gen2stew
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NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:17 pm

With the recent press release from AS that it will drop MIA and move up to FLL, what will this do for code share PAX and onward connections to S. America/ Caribbean? And no TRI-RAIL to MIA is not an option.
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washingtonian
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:31 pm

Does AA really not fly SEA-MIA?!
 
rwsea
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:31 pm

Quoting GEN2STEW (Thread starter):
what will this do for code share PAX and onward connections to S. America/ Caribbean?

It will largely be the same as it exists now - most passengers will have to connect through IAH, ATL, DFW, or JFK. If a destination is only offered through MIA, then pax will either have to overnight or double-connect through another hub.

It's not easy getting to the Caribbean/South America from SEA, and this makes it a bit harder, but in general there are still enough options for the market. AA just misses out on the traffic.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:18 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 2):
Does AA really not fly SEA-MIA?!

No, they dropped it in late 2001. It was a change of equipment continuation of the NRT-SEA flight, which was discontinued at the same time. AS picked up the route several years later. Rumor is AA may start it back up now, but only a rumor for now.

Like I said, there's another large thread on this.
 
EddieDude
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:36 pm

Quoting rwsea (Reply 3):
It will largely be the same as it exists now - most passengers will have to connect through IAH, ATL, DFW, or JFK. If a destination is only offered through MIA, then pax will either have to overnight or double-connect through another hub.

It's not easy getting to the Caribbean/South America from SEA, and this makes it a bit harder, but in general there are still enough options for the market. AA just misses out on the traffic.

Maybe it is time for AM to give SEA-MEX another stab? MEX is a good connecting point for U.S. West Coast - South America traffic.
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BoeingGuy
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:03 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 5):
Maybe it is time for AM to give SEA-MEX another stab?

I like the idea of AS giving it a stab instead. I think that would work better, along with AS starting SJC-MEX.
 
roseflyer
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:22 pm

AA requires a connection. SEA-DFW-MIA or SEA-ORD-MIA to get to their South America network. This gives UA and DL an advantage since both offer plenty of nonstop options to ATL and IAH respectively for connections.

The AS nonstop SEA-MIA was never very useful for connections. A red eye had limited flights it connected to since most of AA's departures from MIA are in the evening, so it was easier to go SEA-DFW-MIA then SEA-MIA and have a 10 hour layover. The morning MIA-SEA also left before connections for all but the flights from deep South America with early arrivals.

AA has really shrunk to SEA. They are down to about a dozen daily flights. A nonstop SEA-MIA would be great if it had a morning SEA-MIA departure. AA has just decided that it isn't a big enough market to get nonstop service, so for people looking to avoid connections, they go to DL and UA. It's AA's loss. MIA-SEA was AS's second longest route after ORD-ANC.
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STT757
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:32 pm

I think COPA should start PTY-SEA. PTY is the perfect connecting point from Seattle to South America, it's shorter than connecting through MIA:
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ADent
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:37 pm

 
MAH4546
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:01 pm

AA will pick-up MIASEA quickly. Took only about 5 months for it to pick up MIAPHX after US left the market.
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BoeingGuy
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:18 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 9):
AA will pick-up MIASEA quickly.

Will that connect with the forthcoming JL/AA SEA-NRT flight?  
 
jpyvr
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:21 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
I think COPA should start PTY-SEA. PTY is the perfect connecting point from Seattle to South America, it's shorter than connecting through MIA:

I'm not sure that SEA-PTY is even possible for CM. Their longest flight currently is PTY-MVD, at 3385m according to Great Circle Mapper. From what I've read here on Airliners.net that distance is very close to the maximum, so since PTY-SEA at 3643m, is more than 250m longer it might not be doable, especially NW bound into SEA.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:40 pm

Quoting GEN2STEW (Thread starter):

With the recent press release from AS that it will drop MIA and move up to FLL, what will this do for code share PAX and onward connections to S. America/ Caribbean?

