AIR MALTA
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IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:38 am

IB is to move its operation to Terminal 5 at LHR from March 25. Nothing about BA moving some of its flights to T3. Is there enough space for IB there?

https://lfn.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4368
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vhtje
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:46 am

Thanks for posting.

The links says,

Quoting Linked Article (Thread starter):
all Iberia flights operating between London Heathrow and Madrid will depart from and arrive at London Heathrow Terminal 5 and will have a new BA flight number

Does that mean they will not have an IB flight number?
 
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Alsatian
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:59 am

Quoting vhtje (Reply 1):
Does that mean they will not have an IB flight number?

I don' t think so. BA' s new code share flights number to Madrid are not loaded yet for the summer season.
Ok I am French but I am not on strike
 
lhr380
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:14 am

Quoting AIR MALTA (Thread starter):

Its only 7 flights in and out so im sure there is space for them. Still have to find out what will happen with the IB Handling staff.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
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downtown273
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:17 am

Quoting vhtje (Reply 1):
Does that mean they will not have an IB flight number?

If the flight is operated by Iberia it should definitely have an IB flight number, right? From what I understand, they will keep their IB flight numbers, but the BA codeshare flight numbers will change. Probably this will allow BA to say flight numbers BAx000 to BAx999 depart from T3 - the rest from T5.
 
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vhtje
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:05 pm

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 4):
Probably this will allow BA to say flight numbers BAx000 to BAx999 depart from T3 - the rest from T5.

Of course - makes perfect sense - thanks for the reply. Really, how stupid of me!
 
commavia
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:06 pm

Well I guess this should put to rest the oft-repeated claim that somehow T5 is incapable of ever handling flights by any airlines besides BA. Yes, I realize that Iberia is owned by the same holding company as BA, but Iberia is still legally and operationally a different airline. When I suggested that in order for AA and BA to fully harness the value of their high-frequency joint "shuttles" to a few U.S. cities, AA would need to move some flights to T5, I was told over and over that it was
(a) impossible to fit any additional flights into T5, and (b) T5 was so specialized for BA's operations that it couldn't possibly handle any other airline's flights. Hmmm ...
 
lhr380
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:18 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 6):
When I suggested that in order for AA and BA to fully harness the value of their high-frequency joint "shuttles" to a few U.S. cities, AA would need to move some flights to T5,

Moving a long haul aircraft of AA and a short-haul aircraft like IB are totally different things. AA have lounges and have a good base in T3, IB do not. Ticketing and lounges are handled by BA so its very simple to move, what. 5 flights over to T5 that are spread thru out the day and are on the ground for a very short time.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
skipness1E
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:25 pm

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 4):
Probably this will allow BA to say flight numbers BAx000 to BAx999 depart from T3 - the rest from T5.

Alas no, it's not that simple.

Quoting commavia (Reply 6):
When I suggested that in order for AA and BA to fully harness the value of their high-frequency joint "shuttles" to a few U.S. cities, AA would need to move some flights to T5, I was told over and over that it was

American would need to self handle as per union agreements, BA handle Iberia on the ramp, they have in house staff over wing though. Iberia will have a single Airbus on the ground at any one time, American would have 2-3 B777s on the New York shuttle. Given T5B and T5C are maxxed out most of the day, they would have to shift three comparable BA long haul flights to T3. Moving a single Iberia Airbus flight would be able to use T5A and only displace one BA A320 series aircraft. You are not comparing like with like.
 
commavia
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:27 pm

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 7):
Moving a long haul aircraft of AA and a short-haul aircraft like IB are totally different things.

No question. A 767 or 777 will require different gates, and take up more space. But I was told repeatedly that T5 could not possibly ever handle any flight by another airline - widebody or otherwise - for a myriad of reasons. Again, apparently not.

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 7):
AA have lounges and have a good base in T3, IB do not.

... but that doesn't stop AA from moving a few flights to high-frequency "shuttle" cities to T5.

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 7):
Ticketing and lounges are handled by BA so its very simple to move, what.

Right, and ticketing and lounges for any AA flights moved to T5 could also be handled just as well by BA, as these Iberia flights will be.

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 7):
5 flights over to T5 that are spread thru out the day and are on the ground for a very short time.

I suggested, as an example, that AA move its five flights per day to JFK over to T5, and was told that was impossible.
 
SuperCaravelle
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:34 pm

Also, doesn't IB bring A340's to LHR? If they can bring them to T5, there shouldn't be a space problem for AA either.
 
lhr380
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:41 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 9):
Right, and ticketing and lounges for any AA flights moved to T5 could also be handled just as well by BA,

I very much doubt AA unions would want BA staff taking over their work. IB is different as they are owned by the same company, and in T3, all res and lounge is done by BA. AA is a different animal.

