okay
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Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:46 pm

Hello,

Finnair has announced a loss of roughly 30m euros for last year. The airline wants to outsource all or parts of it European operations, which according to the airline are bleeding badly. They are seeking a partner to take over this part of their operations so that Finnair could concentrate on long haul flights only.

Also, the Finnish government has announced they are ready to sell Finnair, as long as good connections to other countries can be guaranteed from Finland.

http://yle.fi/uutiset/news/2012/02/f..._for_european_flights_3245686.html

http://yle.fi/uutiset/talous_ja_poli...in_enemmistoosuudesta_3246803.html (in Finnish only, sorry!)

My question is, who could be the partner to take over the European flights? Also, if Finnair is to be sold, who would be interested in buying it?

okAY
 
TruemanQLD
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:52 pm

Quoting okAY (Thread starter):
My question is, who could be the partner to take over the European flights? Also, if Finnair is to be sold, who would be interested in buying it?

IAG? Is a OneWorld airline already so would seem like a good fit to me, but don't know all that much about Finnair operations and management etc.
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:58 pm

It would be a big boost for IAG's presence in Asia. However, bmi, Finnair and possibly TAP would be a lot to take on at once.
 
aaexecplat
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:03 pm

It is amazing to watch this industry consolidate the way it is. In Europe we are now hurtling towards just three major airline groups...LH, IAG, and AF/KL. I suspect those who are still not in one of these groups will be in them within the next 5 years.
 
mt99
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:08 pm

Based on the Thread Title - i was expecting a special livery.. 
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JoeCanuck
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:15 pm

Quoting AAExecplat (Reply 3):


While not on the same scale as the big three, might there not be room for consolidation of the Nordic airlines?
What the...?
 
cmf
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:15 pm

Quoting okAY (Thread starter):
They are seeking a partner to take over this part of their operations so that Finnair could concentrate on long haul flights only.

Isn't a lot of their long haul passengers connecting passengers from/to the European network? Will they be able to keep passenger loads if they do not have operational control throughout?
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PezySPU
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:27 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 6):
Isn't a lot of their long haul passengers connecting passengers from/to the European network? Will they be able to keep passenger loads if they do not have operational control throughout?

I don't think it's much of a problem. They are seeking a *partner*, means that cooperation between the two would exist. For the reasons you mentioned, that would benefit both. Actually, it would be disastrous for AY if it got rid of its European feed. I doubt O&D alone between Finland and Asia is high enough to keep those flights viable.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:39 pm

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 2):
It would be a big boost for IAG's presence in Asia

How? BA flies to most of those places more often than AY does.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 5):
might there not be room for consolidation of the Nordic airlines?

Do state owned Nordic carriers lose loads of money? Do bears cr@p in the woods? 
Quoting AAExecplat (Reply 3):
It is amazing to watch this industry consolidate the way it is.

Welcome to a decade ago in the US.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:48 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8):
How? BA flies to most of those places more often than AY does.

BA doesn't fly to Seoul or Chongqing and Asia (beyond India, Singapore and Hong Kong) is a difficult market for BA, partly because its position in Western Europe limits scope to attract connecting traffic. AY is in the right place to grow its network and the marketing/distribution strength of IAG would reinforce this further.
 
affirmative
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:28 pm

I don't remember if it's Norwegian that has a stake in Finnair or the other way around. I wouldn't be too surprised if Norwegian increased it's operations in Finland basically forcing Finnairs short/medium haul network to collapse and at the same time putting further pressure on SAS..
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HELFAN
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:05 pm

Quoting affirmative (Reply 10):
I don't remember if it's Norwegian that has a stake in Finnair or the other way around. I wouldn't be too surprised if Norwegian increased it's operations in Finland basically forcing Finnairs short/medium haul network to collapse and at the same time putting further pressure on SAS..