Well UA at IAH can pretty much get you to the most popular place with some easter caribbean stuff.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
I think COPA should start PTY-SEA

Now that is a downright LOOOOOONG route on a 73G
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BoeingGuy
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:46 pm

Quoting GEN2STEW (Thread starter):
With the recent press release from AS that it will drop MIA and move up to FLL, what will this do for code share PAX and onward connections to S. America/ Caribbean?

Good question. AS could code share with AA through DFW to some South American and a few Caribbean destinations. However, it's interesting that AS and AA don't code share on each others flights to DFW, as they do to ORD (and AS and DL do to MSP and ATL). Supposedly, AA was mad when AS started DFW but I would have thought they'd work it out by now. I've done AA connections at DFW in which I would have preferred AS metal on SEA-DFW but no can do.
 
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RWA380
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:51 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 6):
AA requires a connection. SEA-DFW-MIA or SEA-ORD-MIA to get to their South America network. This gives UA and DL an advantage since both offer plenty of nonstop options to ATL and IAH respectively for connections.

The AS nonstop SEA-MIA was never very useful for connections. A red eye had limited flights it connected to since most of AA's departures from MIA are in the evening, so it was easier to go SEA-DFW-MIA then SEA-MIA and have a 10 hour layover. The morning MIA-SEA also left before connections for all but the flights from deep South America with early arrivals

I agree with this 100%, The MIA-SEA-MIA flights have in the past, been timed more for connections in SEA than in MIA. AA has lost interest in the Pacific Northwest, they only supply the two largest population centers with meager amounts of service, AA can't expect much from this area, if they don't provide the flights. Both EUG & BOI were rather short lived experiments by AA.

Loyal AS flyers up here, and there are a lot of them, will fly DL to get their points where ever AS can't take them, yet. I would be very surprised if MIA-SEA-MIA is brought back by AA, I do agree if the route was ever resurrected, it would have to be re-timed to match up with AA's largest bank of South America flights in MIA, rather than a single connection from a JL flight connecting over SEA. There are plenty of other cities one could connect easily to get to MIA from NRT using the JL/AA JV. LAX, SFO, ORD come to mind.
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MAH4546
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:56 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 14):
I would be very surprised if MIA-SEA-MIA is brought back by AA, I do agree if the route was ever resurrected, it would have to be re-timed to match up with AA's largest bank of South America flights in MIA, r

It's coming back, and the schedule will almost certainly mirror AA's MIAPHX schedule. The only question about its return is whether AA will wait for winter, or squeeze it into the June 14th major schedule change that should be public in 3-4 weeks.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 10):

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 9):
AA will pick-up MIASEA quickly.

Will that connect with the forthcoming JL/AA SEA-NRT flight?  


JL/AA's next ATI route is probably going to be MIANRT, so no need even if AA/JL decides to enter the NRTSEA market (which I believe it will).

[Edited 2012-02-09 13:59:34]
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BoeingGuy
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:05 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 15):
JL/AA's next ATI route is probably going to be MIANRT

Is there really a market for MIA-NRT non-stop? I was hoping AA would be the entrant in SJC-NRT again so that flight could earn AS miles.
 
MAH4546
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:09 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 16):
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 15):
JL/AA's next ATI route is probably going to be MIANRT

Is there really a market for MIA-NRT non-stop? I was hoping AA would be the entrant in SJC-NRT again so that flight could earn AS miles.

Yes, there is absolutely a market. Florida-Japan is around 165 PDEW.
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American 767
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:13 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 9):
AA will pick-up MIASEA quickly.

That would probably be 5x weekly, or 1x daily at the most. What aircraft would it be? A 757 or a 738?

The profitability of the MIA-SEA flight in both directions doesn't just depend on the connections in MIA to flights going to South America. On the other side, it depends also on the connections in SEA to Alaska (Anchorage, Juneau,... or wherever AS flies in the Northwest) which depends whether AA keeps code sharing with AS or not. If AA and AS stop code sharing then the load factors will be low.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 14):
I agree with this 100%, The MIA-SEA-MIA flights have in the past, been timed more for connections in SEA than in MIA.

