atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

NK Adds More To DFW!

Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:18 pm

Spirit announces they will add DFW-TPA and DFW-TLC, Spirit's first international route out of DFW.

Source: DFW Airport @dfwairport

. @spiritairlines just announced they will begin service from #DFW to Tampa beginning May 4, 2012.

DFW Airport @dfwairport

Spirit launching new service to Toluca, Mexico this year

http://marketing.spirit.com/traveldeals/air.php?s=847&mw=1

Spirit at DFW is expanding!

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
User avatar
gdg9
Posts: 734
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:42 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:25 pm

It seems Spirit is doing much better in their second attempt at DFW, of course, with American so deeply wounded and unable to defend their turf as they had in the past (FLL flights for example), this is not surprising. Good news for DFW residents.
 
DFWHeavy
Posts: 518
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:35 pm

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:32 pm

I would imagine Spirit is using Terminal-E correct? If so, how will they handle the Mexico flight? Will they arrive at Terminal D and then have the plane towed over to terminal E?
Christopher W Slovacek
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:37 pm

Yup Spirit just filed with the DOT.

They propose initially one daily service utilizing mix of 145-seat A319 and 178-seat A320 aircraft per below schedule effective May 2012.

NK161 DFW-TLC 2350-0224+1
NK162 TLC-DFW 0320-0600

Spirit also they forecast to increase service at later stage dependent on demand.

OST-2012-0021
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
AA737-823
Posts: 4887
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 11:10 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:44 pm

Who on Earth wants to arrive at Toluca at TWO IN THE MORNING!?!?!

Or leave at THREE??

I wish they'd move themselves into the Delta Satellite terminal... they could have their own mini-hub over there.
 
blink182
Posts: 5269
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:00 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 4):
Who on Earth wants to arrive at Toluca at TWO IN THE MORNING!?!?!

Or leave at THREE??

I wish they'd move themselves into the Delta Satellite terminal... they could have their own mini-hub over there.

They could tack on an "underground passage fee" and a "Terminal D Spirit Customs Fee." Nonetheless, competition is always a good thing, even if its at two or three in the morning. Yawn.
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:03 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 4):
Who on Earth wants to arrive at Toluca at TWO IN THE MORNING!?!?!

I would not worry much about it - its Latin America and middle of the night flights are quite common.

Come to LAX and you'll see folks like Volaris, TACA, etc coming and going at all wee hours.

Ultimately this flight is clever utilization flying with a plane parked at DFW already. Also the $9 fares certainly wont hurt to drive demand.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
jfk777
Posts: 5816
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:26 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
NK161 DFW-TLC 2350-0224+1
NK162 TLC-DFW 0320-0600

this reminds me of the FLL to Barranquilla schedule. Why 0230, what an awful time.
 
User avatar
IrishAyes
Posts: 2144
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:04 pm

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:27 pm

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 1):
It seems Spirit is doing much better in their second attempt at DFW, of course, with American so deeply wounded and unable to defend their turf as they had in the past (FLL flights for example), this is not surprising. Good news for DFW residents.

Gotta hand it to NK, they have some smart people working for them. The industry landscape has completely changed from when they first started DFW a few years back; in the sense that NK was not yet a fully ULCC at the time, but purely an 'LCC' with lots of gray areas in terms of what their value proposition was. AA was still largely a full-service carrier without having the ancillary practices in place (i.e. charging for checked bags) and this was pre-industry mega consolidation.

Now that NK has defined its 'niche' and the general public perception of so-called legacy carriers such as AA have blurred a bit more, it gives NK a better idea on which segments to go after, and there certainly is a market for them at DFW capable of giving them the business they need to succeed.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
They propose initially one daily service utilizing mix of 145-seat A319 and 178-seat A320 aircraft per below schedule effective May 2012.

