SA7700
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Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:33 am

This is a follow-up thread of part 1 which can be found here: Malev Ceases Operations Part1. Please feel free to contribute to the the discussion as per the airliners.net forum rules.


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
reifel
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:22 pm

Flew out again on BUD today with LX. Same strange situation. The Malev check in area was empty, only the LY flight to TLV was checked in there.

The Malev ticketing office is open and looks like everyday. Difference is that the poor ladies inside can't do anyhting than give you a useless certificate that your flight is cancelled due "situation in BUD". In front there is a counter of a travel agent (??) which had the bright idea to make print some banners within minutes which says "Wizzair booking office, Rescue fare of 35 EUR for Malev passengers only". Plus there is a sign to "free internet computers (for flight booking only)", but I guess they've been taken away already. No ones comes to the MA check in area. Ticket office was empty.

Malev lounge is still open (as they serve basically all airlines with exception of LH/LX/OS I guess, even SN and other Star partners). Malev ground handling is still working and taking care of i.e. AF.
The Malev Ground handling transfer counter airside is still open, too, as someone they are handling could need assistance in case of misconnex or an onward boarding pass. The single lady here seems to have no work all day... Not that there were big queues there in the past anyway, when MA was still operating (unless there was an irregularity mabye).

I guess Malev catering has probably not much to do anymore (I mean, all carriers turning around in MA would get the catering at their home airport).

Other than that, the skycourt was quite full with flights to Prague, Düsseldorf, Frankfurt, Paris, Zürich, London and Tel Aviv departing. However after that bunch of flights there would have been no flights for 2 hours or so.

I was wondering what Base Airlines operating the E120 for MA i.e. to BEG would now do? Their 2 aircrafts are covered in snow on a remote position of the apron and have protection things on the props. I guess although Base will technically not be bankrupt there is no customer to fly them anymore...
There is a 737 (beneith the 767) of Malev also in front of the Hangar. Thought they were all flown to Ireland.
 
krisyyz
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:52 pm

Some more depressing pictures from MA's crew centre, taken today....

http://www.airportal.hu/spotter-forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6592

I've spoken to a few of my family in Hungary today (most of who worked for MA at one point or another). Apparently there is a rumor floating around that a group of Hungarian companies/investors are planning a rescue deal for MA, they are hoping to restart the airline on a drastically reduced scale. Although I would dismiss any rumors about MA restarting unless there is solid information coming from the Government itself.

KrisYYZ
 
krisyyz
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:53 pm

Sorry, double post...

[Edited 2012-02-05 07:53:59]
 
tommybp251b
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:23 pm

It is a sad day for Hungary.

I also would have expected a new Malev, although I think in the current economically enviroment it is hard to believe.

For me the most heartbreaking was, that they flew all the planes immediately to Shannon leaving BUD empty. Like Malev would have never existed.

Let's wait and see what will happen in the next weeks.

I dont like the idea of BUD becoming a LCC heaven.

I hope economy will go up within the next years.

My thoughts

Tom
Tom from Cologne
 
kl911
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:53 pm

Quoting TommyBP251b (Reply 4):
It is a sad day for Hungary.

It does not have to be. It is sad for Malev employees, but as others have stated there are new carriers starting and excisting carriers adding capacity and frequency.

Quoting TommyBP251b (Reply 4):
I dont like the idea of BUD becoming a LCC heaven.

Honestly, for us in Hungary that would be a blessing. The wages here are ridiculously low compared to the rest of Europe. Now Ryanair will open a base many more will be able to fly to nice holiday destinations.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:08 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 5):
Now Ryanair will open a base many more will be able to fly to nice holiday destinations.

This is just usual baseless FR cheerleading. There's already U2 and W6 serving quite extensive network so it's not like Hungarians are waiting for low cost carriers to discover Budapest and FR will have no qualms to charge rip-off rates where possible.
Typical Ryanair flight from BUD to the middle of nowhere twice a week will not replace the void left by MA bankruptcy.
 
kl911
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:32 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 6):
Typical Ryanair flight from BUD to the middle of nowhere twice a week will not replace the void left by MA bankruptcy

Budapest to: MAD, BCN, BLQ, DUB, MAN, OSL, BHX etc etc are not middle of nowhere airports, but the main city airports. You might not like FR yourself, but for instance BUD-MAD is a route I travel often, and I just booked it for 5990 HUF, which is about 20 Euros. I dont have any other charges then the CC fee.