I agree that a red eye flight eastbound wouldn't work well for connections in MIA, but a day flight leaving SEA at 12N arriving MIA at 8P or so would work better for evening connections to South America. Likewise a westbound flight leaving MIA at 8A arriving SEA at 11A could work for connections to Alaska or wherever AS flies, and it would work out also for passengers arriving in MIA from South America very early in the morning.

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MAH4546
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:17 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 18):
If AA and AS stop code sharing then the load factors will be low.

AA and AS aren't going to stop code sharing. AA is AS' single largest codeshare partner and they continue to strengthen their FF relationship, most recently with reciprocal elite benefits.

MIASEA will get high load factors regardless. It's extremely easy to fill the plane - AS averaged over 95%, yet AA, not AS, carries the most O&D between the two cities.
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roseflyer
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:18 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
I think COPA should start PTY-SEA. PTY is the perfect connecting point from Seattle to South America, it's shorter than connecting through MIA:

I can't imagine that being possible on their 737s. SEA-PTY is longer than JFK-LHR and would be 300 miles longer than the longest 737 route. SEA-MIA is a thousand miles shorter and still on the edge of the 738s range.
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BoeingGuy
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:21 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 18):
but a day flight leaving SEA at 12N arriving MIA at 8P or so would work better for evening connections to South America. Likewise a westbound flight leaving MIA at 8A arriving SEA at 11A

That was almost exactly the timing of the old AA flights 25/26 SEA-MIA.
 
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RWA380
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:51 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 20):
I can't imagine that being possible on their 737s. SEA-PTY is longer than JFK-LHR and would be 300 miles longer than the longest 737 route.

I would think, unless Copa could get another type of aircraft,like a used 757,and why would they do that, CM would need to make some enroute stop, I'd presume Mexico somewhere not too far off the direct route, all this provided they could get 5th freedom rights. I doubt CM would take on either venture, they have other fish to fry.
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SESGDL
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:03 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 17):

Yes, there is absolutely a market. Florida-Japan is around 165 PDEW.

Here we go again... The question was asked of MIA-NRT, not Florida-Japan, that's like asking if there's a market for SMF-FUK service and saying, "Yes, there's definitely a market between California and Japan. In fact, MIA-NRT is such a large market that no carrier has ever flown it, or even attempted to, in spite of the fact that there have been aircraft with the capability to do so for decades...  

Jeremy
 
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:07 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 23):
Yes, there is absolutely a market. Florida-Japan is around 165 PDEW.

Here we go again... The question was asked of MIA-NRT, not Florida-Japan, that's like asking if there's a market for SMF-FUK service and saying, "Yes, there's definitely a market between California and Japan.

And is even that 165 passengers on a 777-300ER going to be profitable for such a long haul? Can the -200 do it? Maybe some of the 165 have their FF miles on DL and would rather do MIA-ATL-NRT.

There's a market for almost everything, especially SMF-FUK, but is the market big enough to be a profitable flight.
 
roseflyer
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:14 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 18):
The profitability of the MIA-SEA flight in both directions doesn't just depend on the connections in MIA to flights going to South America. On the other side, it depends also on the connections in SEA to Alaska (Anchorage, Juneau,... or wherever AS flies in the Northwest) which depends whether AA keeps code sharing with AS or not. If AA and AS stop code sharing then the load factors will be low.

Connections to Alaska mean some, but I don't think anywhere near as much as those from MIA. If going to Alaska, you are almost destined to connect via SEA to any city other than ANC. Timing does not matter as much since everything goes through SEA, so flying MIA-DFW-SEA-JNU isn't a big problem since AS and its codeshare partners are going to get the market. Also Alaska is a much smaller market than what AA serves from MIA.