NK161 DFW-TLC 2350-0224+1
NK162 TLC-DFW 0320-0600

Spirit also they forecast to increase service at later stage dependent on demand

Yup, pretty horrendous timings, but fairly minimal risk given the available aircraft on the ground. Also, definitely a subtly bold move/hint towards AA indicating that not just their domestic flights from DFW are subject to attack. The Latin American ops at DFW are a goldmine, especially the RJ flights to the secondary markets in Mexico...very interesting times ahead.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 4):
I wish they'd move themselves into the Delta Satellite terminal... they could have their own mini-hub over there.

Isn't there still plenty of space to go around in E?
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:51 pm

Out of curiosity does anyone know if NK now self handles at DFW, or if they still use 3rd party vendors?
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
blink182
Posts: 5269
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:51 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
NK162 TLC-DFW 0320-0600

Bizarrely enough, this would be a great feeder into AA's morning DFW departures wave.
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
avi8
Posts: 865
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:36 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:05 am

What is the schedule and frequency for TPA?
avi8
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 1680
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:06 am

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 1):
It seems Spirit is doing much better in their second attempt at DFW, of course, with American so deeply wounded and unable to defend their turf as they had in the past

What makes you think AA is deeply wounded and unable to defend its turf??? This is such a myth. AA hasnt lost corporate traffic at DFW and AA's costs will be coming down soon. NK is serving niche markets from DFW and has started a whole bunch of new markets outside their traditional strength which is FLL, Carribbean and Latin America. We dont even know yet if their new flying is profitable.

It is a myth that airlines when they file for chpt 9 are at some type of competitive disadvantage.
Let me ask you. How well did FL make out in ATL when DL was in bankruptcy? Also how much revenue did AA pick up from UA in ORD and on the transcons when UA was in bankruptcy??? I am betting slim to none.

In fact DL's emergence from bankruptcy with leaner costs is the MAIN reason why FL jumped when WN offered to buy them at a 60% premium. FL has slowly seen their ATL position weaken with a stronger post BK Delta.
 
GSPSPOT
Posts: 2171
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:44 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:06 am

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 8):
Isn't there still plenty of space to go around in E?

Probably, but it would be SO COOL to see that satellite in use again!!
Finally made it to an airline mecca!
 
commavia
Posts: 9629
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:37 am

Quoting BobLoblaw (Reply 12):
What makes you think AA is deeply wounded and unable to defend its turf??? This is such a myth.

  

AA may have a cost and revenue challenge in a lot of places, but generally, DFW ain't one of them. I suspect Spirit will have about as much impact on AA's hub at DFW as they have had on AA's hub at Miami - which is to say, basically none. They cater to two completely and totally different market segments. Spirit is most likely not stealing all that many people from DFW - they are stimulating the ultra-elastic, ultra-price-sensitive, very bottom of the market - in many cases, people who are not switching from AA, but switching from not flying at all. What traffic Spirit does pick up from AA is likely to be traffic AA is happy to see go as it reduces capacity and reduces its exposure to catering to this much more fare-conscious traveler set.

Quoting BobLoblaw (Reply 12):
In fact DL's emergence from bankruptcy with leaner costs is the MAIN reason why FL jumped when WN offered to buy them at a 60% premium. FL has slowly seen their ATL position weaken with a stronger post BK Delta.

  

I think the example of Delta in Atlanta is quite instructive. Post-bankruptcy, and with the right costs, Delta was able to dramatically change the competitive dynamics in the Atlanta market and handily dominate AirTran in virtually every market where they competed - not only capturing substantially more market share, but also at generally substantially higher fares.
 
User avatar
gdg9
Posts: 734
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:42 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:03 am

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 2):
I would imagine Spirit is using Terminal-E correct? If so, how will they handle the Mexico flight? Will they arrive at Terminal D and then have the plane towed over to terminal E?

Frontier did this a few year back for their shortlived DFW-Mazatlan flight. Arrive at D, dump off the pax, and tow over to E. NK is using E.

Quoting BobLoblaw (Reply 12):
What makes you think AA is deeply wounded and unable to defend its turf??? This is such a myth.