Quoting SuperCaravelle (Reply 10):
Also, doesn't IB bring A340's to LHR? If they can bring them to T5, there shouldn't be a space problem for AA either.

I dont think teh 340 can go onto a T5 stand? If not, it would be coached im sure.

Quoting commavia (Reply 9):
... but that doesn't stop AA from moving a few flights to high-frequency "shuttle" cities to T5.

Pray tell, where is the space going to come from. Thats one of the reasons an airline with an operation like AA wont come to 5. There is no long-haulspace, lounges would be even more busy then they are now, AA unions will not allow other airlines staff to handle them. Short haul IB, no problems! AA have dedicated lounges dedicated check in etc and use a totally different system to BA. There is no need for them to come to 5
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
skipness1E
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:58 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 9):
Right, and ticketing and lounges for any AA flights moved to T5 could also be handled just as well by BA, as these Iberia flights will be.

Nope you're assuming this and you are wrong. AA metal needs AA handling as per union agreement. There is NO ROOM in T5B and T5C without kicking more BA metal into T3. Also you are adding costs to the LHR operation as you now have a split terminal operation handled by two different parties.
 
richardw
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:59 pm

Does LHR-MAD really need such a high frequency?

Could it become a BA B767 and BA/IB A321 operated route only with a lower frequency?

[Edited 2012-02-08 05:04:19]
 
skipness1E
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:04 pm

Quoting SuperCaravelle (Reply 10):
Also, doesn't IB bring A340's to LHR? If they can bring them to T5, there shouldn't be a space problem for AA either.

Iberia is one gate on T5A at a time, American have 5-6 heavies on the deck at once, at least 2-3 B777s in from or out of JFK. That is clearly not the same thing regarding parking space. Does anyone know if Iberia will contine to self handle over wing or will it be all BA handling at T5?
Also moving JFK only to T5 means that American would no longer be rotating the fleet through LHR as the JFK flight would be going back to JFK rather than massive nuisance of towing from T5 to T3 then bring another B777 back with you. it dents operational flexibility having a multi terminal operation.
 
realsim
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:08 pm

Great news. Now all 13 flights from IAG to MAD will depart from T5, including 3 widebodies (at least today).

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 7):
Ticketing and lounges are handled by BA so its very simple to move, what. 5 flights over to T5 that are spread thru out the day and are on the ground for a very short time.

IB today operates 8 flights to LHR: 1x 340, 3x 321, 3x 320 and 1x 319.

One question: who handles Vueling at LHR?
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:17 pm

Quoting richardw (Reply 13):
Does LHR-MAD really need such a high frequency?

Yes, for connections to/from LHR & MAD and to compete against the LCCs.

It's taken a long time to make this move happen. Something odd seems to be going on with BA flight numbers for Iberia services which are moving from BA codeshare numbers to BA operated numbers (even though they are not actually BA operated) may be related to T5 systems issues.
 
lhr380
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:22 pm

Quoting richardw (Reply 13):
Could it become a BA B767 and BA/IB A321 operated route only with a lower frequency?

A lot of it is connections for both LHR and MAD

Quoting realsim (Reply 15):
One question: who handles Vueling at LHR?

Good Question
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SKAirbus
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:19 pm

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 11):

I dont think teh 340 can go onto a T5 stand? If not, it would be coached im sure.

If a 777-300ER can fit into Terminal 5C, I am sure the Iberia A343/346 can.

Bit of a strange question but can a 77W fit into T5B? Reason I ask is that you only ever see the BA 77Ws parted at T5C.
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skipness1E
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:35 pm

I have seen the B777-300ER at T5B, Vueling are handled by one of the ground handlers, non BA or Iberia. ASIG, Servisair, Menzies or Plane Handling.
 
GCPET
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:58 pm

Wasn't expecting Iberia to move to T5 yet because I was under the impression that there wasn't enough capacity for the whole of the BA network and that was the reason that some LH flights are operated out of T3.

GCPET
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Alsatian
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:54 pm

New BA' s code share flights are now loaded. Example with the first Iberia flight of the day :

Untill 24MAR :

LHR - MAD IB 3161 / BA 7053

From 25MAR :

LHR - MAD IB 3161 / BA 510
Ok I am French but I am not on strike
 
skipness1E
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:08 pm

BA long haul at T3 is restricted to joint venture services with QANTAS, three flights out late, three in early. T3 short haul is A320 and B763 only on a normal day and is split between alliances like Finnair to Helsinki already in T3 and those with low connectivity to long haul.
 