SEA-MIA would connect to the Caribbean and South America where there is much more competition. Neither DL nor UA are as big in Latin America (excluding Mexico), but offer quite a bit of competition.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 21):
Quoting American 767 (Reply 18):
but a day flight leaving SEA at 12N arriving MIA at 8P or so would work better for evening connections to South America. Likewise a westbound flight leaving MIA at 8A arriving SEA at 11A

That was almost exactly the timing of the old AA flights 25/26 SEA-MIA.

Yes it connected to the NRT flight.
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wedgetail737
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:15 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 22):
I would think, unless Copa could get another type of aircraft,like a used 757,and why would they do that, CM would need to make some enroute stop, I'd presume Mexico somewhere not too far off the direct route, all this provided they could get 5th freedom rights. I doubt CM would take on either venture, they have other fish to fry.

CM could make SEA and extension of their PTY-MEX service using a -700 or -800. Not that it's all that likely.
 
MAH4546
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:19 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 24):
There's a market for almost everything, especially SMF-FUK, but is the market big enough to be a profitable flight.

Absolutely. Florida-Japan is 165 PDEW. You have to look at the entire state in this instance because so much of the traffic is leisure and much goes to MCO, even when also visiting MIA. Plus, no doubt Orlando would play a critical component in filling the plane. No different when analyzing market size between LA and Europe - one must consider SFO because the airports are often used interchangeably by European travellers coming to California. Miami-Asia is around 410 PDEW, albeit including Asian destinations that would typically go trans-Atlantix (I.e. India), so there you easily fill a plane with connection to key markets like Hong Kong and Manila. The market to HKG is particularly strong and very high-yielding, and it would play a key role in filling premium cabins on any MIANRT flight. Lest we forget non-stop service will stimulate the market between 100 and 200% in the short term and 400 to 700% in the long-term.

ATLSEL is 151 PDEW, and we can thank more than a decade of non-stop service for creating this market, one of the largest between Asia and the U.S.
a.
 
laca773
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:47 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 15):
It's coming back, and the schedule will almost certainly mirror AA's MIAPHX schedule. The only question about its return is whether AA will wait for winter, or squeeze it into the June 14th major schedule change that should be public in 3-4 weeks.

I appreciate your enthusiasm for AA. Things are different when a company is in BK, especially when they need to reduce their costs. If AA were to bring back MIA-SEA-MIA, I think it would be better to start it on a seasonal basis. Also, I feel the A319 would be a much better a/c for this route over the 738. It has good long range economics and will gain higher yields with the reduced capacity (Is the first Airbus due to arrive in early 2013?).

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 16):

Is there really a market for MIA-NRT non-stop? I was hoping AA would be the entrant in SJC-NRT again so that flight could earn AS miles.

I'm sure there is. There's so much talk about it on all the aviation, frequent flyer sites now and over the years. I do think the 77W is too much a/c for the route to start. The 77L or 788 would be better to start, 3X per week.
 
TLHFLA
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:28 am

If AA brings back MIA-SEA, I am thiking it will be either a 738 or 757 flight. It was a 763 when they previously flew the route.
Bill in ATL
 
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RWA380
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:50 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 26):

CM could make SEA and extension of their PTY-MEX service using a -700 or -800. Not that it's all that likely.

Yeah, they could, but what advantage would it give Copa to have a ten hour plus flight with enroute stop, probaly in the middle of the night, just to get to PTY, then your connection time, and depending on destination, another 1-8 hour flight. You can make easier connections via ATL or IAH to most southern destinations, Copa wouldn't do well in this kind of route IMHO.
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:52 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 28):
If AA were to bring back MIA-SEA-MIA, I think it would be better to start it on a seasonal basis.

It's not a seasonal demand route. That makes no sense. It also doesn't need to wait for an A319, when AA's 757 is the perfect size aircraft for the market. When in BK, airlines continue to operate as normally. That included entering new markets after competitors leave a service gap. AA in bankruptcy doesn't change anything.
a.
 
