LipeGIG
Topic Author
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AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:12 pm


As per Valor Newspaper in Brazil (today's edition), American Airlines CEO Tom Horton in a quick visit to Brazil this week besides the renegotiation of ERJ's with Brazilian Long Term Development Bank (BNDES), he said that a formal invitation for Tam to join Oneworld was made.

He expects a reply after April

AA have a very strong focus in Latin America, and also TAM have plans to further increase their operations in the United States during 2012 with the addition of 4 Boeing 77W on their routes from São Paulo GRU to both New York JFK and Miami. Rio's flights to New York will become daily and the route from Rio de Janeiro GIG to Miami is expected to be operated with A332's. Brasilia (BSB) and Belo Horizonte (CNF) flights are expected to become daily, each one with a single Boeing 767.

A link to the news story is not available for non subscribers.
http://www.valor.com.br/impresso/emp...rican-airlines-renegocia-com-bndes

(Portuguese only)

So we can expect AA+JJ and DL+G3... UA life in Brazil will be harder...
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
mogandoCI
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:24 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
So we can expect AA+JJ and DL+G3... UA life in Brazil will be harder...

If they can bring AviancaBrasil into StarAlliance (not too tall an order), then it'll relieve some of that pain.

Prior to JJ betraying their old partners, they didn't fly into any PMUA or PMCO hubs anyway.
 
realsim
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:52 pm

This may be the first move of a big "war" between the three alliances. However, there a two factors that may reduce that war: 1) if the authorities in Chile confirm that LATAM can't be in the alliance that AviancaTaca; 2) if DL decides they have enough with G3 and don't even try to speak with TAM.

Anyway, it's interesting that, unless they are allowed to have ATI or JV, AA and IB could have two of their biggest competitors in their alliance: LA and JJ. However, I assume it's better to have them besides you than in front of you.
 
migair54
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:57 pm

It could be a great addition to oneworld, excellent for AA but also for IB-BA... Brazil market has a huge potential in the future and also connecting out of GRU...

So finnally with LAN in Oneworld and TAM invited we can almos say for sure that the future LATAM will go towards OneWorld 100%....
 
AAIL86
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:57 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
So we can expect AA+JJ and DL+G3... UA life in Brazil will be harder...

With all the talk here and elsewhere about how AA is weak in Europe- at least they have a profitable foothold in LHR and partners throughout the continent. After this deal potentially goes through -Star in general, and UA in particular will be left holding the bag in Latin America. AV/TA does not help them much at all to the deep south and even AR now has a dance partner...
Next
 
jfk777
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:50 pm

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 4):
With all the talk here and elsewhere about how AA is weak in Europe- at least they have a profitable foothold in LHR and partners throughout the continent. After this deal potentially goes through -Star in general, and UA in particular will be left holding the bag in Latin America. AV/TA does not help them much at all to the deep south and even AR now has a dance partner...

The only answer for Star and AV is to grow Avianca Brasil into the second international airline in Brazil. That means A330 and A350 from GRU to FRA, MIA, EWR and all other big European and American cities Star allince needs.
 
AirbusA6
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:10 pm

With IAH interested in purchasing TAP, which would presumably join OW as well, OW would hold incredible power over Latin American routes
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744lover
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:18 pm

I wonder what will *A do about it.


How would their airlines (TK, LH, TP, UA, etc...) get passengers from other parts of South America? JJ is the last *A in Brazil and dare I say South America..



Just my two cents...


BR,
744lover
 
mogandoCI
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:40 pm

Quoting 744lover (Reply 7):
How would their airlines (TK, LH, TP, UA, etc...) get passengers from other parts of South America? JJ is the last *A in Brazil and dare I say South America..

Then what is Avianca-Taca? Chopped liver ?
 
A388
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:54 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 8):
Then what is Avianca-Taca? Chopped liver ?

Precisely. People seem to overlook or maybe underestimate AV/TA/CM. They form the second largest presence in South America after LAN/TAM. They are much weaker in deep South America but on the other hand they have a pretty decent presence in the other parts of South America, dominating Colombia, competing pretty well in Peru and Ecuador and dominating Central America as well. Brazil will need much more attention from AV, there they are the weakest indeed. Is AV Brasil allowed to expand massively to better compete within the Brazilian market?

A388
 
kiwiandrew

RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:16 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):
The only answer for Star and AV is to grow Avianca Brasil into the second international airline in Brazil.