I was automatically thinking of Norwegian too since Finnair owns 10% stake of it. One would be tempted to think whether there is a connection btw Norwegian's recent giant order of new a/c's and this.
 
jfk777
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:08 pm

Buying Finnair would give IAG a great hub to Asia in Europe's NE and to compete with the Gulf Airlines with quicker polar routing to the Far East. One issue is can new owner stop making the Russians rich because Finnair pays a rumored 3 or 4 hundred millon Euros in overflight fees. Finnair would also keep a good airline in OW.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:11 pm

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 2):
possibly TAP

IAG is looking at TAP?    They are in Star and IAG is well represented on the Iberian peninsula with IB. Maybe for Brazil routes, which maybe covered by LATAM?

Back on topic, IAG, or AF/KLM, seem to me the best fit for Finnair in a huge airline group. LH group is in scandinavia with SAS and have their long haul routes doing pretty well. With state-owned airlines seeming to be on the decline, is this the beginning of the end for Finnair?
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HELFAN
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:13 pm

Finnish mtv3 channel just speculated that Air Berlin would be the new strategic partner for Finnair. Makes sense, since AB lacks Asian connections, Furthermore they already codeshare flights from Finland to Germany
 
jfk777
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:17 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 13):
IAG is looking at TAP? They are in Star and IAG is well represented on the Iberian peninsula with IB. Maybe for Brazil routes, which maybe covered by LATAM?

TAM does NOT fly to Portugal , they code-share with TAP on those flights. Whatever takes over TAP will own the Brazil to Lisbon market.
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:19 pm

Quoting affirmative (Reply 10):
I don't remember if it's Norwegian that has a stake in Finnair or the other way around. I wouldn't be too surprised if Norwegian increased it's operations in Finland basically forcing Finnairs short/medium haul network to collapse and at the same time putting further pressure on SAS..
Quoting helfan (Reply 11):
I was automatically thinking of Norwegian too since Finnair owns 10% stake of it. One would be tempted to think whether there is a connection btw Norwegian's recent giant order of new a/c's and this.

Finnair had only 4.8 % stake in Norwegian DY. I don' t know if they still have it ...
 
blr380
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:25 pm

Hmm....makes me wonder where is OneWorld heading to. AA is trying to restructure, IT situation - less said the better, and now Finnair trying to find a buyer. I guess it will be mostly IAG + AA in the years to come looking at how things are shaping up in this alliance.
 
okay
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:30 pm

So far AY has not announced who could be the partner to do the European flights for them. They have, however, ruled out three candidates: SK, FlyBe and DY. Concerning SK the CEO of AY said, you do not make a tiger by putting together two elephants... haa haa  

It can also be a totally new venture, where AY creates a new company with someone, like they did with FlyBe.

The fact that the government announces all of a sudden plans to sell Finnair, something that I do not recall ever being mentioned from the government's side, quite the opposite, tells that someone is interested and AY has gone knocking on the door of the minister saying "set us free before you have no airline"... Just my two cents...

okAY
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:31 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 13):
IAG is looking at TAP? They are in Star and IAG is well represented on the Iberian peninsula with IB. Maybe for Brazil routes, which maybe covered by LATAM?

Back on topic, IAG, or AF/KLM, seem to me the best fit for Finnair in a huge airline group

Yes, Willie Walsh is on the record that IAG will look at TAP when/if the privatisation process starts. I think AF-KLM is too indebted to buy anybody at the moment and needs to get its house inorder.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:53 pm

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 9):
BA doesn't fly to Seoul or Chongqing and Asia (beyond India, Singapore and Hong Kong) is a difficult market for BA,

Between BA/CX/JL I really don't see what value AY provides, and that may be the bigger problem here.

Quoting helfan (Reply 14):
Finnish mtv3 channel just speculated that Air Berlin would be the new strategic partner for Finnair.

Drunks holding each other up?

