cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Mon Oct 09, 2000 8:14 am

In your opinion, what is the worst aircraft ever built? I don't know if I can nominate one, but I have heard that DC-10-10's had major problems.
 
N312RC
Posts: 2584
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2000 10:58 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Mon Oct 09, 2000 9:10 am

The MD-11.... Performance shortcomings lead the list for this aircraft. It put McDonalds Douglas right out of business.
N/A
 
Guest

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Mon Oct 09, 2000 9:34 am


The worst Aircraft ever built would probably have to be the Tupolev TU-144 "concordski". great to look at, shame about the performance
 
N863DA
Posts: 1140
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:36 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Mon Oct 09, 2000 9:40 am

It's McDONNELL!!!! as in McDonnell Douglas. No they didn't change the name...   It was never McDonald Douglas. They don't tend to serve French Fries in the DAC building at Long Beach....

Personally, passenger wise I think the B-1900 wins, but, having had a couple of minutes watching someone fly around in the B1900D Sim here at ERAU, it sure looked like fun! I guess if I flew them I would love them! Other than that, I think all airliners are excellent. The only one I really didn't like was the EMB-110 Bandeirante, but even that was a dinky little airplane!

FLY DELTA JETS and sail UNITED STATES LINES



N 8 6 3 D A
 
scaredflyer21
Posts: 334
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2000 6:52 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Mon Oct 09, 2000 10:43 am

I would have to say the beech1900c
 
Guest

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Mon Oct 09, 2000 11:23 am

Just read a couple of people say they think the Beech 1900's are bad aircraft? Can I ask why? I have flown on them a couple of times. They are not particularly comfortable, perhaps a little better than most props as they can fly at higher altitude.

Never had a problem with them and like the way they take off quick.

mb
 
IndianGuy
Posts: 3126
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2000 3:14 pm

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Mon Oct 09, 2000 11:59 am

Qantas 747-sp: The 'concordski' was not terribly bad in terms of performance. It could definitely stand up to the Concorde in all areas except interiors and pax comfort, in which all Russian airliners suffer.

Mx5_boy:
The B1900s look ugly. And they rattle too much. The only turboprops i've flown are HS748's, Beech 1900D's and Dornier 228's. I personally thought the Beech was terrible.
 
MAC_Veteran
Posts: 702
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 1999 3:03 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Mon Oct 09, 2000 12:06 pm

I've got to agree, the MD-11 was a real dog of a passenger carrying airplane and epitomized the term "patched product" or "patchware" (what we hear in terms of software these days) to airplanes. It's excelling as a cargo carrier now, but overall, in terms of money spent on its development and so forth..a real flop.

Lesson to the wise: Dont design airplane changes on paper napkin and show to big customer (who then cancels)..Watch company go t*ts up, resulting in merger with biggest competitor.

MAC
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Mon Oct 09, 2000 2:07 pm

The MD-11 because it couldn't carry a full payload on the miles it was expected to fly according to what MD had claimed which in turn left a bad taste in Robert CrAAndle's mouth and him being very disappointed. In my opinion airlines were loosing money on a plane that couldn't carry the expected payload on thwe mile it was expected to fly on

DC-10s are really bad because they rushed through the production and didn't take their time like Boeings with the 747-100 and Lockheed with the L-1011. There is a phrase called "Take your time becaue you might make a mistake" Apparently Douglass didn't take their time and as a result their engineering marvel turned out to be and engineering disaster with the cargo door problems on March 3, 1974 killing all 346 people on a Turkish DC-10. The plane was loaded to capacity because of a strike at British Airways. Before the crash many airlines complained about the problem but the only thing that was given was a mere recomedation. A few years before; an AA DC-10 had experienced the same thing happened except this time the hydrolic lines to the tail were still intact. The pilot was able to make a safe landing with no casualties. The turkish crew wasn't so lucky because not only did the lines sever but the floor broke sucking out 6 passengers send them to a field (i think) seconds before the plane went down in the woods north of Paris. The plane would be great if the company didn't rush production and made a device called a stick shaker standard in the co-pilot's side instead of just the Captain's when a AA DC-10 crashed in Chicago in 1979. When the left engine broke off the Captain had lost power on his side including the stick shaker that would tell him that he is going to stall. The Co pilot still had power but no stick shaker since it was optional for the co-pilot side and AA didn't get one maybe to save money or felt it wasn't necesary. This could most likely save the 271 people on the plane and 2 on the ground and could as well give all 3 pilots a fighting chance in preventing the worst air disaster in the US on that date fateful day on Maay, 25, 1979.
"FUIMUS"
 
Guest

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Mon Oct 09, 2000 2:13 pm

What about the de Havilland Comet? Anyone?
 
caribb
Posts: 1502
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 1999 6:33 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Mon Oct 09, 2000 2:28 pm

I'd say the Comet too... they kept disintegrating in midair.. not a good thing..
 