At the risk of going OT, where would they get the slots from at heavily constrained Brazilian airports?

Back to the topic... any idea why it would be AA rather than LA who invites TAM into OneWorld? LA would seem the obvious sponsor.
 
realsim
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:21 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 10):
Back to the topic... any idea why it would be AA rather than LA who invites TAM into OneWorld? LA would seem the obvious sponsor.

If LAN was the sponsor, it would mean that LAN+TAM would choose at Oneworld, and thus, they would not get any possible concession or benefit from their partners. It has to be someone else from OW who invites TAM, which is the same than inviting LATAM as a whole, and like that they can negociate, even if I think that LATAM has already "decided" their alliance.

[Edited 2012-02-08 11:23:30]
 
A388
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:48 pm

Quoting realsim (Reply 11):
even if I think that LATAM has already "decided" their alliance.

What I remember from previous threads on this subjects, the only way the LAN/TAM merger would be approved by the authorities (I would assume in Brazil and/or Chile), was for the LAN/TAM group not being in the same alliance as the AV/TA/CM combination. Seeing that AV/TA will join Star and LAN being a OneWorld partner already, there really is no other alliance that TAM can join, other than the OneWorld Alliance. Like you said actually, so I assume this invitation really just is a formality as the choice has probably already been made (unofficially or not).

A388
 
tonytifao
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:50 pm

Can we ever see Azul expanding internationally in South American and possibly joining an alliance?
 
C010T3
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:54 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 9):
Is AV Brasil allowed to expand massively to better compete within the Brazilian market?

Yes, they can expand at will.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 10):
where would they get the slots from at heavily constrained Brazilian airports?

You mean GRU, CGH and BSB? Well, they would get the slots in other airports.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:56 pm

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 14):
You mean GRU, CGH and BSB? Well, they would get the slots in other airports.

Yes, but any expansion without GRU or CGH is pretty meaningless since Sao Paulo is the economic powerhouse of Brazil.
 
A388
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:01 pm

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 14):
You mean GRU, CGH and BSB? Well, they would get the slots in other airports.

I remember seeing artist impressions of expansion plans for GRU and also remember this is connected to the World Cup and the Olympic Games coming to Brazil. How far along is this expansion? In any way, I assume this expansion will help GRU a lot.

A388
 
kiwiandrew

RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:03 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 12):
What I remember from previous threads on this subjects, the only way the LAN/TAM merger would be approved by the authorities (I would assume in Brazil and/or Chile), was for the LAN/TAM group not being in the same alliance as the AV/TA/CM combination. Seeing that AV/TA will join Star and LAN being a OneWorld partner already, there really is no other alliance that TAM can join, other than the OneWorld Alliance.

While I never really saw that decision going any other way than OW ( even though as a diehard *A supporter I hoped for a miracle   ) AV/TA are not yet in *A. As AI and IT have already proved things can go off track before the official joining date.

In the extremely unlikely event that Senor Cueto phoned up LH and UA tomorrow and said "I would like LATAM to be in *A", I think you could pretty much guarantee that a way would be found to prevent TA/AV from joining. ( CM are not a problem as they were not mentioned in the decision since there is no overlap). Of course I think I have better odds of winning the lottery this weekend than of that phone call taking place, but hypothetically it could ( I certainly won't be holding my breath on it)
 
C010T3
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:11 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 15):
Yes, but any expansion without GRU or CGH is pretty meaningless since Sao Paulo is the economic powerhouse of Brazil.

Well, it's not meaningless considering that SAO is not for Brazil what BUE is for Argentina. AV already has a presence at CGH and GRU. At GRU, they can grow as long it is a spoke of their network, not a hub.

Quoting A388 (Reply 16):
How far along is this expansion?

The concession auction was on Monday. Part of the planned expansion is expected before the 2014 World Cup.

Quoting A388 (Reply 16):
In any way, I assume this expansion will help GRU a lot.

Yes, indeed, but not as much as we would wish, since some hours of the day are already maxed out even for the runways.
 
jfk777
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:22 pm

Quoting 744lover (Reply 7):
How would their airlines (TK, LH, TP, UA, etc...) get passengers from other parts of South America? JJ is the last *A in Brazil and dare I say South America..
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 8):
Then what is Avianca-Taca? Chopped liver ?