Quoting helfan (Reply 14):
Makes sense, since AB lacks Asian connections, Furthermore they already codeshare flights from Finland to Germany

AB has code all over BA's flights to LHR, as well as recently JL, plus plenty of leisure flights to Asia
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vv701
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:01 pm

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 19):
Yes, Willie Walsh is on the record that IAG will look at TAP

Walsh has twice publicly expressed an interest in TP. This was the first time:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...ish-airways-iberia-times-says.html

When IAG was formed and Walsh was appointed its CEO, he said that his main objective would be to build the group and that he had a list of 10 airlines he was looking at. The only two he has mentioned publicly are BD and TP. Was AY on that list?

As an aside BA leased AY DC-9s to operate LHR-HEL-LHR (BA772/73) in November and December 1977. The aircraft were flown by AY flight crew but the cabin crew were BA staff. These flights were part of an evaluation process to find a replacement for BA's HS Tridents.
 
PezySPU
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:21 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):
Quoting helfan (Reply 14):
Makes sense, since AB lacks Asian connections, Furthermore they already codeshare flights from Finland to Germany

AB has code all over BA's flights to LHR, as well as recently JL, plus plenty of leisure flights to Asia

And now that EY holds a stake in them, do they really need to invest in AY? I don't think so...
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:24 pm

Quoting PezySPU (Reply 22):
And now that EY holds a stake in them, do they really need to invest in AY? I don't think so...

You're right; there's that too. Ugh. Mess.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
okay
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:44 pm

Quoting PezySPU (Reply 22):

According to the CEO of AY in an interview he gave to Suomen Kuvalehti, the airline has gotten a lot of contacts from different instances, expressing their interest towards a joint venture with AY. The interest has been so great the airline is a little surprised by it and is now thinking of setting up a bidding situation to have the best option.

The article also says that decisions need to be made soon, in the following weeks.

http://suomenkuvalehti.fi/jutut/talo...nnairille-jaisi-vain-kaukoliikenne

okAY
 
mogandoCI
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:46 pm

Finnair in red and Blue1 folding back into SAS.... what the HEL

[Edited 2012-02-09 10:47:24]
 
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HELyes
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:53 pm

AY press release:
http://www.finnairgroup.com/en/index.html#

Today their GEO said they are expecting to find the new short haul partner in a few months. The announced possible privatizing is an other story, it still takes some political wrestling before the 56% share is out there for sale. But it will happen it seems now.

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 9):
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8):
How? BA flies to most of those places more often than AY does.
Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 9):
BA doesn't fly to Seoul or Chongqing and Asia (beyond India, Singapore and Hong Kong) is a difficult market for BA, partly because its position in Western Europe limits scope to attract connecting traffic. AY is in the right place to grow its network and the marketing/distribution strength of IAG would reinforce this further.

BA dont fly to Seoul, Chongqing, Osaka, Nagoya. IAG sounds a perfect new owner, in paper at least, especially if Air Berlin also joins. AB has close relations to AY already, beside the code shares their frequent-flyer programmes are linked. But yes, Etihad is there already...

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 12):
One issue is can new owner stop making the Russians rich because Finnair pays a rumored 3 or 4 hundred million Euros in overflight fees.

The overflight fees will be gone by 2014, since Russia has joined WTO. EU together has paid 300 million Euros per year to Russia, says EU.
 
PezySPU
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:03 pm

Quoting AY" class="quote" target="_blank">okAY (Reply 24):

According to the CEO of AY in an interview he gave to Suomen Kuvalehti, the airline has gotten a lot of contacts from different instances, expressing their interest towards a joint venture with AY. The interest has been so great the airline is a little surprised by it and is now thinking of setting up a bidding situation to have the best option.

The article also says that decisions need to be made soon, in the following weeks.

http://suomenkuvalehti.fi/jutut/talo...nnairille-jaisi-vain-kaukoliikenne

okAY

That's great for AY, but I doubt AB can afford it. Plus, I don't think EY would be happy about it... I'd say IAG is a lot more likely.
 
airbazar
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:05 pm

Quoting AAExecplat (Reply 3):
It is amazing to watch this industry consolidate the way it is. In Europe we are now hurtling towards just three major airline groups...LH, IAG, and AF/KL. I suspect those who are still not in one of these groups will be in them within the next 5 years.