I personally wish FR all the best at BUD, and I for sure will use them a lot.
 
Honza
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:40 am

Poor HALOP is on his way now, too...

 
magyar
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:23 am

Here is a question which may be stupid. Why only LCC can set up a base in BUD? Why not a large legacy carrier?
What if BA would base a few A320/319 in BUD and take over the Malev network, or whatever part of it that was useful for the OneWorld alliance?

There were many arguments for not having a national carrier for every single EU countries.I agree, but then why not allow big legacy carriers establish hubs/focus cities wherever they want in the EU?
 
FlyingAY
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:45 am

I feel saddened by the sudden loss of Malev. I used to fly them and their partner BASe (Budapest Aircraft Service) to Hungary, Athens and Slovenia a few times in the last couple of years. Their 737-600 is also the only one I have flown.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 7):
I personally wish FR all the best at BUD, and I for sure will use them a lot.

You maybe, but no serious businessman will use them. I fly FR sometimes personally, but handling cancelled flights, lost luggage, overweight luggage etc. is a nightmare with them. Not to mention that connections are virtually impossible with them. When I fly for business, I need some flexibility and my company is willing to pay for that. My time is valuable for the company when I'm working, not when I'm queueing at the airline counter. This applies to most business travellers. If your time is charged from the customer at a rate of 200 euros per hour or more, trying to get the last 50 euro saving by travelling with FR is just plain pointless.

I guess AY will increase their connections to BUD as well. There is a significant Nokia operations in Hungary and when flying between HEL and BUD, there was always Nokia people onboard. There has been 4 daily flights between the cities (2 AY and 2 MA flights).
 
EY460
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:51 am

Quoting magyar (Reply 9):
but then why not allow big legacy carriers establish hubs/focus cities wherever they want in the EU?

There is full cabotage in Europe, so within the European Union there is nothing stopping an European airlines to set up a base and operate wherever they want within the EU (including domestic flights), unless there are slot issue but this is not the case in Budapest. It they want to operate to a country outside the EU it is more complicated because of bilaterals.

For instance Lufthansa started Lufthansa Italia and Air France has CityJet in the UK. Air France was even able to start flights from London to the USA thanks to the Open Skies agreement between the EU and the USA.
 
Joost
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:48 am

Quoting magyar (Reply 9):

Here is a question which may be stupid. Why only LCC can set up a base in BUD? Why not a large legacy carrier?

They are allowed. Just like LH started Lufthansa Italia in MXP. There is no (legal) difference between a LCC or network-carrier.

Quoting magyar (Reply 9):
What if BA would base a few A320/319 in BUD and take over the Malev network, or whatever part of it that was useful for the OneWorld alliance?

They'd find it very hard to make it profitable. That's the reason we don't see network carriers creating new bases.

Quoting magyar (Reply 9):
or whatever part of it that was useful for the OneWorld alliance?

With MA bankrupt, the OneWorld aspect in Hungary is not really relevant anymore, except (maybe) a slightly higher share of BA Executive Club or Finnair Plus members. Duna Club miles became worthless, so no difference here.

Quoting magyar (Reply 9):
Why not a large legacy carrier?

So far, legacy carriers have not been successful in setting up bases outside their main hub. Actually, there is a trend of dismantling minor hubs rather than setting them up.

In a way, the Budapest-case is a first-timer in Europe: a nation's primary carrier, operating a medium-sized hub, ceases operations. However, when looking at some other airports that have found themselves in a (more or less) comparable situation, BUD's situation doesn't look bright.