Speedbird2155
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:15 pm

IB in T5 will be treated as a BA flight for departs....the prime flight number will be a BA flight number and an IB codeshare, only difference is that it will be operated by IB. IB will follow all BA processes in T5 and staff will treat the flight as they would a BA flight.

As for the A340, this can and will be accommodated at T5.

BA has moved flights to T3 at the start of the winter schedule to make room for both the BA and IB flights, just that the IB flights didn't move at that time and will not move with the start of the summer schedule.
 
skipness1E
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:37 pm

So are Iberia dumping their LHR staff?
 
lhr380
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:40 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 24):

It looks like it? I guess there will be more news on that soon.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
EricR
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:57 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 12):
There is NO ROOM in T5B and T5C without kicking more BA metal into T3. Also you are adding costs to the LHR operation as you now have a split terminal operation handled by two different parties.

What are the longer term plans? Is there a plan to add a new terminal between T5C & T3 and could this new terminal possibly accomodate AA? Or is there a plan to connect T5 to the older terminals via underground walkway or tram?
 
nclmedic
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:12 pm

Quoting Speedbird2155 (Reply 23):
IB in T5 will be treated as a BA flight for departs....the prime flight number will be a BA flight number and an IB codeshare, only difference is that it will be operated by IB. IB will follow all BA processes in T5 and staff will treat the flight as they would a BA flight.

So to all intents and purposes this is just a BA flight with an aircraft painted a different colour, nothing free onboard and completely miserable cabin crew?
 
skipness1E
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:23 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 26):
Is there a plan to add a new terminal between T5C & T3 and could this new terminal possibly accomodate AA? Or is there a plan to connect T5 to the older terminals via underground walkway or tram?

Dear God no, it's way too far to walk. The way some people go on, you'd think it was a moon mission to connect between terminals.

There would be little point to a Terminal 5D as conformance at T5 would have to be raised beyond 35 minutes, as you would not get through security and two stops on a crowded train before getting to your gate. It would be a logistical pain in the backside, the T5 / T3 connection is an airliners.net invention.

The plan is to redevelop T3 along the lines of T5 and the new T2, American and Oneworld will remain there with facilities on par with the current T5.This is only a plan and is nothing concrete as yet.
 
skipness1E
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:42 pm

Quoting nclmedic (Reply 27):
So to all intents and purposes this is just a BA flight with an aircraft painted a different colour, nothing free onboard and completely miserable cabin crew?

It's what it's always been, an Iberia aircraft offering Iberia service levels code sharing with BA. Don't over complicate matters, it's the same with American and Finnair, the only BA thing is the prefix to the flight number on your ticket and lounge access if you get it. If you want a BA flight, it's easy to choose one when booking.
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:50 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 29):
It's what it's always been, an Iberia aircraft offering Iberia service levels code sharing with BA

Do you understand why the IB flights have a normal BA flight number out of T5?
Is there a legal reason? I see they have an IB flight number from MAD.
Never seen it before, must be something legal.
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:54 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 29):
It's what it's always been, an Iberia aircraft offering Iberia service levels code sharing with BA. Don't over complicate matters, it's the same with American and Finnair, the only BA thing is the prefix to the flight number on your ticket and lounge access if you get it. If you want a BA flight, it's easy to choose one when booking.

i think BA and IB should offer the same onboard product on those flights as people would get confused on how A BA service is BoB
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skipness1E
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:05 pm

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 31):
i think BA and IB should offer the same onboard product on those flights as people would get confused on how A BA service is BoB

The same is true of American Airlines flights internally in the US, the clue is the lack of the words "British Airways" on the side, code sharing is a complete joke half the time anyway, from a consumers viewpoint I mean, not a revenue viewpoint.
 
APYu
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:16 pm

BA will soon be BoB anyway on the short haul routes. Give it 12-18 months.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
skipness1E
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:28 pm

Quoting APYu (Reply 33):
BA will soon be BoB anyway on the short haul routes. Give it 12-18 months.

Yeah....that's not the case.
 
Speedbird2155
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:44 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 24):
So are Iberia dumping their LHR staff?

IB have very few staff at LHR. These largely consisted of ticketing agent, who have already moved over to BA. The agents you see presently in IB uniform are not IB staff but handling agents. The few IB staff are essentially the airport manager/IB Reps who will still be there. Don't think it is more than about 5 people.

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 30):
Do you understand why the IB flights have a normal BA flight number out of T5?