To Compare the biggest airline in Brazil to Avianca is like comparing a combined DL/UA in the USA and Air Canada. AV/Taca provide dominance in NW South America, a large region with a expanding economy but not the huge demand in the whole southern cone that GRU provides across the Atlantic. BOG to GRU is like comparing JFK to BWI. Copa needs to become part of AV/ Taca and use that Panama hub as its main airport.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 10):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):
The only answer for Star and AV is to grow Avianca Brasil into the second international airline in Brazil.

At the risk of going OT, where would they get the slots from at heavily constrained Brazilian airports?

Buy Gol or Azul. HUB not at GRU but Viracopas.
 
Avianca
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:35 pm

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 4):
AV/TA does not help them much at all to the deep south and even AR now has a dance partner...

are you sure? AV/TA is serving all SouthAmerican countries with a lot of frequenzies so dont see your point that they can not help, dont see were AR is stronger...
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
SA7700
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:39 pm

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 6):
With IAH interested in purchasing TAP

I presume you mean IAG and not IAH? What would be the chances of the EU allowing such a transaction going forward, virtually ceding a huge chunk of Europe - South American traffic to Oneworld alone? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks and rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
C010T3
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:44 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 19):
Buy Gol or Azul. HUB not at GRU but Viracopas.

Azul's hub is Viracopos. Gol has multiple hubs, but VCP is not one of them. In fact, Gol offers only 11 daily departures from VCP, while Azul offers 127.
 
PezySPU
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:46 pm

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 6):
With IAH interested in purchasing TAP

Now that JK is gone I doubt LH would let TP go easily...
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:38 pm

Quoting realsim (Reply 2):


This may be the first move of a big "war" between the three alliances.

I think the first move in the alliance "war" was Delta attempting to poach JAL from oneworld.
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
realsim
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:38 pm

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 21):
I presume you mean IAG and not IAH? What would be the chances of the EU allowing such a transaction going forward, virtually ceding a huge chunk of Europe - South American traffic to Oneworld alone? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

At least for now, the European Comission has looked at market concentration either from a domestic point of view of a given country (example: Olympic and Aegean attempted merger), or from a city-pair or city-market analysis. Europe as a whole hasn't been considered as a market yet, so the transaction would have to be allowed, except maybe some restrictions like divesting a slot or two for MAD/LIS-GRU flights, or MAD-LIS (although slots at MAD are not a problem). If they considered Europe as a whole market, then LH wouldn't have been allowed to buy so many airlines, for example. Anyway, we all know who rules the European Union, so the criteria could change if IAG tries to buy TP and Germany and France oppose to it.

And, in the future, if an OpenSkies agreement is reached between the EU and Brazil, as long as JJ doesn't fly to Portugal, an ATI/JV should be allowed between TP, JJ, IB and BA, although LHR/MAD-GRU would not be included in the ATI for a number of years.
 
SA7700
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:27 pm

Quoting realsim (Reply 25):
And, in the future, if an OpenSkies agreement is reached between the EU and Brazil, as long as JJ doesn't fly to Portugal, an ATI/JV should be allowed between TP, JJ, IB and BA, although LHR/MAD-GRU would not be included in the ATI for a number of years.

With all due respect, TP is not in Oneworld - why should it be part of a Oneworld ATI/JV?

Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
SKY1
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:59 am

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 17):
AV/TA are not yet in *A

But LAN is not going to leave oneworld. It's nearly sure that LA will remain in OW and TA/AV have already a foot inside *A ...there are similar cases to the AI but it's highly rare and unusual.

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 26):
TP is not in Oneworld - why should it be part of a Oneworld ATI/JV?

I can't speak by himself but I think he is assuming that TP will be purchased by IAG
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:30 am

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 4):
AV/TA does not help them much at all to the deep south and even AR now has a dance partner...


Are you sure with this statement?
AV/TA has two hubs in Bogota and Lima with non-stop flights to SCL, ASU, EZE, MVD, GRU, GIG, POA, BSB and so forth.
Furthermore, their subsidiaries are also contributing to feed the traffic in deep South America: Avianca Brasil [Brasil], Aerogal [Ecuador] and TA is now the second dominant player in Peru domestically and internationally.
Sky Airline also contributes in Chile to cater passengers on behalf of TA.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
Jonathanxxxx
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:36 am

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 28):
AV/TA has two hubs in Bogota and Lima with non-stop flights to SCL, ASU, EZE, MVD, GRU, GIG, POA, BSB and so forth.
Furthermore, their subsidiaries are also contributing to feed the traffic in deep South America: Avianca Brasil [Brasil], Aerogal [Ecuador] and TA is now the second dominant player in Peru domestically and internationally.
Sky Airline also contributes in Chile to cater passengers on behalf of TA.