- FlyLal operated a small network out of VNO, aimed at connecting Europe's major cities in a business-friendly schedule. They also codeshared on the VNO-AMS flights to tag onto KL's intercontinental network. After their demise, Star1, BT and OV tried to operate such a network, but all failed. Now, VNO is a W6 base, a FR destination, and is linked by only a few network carriers to their hubs. (BA, KL, AF didn't start service to the airport). A main difference is that Vilnius' catchment area is smaller than Budapest's (explaining the lack of connections to LHR/AMS/CDG), but starting a new network seems very difficult.

- In Spain, BCN has a sizeable catchment area, but no network carrier. BCN's catchment area is arguably bigger than BUD's, but still IB has found that it was not profitable running a full-service network carrier from BCN, and the same goes (unfortunately) for JK. Now, for BCN, we'll see that they are linked perfectly (high frequencies) to all European hubs, they have a fair share of long-haul connections, and a "main-airport LCC" (Vueling) offering business-friendly routes to main airports (7x daily BCN-ORY, 4x daily BCN-AMS, for example). And FR and U2. But no "home" network carrier.

- In the UK, main airports like MAN or EDI see a similar network to BCN: good connections to the main hubs, and 4 LCC-like carriers (BE, U2, LS, FR) fighting for market share. But no BA network.

FlyBE is, in a way, an interesting carrier. Their on-board product and price-structure resembles an LCC, but their network - for a number of routes - is aimed at business pax. Also, they are willing to get involved in interline agreements and code shares. If well-played, FlyBE *might* be an interesting option for Budapest. I don't expect them om main routes (AMS, CDG, FRA), but on abandoned routes in central and eastern Europe.
 
lauda777
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:34 am

Well guys words can't express it's like losing a family member, I was born in Budapest and my first ever flight was on Malév in 1986 on probably a TU154 or 134 I was only 6 years old too young to remember, I have been living in Australia since I was 7 years old and haven't flown Malév since but it it was always something I was proud of being Hungarian and knowing it was a much loved airline with great service and caring staff that looked after you, what saddens me more is I have a trip planned this August and booked tickets 2 weeks ago, I couldn't believe it when I heard the news I was so looking forward to fly with Malév again and now I'm afraid it will never happen again, I'm holding out hope for a restart before I rebook my flights but whatever happens I hope the employees get their entitlements I can't imagine the sadness and hardship for them at this difficult time.
I don't want to fly a LCC it's just not the same, my whole trip was planned out with Qatar,BA and Malév  
We remind passengers all flights are non smoking, if you are caught smoking you will be asked to sit outside on the wing
 
tonymctigue
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:06 am

A few more pics of the Malev fleet at SNN I took yesterday

http://www.flickr.com/photos/65739000@N08/?saved=1

Apologies if they're not great. I only just got a new Sony NEX5 before Christmas and haven't quite got the hang of it yet! I also don't have a particurarly powerful lense and the SNN weather made it nigh impossible to get some good pics for everyone but the most talented photographers. Note also the BA747-400 abandoned on the taxiway near the MA fleet that can be seen in the shots taken from the terminal. This was one of the diversions due to the snow at LHR. There was also a BA 777 parked at the terminal while I was there.
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
B738FlyUIA
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:24 am

Sorry A.Netters for this question:

After reading much about Malev's Ceases Operation and much more I wondered what the reason is (was) to "ship" almost the hole fleet from BUD to SNN. Maybe I missed reading something also in the previous post?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Trevor Mulkerrins



Thank's in adv.
 
tonymctigue
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:43 am

Quoting B738FlyUIA (Reply 15):
After reading much about Malev's Ceases Operation and much more I wondered what the reason is (was) to "ship" almost the hole fleet from BUD to SNN. Maybe I missed reading something also in the previous post?

International Lease Finance Corporation who are the leasing company has a base at SNN. Apparently they wanted to get their aircraft back to where they had control over them ASAP in case they got impounded at foreign airports as a result of MA not paying airport charges. SNN has plenty of remote parking area and is frequently used for short term storage of aircraft returning from lease. I think the plan is to keep them in MA colours for a short period in case some angle investor decides to bail MA out. After that, they will likely be repainted at SNN and redeployed to new leasors. There are rumours that the B737-600s may be sold or even scrapped as there is little demand out there for them.
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
Joost
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:44 am

Quoting B738FlyUIA (Reply 15):
I wondered what the reason is (was) to "ship" almost the hole fleet from BUD to SNN. Maybe I missed reading something also in the previous post?