Maybe but I don't see TK in any of those groups.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 15):
TAM does NOT fly to Portugal , they code-share with TAP on those flights. Whatever takes over TAP will own the Brazil to Lisbon market.

Why stop at LIS? Whoever buys TAP will own S.America-Europe market.
The only reason IAG hasn't bought TP yet is because too many strong interests in Portugal don't want TP and IB in the same group.
 
jfk777
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:15 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 28):
Why stop at LIS? Whoever buys TAP will own S.America-Europe market.The only reason IAG hasn't bought TP yet is because too many strong interests in Portugal don't want TP and IB in the same group.

Iberia owns the Europe to Latin Market. TAP owns the Brazil to Portugal market, TAP has a unique franchise.
 
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HELyes
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:20 pm

Quoting PezySPU (Reply 27):
That's great for AY, but I doubt AB can afford it. Plus, I don't think EY would be happy about it... I'd say IAG is a lot more likely.

AB had been mentioned as a possible new partner for AY in the European traffic. The possible privatizing is a separate question at this point.
 
PezySPU
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:26 pm

Quoting HELyes (Reply 30):
Quoting PezySPU (Reply 27):
That's great for AY, but I doubt AB can afford it. Plus, I don't think EY would be happy about it... I'd say IAG is a lot more likely.

AB had been mentioned as a possible new partner for AY in the European traffic. The possible privatizing is a separate question at this point.

Ahh, now it's more clear. I thought you were talking only about privatization all the time.
 
spud757
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:47 pm

BE to expand the JV with AY. BE to operate the European network ex-HEL into regional airports across the UK and continental Europe providing the feed to/from HEL hub long haul on AY to Asia.
IAG already own a stake in BE and AY is in OW so it could all come together nicely if IAG were to work something out with BE & AY.
BA and CX will continue to carry all the OW O&D traffic from big hubs like LHR, CDG and then between BE/AY they carry the pax to/from regional airports via HEL. Win win for OW.
 
einsteinboricua
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:18 pm

Is there a possiblity for SAS to incorporate Finnair into their system, thereby establishing a Nordic Air System?
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boeing773er
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:57 pm

I don't see how AB could possibly afford to take on Finnair because AB is bleeding through cash themselves.

I don't see IAG buying Finnair at this time because they will be rather busy for the next 12-18 months with BD.

AF/KLM; would be nice but I don't see this happening since AF is bleeding money.

LH Group; I think they could handle taking Finnair on. I'm just not sure if they will want to since some of their last acquisitions haven't been too successful.

EY; unlikely and I think that they wouldn't really gain too much from buying them.

One thing I would love to see would be a TAP/Finnair merger. I think that the airline/group would be extremely powerful with good coverage in South America, and Asia. But I don't think this would happen because they are both bleeding money so there would be a high chance of a failing group.
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SuperCaravelle
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:52 pm

Considering SkyTeam has quite a strong presence in Asia already with the different Chinese and Taiwanese airlines and of course KE, I cannot see AF/KL being too interested in AY. They have their own problems too, as is mentioned.

I cannot see TP going to IAG too to be honest, especially with Spanair folding and Stars problems in South America (TAM going to OneWorld most likely) they have a very strategic and valuable position for Star. I think LH will counter any bid by other airlines. In my opinion, within the last months, TP went from being a nice, but bit redundant airline to one of the key airlines for Star. Also, I cannot imagine TP and IB being in the same airlines group, it would probably mean a scaling down of at least one of the two, and I don't think the governments will be too happy about it (not even considering other problems).

Finnair is ideally suited for OneWorld. Star doesn't really need it at the moment in my opinion and as is being mentioned, LH is busy fixing other things. AY is vital for OneWorld, Madrid is no good for European - Asian connections and LHR is slot constricted and thus not viable for many (secondary) Asian connections. AY has experience in the market and is ideally located. Once they get their house in order, they can be very valuable.