Pacific
Posts: 1043
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2000 2:46 pm

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Mon Oct 09, 2000 2:28 pm

I can see what you mean by the comet. Although it pioneered jet travel, it could be the worst since the plane only lasts for a year due to excessive metal fatigue. That caused many crashes.

Pacific
 
agrodemm
Posts: 383
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 11:05 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Mon Oct 09, 2000 3:22 pm

Hello Everybody.

I am not (like most of us here) an aircraft engineer or an airline expert, or a pilot or crew member, but allow me to comment:

I often see that many people keep saying how they miss the Tristars or the B 727, and they hope that airlines will keep them flying.

On the other hand I see many people are saying how bad the DC-10 or the MD-11 etc is and that they would prefer a 777 instead.

"People kill their horses when they get old" and they tend to forget how these aircrafts served for yeras, and also under what circumstances they were produced.

I spare the valuable space in this site to comment on which aircraft is the worst ever built..........
What about Wright's Plane?
Terrible design, safety record and comfort level..... wasn't it????????????

Regards,
agrodemm  
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Mon Oct 09, 2000 3:49 pm

I have seen a lot of negative comments about the MD-11 on this post. I think that it's unfortunate that the MD-11 didn't turn out as well as it was supposed to due to budget problems at MDC. It was supposed to compete head to head with the Boeing 777 and Airbus A340. It will serve as a great cargo aircraft for many years to come though. The same thing with the DC-10. A rushed design lead to a crappy aircraft, but because it was rushed, they beat the L1011, even though the tristart was the better aircraft. So, the conclusion? Never rush a design. It's what did MDC in.
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Mon Oct 09, 2000 10:17 pm

Th Wall Street Journal did a story on the MD-11 last month and compared the aircraft to many others as having the most hull losses like the 707 and the DC-8; even more hull loses than the DC-10. Delta pilots had actually complained about the controls being too sensitive and that the management demanded that MD had a tecnician on every flight MD-11 flight on it's first few monts of serve. If a new plane that was unvailed in 1991 has comparingly more hull losses than the DC-10 and the older 737 combined than there is a serious problem here. Did anyone read that article on the MD-11 that came out in September. There were FEDEX pilots calling this plane the Death star and a few pilots were going to either quit or fly the DC-10 because they were commenting that on the first 100 feet of take off and landing were risky due to the controls being "too damn sensitive". This could've been the cause of that MD-11 crash at EWR in July of 1997 when a FEDEX MD-11 flipped over and burned while performing and emergencey landing. Luckly all 10 aboard survived. Can anyone tell me if they saw the article in the Wall Street Journal other than myself.
"FUIMUS"
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

Leave The Comet Alone!

Mon Oct 09, 2000 10:31 pm


Hi. I think it's terribly unfair to say that the Comet was the worst aircraft ever built!!! For those of you that need further information regarding this aircraft remember the following:

The Comet was the FIRST jet aircraft that worked comercially during some years. It was years ahead of the rest of civil airliners, don't forget that when the Comet started the other companies where building still slow aircrafts, in 1952 you would see DC-6's, L1049's, Boeings 377 comming out of the production line so there's no possible comparative figures with the Comet. About the problems Comet had, don't forget that those problems helped the other aircraft companies ( like Douglas and Boeing ) to know exactly how to built a jet airliner and that's why you can fly now safely with jets. Finnally after that problem De Havilland builted the Comet 3 and Comet's 4/4B/4C and not one was w/o with the same cause as the first generation, so please don't be unfair and leave the Comet alone, the plane as a big space in civil aviation forever and those people killed where not in vain!
regards!
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
airsicknessbag
Posts: 4626
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2000 2:45 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Mon Oct 09, 2000 11:42 pm

What about the Dassault Breguet Mercure, a complete failure, at least in commercial terms.
Another airliner with bad sales figures is the VFW614, but this is because it was too good - when Fokker bought into VFW they killed the 614 because they didn´t want her to compete with Fokker´s own aircraft.
Daniel 
 
airmale
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Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:48 pm

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Mon Oct 09, 2000 11:51 pm

sad that the DC-10s rushed introduction into commercial service made the L-1011 lose out, didnt the airlines have sense enough to wait and see the Tristars.
.....up there with the best!
 
fanofjets
Posts: 1978
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2000 2:26 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Tue Oct 10, 2000 7:24 am

An entertaining, if not sobering book on the subject is "The World's Worst Aircraft" by Bill Yenne (ISBN 0-88029-490-6).