It's in reply 86:
Malev Ceases Operations Part 1 (by keuleatr72 Feb 2 2012 in Civil Aviation)#86
 
Fabo
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:44 am

Basically ILFC wanted it out of the way, various possible reasons include
-to avoid BUD parking fees, possible impounding
-to avoid someone "nationalising" the fleet
-to have them at an airport where needed mx care (even for parking) can be provided
-maybe to have them readily available in case some airline decides they need a 737 and they need it now.
The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
 
B738FlyUIA
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:52 am

Quoting joost (Reply 17):
It's in reply 86:
Malev Ceases Operations Part 1 (by keuleatr72 Feb 2 2012 in Civil Aviation)#86

Thank you joost and is clear now.
 
co38
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:54 am

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 16):
There are rumours that the B737-600s may be sold or even scrapped as there is little demand out there for them.

Would be a shame if they get scrapped.

Maybe theres a market for them as BBJs? According to reply number 8 in the "2011 Aircraft Values and lease pricing." thread they have a market value between 11.0 and 19.5 mill USD.
Could be a cheaper way to aquire a BBJ with a 4000NM range and nearly the same cabin space as the original BBJ.

Or a current 735 operator could perhaps be interrested in these birds. Replacing aging aircraft with a similar capacity NG model. SK comes to mind.
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:09 pm

Its always sad seeing an airline close down, I hope MA will get back in the air again and soon.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:09 pm

Quoting Fabo (Reply 18):
Basically ILFC wanted it out of the way, various possible reasons include
-to avoid BUD parking fees, possible impounding
-to avoid someone "nationalising" the fleet
-to have them at an airport where needed mx care (even for parking) can be provided
-maybe to have them readily available in case some airline decides they need a 737 and they need it now.

That makes all sense, however why did MA bother to allocate its own scarce resources to ferry them to SNN? Why not let ILFC sort it out themselves?
 
Joost
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:34 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 22):
That makes all sense, however why did MA bother to allocate its own scarce resources to ferry them to SNN? Why not let ILFC sort it out themselves?

ILFC did. ILFC paid fuel, eurocontrol and the (ex-Malev) crew. For the crew, it's simply work. If MA-crew would not be willing to fly the planes (and get paid for doing so), ILFC would hire another crew right away.

Quoting CO38 (Reply 20):
Or a current 735 operator could perhaps be interrested in these birds. Replacing aging aircraft with a similar capacity NG model. SK comes to mind.

I doubt SK is interested in second-hand 736s. SK just ordered second-hand 737-700s and A320NEOs (new of course). In fact, their 1999 SE-DNU 737-600 has already been scrapped at Kemble in 2010.

Quoting CO38 (Reply 20):
Maybe theres a market for them as BBJs?

Except for airlines looking for the specific characteristics of the 736, or need an aircraft really quickly, the only sensible destination for a 736 is for Business Jet conversions or to be parted out. Interesting enough, Boeing doesn't even offer 737-600 BBJs new, but the second-hand market is different of course. The current economic climate doesn't help, though.
 
rj777
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:10 pm

Is their ENTIRE fleet now at SNN? Or are some planes still stuck somewhere else?
 
tonymctigue
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:18 pm

Quoting rj777 (Reply 24):
Is their ENTIRE fleet now at SNN? Or are some planes still stuck somewhere else?

I think all but two of the B737 fleet are not at SNN. There was one B737 stuck at DUB and another at IST when they ceased operations. As far as I know, neither of those aircraft have returned to SNN as of yet. I have no idea of where the the remainder of the MA fleet are or where they will be heading.
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
eicvd
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:18 pm

Quoting rj777 (Reply 24):

One 737 was still in DUB as of last night.
COYBIB
 
raffik
Posts: 1531
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:25 pm

Very sad and such a shame that a national carrier should go under like this.
Do you think there is a chance that the airline could relaunch with less routes and aircraft?
The route to Beirut was really convenient and often the cheapest way for me to get there.
- Alec
 
Joost
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:35 pm

Quoting raffik (Reply 27):
Do you think there is a chance that the airline could relaunch with less routes and aircraft?