ASFlyer
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:17 am

Even with Alaska's much lower cost's they have struggled with MIA - despite high load factors. Evidenced by the red-eye flights and the imminent move to FLL to lower the costs in order to make the route rise to a more profitable level. At one point it was dropped from the schedule for a short time. The times have been changed probably 1/2 dozen times trying to find just the right place for it to work. If it was a huge money maker Alaska would have A) added a second nonstop or more and B) operated a more attractive schedule where they could actually command higher fares. MIA hasn't blown anyone's socks off but it has lasted 10 years so I imagine it's pulling it's weight for the most part. Until AA lowers their costs considerably, I don't see them adding a route that will, at current costs, lose money for them. That's just my take - but I'm not a rAAbid MIA fan so I don't see things the same way some do. I'm just basing my thoughts on evidence to this point.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:21 am

Given VX. WN and B6, I would think SEAMIA would have slightly better yields than FLL....
 
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RWA380
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:32 am

Quoting BobLoblaw (Reply 33):
Given VX. WN and B6, I would think SEAMIA would have slightly better yields than FLL....

VX, WN and B6 don't pose much threat to AS on the FLL route, AS flights are filled with loyal AS fliers from Alaska and the Pacific Northwest, it would be most peoples first choice carrier, long before they would choose VX, WN or B6. AS has their largest hub on one end of this route as well, VX, WN and B6 offer little on either end of SEA-FLL. I believe AS will not loose many passengers with the move to FLL.
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Bobloblaw
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:34 am

[

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 34):
VX, WN and B6 don't pose much threat to AS on the FLL route, AS flights are filled with loyal AS fliers from Alaska and the Pacific Northwest, it would be most peoples first choice carrier, long before they would choose VX, WN or B6. AS has their largest hub on one end of this route as well, VX, WN and B6 offer little on either end of SEA-FLL. I believe AS will not loose many passengers with the move to FLL.

Wont AS match WN and VX fares from SEA to FLL? I dont think they will lose pax by moving to FLL from MIA, but their fare mix might be worse.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:01 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 30):
Yeah, they could, but what advantage would it give Copa to have a ten hour plus flight with enroute stop, probaly in the middle of the night, just to get to PTY, then your connection time, and depending on destination, another 1-8 hour flight. You can make easier connections via ATL or IAH to most southern destinations, Copa wouldn't do well in this kind of route IMHO.

I tend to agree. If AM couldn't make it work with their 73G's on the SEA-MEX route with connections to Latin America, I don't think anyone can. Personally, I would love to see LAN into SEA, but again, not too terribly likely.
 
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RWA380
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:10 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 36):
I tend to agree. If AM couldn't make it work with their 73G's on the SEA-MEX route with connections to Latin America, I don't think anyone can

I had forgot about AM's SEA service, it seems you've proven both our point very well. Funny that MX's SEA-PVR-MEX & SEA-MZT-MEX 72S services lasted for as many years as they did. Albeit a different decade where 75% loads were good, and the 72S was flown on routes like this. MX however did not do nearly as well at PDX going to GDL.
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SHUPirate1
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:00 am

Quoting GEN2STEW (Thread starter):
And no TRI-RAIL to MIA is not an option.

Yet. It will as soon as Miami Central Station opens in mid-2013.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 27):
Miami-Asia is around 410 PDEW, albeit including Asian destinations that would typically go trans-Atlantix (I.e. India), so there you easily fill a plane with connection to key markets like Hong Kong and Manila.