Because this is an airliners forum, I shall limit candidates to this type. As such, my vote will have to go to the Caproni Ca=60 Transaereo "Capronisimo." This aircraft consisted of a luxurious 70-foot (23-meter) houseboat mated to three sets of triplane wings which in 1921, with the help of eight Liberty V-12 engines, were to have carried the huge craft from the waters of Lake Maggiore to the harbor of New York City. Reaching an altitude of 60 feet (20 meters) on its maiden (and only) flight, the center set of wings buckled, sending the 23-ton plane back into the lake.

The Tu-144 definitely deserves honorable - or dishonorable - mention as a design rushed into production to show off technological prowess during the Cold War.

With some hesitation I include the Comet 1, but I agree with CV990 that the entire Comet design should not be counted among the worst aircraft. As for the Comet 1, it is fair to point out that all other airplane manufacturers learned from the pioneering jet's mistakes - the Comet 1, after all, broke new ground. If we include it in this category, it is only fair to also include it among the world's great aviation classics.

Finally, there is the Bristol Brabazon, luxurious and majestic, but severely underpowered, unreliable, and economical.

The aeroplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
 
Guest

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Tue Oct 10, 2000 7:45 am

Rather than add why the comet shouldn't be included in this list, I will add one of the other pioneering achievements the Comet was infamous for was "Air Safety Investigations".

VirginA340,

Do you have any links to that MD-11 article? Or does anyone else have any links to it? It must be reproduced somewhere.

mb

 
Guest

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Tue Oct 10, 2000 9:00 am

VirginA340,

I got the article from the WSJ just before. Looks like the MD-11 is going to go down as a bad aircraft. That article was very interesting.

No MD-11 flights for me. If they found so many problems you can be guaranteed they'll be some more that were left out.

mb
 
Guest

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Tue Oct 10, 2000 9:23 am

Fanofjets, I also have that book, and I must say that my favorite candidate for the worst a/c is the "Christmas Bullet". Hopefully you've read that one? Great story- cracks me up every time at how slick Dr. Christmas was, and how dumb everyone else was!
As far as the worst civilian airliner, if this were 20 years ago, I bet the forum would be ringing with cries of "Concorde!". Now, the Concorde has 25 years of service behind it with only one fatal crash. Incredibly impressive, considering that only 16 were built!
As far as what we'd call the worst of modern times? Probably the Dassault-Breguet Mercure, though the plane's faults weren't its own doing. A bit of crappy design work gave the plane more pax than the B737-200 it was put up against, but less range than the average lawnmower.
I'll also put the Comet 1 (but ONLY the 1!) up here, as it had serious problems from the start. Fortunately, the Comet 4 came out fixing the flaws. Unfortunately (for the Comet), so did the B707...
 
dustweek
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 1999 10:55 am

Worst Is First

Tue Oct 10, 2000 9:32 am

The very worst plane was the first plane- the Wright Flyer flown at Kittihawk. They've been getting better ever since. The comet was the worst jet because it was the first jet.
 
fanofjets
Posts: 1978
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2000 2:26 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Tue Oct 10, 2000 10:06 am

Dear N156F,

I have to agree with you regarding the Christmas Bullet. The thought of someone designing a plane with wings so flimsy that they flapped like a bird's and that designer saying the plane was supposed to do that boggles the mind. I also like Yenne's description of the Convair Pogo, which owing to its vertical stance had excellent visibility for take off. But there was one problem: the pilot couldn't see the ground while attempting a landing. Oops!

