airnorth
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Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:04 pm

I stumbled across this a couple minutes ago, and couldnt find it posted yet.
If it has been posted sorry for the dupe, and please delete. I think this is the first A380 to be grounded due to cracks?


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/world...Fqantas-grounds-a380-28222693.html

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/travel/n...found/story-fn32891l-1226265336961
 
Daysleeper
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:20 pm

Doesn't this just mean that they have taken it out of service to be repaired? Which i'd assume to be normal practise as access would be a little diffecult at 30,000 feet
 
AA737-823
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:22 pm

No it isn't, it's spot on.
The plane is grounded.
So that they can repair cracks.

Dramatic or not, 'tis the scenario they're facing.

If the repairs are causing the airplane to miss scheduled flights, then the plane is "GROUNDED."
Bummer.

[Edited 2012-02-08 00:43:21 by SA7700]
 
Milesdependent
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:45 pm

Any idea which flights have been affected by this grounding? I'm flying QF11 SYD-LAX in ~ 2 weeks so hopefully not that one!
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:46 pm

Why all the shield raising?

It IS grounded...
Others have been already, more will be for sure until the issue is fixed.
It's good news ya know.

This is probably the silver lining of the QF engine mishap. The issue got detected early thanks to it.
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EK413
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:44 pm

Quoting MilesDependent (Reply 6):
Any idea which flights have been affected by this grounding? I'm flying QF11 SYD-LAX in ~ 2 weeks so hopefully not that one!

If I am not mistaken I believe the SYD-LAX services are affected... Will confirm...

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roseflyer
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:55 pm

An airplane got grounded after a mandatory inspection found something. I praise Airbus and Qantas for having inspections that found a legitimate problem. That's a good thing.

Airplanes going Out of Service due to cracks is relatively common in the aviation world. Structural components do have problems. Usually it is fatigue related and found on heavy checks after 10+ years in operation. However problems in production that require inspections do happen on all fleets.

This isn't a whole lot different then Boeing finding delamination on one 787 and tracking it down to a manufacturing process. In both cases, a problem one airplane led to inspections of the fleet. When they find something, it will get fixed. There is a structural repair manual for a reason.

I would not expect it to be out of service for more than a few days unless serious rework is required. The fact that this made news is because it is an airplane that gets a lot of attention being operated by an airline that gets a lot of attention. Odds are that there are other airplanes grounded in the world due to cracks found during an inspection, however no one would pay attention to AA grounding an MD80 due to cracks or LH grounding a 733 due to cracks. No one would likely even care either.
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Sydscott
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:57 pm

Interestingly enough the aircraft that is out of service was also the one involved in the severe turbulenece incident over India early last month. The Engineers say that incident and what has been found aren't linked but it's an interesting link nonetheless considering this A380 is one of the more recent deliveries to QF. (January 2010).

It'll also be interesting to see what Airbus says considering these cracks, and the one's found on other operators A380's, aren't the same even though they both effect the wing. Maybe there is a manufacturing process at Airbus which needs to be looked at and revised?
 
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:15 am

Quoting sydscott (Reply 11):

It'll also be interesting to see what Airbus says considering these cracks, and the one's found on other operators A380's, aren't the same even though they both effect the wing. Maybe there is a manufacturing process at Airbus which needs to be looked at and revised?

I have no doubt that their quality investigations group is analyzing the problem and researching what led to the manufacturing defect and fixing the problem. It's a well established process that is used to work such problems. It happens even on mature designs where cracks suddenly start appearing where they had not been before. There are engineers who specialize in getting down to the detail of what causes the problems and what corrective action is taken.

Part of maintaining a production certificate requires such an investigative group. I'm sure they'll fix it and find route cause. They always do.
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zeke
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:29 am

Quoting airnorth (Thread starter):
I think this is the first A380 to be grounded due to cracks?

Every transport aircraft is normally "grounded" after each flight, until it is released for its next flight. The "dumb" public/media have little idea of how the process works, so they think this is something different.

Any sort of maintenance work, be it an oil uplift, refuel, computer reset, wheel change, ramp rash etc all needs to be written up, and cleared before the aircraft is released. Same with this, this aircraft was already undergoing a schedule inspections/check, it was not about to go anywhere. It was already "grounded" before they found these cracks.

Fact is until an aircraft is actually released for its next service, which maybe only 10-15 min before pushback in many cases, it is technically always "grounded".
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qf340500
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:42 am

grounded... what a BS... my god, how are they supposed to do the repairworks as instructed by Airbus??? In the air? While taxiing? These journalists need a proper editor next to them!