Every day they aren't relaunched makes it less likely. LH and AB already started HAM and TXL routes today, and practically all carriers are adding capacity like crazy. Especially W6, FR and QS will launch flights very quickly. The more bookings these carriers are getting now, the more difficult it will be for MA to relaunch.
 
raffik
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:09 pm

Ryanair are going to do very well in Budapest.. they must have been planning a base there for a while to come up with such a comprehensive schedule so quickly? Were they waiting for the demise of Malev?

Where are they getting the capacity from also? Do they have spare aircraft sitting around?
- Alec
 
PezySPU
Posts: 281
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:11 pm

Quoting joost (Reply 28):
Quoting raffik (Reply 27):
Do you think there is a chance that the airline could relaunch with less routes and aircraft?

Every day they aren't relaunched makes it less likely.

   My thoughts exactly! If this new airline was to launch, it would have to launch immediately after MA's demise.

Quoting raffik (Reply 29):
Where are they getting the capacity from also? Do they have spare aircraft sitting around?

Yes, they had quite a few aircraft grounded this winter since there's not a lot of demand.

[Edited 2012-02-06 08:12:22]

[Edited 2012-02-06 08:17:25]
 
Joost
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:31 pm

Quoting raffik (Reply 29):
they must have been planning a base there for a while to come up with such a comprehensive schedule so quickly? Were they waiting for the demise of Malev?

Of course, although not necessarily MA. They probably have out-of-the-box schedules like this available for many other European airports, in order to be able to respond this quickly. (Just like news papers have their obituaries ready for important politicians, royalties, celebrities, the pope, etc., to be able to publish an article quickly).

Quoting raffik (Reply 29):
Where are they getting the capacity from also? Do they have spare aircraft sitting around?

This winter, FR 'grounded' 80 aircraft. It's not that they stored the aircraft, but for their winter schedule, they have 80 aircraft spare. (which are simply rotated through the network). Many employees are on temporary contracts, but can be hired quickly. This allows them for setting-up a base that quickly.

During the summer, most of these aircraft should be flying, but because they are still receiving new frames, they can always respond quickly to these situations.

Quoting raffik (Reply 27):
The route to Beirut was (...) often the cheapest way for me to get there.

Here you might have an indication for their bankruptcy. Always being the cheapest isn't good when you want to make money.

Quoting PezySPU (Reply 30):
My thoughts exactly! If this new airline was to relaunch, it would have to relaunch immediately after MA's demise.

Indeed, now the abandoned routes are being filled by other carriers like crazy.

Last Friday, Anna.aero posted a list of 27 monopoly routes served by MA (and they missed TXL, so actually 28). http://www.anna.aero/2012/02/03/male...-27-monopoly-routes-from-budapest/

Now, only 3 days later, the situation is as follows:
- TXL and HAM have already been started by LH / AB
- SKG, RHO and AGP have been announced by FR
- ATH has been announced by A3
- HER and LCA have been 'replaced' by FR, by CHQ and PAP
- GOT and MXP are not replaced yet, but W6 already serves GSE and BGY, and FR just added capacity to both routes



Aegean To Launch Athens>Budapest (by ju068 Feb 6 2012 in Civil Aviation)
 
krisyyz
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Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:04 pm

RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:59 pm

Quoting PezySPU (Reply 30):
My thoughts exactly! If this new airline was to launch, it would have to launch immediately after MA's demise.

Just saw this article. I hope it's more than wishful thinking.

A government official states that the chances of new national carrier will being launched is greater than 50%.

http://www.portfolio.hu/en/economy/t..._malev_in_hungary_rogan.23741.html



KrisYYZ
 
PezySPU
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:11 pm

The government official needs to understand that it's not just about the launch itself, it's about capturing the market share after you start. And if FR (especially FR with their new base), W6 and legacies settle in the market well, it will be extremely hard for the new carrier to operate. I too really hope that MA will be relaunched in one way or another, but I highly doubt it will be possible if the government doesn't react not fast, but now.
 