As for the Comet, while the Comet 4 was by no means the best aircraft it certainly wasn't the worst. As for the Comet 1 (and yes, only the Comet 1), the jury is still out: the plane did have a deplorable safety record, but it was also the first of its kind, and lessons learned from that aircraft benefitted every other jetliner to come. Nevertheless, good or bad, I still maintain that both models of the Comet are aviation classics.
The aeroplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
 
Fokplanes
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 9:13 pm

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Tue Oct 10, 2000 10:26 am

I think the Bae 146 is one of the worst aircraft ever build. That's why US-air replaced all their BAE 146 aircraft by the wonderful Fokker 100 shortly after the 4 engine fuel wasting aircraft was introduced.

regards fokplanes
 
Gregg
Posts: 313
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2000 12:49 pm

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Tue Oct 10, 2000 12:11 pm

fokplanes,

I think Usairways aquired the BAe 146 from PSA and used them only in California (flights that both took on and landed in California). They no longer have inter-california flights. The Fokker's are used on east coast flights, and they replaced BAC-111, F-28s.

Gregg
 
DL727-200adv
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2000 10:23 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Tue Oct 10, 2000 2:54 pm

If you are referring to the worst commercial jet aircraft that were/are widely used you can put my vote for the DC-10/MD-11’s as the worst. The original Comets rank up there as well.

DL727-200adv
 
Guest

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Tue Oct 10, 2000 3:12 pm

Saying that the BAE 146 and the B1900C or D model are bad aircraft is silly. These aircraft are capable of doing things other aircraft could never do. These aircraft are great in the mountains, the B1900 has great take off and landing distances. The BAE 146 allows part 121 operations into airports where twin RJ's just can't do it. Also, just because some turbo props are a little noisy inside does not mean the aircraft is a piece of crap. You people from riddle shouln't be bagging on the B1900 so much, you will be lucky to fly any twin right out of school.
 
RIX
Posts: 1589
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2000 4:46 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Wed Oct 11, 2000 12:28 am

To say Comet 1 and Concorde were the worst is more than ridiculous. Let's compare apples to apples. Or, if we take a formal approach - of course, they are the worst - together with Kittihawk. Did we need a whole new topic for this? 
 
Guest

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Wed Oct 11, 2000 1:04 am

DC-10 DC-10 DC-10 DC-10 May that aircrafts memory be despised forever!!!!!!
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6419
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Wed Oct 11, 2000 1:34 am

It puzzles me that so many contributions on this thread can avoid mentioning the DC-7.
This the last Douglas prop liner was plagued by so many shortcomings. And when the jets finally showed up in the late fifties, when the DC-7s were still new, then they were the first to be put aside and used for fire exercises. While the older brothers, DC-6, DC-4 and DC-3 kept on flying.
Anyway I wouldn't automatically judge the DC-7 as the worst of all. In its time it also made some remarkable "firsts" like for instance linking Scandinavia with the US west coast and Japan over the North Pole.
Best regards, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
BOEING747-700
Posts: 1356
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2000 5:21 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Wed Oct 11, 2000 2:23 am

My opinion of my least liked aircraft would be the DC8 from Eastern Airlines. I flew that thing to Florida onece back in the 80's and man oh man was it the most ugliest thing I have ever flowen? Yes it was.
 
Trident
Posts: 477
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2000 4:49 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Wed Oct 11, 2000 3:48 am

It depends on what criteria you are basing "worst" on. Some perfectly good aircraft failed to sell because of inadequate market research (eg, Vickers VC-10). Some dodgy aircraft were built in reasonable numbers (DC-10?). I think any 'plane that fails to meet its designers's original operational targets must be considered bad. Also, 'planes with poor structural integrity or inadequate engines must also be included.
A short list of my suggestions -
Comet 1
DC-5
DC-4E
Brabazon
Trident
Tu-144
DC-10
MD-11
L-188 Electra (before it was fixed)
Avro Tudor
Handley Page Hermes
 
EyeSky
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 4:52 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Wed Oct 11, 2000 4:02 am

Trident,

You make a very good point. As long you're at it, don't leave out the Martin 202. Five crashes in less than 2 years nearly put Northwest out of business. Martin got the structural problems with them taken care of but most 202's moved out of main line service as soon as Eastern, Northwest and TWA could replace them.

EyeSky


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © John P. Stewart

 
VC-10
Posts: 3546
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Wed Oct 11, 2000 4:39 am

As has already been said "worst" depends on what critera is used.

What I would do is dispute the Comet, VC10 & Trident going in the list.

The Comet was on the frontiers of technology for the time. It failed because there was no data on the strains & stresses of operating repeatedly at the sort of altitude the Comet flew at. One wonders what would have happened if the 707 had been the first jet pax a/c.