So what about SQ having grounded 6 (or so) of their A380 fleet for repairworks? Or Emirates? Nothing about grounding here in the news... are they doing it midlight??????  

come on, stop bashing QF for doing their JOB!!!

Conspiracy theory: Was the journalist paid by the unions?
 
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:47 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 14):

Fact is until an aircraft is actually released for its next service, which maybe only 10-15 min before pushback in many cases, it is technically always "grounded".

Yes the common industry terms for it are AOG "Aircraft on Ground" or OTS "Out of Service". I think they are referring to this since an airplane is not considered AOG or OTS during scheduled maintenance. AOG and OTS are for unscheduled maintenance and are metrics closely watched by airlines since they can impact the operation. If the airplane is "grounded" for scheduled maintenance, then that doesn't impact the schedule or operation since that airplane is scheduled to be on the ground just as other are scheduled for flights.
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:50 am

I REALLY fail to understand why members on this site get so defensive over a freakin' airplane. Get over it...pronto. This isn't an isolated incident either...this happens on every Airbus and Boeing thread. It got old 10 years ago.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 9):
An airplane got grounded after a mandatory inspection found something. I praise Airbus and Qantas for having inspections that found a legitimate problem. That's a good thing.

Thank you for attempting to bring some form of common sense to the thread.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 7):
This is probably the silver lining of the QF engine mishap. The issue got detected early thanks to it.

This was my initial thought as well when the information regarding cracks first surfaced.
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:06 am

The A380 is just having a little teething problem, all these wing problem will get solved.
 
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:15 am

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 17):
This was my initial thought as well when the information regarding cracks first surfaced.

It's interesting though that according to QF none of their A380's are effected by the cracks that have been found on SQ and EK A380's. So there could be two different, but obviously related, manufacturing or assembly problems which Airbus is no doubt looking at right now regarding the A380 wings.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 12):
Part of maintaining a production certificate requires such an investigative group. I'm sure they'll fix it and find route cause. They always do.

Indeed. It'll be interesting to see how many A380's are effected and by which identified cracking problem.
 
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EK413
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:16 am

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 18):
The A380 is just having a little teething problem, all these wing problem will get solved.

Agreed... But it's the A380 remember and anything revolving around the A380 hits the headlines just like any QF incidents...

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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:22 am

Quoting sydscott (Reply 19):
It's interesting though that according to QF none of their A380's are effected by the cracks that have been found on SQ and EK A380's.

You may be right. I recall reading that somewhere on the internet (can't remember where or when), but I can't verify it.
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:25 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 20):
Agreed... But it's the A380 remember and anything revolving around the A380 hits the headlines just like any QF incidents...

Quite so. One would hope to see an end some day.  
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:37 am

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 9):
An airplane got grounded after a mandatory inspection found something. I praise Airbus and Qantas for having inspections that found a legitimate problem. That's a good thing.

Definitely! Isn´t it great that "we" find these things beforehand!??
Look at the safety-record of B777 & A340……..and many other modern jets (with some fatal crashes perhaps); isn´t it amazing how pro-active this industry has become!?

Kudos, "ground" A380, ground B787, A350, B797, A360 and whatever else I may see in my lifetime………at the end of the day it leads to an increased safety for ourselves; the billions of people which partially consists of crew, and oh so many yearly passengers.


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Milesdependent
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:05 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 8):
If I am not mistaken I believe the SYD-LAX services are affected... Will confirm...

That's annoying - I've got the prized 80A and my mate is in the second-prized 71D 

Any more udpates?
 
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:10 am

Yet another spate of QF bashing , when will the Aussie media grow a brain and get over this Qantas fixation. Perhaps they need to here that this type of thing is common within the ENTIRE airline indusrty and not only Qantas.

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zeke
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:11 am

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 12):


Exactly, if the aircraft is undergoing scheduled maintenance, this is nothing more than a beat up. I suspect what is driving this is the QF mechanics union, still trying to push for an A380 maintenance facility in house. QF have already said that A380 heavy maintenance is being outsourced, and with the planned removal of the 767 and 747 fleets, closing of their engine repair facility, and outsourcing 787 maintenance means the number of mechanics QF will needs in the future will reduce.

In my view this is nothing more than trying to get public support/pressure on QF management to build the A380 facility so the QF mechanics have job security.

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 14):

The A380 is just having a little teething problem, all these wing problem will get solved.

This would have nothing really to do with the airraft being an A380, or the airline being QF. QF would have found and repaired cracks on every aircraft in thir fleet. They are normally found on schedule checks like this.
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clickhappy
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:58 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 22):
if the aircraft is undergoing scheduled maintenance

Just how often do A380's get detailed wing-rib assembly maintenance as "regular maintenance?"