Well, yes. Although truthfully they're shadowed completely by a combination of LAN & TAM. With all of LAN's subsidiaries they just overshadow AV-TA completely. They're no small carrier but pale to LATAM in comparison.
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:57 am

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 29):
they're shadowed completely by a combination of LAN & TAM. With all of LAN's subsidiaries they just overshadow AV-TA completely


Agreed. However, we have to take into account that LATAM and AV-TA will be on different global alliances.
The mentioned arrangement on AV-TA is the best that they can contribute now for the intended purposes of Star Alliance.
Furthermore, we have to consider that AV-TA has now firmly ordered more than 50 absolutely new planes for 2015 and this maneuver would increase its level of service in the future.
For what I've read on this board, OneWorld seems to be the way for LATAM.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
RAGAZZO777
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:50 am

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 27):
But LAN is not going to leave oneworld. It's nearly sure that LA will remain in OW and TA/AV have already a foot inside *A

   Exactly. Just look at LAN's latest move at JFK. Besides, everybody knows that LAN is 'buying' TAM, not the other way around.

When TAM exits Star Alliance, it will definitely be a blow to Star's interests in Brazil, but hardly to the rest of South America.
JESÚS, TE AMO !!
 
LipeGIG
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:31 am

Quoting 744lover (Reply 7):
I wonder what will *A do about it.

They can't do anything. This is fact. JJ and G3 controls around 80% of Brazilian market and are the ones that fly abroad.And both are on other alliances or strategic partnerships.

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 13):
Can we ever see Azul expanding internationally in South American and possibly joining an alliance?

Yes you can see, but they can't fill the gap. VCP is not an option.

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 31):
When TAM exits Star Alliance, it will definitely be a blow to Star's interests in Brazil, but hardly to the rest of South America

Correct. South America will be a missing point for Star. AV+TA can't fill the gap.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
kiramakora
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:40 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 9):
Precisely. People seem to overlook or maybe underestimate AV/TA/CM. They form the second largest presence in South America after LAN/TAM. They are much weaker in deep South America but on the other hand they have a pretty decent presence in the other parts of South America, dominating Colombia, competing pretty well in Peru and Ecuador and dominating Central America as well. Brazil will need much more attention from AV, there they are the weakest indeed. Is AV Brasil allowed to expand massively to better compete within the Brazilian market?

A388

Irrelevant. The market of Brazil is more important than all the other Latin countries and it is something we must set our national prejudice and accept. It is sort of like having Thailand and Singapore when India and China is missing.
 
AirbusA6
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:28 am

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 27):

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 26):
TP is not in Oneworld - why should it be part of a Oneworld ATI/JV?

I can't speak by himself but I think he is assuming that TP will be purchased by IAG

The reason I mentioned it, is that Willie Walsh has mentioned TAP several times as an airline he'd be interested in purchasing, The other airline he mentioned was BMI...

In my mind it would be an unacceptable monopoly of South Atlantic routes, but by allowing LH to expand across central Europe, the EU has created a precedent. In the interest of competition, perhaps IAG should be allowed to buy TAP, then made to swap it with Swiss  
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
AAIL86
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:33 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 28):
Are you sure with this statement?

Yes.

I wasn't trying to bash AV/TA at all, but when you add it up- the geographic location, market share, route networks, it becomes obvious quickly that they are not in a position to be more then a regional player.

For example- North America-South America traffic is dominated by overnight traffic, as we all know. To capture North-South traffic, AV/TA would have to A( fly during the day, which we all know has poor yields compared to the overnight traffic, or B( wake people up in the middle of the night for a connection.... no thank you, I'd rather sleep all night on AR   then wake up in the middle of the night. This is the same problem that CM currently faces- they capture some traffic, for sure- but unless people's habits change, that's going to be tough. I think AV/TA's prospects connecting people back and forth to Europe are a little better, although Bogota would be certainly be backtracking on most Europe-South American routes.

Quoting kiramakora (Reply 33):
Irrelevant. The market of Brazil is more important than all the other Latin countries and it is something we must set our national prejudice and accept. It is sort of like having Thailand and Singapore when India and China is missing.

Wow- I can't believe an Argentine has said this....  
Next
 
777jaah
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:45 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):
The only answer for Star and AV is to grow Avianca Brasil into the second international airline in Brazil. That means A330 and A350 from GRU to FRA, MIA, EWR and all other big European and American cities Star allince needs.

