of course someone trying to hide something is going to refuse a full body scan. Giving people an option of refusal makes the whole system useless.

I'm sorry, have we had a large number of attackers who have passed through the pat down process in Australia and gone on to bring down aircraft? or a small number? or any at all..

We are gripped by a hysterical security culture that is costing us a fortune and eroding our civil rights. When they get round to doing the obvious things like screening ALL freight then maybe just maybe I'll allow them to microwave my gonads before I get on a flight, until then no deal   

The government press release contains the following gem

Quote:
allow screening officers to assume implied consent for certain screening procedures when a person approaches the screening point for the purposes of receiving clearance to pass through the screening point

Allow to assume implied consent? My my... Governing would be so much easier if we allowed the state "to assume our implied consent", we don't do this for good reason because that would strip us of all our rights.

[Edited 2012-02-05 03:00:10]

[Edited 2012-02-05 03:00:43]
BV
 
ozglobal
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:54 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 4):
I'm surprised Australia is doing this. Australia is cool and everyone loves them, who'd want to attack them? 

Major home grown Islamic plots to kill hundreds have been intercepted in recent years. One or two a year, similar to the UK. Recent immigration has been disproportionately from Islamic countries. Political correctness has meant immams preaching hatred of mainstream Australian society have been dealt with VERY ineffectively (softly, softly approach). So the threat is real. The response is another subject.

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 3):
Too bad Australian legislators are stuck in 1859 and believe everyone is a criminal...

Hmm, nasty comment. I think these scans are unfortunate, but would submit if there was a good case that it was necessary from a risk management point of view. Unfortunately, most airport security is nothing but 'security theatre', designed for the mass consumption to make people 'feel safe' and to cover the back sides of those accountable. The only REALLY serious security I have ever been subjected to was at SFO, where I was subject to an additional 45 mms of in depth procedures when an American BA agent decided I was suspicious apparently because, according to her, I was on a "one way ticket" from SFO to LHR. In fact, as she could easily have seen with 10 seconds effort on her screen, I was on a BA sold OW RTW ticket as I politely insisted. This only made me more of a threat apparently and so she stamped the four red "SSSS" on the boarding pass. I was subjected to extremely strict control, where I was not to speak or move at any point without being told to, pass through a full body explosives trace detector (no objection, not x-ray), had all my possessions unpacked and questioned about each, whilst being forbidden to touch any. I only caught my flight because I had arrived well ahead of time. No opt out of any of this was allowed.

Now my question, to those condemning Australia for mandatory SELECTIVE additional screening, not that I particularly support full body x-ray, where is your outrage for the US practice of mandatory selective additional screening, please?
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:58 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 30):
I'm just curious why you'd be ok with a full body pat down, but not with a machine generated image? I'm not questioning your choice one way or another, just curious.

I love being physically molested.

Actually I don't like this radiation concern. It's very peculiar to me. I don't have problems with natural sources of radiation or nuclear power, whatever. But I will not expose myself to additional sources of radiation. I (in the past year) had 3 x-rays and I gave my doctors a VERY hard time about it. I do not believe in exposing oneself to additional electromagnetic waves. It IS a significant cancer risk, and it is not conducive to my beliefs.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
Quokkas
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:02 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 28):
Try to put me through the scanner against my will and I will destroy it. What exactly are your Australian goons going to do then?

You will miss your flight and the airline will happily let you forfeit your fare. Security will call the AFP and you will receive an all-expenses paid trip to the nearest place of detention. You will be charged with criminal damage and possibly other offences. You will be making an appearance in court. You will in all likelihood emerge from court with a criminal record and possible a prison sentence.

However, at present all of this is speculative as the bill hasn't been presented to Parliament, debated and passed to the Governor General for assent, let alone proclaimed. It remains to be seen if Abbott will oppose it in his ongoing effort to bring down Gillard, or whether the Greens oppose it on principal.
“Not to laugh, not to cry, not to hate, but understand.” Spinoza
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:07 am

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 34):
You will miss your flight and the airline will happily let you forfeit your fare. Security will call the AFP and you will receive an all-expenses paid trip to the nearest place of detention. You will be charged with criminal damage and possibly other offences. You will be making an appearance in court. You will in all likelihood emerge from court with a criminal record and possible a prison sentence.

However, at present all of this is speculative as the bill hasn't been presented to Parliament, debated and passed to the Governor General for assent, let alone proclaimed. It remains to be seen if Abbott will oppose it in his ongoing effort to bring down Gillard, or whether the Greens oppose it on principal.

I don't care about forfeiting a few dollars. I'll make an international incident and embarrass these little Australians. Puppets of the US and China anyway...

I'm not about to travel to places with these systems and regulations anyway. Just me. YMMV.

Want to go through the 'Batman' scanner, "you guys go."
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:15 am

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 34):
It remains to be seen if Abbott will oppose it in his ongoing effort to bring down Gillard, or whether the Greens oppose it on principal.

Or on the other hand Abbott could oppose it because he thinks it is a stupid and ill thought out idea and the Greens could oppose it for the same reason. Opposition to bad legislation doesn't always have to be based on a desire to 'bring down' anyone.
 
ozglobal
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:28 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 35):
I don't care about forfeiting a few dollars. I'll make an international incident and embarrass these little Australians. Puppets of the US and China anyway...

You don't seem to understand. Your proclaimed act of damaging the device will result in a criminal prosecution, just as it would in the US or other Western country. You may, as I would in the US, then be detained for an indeterminate period and receive a criminal record. The US state department is unlikely to show interest in your case and so it would be quite illusory to imagine you have the power to make this an "International Incident" rather than just what it is, a common criminal one.

Again, this is proposed as SELECTIVE additional screening. Are you outraged by the US selective Secondary Security protocols which have no 'opt out'?