So would MIA-NRT not be a better route for Delta to start, if they were able to pick up the slots at NRT for it?
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SurfandSnow
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:03 pm

Quoting GEN2STEW (Thread starter):
what will this do for code share PAX

I assume you mean the AA codeshare pax, as it should be noted that DL also codeshares with the SEA-MIA flight. Such pax will:

1) Accept the change in airport. AA has suddenly renewed its commitment to FLL, what with the return of LAX-FLL and additional frequencies to the cornerstone hubs at DFW, ORD, and JFK. They've also kept the FLL-PAP flight around even as almost every other mainline p2p flight (anything not starting or ending in DFW, ORD, MIA, JFK, or LAX) has been cut as part of the cornerstone strategy. I would assume this is all because there is significant demand from their Gold Coast FF base for options out of the popular FLL airport.

2) Connect via DFW, ORD, LAX, or JFK if it is imperative to leave from MIA. I suppose there are always some people who prefer the convenience of certain airports even if it means a connection, but I would think most folks would rather make the short drive up to FLL and enjoy the convenient nonstop service than endure the hassles and inherent risk of a connection.

Remember, there isn't much that these pax can do. There is no alternative nonstop option, so they either stick with AA/AS or take another airline that requires a connection anyway.

Quoting GEN2STEW (Thread starter):
onward connections to S. America/ Caribbean?

What connections were these? The SEA-MIA flight is timed for O&D travelers, not connections (not on the MIA end, anyway). The redeye departure from SEA and early morning arrival into MIA allows for easy connections TO the Caribbean, but most folks headed to South America would be stuck waiting around all day - exhausted from the redeye, no less - for the evening redeye departure bank to South America. The return morning departure from SEA coincided well with those connecting FROM South America, but left far too early for anyone coming back from the Caribbean. Anybody coming in from the Caribbean would have to overnight at MIA if taking the nonstop return to SEA, or double connect via a second AA hub to get all the way back in the same day.

Let's keep in mind that the Caribbean is not a terribly big draw from Seattle, where folks are much more likely to head to Hawaii or the Mexican Riviera for their beach vacations. As has been said numerous times here on a.net, the Caribbean overwhelmingly caters to folks living east of the Mississippi, and Hawaii has similar appeal for just about everybody west of it. Relatively little demand for the Caribbean from anywhere in the West, ditto for Hawaii when it comes to the East. Those that would fly all the way to the Caribbean from Seattle (as oppose to taking a cruise from Florida, which these flights do try to cater to) would most likely connect through ATL or CLT. Those headed to South America from Seattle would probably connect through DFW, IAH, or ATL. If it involves a smaller market accessible only from MIA, such as GND or LPB, then a double connection is to be expected for such an itinerary.
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gen2stew
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:55 pm

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 38):
Quoting GEN2STEW (Thread starter):And no TRI-RAIL to MIA is not an option.
Yet. It will as soon as Miami Central Station opens in mid-2013.

I still think it'll be a MAJOR SCHLEP. Ex. After a night-coach cross counry flight the PAX will: claim bags, wait for the cramped rickedy shuttle to the FLL TRI-RAIL station, ride the 30-40mins to MIA HUB, then check back in at MIA. I feel this option will only be viable if A) the pax is really cost sensitive and money is more valued than time orB) the destination is only served from MIA.
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SHUPirate1
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:01 pm

Quoting GEN2STEW (Reply 40):

I still think it'll be a MAJOR SCHLEP. Ex. After a night-coach cross counry flight the PAX will: claim bags, wait for the cramped rickedy shuttle to the FLL TRI-RAIL station, ride the 30-40mins to MIA HUB, then check back in at MIA. I feel this option will only be viable if A) the pax is really cost sensitive and money is more valued than time orB) the destination is only served from MIA.

That's what I get for taking the comment out of context in thought as well as in text. Yes, for people transiting from the AS flight at FLL to an AA MIA flight, that's a significant hassle.
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MAV88
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:30 pm

I would like to think that the South Florida region, MIA, FLL and PBI, could easily support year round, multiple daily flights to SEA. Say 3 daily in the slower season and 4-5 daily in the high season.
 
hiflyeras
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:54 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 37):
Funny that MX's SEA-PVR-MEX & SEA-MZT-MEX 72S services lasted for as many years as they did.