Seems this A380 has had two wing inspections in 4 weeks, one as "routine checks after the turbulence incident," and the other as ""additional precautionary inspections" on the wings at Airbus' request."

While we all laud both Airbus and Qantas for their attention to the safety of their passengers, it is a silly to say this was "scheduled maintenance."

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/qantas-grounds...inding-cracks-wings-013730967.html
 
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EK413
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:31 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 6):
Quoting MilesDependent (Reply 20):

SYD - LAX flights are effected with todays QF011 sub with a B744 VH-OEF...
QF011 on 9/02/12 will be an A380 VH-OQL...& just adding to the discussion aircraft under going checks is VH-OQK...

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bill142
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:39 am

Quoting QF340500 (Reply 11):
Conspiracy theory: Was the journalist paid by the unions?

Probably. Given then amount of bad press Qantas gets about this and other issues, they've either upset someone highly influential in the media circles or the journalists are on the take from unions.

When it comes to maintenance and the media in this country, Qantas are damned if they do, damned if they don't and if this had happened to Virgin it would have barely gotten a mention. As someone mentioned earlier, this is a silver lining from tha QF 31 incident.
 
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:43 am

Quoting sydscott (Reply 8):
considering this A380 is one of the more recent deliveries to QF. (January 2010).

Airbus said they have analysed this problem and will or have already changed the production accordingly. So I would think that all A 380s built until now (about 95 airframes) will have this issue sooner or later. It's just that for the newer airframes the required works can be done during regular maintenance works.
 
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:55 am

Can anyone clarify if these are type 1 or 2 cracks that are being repaired.

Based only on what i have read on A-Net changing the production process will only help type 1 cracks, but type 2 are said to be fatigue related.

I would guess that it is actually the type 2 cracks which are being repaired, because if I understand correctly the type 1 cracks only need toi be checked first c check.


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PlaneInsomniac
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:01 am

German press is reporting that ALL Qantas A380s have been grounded pending further inspections:
http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/0,1518,813966,00.html

I heard the same thing this morning on the radio as a major news item, as well. Are these journalists getting it wrong, or is it really that bad?
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N14AZ
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:02 am

aero.de is now reporting that QF has stopped all A 380-flights. Is that true?
http://www.aero.de/news-14431/Qantas-stoppt-alle-A380-Fluege.html
 
dynamicsguy
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:37 am

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 27):
Can anyone clarify if these are type 1 or 2 cracks that are being repaired.

From the The Age:

Quote:
"This type of cracking is different from the 'type two' cracking found on certain A380s in the global fleet, which is now the subject of a European airworthiness directive,'' a spokesman said. ''To date, type-two cracking has not been found on Qantas aircraft.''
 
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EK413
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:40 am

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 28):
German press is reporting that ALL Qantas A380s have been grounded pending further inspections:
http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unt....html
Quoting N14AZ (Reply 29):
aero.de is now reporting that QF has stopped all A 380-flights. Is that true?

All QF A380 services are operating as per normal ops except for the QF011 which was downgraded to a B744ER VH-OEF... Tonight's QF031 VH-OQE service has departed SYD 53 minutes behind schedule...

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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:47 am

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 27):
Can anyone clarify if these are type 1 or 2 cracks that are being repaired.

Type 1 cracks...

EK413
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standby87
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:11 am

Confusion in Europe this morning.

N14AZ is correct:
German and Swiss Press are reporting ALL QF A380s are grounded

eg.
http://www.nzz.ch/nachrichten/starts...tliche_a380-fluege_1.14865888.html
http://www.20min.ch/finance/dossier/...groundet-ihre-A380-Flotte-15430339

You don't need German to understand:

"Die australische Fluggesellschaft Qantas hat alle Flüge mit dem Riesenairbus A380 gestoppt."

Hopefully something has got "lost in translation" here!

[Edited 2012-02-08 01:16:00]
 
qf340500
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:17 am

EASA has just announced that they may put out an airworthiness directive to check ALL A380 wings on cracks, not only the one with more cycles.

Nothing mentioned of grounding all fleet... also nothing on QF on Bloomberg and on QF stock exchange news search
 
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:23 am

Quoting standby87 (Reply 32):
Hopefully something has got "lost in translation" here!