A takeover/merger would also mean the disappearance of one of the last independent network carriers in Europe, with only TP left (I consider AZ to be part of AF/KL, not in name (yet), but certainly for many operations in practice). Consolidation in fast forward indeed...
 
jfk777
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:16 pm

Quoting SuperCaravelle (Reply 35):
I cannot imagine TP and IB being in the same airlines group, it would probably mean a scaling down of at least one of the two, and I don't think the governments will be too happy about it (not even considering other problems).

TP & IB really overlap very little except for Caracas, Rio and Sao Paulo. TP's franchise is from 8 Brazilain cities to Portugal. They don't fly to EZE, BOG, LIM, SCL or Mexico to Lisbon. IB's recent efforts from Fortaleza fizzled.

Quoting SuperCaravelle (Reply 35):

Finnair is ideally suited for OneWorld. Star doesn't really need it at the moment in my opinion and as is being mentioned, LH is busy fixing other things. AY is vital for OneWorld, Madrid is no good for European - Asian connections and LHR is slot constricted and thus not viable for many (secondary) Asian connections. AY has experience in the market and is ideally located. Once they get their house in order, they can be very valuable.

Helsinki is a great hub for Asia, IAG should appreciate it, Its doesn't need much to integrate it into IAG sice its already works well. BA has its mind on BMI but sometime opportuntity knocks where you don't expect it.
 
SuperCaravelle
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:23 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 36):
TP & IB really overlap very little except for Caracas, Rio and Sao Paulo. TP's franchise is from 8 Brazilain cities to Portugal. They don't fly to EZE, BOG, LIM, SCL or Mexico to Lisbon. IB's recent efforts from Fortaleza fizzled.

The individual carriers don't overlap much, I agree. But for alliance strategy, I don't think TP is really the first thing OneWorld wants. They have a good hub (with room to expand) in Madrid, with an airline flying to South America. If they really want to expand there, I don't think IB would have a massive problem doing so. At the moment, the secondary market of Brazil isn't worth the effort I think.

Also, when TAM is going to OneWorld, they will probably get secondary Brazil markets to Europe (Madrid for connections, possibly Lisbon for O&D). Don't think TP will add enough to this to warrant a takeover, especially considering OneWorld really doesn't have a problem in South America, compared to some other continents.
 
sailas
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:31 pm

how about looking at this from an asian perspective...Why wouldnt CX be interested? Just a thought but imagine if Qantas bought Finnair. Could be viable.
IF another airline aquired AY what would happen to AY's equipment? The a343 is not exactly environmentally friendly. I know its a good cargo carrier, but it says alot if others are getting rid of them.
I hope all the best for AY...Hope this will go well.
Airlines been on: AY, LX, SR, OS, SK, KF, EZY, FR, BA, LH, AF, TG, DC, FC, TK, KL, BT, CX, QR
 
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HELyes
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:52 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 33):
Is there a possiblity for SAS to incorporate Finnair into their system, thereby establishing a Nordic Air System?

Hardly... SK have their own long lasting financial and structural problems, not a long ago LH was expected to buy it. In theory we could see some synergy there: SK, twice the size of AY, have changed their focus more on Northern-Europe, while AY has a larger long haul fleet for their Europe-Asia services and a good hub built for that purpouse. But as said above, you don't make a tiger by putting together two elephants, SK+AY sounds a mission impossible in real life.

Quoting sailas (Reply 38):
The a343 is not exactly environmentally friendly. I know its a good cargo carrier, but it says alot if others are getting rid of them.

Their seven 343's are hardly any real problem, there were ment to be a temporary solution in the first place. The price and cargo capacity are not the only advantages, A333 cant make HEL-SIN non stop.
 
ei2ksea
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:28 am

Quoting SuperCaravelle (Reply 35):
with only TP left

EI is still hanging around in the shadows also, it doesn't have the unique selling points of TP (the Brazil network) or AY (solid Asia network) but its still in bed with BA, UA and KL and not solely allied to one larger grouping yet.