But such an unrealistic attitude is in line with the comments above.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
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RWA380
Posts: 4451
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:29 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 33):
I love being physically molested.

Actually I don't like this radiation concern. It's very peculiar to me. I don't have problems with natural sources of radiation or nuclear power, whatever. But I will not expose myself to additional sources of radiation. I (in the past year) had 3 x-rays and I gave my doctors a VERY hard time about it. I do not believe in exposing oneself to additional electromagnetic waves. It IS a significant cancer risk, and it is not conducive to my beliefs.

LOL, I expected that reply, good for you. No, I totally get what your feeling is best for you, I have always hated the pat downs vs scans or detectors etc... I don't like the hands of the goverment on my person, less worried of the radiation than a frisky pair of hands invading my "danger zone".

Unfortunatly, if radiation was going to cause me cancer, it would have happened by now, I've been through so many X-rays, CT scans and MRI's that I've been over exposed already. not as worried as you would be since it sounds like you've had way less expose in your life than I've had just in the last year.
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
QantasA333
Posts: 480
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:21 pm

RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:38 am

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 11):
I haven't been able to read the bill as it hasn't been introduced and isn't yet posted on Parliament's web site but the newspaper article suggests that scanning will not be mandatory for all passengers (only those selected) and will be installed at international airports. No mention of domestic airports. It is refreshing to think that terrorists would never dream of targeting a domestic flight.  

What about at ADL? International and domestic passengers pass through the same security checkpoint. Although, international passengers are required to have all bags searched again on entering the customs area, and suppose this will be where the scanners are installed?
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:45 am

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 3):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3grHjibNdA

Al Kyder and Terry Wrist...    Thanks for the link!
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
ROSWELL41
Posts: 755
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2001 3:50 am

RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:56 am

So this proposed policy would only be applied if you were designated for secondary screening such as after setting off a metal detector? Or would it be applied at the discretion of the screener as it is sometimes in the US, except in Australia there will be no opt out option? The second scenario would be troubling. I have read the literature and believe that these devices will have serious health implications. I can't understand how any woman of child bearing age would ever go through one of these devices. I've already been to Australia and sadly if I am forced to be irradiated to visit, I shall not be going back. It's a long enough hassle to get there anyway.
 
Quokkas
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:19 pm

Quoting ROSWELL41 (Reply 41):
So this proposed policy would only be applied if...

Going purely on reports in the press, it would appear to be random in much the same way that individuals at present can be selected to undergo an explosives detection test. Without seeing the text of the proposed bill, it is hard to be certain.

I suspect that over time, because the machines are capable of detecting both metallic and non-metallic substances, their use may become mandatory for all passengers, except those with a medical exemption.
“Not to laugh, not to cry, not to hate, but understand.” Spinoza
 
ROSWELL41
Posts: 755
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:27 pm

I fear too that some governments will slowly attempt to make these scanners the only form of screening. Considering the limitations of these devices, I can only believe that this is the result of big business capitalizing on government security theater.
 
UALWN
Posts: 2176
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:27 pm

RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:37 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 26):
Things are never going to be the same EVER again

And in this regard the 9/11 terrorist have won. Sad.
AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/787/AB6/310/32X/330/340/380
 
miami1
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 10:31 pm

RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:58 pm

Time and time again almost every night on the 6 o'clock news we hear reference to Australia being a " nanny " state , that meaning an over regulated nation ruled by draconian laws , a communist police state in my opinion , I'm getting really sick of this denial of freedoms in our so called free society ! Where are our choices ! We don't have any legal rights when the stupid govt takes them away . Welcome to the lucky country .
 
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vhtje
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RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:47 pm

I have a titanium pin in my left leg and I would much rather go through a scanner than be patted down. When I go through the metal detectors the pin invariably sets it off, so I am always forced to have a pat down, which I emphatically do not enjoy.

Given the choice, I would prefer the full body scanner everyday. The default position must surely be one of trust of the people observing the scanner. Why assume they are going to do something questionable with what they observe? Surely they have seen it all before.

To put it another way, I absolutely see no reason to question the professionalism of the Australian Customs and Border Protection Service, any more than I do the professionalism of my doctor, the bank teller, my dentist, my accountant, etc.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
phljjs
Posts: 296
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:09 pm

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 8):
Well at MEM airport I went through the body scanner and had a tissue in my pocket and got a pat down anyway so what good is it. I know a guy who works for the company that developed these body scanners and he wont go through them when he flies.

The tissue was the reason you got the pat down. The body scanner saw an anomaly in your pocket (the tissue) and flagged you for the pat down to find out what the anomaly was. So, the scanner worked.

At every checkpoint I've been to that had the scanners, passengers have been instructed to empty their pockets. Try doing that and maybe you won't need a pat down.
 
planejamie
Posts: 564
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:41 pm

RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:09 pm

Why do people get so worked up over these full body scanners. If you went to the doctor for a lot of X-Rays to be done, you wouldn't complain and it wouldn't affect you in the slightest. So why is going through one at an airport different?

If you ask me, I think they're fine, there's no problem and I'd rather go through one than get groped by a security agent. People probably complained about going through metal detectors when they were introduced.

Either way, the full body scanner is going to be the norm in a few years and if you don't like it, don't fly, very simple. I feel safer with them in place.
 
csavel
Posts: 1265
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 9:38 pm

RE: Australia - Full-body Scans - NO Exceptions

Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:14 pm

So not being up on Australian politics, which Australian politician got wads of ca$h, um down under?

After all Michael Chertoff made himself some serious coin after he was DHS head by being a, cough, *consultant* for companies that just happened, ha ha what a coincidence, to be peddling those porno scanners.

But that is just a coincidence, I am sure Chertoff is totally above-board, honest as the day is long.
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.

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