You're taking me back, RWA! I forgot about MX flying those routes! I remember that MX 727...it was all coach and I was on a flight SEA-PVR back in the mid-80's before AS drove them out. I swear I saw splits of wine on the meal trays when the FA served the cockpit! I was praying they hadn't drank too much wine to land the plane!
 
ckfred
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:36 pm

AS used to have SEA-MIA earlier in the day. This was back in 2003, but I was flying SEA-ORD on AA, with a 10:30am departure. The flight was horribly overbooked. At one point, the gate agent announced that every passenger who was booked through ORD to MIA was being put on the AS non-stop. Despite the flight leaving around 12:30pm, passengers would be into MIA about 30 minutes ahead of AA's connecting flight from ORD.

Back in the late 1990s, I believe AA used to fly MIA-SEA with a 767. A friend of mine was an AA 757/767 F/O at the time, and he worked that flight with some regularlity, despite being ORD crew base. At the time, it was AA's longest route for non-international pilots.

I would think that, with the size of the Sea-Tac metro area and the amount of business travel it generates, AA would let MIA-SEA go dormant.
 
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RWA380
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:18 pm

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 43):
You're taking me back, RWA! I forgot about MX flying those routes! I remember that MX 727...it was all coach and I was on a flight SEA-PVR back in the mid-80's before AS drove them out. I swear I saw splits of wine on the meal trays when the FA served the cockpit! I was praying they hadn't drank too much wine to land the plane!

I never flew MX, and didn't know it was all Y, yuck! AS did chase them off though, heck AS just had a better product, and a large customer base in SEA. Times have sure changed, meals with wine, heck, meals even w/o wine. I bet flying MX in the 80's, there was bound to be some praying at some point during the journey.  
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BoeingGuy
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:42 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 44):
Back in the late 1990s, I believe AA used to fly MIA-SEA with a 767. A friend of mine was an AA 757/767 F/O at the time, and he worked that flight with some regularlity, despite being ORD crew base. At the time, it was AA's longest route for non-international pilots.

Yes, that has been well discussed here already. AA 25/26 were through routed MIA-SEA-NRT always with an equipment change at SEA. It was either a 767-300 or 757, depending on the season. Someone else stated that it was a 767-200 at times, although I never saw that. Did the flight several times (and also did the 777 SEA-NRT several times).

It was discontinued around Dec. 2001 after 9/11.

It's not the longest non-international route in the US of course, since there is Hawaii, but SEA-MIA is the longest flight in the US lower 48 states. BLI-EYW would be longer, but doubt that would work so well economically or operationally.  
 
commavia
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:06 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 46):
It was either a 767-300 or 757, depending on the season. Someone else stated that it was a 767-200 at times, although I never saw that.

It was a 767-200 in Fall 1999, at least!  
 
boslax
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:26 pm

a few thoughts and questions,

I would have thought otherwise, but 70% of the MIA-SEA O&D market, originates in MIA. Advantage AA if they choose to serve the market.

Even with the only nonstop service in the market, AS was only getting 39% of the local traffic, AA was carrying 33%, thru connections via their other hubs. AS must believe they can get a higher percentage of the local traffic in the FLL-SEA market which would offset any potential loss of AA feed traffic that they were carrying beyond MIA. The size of the MIA and FLL local markets to/from MIA is 159 and 156 PDEW's respectively.

Did FLL offer any incentives?

Who ground handled AS at MIA? Was it AA, if so, maybe they were just too expensive and were not budging. AA could have played hardball, especially as their in bankruptcy, and dared AS to find a better deal. And maybe they did at FLL.
 
tommy767
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RE: NO More MIA-SEA N/S

Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:43 pm

I could definitely see it as a 738 in the future on AA. AA serves most of their western stations from MIA: LAX, SFO, SEA, LAS, PHX, DEN..

Gee, wonder if UA will ever step up their game as well and add back MIA-SFO/LAX?
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