That's why they ordered 10 A350, to support growth. If they launch at least 3-4 US destinations (MIA, JFK, LAX), 4-5 european (MAD, LHR, CDG, FRA and FCO) and some in south america (SCL, EZE), they can keep those frames busy.

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 27):
TA/AV have already a foot inside *A ...

And I can't think of not happening, being AV really interested in joining the alliance and it seems they've done everything so far to join in April.

Quoting kiramakora (Reply 33):
Irrelevant. The market of Brazil is more important than all the other Latin countries and it is something we must set our national prejudice and accept. It is sort of like having Thailand and Singapore when India and China is missing.

100% right. AV better start focusing in Brazil and then making Avianca Brazil join *A. And *A better support it, otherwise, they'll loose the brazilian market.
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
jfk777
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:37 pm

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 36):
That's why they ordered 10 A350, to support growth. If they launch at least 3-4 US destinations (MIA, JFK, LAX), 4-5 european (MAD, LHR, CDG, FRA and FCO) and some in south america (SCL, EZE), they can keep those frames busy.

It will take 20 A350's to reach all those cities daily from GRU. Never mind any Rio flights. IF Avianca Brasil is going to be a TAM equal, it needs 100 airplanes.
 
777jaah
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:00 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 37):
It will take 20 A350's to reach all those cities daily from GRU. Never mind any Rio flights. IF Avianca Brasil is going to be a TAM equal, it needs 100 airplanes

My doubt is not about having the frames, Airbus will gladly sell them. My problem is more focused on filling them....
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
tu154
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:23 pm

AA is sooooo desperate right now. As is OneWorld. What a joke AA
FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
 
LipeGIG
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:33 am

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 36):
That's why they ordered 10 A350, to support growth. If they launch at least 3-4 US destinations (MIA, JFK, LAX), 4-5 european (MAD, LHR, CDG, FRA and FCO) and some in south america (SCL, EZE), they can keep those frames busy.

Are they able to manage on such airports.... good slots ?

There are no frequencies available for EZE for example.
MIA, FCO, CDG, MAD and LHR as Star member does not mean anything or guarantee of good results. JJ position is for sure, a competitive advantage over any competitor right now.

You will need not only the route, but equipment, the right feed operation on origin and good distribution.

Quoting tu154 (Reply 39):
AA is sooooo desperate right now. As is OneWorld. What a joke AA

Why desperate ? They are trying to secure an airline on their side that would lead to a very strong and comprehensive competitive advantage on South America-US market.
Desperate... a better word to talk about UA possibilities... desperate for a partnership to grow outside of O&D markets.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:26 am

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 35):
North America-South America traffic is dominated by overnight traffic, as we all know. To capture North-South traffic, AV/TA would have to A( fly during the day, which we all know has poor yields compared to the overnight traffic, or B( wake people up in the middle of the night for a connection.... no thank you, I'd rather sleep all night on AR


The coverage of TAM-LAN is by far better than the system offered by AV-TA, in terms for the intended interests of Star Alliance in South America. Nobody's disputing this fact.
I couldn't agree that AR is better than AV-TA speaking about the connectivity between North And South America.
How many destinations and weekly frequencies is AR currently offering between North and South America? I'm not mentioning the Caribbean and Central America where the presence of AR is zero.
TA-AV is also focusing into the business travelers supplying red-eye flights out from either Lima or Bogota and heading to deep South America: SCL, ASU, MVD, EZE, GRU, GIG, POA and BSB.




.

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 35):
This is the same problem that CM currently faces


CM has recently introduced more flights to deep South America from different departing banks: SCL, GIG, GRU, EZE and so forth.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
realsim
Posts: 514
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:19 pm

RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:07 pm

I think Star Alliance doesn't need that Avianca Brazil becomes as big as TAM or GOL. Of course, the best would be to be the dominant player in the country, but every alliance can't have everything. At least they have one domestic partner, which the other alliance don't in other big countries. If Avianca Brazil can manage to have the key feeding flights for the international flights of their partners, it will be enough to start from. Some flights to/from BSB, POA, CWB, CNF and such cities when the Star Alliance long haul flights arrive/depart from GRU and GIG, and their customers will be able to reach the most important places in the country.
 
AAIL86
Posts: 420
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:00 am

RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:19 pm

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 35):
wake people up in the middle of the night for a connection.... no thank you, I'd rather sleep all night on AR
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 41):
Alliance in South America. Nobody's disputing this fact.
I couldn't agree that AR is better than AV-TA speaking about the connectivity between North And South America.