Humberside
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:41 pm

Smartwings have today announced a new BUD operation. Booking engine currently just has CDG/ATH/BCN/LCA available from BUD. Press release also lists AMS while route map also has a lot of other routes showing from BUD

Frequencies from press release
CDG - 2xDaily
AMS - 1xDaily
LCA - 4xWeek
ATH - 3xWeek
BCN - 3xWeek
http://www.smartwings.com/news.php?id=113

I wonder if some routes could end up seeing over capacity. I'm sure BCN for example is going to end with more capacity than before Malev collapsed.

[Edited 2012-02-06 10:45:41]
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
Joost
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:23 pm

Quoting Humberside (Reply 34):
I wonder if some routes could end up seeing over capacity. I'm sure BCN for example is going to end with more capacity than before Malev collapsed.

As many carriers are chasing after the market left by Malev, there will be a short period of overcapacity. After the summer months, this will probably revert back to normal.

When Sterling ceased operations, many carriers started to fight for the market share: DY, CI and HV all started flights from CPH. Transavia's stepped down after 2 years.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 34):
Smartwings have today announced a new BUD operation. Booking engine currently just has CDG/ATH/BCN/LCA available from BUD. Press release also lists AMS while route map also has a lot of other routes showing from BUD

I hope they'll do better at AMS than with their AMS-PRG route in 2004-2006 and 2010; the second time it was started after SkyEurope went bankrupt. Smartwings' reputation was quite bad at the times, as they suffered from hefty delays an cancellations.
 
fpetrutiu
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:37 pm

RO might be interested in some of those B737's, not the B736, but the B737 and B738's. They had just returned 2 B738's to Air Berlin, and are looking for more planes. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those birds will end up with RO. It is really sad to see Malev go. I flew with them many times and always had great service.
Florin
Orlando, FL
 
JU068
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RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:58 pm

Quoting Humberside (Reply 34):

Frequencies from press release
CDG - 2xDaily
AMS - 1xDaily
LCA - 4xWeek
ATH - 3xWeek
BCN - 3xWeek
http://www.smartwings.com/news.php?id=113

Thanks for that!! Budapest-Larnaca starts at €220 tax included which is not that bad. Unfortunately the arrival time to Budapest is horrible (00:50), then again Malev's night flight used to depart LCA at 04:20 and arrive to BUD at 06:00.
It's a good move to launch Budapest-Larnaca as Paphos (operated by Ryanair) is quite far, over 150 kms from Nicosia. Not to mention that Larnaca's location is much better since it is located in the middle between Agia Napa, Nicosia and Paphos.
 
PezySPU
Posts: 281
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:27 pm

RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:06 pm

Quoting Humberside (Reply 34):
Smartwings have today announced a new BUD operation. Booking engine currently just has CDG/ATH/BCN/LCA available from BUD. Press release also lists AMS while route map also has a lot of other routes showing from BUD

Frequencies from press release
CDG - 2xDaily
AMS - 1xDaily
LCA - 4xWeek
ATH - 3xWeek
BCN - 3xWeek
http://www.smartwings.com/news.php?id=113

Sounds like a base, 2 or 3 aircraft. Are they going to receive additional aircraft from Travel Service? And they didn't include start dates in the press release. Looking at CDG on their website and it starts at the end of March.
 
Joost
Posts: 1845
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:27 pm

RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:16 pm

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 36):
RO might be interested in some of those B737's, not the B736, but the B737 and B738's. They had just returned 2 B738's to Air Berlin, and are looking for more planes. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those birds will end up with RO.

These planes can practically go anywhere. When looking at airfleets.net at the fate of 737NG aircraft from European carriers who went bankrupt in the last 5 years (Sterling, SkyEurope, Futura, FlyGlobespan, XL Airways), you'll see they basically end up all over the world. Some carriers seem to be more active in acquiring these frames than other, though, and Aerolineas Argentinas, Gol, Garuda, Turkish/Anadolujet/SunExpress seem to be among the more active buyers / leasers of these aircraft. But if RO is currently in the market for 1 or 2 737s, they have probably already made a phonecall to ILFC.
 