These reports all seem to go back to a news agency called dapd. It is possible they just got it wrong. I tend to believe our Australian members in this forum instead.
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lhr380
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:35 am

Nothing on any of the mainstream news outlets
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:42 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 31):

Unlike other A380 cracks – This type of cracking is different from the ‘type two’ cracking found on certain A380s in the global fleet, now the subject of a European airworthiness directive. To date, type two cracking has not been found on Qantas aircraft. Qantas A380s are not currently included to the airworthiness directive or required to undertake these inspections, because our A380s have not accumulated the same number of flight cycles as aircraft operated by other airlines.

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N14AZ
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:49 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 36):
This type of cracking is different from the ‘type two’ cracking found on certain A380s in the global fleet, now the subject of a European airworthiness directive

So are we now talking about a "type three" cracking?
 
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N14AZ
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:51 am

Quote:
An EASA spokesman said: "In view of the outcome of those checks, it was decided to expand them to the entire fleet currently in operation."

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16942361
 
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EPA001
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:16 am

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 37):
So are we now talking about a "type three" cracking?


Maybe, the data is not detailed enough at this point in time.  .

Quoting standby87 (Reply 32):
German and Swiss Press are reporting ALL QF A380s are grounded


I read that this morning as well. Good to hear that it is only 1 aircraft. But still, all A380's in service will need the modifications I guess.
 
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EK413
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:32 am

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 37):
Quoting EK413 (Reply 36):
This type of cracking is different from the ‘type two’ cracking found on certain A380s in the global fleet, now the subject of a European airworthiness directive

So are we now talking about a "type three" cracking?

As far I know it QF A380's are not affected... The report isn't detailed enough to explain the severity of the crack issue's...
Just to clear the air, ALL QF A380 services operating as per normal ops... The only aircraft grounded is VH-OQF 'Charles Kingsford Smith'...

EK413

[Edited 2012-02-08 03:25:53]

[Edited 2012-02-08 03:31:54]
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SKAirbus
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:37 am

Glad to see that Airbus are so proactive in identifying and fixing these issues.

Just a pity that the press are overanalysing this as per usual. I bet the pro-Boeing contingent here are having a field day. I'm just waiting for someone to suggest that airlines will start cancelling and that it is over for Airbus.
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bralo20
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:02 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 40):
The only aircraft grounded is VH-OQK...

Sure about that? I've heard that it was VH-OQF which was grounded?

OQF vs OQK is quite a big difference, the first one is a 3yo bird while the other is is only months old. If true that OQK is grounded then it could be a big(ger) problem if those cracks are appearing on a bird that is only months old...

[Edited 2012-02-08 03:04:25]
 
Flying Belgian
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:08 am

It seems now very likely that the European Authorities will extend its request for inspections to ALL A380 on duty.

AESA was cited by Reuters today and is a result of QF's discovery on VH-OQF.

Inspections should take place GRADUALLY.
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EK413
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:25 am

Quoting Bralo20 (Reply 42):
Sure about that? I've heard that it was VH-OQF which was grounded?

Correction... The aircraft is VH-OQF thanks for pointing that out...

EK413
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Daysleeper
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:31 am

I’m confused as to why this is any different to the checks and repairs other A380 operators have done. The BBC state that its expected back into service in less than a week so what’s the big deal here?

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 41):
I'm just waiting for someone to suggest that airlines will start cancelling and that it is over for Airbus.

Yeah, well everyone knows the A380 was a mistake and the only reason it has more orders than both the 747 and 767 5 years after its EIS is because Airbus gave them away
 
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:32 am

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 43):
It seems now very likely that the European Authorities will extend its request for inspections to ALL A380 on duty.

Confirmed by EASA that inspections of all A380s in service will be required; using electrical H/F equipment instead of just visual inspections:-

"Fouda said the revised directive will require A380 operators to check for cracks using non-destructive techniques involving special equipment that detects cracks using high-frequency electrical currents. Up to now, the inspections have been visual."

Also confirmed that any immediate fixes will be considered 'interim,' and that a permanent fix is likely to be developed and implemented later:-

"EASA's Fouda said operators that discover cracks must get them repaired using an interim fix. Airbus is working on a permanent solution for the affected planes that will be introduced after it has been approved by EASA, probably during the summer, he said."

"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
NAV20
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:44 am

Sorry, link didn't post and now I can't edit either. Same story here:-

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...f-wings-cracks-regulator-says.html
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
jetfuel
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:45 am

The cracks really are a lot more serious than first suspected..... I do hope that the entire fleets are not grounded
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
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EK413
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RE: Qantas Grounds One A380 Due To New Cracks

Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:46 am

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 45):
The BBC state that its expected back into service in less than a week so what’s the big deal here?

1) Airbus
2) QF

Any of the 2 grabs the media attention...

It's already been stated VH-OQF will return to service in less than a week...

EK413
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