I was attempting to be funny, hence the wink. Yes, AR's network is very poor in relation to what it could be. I always raise an eyebrow when I am in Buenos Aires and you drive by the AR hangers enroute to the city center and 25 aircraft are sitting idle (including several widebodies, out of a fleet of what, 50?). If an airline won an award for lowest utilization, it would probably be them....
Next
 
C010T3
Posts: 1613
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:52 pm

Quoting realsim (Reply 42):
I think Star Alliance doesn't need that Avianca Brazil becomes as big as TAM or GOL. Of course, the best would be to be the dominant player in the country, but every alliance can't have everything. At least they have one domestic partner, which the other alliance don't in other big countries. If Avianca Brazil can manage to have the key feeding flights for the international flights of their partners, it will be enough to start from. Some flights to/from BSB, POA, CWB, CNF and such cities when the Star Alliance long haul flights arrive/depart from GRU and GIG, and their customers will be able to reach the most important places in the country.

You're thinking as a foreigner wanting to visit the country, but you have to consider that the Star Alliance is fighting for the loyalty of Brazilian flyers, which would likely prefer flying the alliance to which their domestic carrier of choice belongs. Avianca Brasil frequent flyer base is small and not particularly high-yielding even though the airline offers one of the best, if not the best, on-board products in Brazil. The airline urgently needs to adopt a GDS solution along with Avianca Colombia, not to mention Life Miles. After that, they need to dramatically expand establishing a true hub operation somewhere.
 
GSTBA
Posts: 386
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:20 am

RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:32 pm

Quoting tu154 (Reply 39):
AA is sooooo desperate right now. As is OneWorld. What a joke AA

I love this comment. What and *A signing up Avianca - TACA and COPA so soon after LAN & TAM making there announcement did'n't look desperate.

AA formally invite TAM to join OW and because of this AA is sooo desperate. I would say that AA and the rest of the OW members are very much aware of how much of a important partner LA has been in the past and is to the future of OW unlike Star who haven't exactly gone out of there way to retain TAM or to lure LA from OW. I think *A already know what way this decision is gonna go.
 
jfk777
Posts: 5830
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:52 pm

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 45):
AA formally invite TAM to join OW and because of this AA is sooo desperate. I would say that AA and the rest of the OW members are very much aware of how much of a important partner LA has been in the past and is to the future of OW unlike Star who haven't exactly gone out of there way to retain TAM or to lure LA from OW. I think *A already know what way this decision is gonna

Which why they basically gave Avianca/TACA anything they wanted to join Star. Star basically conceded the southern cone of Latin America to OW and got strength where they could which was northern Latin America.
 
aircanada014
Posts: 1224
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:24 pm

RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:46 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 12):
What I remember from previous threads on this subjects, the only way the LAN/TAM merger would be approved by the authorities (I would assume in Brazil and/or Chile), was for the LAN/TAM group not being in the same alliance as the AV/TA/CM combination. Seeing that AV/TA will join Star and LAN being a OneWorld partner already, there really is no other alliance that TAM can join, other than the OneWorld Alliance. Like you said actually, so I assume this invitation really just is a formality as the choice has probably already been made (unofficially or not).

LATAM can't not be in two seperate alliances it has nothing to do with AV/TA/CM being in the alliance. meaning TAM can't stay in Star Alliance while LAN can't stay in Oneworld so they either have to join Star Alliance or Oneworld. Chilean authorities didn't say LATAM can't join Star Alliance because of AV/TA/CM joining Star Alliance as I recall?..
 
kiwiandrew

RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:52 am

Quoting aircanada014 (Reply 47):
Chilean authorities didn't say LATAM can't join Star Alliance because of AV/TA/CM joining Star Alliance as I recall?..

As a condition of approving the takeover the Chilean authorities said that LATAM could not be part of the same alliance as AV/TA. ( perfectly understandable when you look at their overlap). They didn't mention CM ( again, perfectly understandable - there is very little overlap).
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 2396
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: AA Invites TAM To OneWorld

Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:59 am

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 48):
As a condition of approving the takeover the Chilean authorities said that LATAM could not be part of the same alliance as AV/TA. ( perfectly understandable when you look at their overlap).


I think that their common center of operations in both Lima and Bogota is a fact against that possibility on [AV-TA] and LATAM.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"

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