The VC10 was very popular with its passengers. People were known to delay their travel arrangements so they could fly on a '10 rather than a 707. This was true right into the 747 era. The VC10 failed because Vickers listened too closely to what BOAC wanted. In the end BOAC got exactly the a/c they specified and publically said it was no good. That didn't help the sales team, & neither did the Americans paying for runways to be lengthened so a 707 could carry what a VC10 could from the short runway. History now shows that the VC10 was cheaper to operate than the 707.

The original Trident was 727 size and would have beaten the 727 into service but BEA said it was too big. As a result the a/c was cut down & the original engine was cancelled. The upshot was when they stretched the a/c there was no suitable engine that was powerful enough to make the a/c truely competative.

To sum up these two a/c were screwed by the national airlines.
 
caravelle
Posts: 656
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 4:33 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Wed Oct 11, 2000 4:53 am

This latest post I do like. Informed and intelligent. Worst aircraft built must be Wilbur and Orvil's. Last century fame, but hey they started the biz....
Trains and boats and planes....
 
caravelle
Posts: 656
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 4:33 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Wed Oct 11, 2000 4:53 am

This latest post I do like. Informed and intelligent. Worst aircraft built must be Wilbur and Orvil's. Last century fame, but hey they started the biz....
Trains and boats and planes....
 
caravelle
Posts: 656
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 4:33 am

Two Postings Above Are Identical Sorry.

Wed Oct 11, 2000 5:01 am

An error of fingers. I hope you don't waste your time....
Trains and boats and planes....
 
philb
Posts: 2645
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 5:53 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Wed Oct 11, 2000 5:24 am

Well said VC10.

As to someone having a go at the DC7, I think you are talking about the DC7c, altogether a different animal.

Basically, The DC7 and DC7B were a stretched, re-engined DC6B, built to meet the needs of a number of US and world airlines and served, in moderate numbers,
throughout the fifties. The engines did cause problems and when the ultra long range 7c came along it inherited these.

The problem with the 7c was timing. No-one, not even Douglas, had any idea what would be the reaction when the 707 and DC8 were announced. The mad rush for jets killed the 7c just as soon as intercontinental and transcontinental jets were delivered in quantity.

The DC7 series was withdrawn far faster than the DC6 series because the engines were thirsty and expensive to maintain - but that didn't make it a bad aircraft.
 
VC-10
Posts: 3546
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Wed Oct 11, 2000 5:48 am

PhilB

You have reminded me of the story of the VC10's predecessor the Vickers V1000.

The V1000 was, for it's time (1956), a highly advanced jet powered aircraft and was being built for the RAF & BOAC. For political reasons the RAF order was cancelled and BOAC were asked if they wanted to continue. The reply was 'No' as turbo-props were the future for long range travel & the Bristol Brittania was ordered

The V1000 was cancelled 6 months before its first flight. Had it been built it would have been in service before the 707 and would have out performed it. The VC10 would then have been the next step on from the V1000.

Six months after the V1000 was cancelled BOAC ordered the 707.
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6419
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Wed Oct 11, 2000 6:52 am

PhilB: It was me mentioning the DC-7, and you are right, I should have been more specific, I meant the 7C - Seven Seas. And you are also right, it was engine problems and engine maintenance costs which killed it so fast. Over here it was called "the world's largest three engined airliner" - they said that it hardly ever landed with all four props spinning. That name of course disappeared when the tri-jets arrived on the scene, but then the Seven Seas were practically gone already. Only a few soldiered on a few more years with the very first charter airlines which cramped a hundred pax into the tiny cabin and dumped them on sunny Mediterranian beaches at bargain costs.

Trident: It is of course a surprice that you include the Trident in your fine list of bad planes. But I think that I agree with Caravelle, that Trident and VC-10 should be removed from your list. The Trident was a good plane. It was fully nose to nose to the competing B727-100. And the VC-10 was a great and much loved plane with no bad habits whatsoever.

The main reason why they failed to compete on the world market was - I think - that all resources were put into the Concorde. Just imagine what would have happened if the same resources had been put into developing the Trident and VC-10 as on the 727 and DC-8, which were head on competitors in the beginning of their careers. But the supersonic race was on. Subsonic airliners were considered "yesterday's technology" not worth investing in. 30 years later we know what a huge failure it was.