The above explained scenario of Flybe taking on the smaller intra-EU routes with AY absorbed into IAG definitely sounds like an interesting plan. There would be synergies with IB on the long haul fleet (both airlines A330's are GE powered) and with BA and IB on the short haul front (all are CFM powered).

The other mentioned concept of SK and AY merging just sounds like a horrible financial mess!
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avroarrow
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:44 am

Sadly enough 30M euros loss isn't all that bad these days. I would have thought that the flyBE Nordic programme would have taken care of the short haul product for AY. As for the rest, things have become too "interesting" lately for a layman to guess how it will turn out. Hopefully everyone gets to keep their jobs and pensions, but if the slipping standards for the rest of the working world are anything to go by, I fear the worst.
Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
 
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HELyes
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:13 am

Quoting AvroArrow (Reply 41):
I would have thought that the flyBE Nordic programme would have taken care of the short haul product for AY.

FlyBe Nordic serves the regional routes inside the Nordic region with turboprops mainly, doing a good job there but AY also needs a partner with heavier tools.

Quoting AvroArrow (Reply 41):
Hopefully everyone gets to keep their jobs and pensions, but if the slipping standards for the rest of the working world are anything to go by, I fear the worst.

Hopefully the job cuts are still far away, no signs yet. And the earned pensions are always safe in Finland, no danger there.
 
bevisisback
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:35 am

Quoting blr380 (Reply 17):
makes me wonder where is OneWorld heading to

The phrase 'collasping like a flan in a cupboard' comes to mind....

AA, AY, MA, MX.....who next?
 
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HELyes
Posts: 1238
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:26 am

RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:57 am

Quoting bevisisback (Reply 43):
AA, AY, MA, MX.....who next?

Sorry I have to kill the drama   AY is not in bankruptcy.
They are looking for an new partner and Finnish government is considering giving up its majority stake, which was expected in some point.
 
bevisisback
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:31 pm

RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:23 am

Quoting HELyes (Reply 44):
Sorry I have to kill the drama AY is not in bankruptcy.

No, your right, they are not bankrupt....they must be struggling though.
 
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teme82
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:53 am

It will be most interesting share holders meeting in this spring  
Flying high and low
 
vv701
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:23 pm

Quoting bevisisback (Reply 43):
The phrase 'collasping like a flan in a cupboard' comes to mind....

Regretably a not uncommon malaise these days.

For example check out the logos on this photo of a soon-to-be BA (oneworld) 320 that was taken just the year before last. Five of them are gone already or are on their way out:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Timo Jäger

 
jfk777
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RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:29 pm

Quoting SuperCaravelle (Reply 37):
Also, when TAM is going to OneWorld, they will probably get secondary Brazil markets to Europe (Madrid for connections, possibly Lisbon for O&D). Don't think TP will add enough to this to warrant a takeover, especially considering OneWorld really doesn't have a problem in South America, compared to some other continents

With AA, LAN, TAM and IB OW doesn't have a problem in Latin America and does well from Brazil to the USA. IT does well from well from from Rio and Sao Paulo to Europe, but not from regional Brazil to Europe. TAP flies from Recife, Fortaleza, Brasilia, Manaus, Viracopas as well as GIG and GRU, TAP brings all of Brazil not just RIO and Sao Paulo about 50 % more then any other airline.
 
airbazar
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Finnair In Red, Plans For Privatization

Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:02 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 36):
TP & IB really overlap very little except for Caracas, Rio and Sao Paulo. TP's franchise is from 8 Brazilain cities to Portugal. They don't fly to EZE, BOG, LIM, SCL or Mexico to Lisbon. IB's recent efforts from Fortaleza fizzled.

There is some overlap. Lets not ignore code-sharing and interline. TP has been slowly penetrating those markets, as they did for MIA. They code-share with TAM to EZE and SCL, and they offer very competitive fares. Personally I think that EZE is only a matter of when not if. Those darn A350's can arrive fast enough so they can free up an A332 for EZE.