MH017
Posts: 1473
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:17 am

RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:17 pm

What happened to the Q400's: still stored at BUD or also flown to SNN ?
don't throw away tomorrow !
 
tonymctigue
Posts: 997
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:01 am

RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:57 pm

Quoting MH017 (Reply 40):
What happened to the Q400's: still stored at BUD or also flown to SNN ?

They are not at SNN anyway so presumably they are still at BUD.
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
PEET7G
Posts: 468
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:00 pm

RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:26 pm

There is so much to say, and so much to argue with some of you, especially those with the air of patronage claiming why and how this is right and this is the way it had to happen and becoming an LCC heaven is the best future BUD could get...

...it was not, there are "national airlines" in a much worse shape that soldier on with "tax money pumped" yet it was our government (yes I do not really blame the EU nor others) that left MA to die in such a disgraceful way...

...as for how good all this was for the BUD departing customers? Well I had to re-arrange all my flights I already had in my calendar and guess what oh' great competition defenders... my costs minimum doubled (but in some cases tripled).

Let me get you an example: I have 4 round trips (that I know of) to FRA up until the end of April, all of them are "relatively" mid-priced trips (meaning, no business class, no "same-day" returns; but, no weekends either and keeping in mind important factors, like flying out early in the morning and returning in the evening to maximize workable time) so with those conditions there are no "ECO" class tickets under 280-290 EUR out in April even! (don't just look at first prices in the table, the few "cheap" options that are utilizing last evening flight out and early return make no sense to me)
Anyway, whoever tries to explain me that loosing competition was a good thing...well...

LCCs are not going to lower the prices...they serve a whole different market. As for the Smartwings...hah...lets not even waist characters on them and their service  

Just another impact on me: I just also re-booked 2 flight with EK to HKG and SIN that I chose to take via MXP, because of the great Business class fares they had from there...Now I had to re-book them out of VIE (with huge expenses), because there is no sensible way to fly the BUD-MXP-BUD sectors...

And the whining could go on, but the most important thing is: GOOD BYE BLUE NOSE fleet   

Peet7G
 
JU068
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:23 am

RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:38 pm

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 42):

I asked you in the previous thread that got blocked, what kind of things the newspapers are writting now? I remember that before the demise of Malev they were constantly attacking them.
 
bennett123
Posts: 7527
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:58 pm

tonymctigue

I did not know that there was a B737 stuck in IST, but I thought HA-LOA was in TLV.

Honza

Is HA-LOP in SNN yet.
 
tonymctigue
Posts: 997
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:01 am

RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:03 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 44):
I did not know that there was a B737 stuck in IST, but I thought HA-LOA was in TLV.

It is possible that I'm mistaking. I cannot confirm the registerations of the B737s at SNN as I don't work there. I can only report what I can see from the various viewing areas but I'm sure if you post your question on the Irish forum you will get an answer.

[Edited 2012-02-06 14:07:43]
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
ContnlEliteCMH
Posts: 1376
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:19 am

RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:05 pm

Per http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...ev-stoppage-idUSTRE8121JS20120203, Malev had 2,600 employees to operate 22 aircraft. Per Wikipedia, they operated 50 destinations.

How many flights per day did Malev operate?
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 14492
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:10 pm

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 42):
There is so much to say, and so much to argue with some of you, especially those with the air of patronage claiming why and how this is right and this is the way it had to happen and becoming an LCC heaven is the best future BUD could get...

...it was not, there are "national airlines" in a much worse shape that soldier on with "tax money pumped" yet it was our government (yes I do not really blame the EU nor others) that left MA to die in such a disgraceful way...

Wouldn't it be more correct to say the ones that have the air of patronage are the ones who presume full-service airlines are a god-given right, even if they lose money hand over fist?