Simple operational decision by the 2 parties allowing BA to treat the IB flight as just any other BA flight rather than seeing it as a relationship where BA is a 'handling agent'. From an operational perspective the only difference is that the aircraft that will be at the gate will be different.
 
realsim
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:17 pm

Quoting nclmedic (Reply 27):
So to all intents and purposes this is just a BA flight with an aircraft painted a different colour, nothing free onboard and completely miserable cabin crew?

How many times have you travelled on board an IB aircraft? I've done it many times, and I can count with the fingers of my hand the times I've met a rude cabin crew. Anyway, I think the word "miserable" here is a lack of respect and a generalisation that doesn't show impartiality from your side. And I don't say it because I'm Spanish: I wouldn't say that about any airline, because rude and miserable people are found everywhere, but, luckily, not usually in aviation.

[Edited 2012-02-08 14:23:00]
 
laca773
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:23 am

Quoting Speedbird2155 (Reply 23):
IB in T5 will be treated as a BA flight for departs....the prime flight number will be a BA flight number and an IB codeshare, only difference is that it will be operated by IB. IB will follow all BA processes in T5 and staff will treat the flight as they would a BA flight.

As for the A340, this can and will be accommodated at T5.

BA has moved flights to T3 at the start of the winter schedule to make room for both the BA and IB flights, just that the IB flights didn't move at that time and will not move with the start of the summer schedule.

The A340 flight will probably board via a remote stand. Will any other IB cities be added to T5?

Quoting nclmedic (Reply 27):

So to all intents and purposes this is just a BA flight with an aircraft painted a different colour, nothing free onboard and completely miserable cabin crew?

I think we'll see IAG eventually drop this BOB stuff from IB. I'm sure they want a consistent product across the board.
 
skipness1E
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:48 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 37):
The A340 flight will probably board via a remote stand. Will any other IB cities be added to T5?

No, it really won't. As has been stated above, it's mainly the A343 we see and even the A346 fits onto T5 nicely. I would imagine that where possible they'll have the A343 on T5A.

As to adding more Iberia destinations to T5, there aren't any. The only LHR service they have nowadays is LHR-MAD.

[Edited 2012-02-08 16:49:03]
 
ATL
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:39 am

T5 is a beautiful terminal, with the airline occupying it being a great airline as well. Am the only one who would have a problem with an airline in the ranks of IB being in T5? I dunno, the 70's paintjob at T5..... lol also I like the unity of T5, and how it's all BA, it's fun  
 
nclmedic
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:03 am

Quoting realsim (Reply 36):
How many times have you travelled on board an IB aircraft?

My better half lives in MAD so I've been flying back forth 7-8 times a year, admittedly not always with IB, but often enough. Of course, there have been great staff, but overall when compared to BA it hasn't been great. The two companies don't offer a comparable product, so why should it be treated the same?

Quoting laca773 (Reply 37):
I think we'll see IAG eventually drop this BOB stuff from IB. I'm sure they want a consistent product across the board.

I have heard this as well - although as yet no announcement!

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 29):
it's the same with American and Finnair

It's not - AY would at least offer you a coffee and AA ex-LHR is obviously a long-haul service. Both you and I are well-informed enough to make a decision between IB and BA when we book, but I guarantee a sizable proportion of the flying public are not aware of the tie-up between the two airlines. Do you not think slapping the BA brand over everything except the hard product is going to be even more confusing?
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:14 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 38):
No, it really won't. As has been stated above, it's mainly the A343 we see and even the A346 fits onto T5 nicely. I would imagine that where possible they'll have the A343 on T5A.

I was part of the testing of T5 back in 2008 and back then there were Virgin A340-600s parked alongside T5B and also T5C when it was being constructed so shouldn't be an issue whatsoever. There are also two gates at T5A capable of handling aircraft of that size.

Quoting nclmedic (Reply 27):
So to all intents and purposes this is just a BA flight with an aircraft painted a different colour, nothing free onboard and completely miserable cabin crew?

Well they have something in common with BA then.. The miserable cabin crew!! Every BA flight I have been on in the last 2 years (and there are many!) the cabin crew have been foul, uninterested and just weird. I only fly them because of work and the lounge at T5.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (738), OSL-CPH (320), CPH-LHR (321), LHR-HEL (359), HEL-LHR (359)
 
lhr380
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:44 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 41):

You must be flying a different BA then me then
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: IB To Move To LHR T5 (25/3)

Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:00 pm

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 42):
You must be flying a different BA then me then

I fly Club a lot with work and you expect a certain level of service that just isn't there. Crew having general chit chat over the drinks trolleys, rude and short answers from them when asking a question and a general attitude. I think it is because BA are a lot less selective with who they employ now and there is still a lot of disenchantment after the strikes. Such a shame really.
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