I remember very well when I first time saw the plans for the B747 around the mid 60'es. I was thinking "What is that? Haven't Boeing discovered yet that the sound barrier has been broken? How can they hope - in the 70'es - to sell a slightly modernised B-52 bomber plane with windows?" But I was not alone. The French and British politicians in power were no less stupid than me.
So was the "can do attitude" of the sixties. Hell, we had almost reached the Moon, and soon we would be heading for the stars!!!

Best regards, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
philb
Posts: 2645
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 5:53 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Wed Oct 11, 2000 7:18 am

VC10:

Can you point me to any website detailing the V1000 pls?.

I have a friend who wants to read about the project but I have tried the main search engines without success. The only detail I've ever seen on the project was in print, mainly in VC10 monographs, or Vickers history.

Prebennorholm:

I went to Chandler, near Phoenix, in 1995 and was lucky to see both DC7s and DC7cs, some of the latter were still active and one was ex BOAC, which turned out to be the very same aircraft I logged as my first DC7c at Manchester in 1957. Whatever their shortcomings they were a fascinating aircraft.

I remember eating sandwiches in the cockpit of DC7cF N732PA, Clipper Bald Eagle, at Shannon in 1963, just before it was retired and its name was given to a B707.

I also remember going out to meet a KLM DC7cF at a very wet early September midnight, having been in the Shannon control tower as the aircraft was on finals in pretty much minima conditions.

On gaining the cockpit, I found the crew wearing their very wet caps and raincoats as the cockpit ceiling was dripping wet. How it maintained pressure at altitude I'm not sure.
 
Guest

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Wed Oct 11, 2000 7:50 am

what about the Dassault Mercure 100? Only Air Inter operatd it? any good?
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6419
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Wed Oct 11, 2000 8:51 am

Sea_Tac2000,
The Mercure was late. The competitors - and they were many - had run away with the market when it appeared on the scene.
Twelve planes built, twelve planes retired 25 years later after tough service every day and dozens of thousands of cycles each with Air Inter on short French domestic routes.
Don't call that a bad plane. An economic failure for the producer, yes! But a bad plane, no.
It has been criticised for its short range. They had the range which the sole customer specified. If other customers had ordered different payload/range specs, then they would have got that. The A320 family offers at least fifteen different payload/range combinations today. The 737NG family is no different. The Mercure would have been the same if it had been produced in numbers. But it came too late and hit an already overfilled market.
Best regards, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Guest

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Wed Oct 11, 2000 9:31 am

I agree that the DC-10 was poorly designed and rushed into service causing many accidents like the Turkish Airlines crash outside Paris in 1974 because of a faulty cargo door. And because of the way the 3 hydraulic lines were designed side by side and the plane didn't have a slat locking system is what caused AA 191 to roll over and crash after one of it's wing engines tore off severing the hydraulic lines and causing the slats on that wing to retract.
 
Guest

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Wed Oct 11, 2000 11:00 am

aDC-10crashed atSUX.

That says it all....

Corey777
 
RIX
Posts: 1589
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2000 4:46 am

RE: Preben

Wed Oct 11, 2000 10:54 pm

I'm not quite sure Trident and VC-10 were not such a success because all resources were put into Concorde. Both Trident and VC-10 were designed to match their launch customers specifications, ... - you know what happened then (probably better than me). And none of you or French and British politicians in power were stupid: Concorde gave much more to the aircraft industry - including experience of international cooperation - than possible development of any other design could give. Even if we still are not heading for the stars!  
 
dc10
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:53 pm

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Wed Oct 11, 2000 11:25 pm

For me, it's the Il 86: short range and very noisy.
DC10 had bad luck, but it's true that's it's not a very good aircraft (but he looks great!); L-1011 was more reliable.
regards
DC10
 
RIX
Posts: 1589
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2000 4:46 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Thu Oct 12, 2000 12:50 am

Il86? Are you kidding?! One of a very few airliners that never crashed!! To oppose it to DC10?!!
 
Ilyushin96M
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 1999 3:15 am

RE: Worst Aircraft Ever Built

Thu Oct 12, 2000 1:06 am

This is a hard one to respond to, because "worst aircraft" has different meanings for everyone.

For me, the DC-10 is the worst. I've never flown in one that felt stable in the air, that didn't shake and rattle FAR more than any aircraft I've ever flown in. It's the only airliner I don't feel 100% safe in. And look at all the crashes they've had, and the reasons for them. I think the DC-10 has served its purpose despite its flaws, and now should be allowed to go the way of the dinosaurs.

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