Isn't it wrong to justify one bad act by pointing to another bad act?
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
reifel
Posts: 1538
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:53 pm

RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:12 pm

Quoting joost (Reply 12):
- In Spain, BCN has a sizeable catchment area, but no network carrier. BCN's catchment area is arguably bigger than BUD's, but still IB has found that it was not profitable running a full-service network carrier from BCN, and the same goes (unfortunately) for JK. Now, for BCN, we'll see that they are linked perfectly (high frequencies) to all European hubs, they have a fair share of long-haul connections, and a "main-airport LCC" (Vueling) offering business-friendly routes to main airports (7x daily BCN-ORY, 4x daily BCN-AMS, for example). And FR and U2. But no "home" network carrier.

On a side note, VY is operating a "hub" in BCN. It's absolute possible to book several VY legs in one ticket, i.e. if issued with IB flight number in IB stock. But sizewise it is nothing close as the JK operation.

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 41):
They are not at SNN anyway so presumably they are still at BUD.

At least on sunday, 2 DH8 were at the end of the active runway, near Terminal 1. And the one DH8 with the retro scheme was on the regular terminal apron.
 
PEET7G
Posts: 468
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:00 pm

RE: Malev Ceases Operation Part 2

Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:20 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 43):
I asked you in the previous thread that got blocked, what kind of things the newspapers are writting now?

Sorry, must have slipped my sight, I hardly have mood to even read thing around here  

The media is full of personal stories, fotos of crews crying and kissing every departing plane goodbye. The departure of the MA fleet was covered in forums, on TV and in the newspapers. There was huge crowd of civilians standing at the fences. Spotters, ordinary people, mothers and fathers with children, old and young even in the freezing cold. A whole armada of recordings of the last communications of every departing Blue Nose bird is up on the net (and was played in the news on TV and Radios) even tower communications with the Bratislava control, who with tears in his voice wished good night to every MA flight in Hungarian, and also commenting his wish to hear the MALEV call-sign in the ether again as soon as possible.

I knew that Malev had a special spot in the hearts and minds here, but I never imagined that even after 4 days there is a sense all over, and everyone is talking about the issue with unimaginable anger on the streets, on the media, etc. What surprises me is a whole bunch of sadness from Slovakia, Serbia, Croatia, and all over the Balkans... I receive calls from partner offices all over, with ordinary people having no real passion for aviation calling just to confirm if the news is true, and not believing this has happened...

Of course today, as it was Monday the articles start to be about the impact of the demise of MA, especially its economical impact. Here is a very good article, that simply makes it unbelievable how huge loss this is going to be. Unfortunatley it is in Hungarian only, but the important facts are:

- MA got 74% of its income out of tickets sold to foreigners (74% is the revenue and not the passenger numbers! this means MA managed to sell higher priced fare abroad!)
- The impact on EX-IM ratio is huge, mainly because from now on not only those foreign revenus will not be turned into Hungarian economy's flow, but on the contrary, the Hungarians money buying tickets will feed foreign economies (so double losses there!)
- MA returned a huge proportion of their revenue into Hungarian economy, as everything they served, utilized was "home grown product". Even their maintenance was in-house, utilizing high class domestic labor!
- The negative impact on the Hungarian GDP can be as high as 0,5% (that is huge from a single company!)

Not in this article, but there was also an analysis of how huge effect this will have on large Hungarian based corporations like MOL (the oil company with huge investments all over the Balkans) OTP (The Bank system with also huge investments and networks all over the region) the analysis was all about what we at our company also face: no direct links to our outposts, and thus a huge financial and time-consuming way to reach there from now on...

...so basically first there where mourning articles, and today they started to analyses the financial impacts, and of course the never ending political finger-pointing on each other about who caused the death of MA, and as the 2011 reports start coming in, ever more questions arise about how could this have happened to a company, that was in a self restructuring, and proved operational profitability as a result of that.

The biggest problem is (according to another article, and I totally agree) that the government has made no plans (and even now they are sitting still and waiting for miracle to happen) to start up a new MALEV out of scratch. While their biggest enemy is time, because the market reacts quickly, and by the time they might be ready for a relaunch, their market-share will be gone in a flash  

...as I already said before, even the worst case scenario should have been bankruptcy protection for MALEV, re-organizing a "new" MALEV, bankrupt the old MALEV, and immediately restart operations (maybe within days and not months!) with a new MALEV. Unfortunately they managed to figure out an even worse case scenario  
Peet7G

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