When NK started FLL a few years ago, AA matched or cut the fares to FLL on all their flights, as well as MIA flights too IIRC, until such time that NK, which started at 1x daily, simply couldn't compete against AA which was meeting or beating the price on multiple flights at various times. AA did the same thing to Air Tran around the same time with AirTran's LAX flights. AA met or beat the price on ALL flights to every port in the L.A. area, until AirTran dropped the route.

Doubtless AA took a loss for a time on these routes, but once NK or AirTran were seen off, AA raised the fares again. Good strategy by them of course.

Now, in bankruptcy, I haven't heard (and maybe they indeed have) of AA matching or beating the fares for NK or even Virgin America. In the past they would have fought a good fare war, now, I don't see that happening. These others folks are nipping in while AA is down and gaining a foothold that they were unable to do in the past.

As IrishAyes pointed out above, perhaps a lot of that is based on changing business models, but I still am of the opinion that AA, in their current state, down, maybe not out, but certainly down, can't as easily fend of these other carriers as they did in the past.

Of course, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that even with all of this, AA/MQ still make up about 84% of DFW traffic. But it is nice to see some new entrants to the DFW market.
 
GSPSPOT
Posts: 2171
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:44 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:08 am

Seems to me (as was pointed out in earlier posts about DL's BK), that BK is actually GOOD for AA's competitive position, and in no way would hinder their determination or ability to defend their home turf.
Finally made it to an airline mecca!
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:13 am

The loaded Tampa schedule is:

NK812 DFW-TPA 1600-1930
NK813 TPA-DFW 2020-2215
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
gdg9
Posts: 734
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:42 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:14 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
OST-2012-0021

I'm having a hard time finding the link, can you help? Thanks

Never mind, found it!
http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=DOT-OST-2012-0021-0001

[Edited 2012-02-09 17:33:36]
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 6147
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:33 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
NK161 DFW-TLC 2350-0224+1
NK162 TLC-DFW 0320-0600
Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 4):
Who on Earth wants to arrive at Toluca at TWO IN THE MORNING!?!?!

Or leave at THREE??

Yes, let me join you in losing my lunch at that hideous schedule.
 
avi8
Posts: 865
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:36 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:54 am

Hate to break it to those in the Spirit HQ's but these schedules are a bit lame. Horrible actually, and many of their schedules are in fact, terrible. Buut... they're making money out of it, so by all means, keep it up!
avi8
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 1680
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:08 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 14):
AA may have a cost and revenue challenge in a lot of places, but generally, DFW ain't one of them.

What people need to remember is BK isnt the problem. BK is SOLVING the problem. The problem was AA pre bankruptcy. That was the time to take on AA. The entire reason DL wants to buy AA is because Delta is THREATENED by a post BK AMR with lower costs just as DL's will be going up.


It is like Peter Schiff says about recessions. The problems isnt the recession, the recession is the cure. The problem was the reckless economic boom. The recession is correcting the inefficiencies of the boom. Same goes with BK.
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 1680
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:11 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
NK812 DFW-TPA 1600-1930
NK813 TPA-DFW 2020-2215

50 minute turn on a 178 seat A320 with a 1600 departure from DFW with afternoon spring and summer t-storms......I just hope that pax planning to arrive back in DFW at 2215 arent planning to go into work the next morning. I bet the A+15 on the return will be in the 10-20% range.
 
User avatar
IrishAyes
Posts: 2144
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:04 pm

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:32 am

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 15):
Now, in bankruptcy, I haven't heard (and maybe they indeed have) of AA matching or beating the fares for NK or even Virgin America. In the past they would have fought a good fare war, now, I don't see that happening. These others folks are nipping in while AA is down and gaining a foothold that they were unable to do in the past.

As IrishAyes pointed out above, perhaps a lot of that is based on changing business models, but I still am of the opinion that AA, in their current state, down, maybe not out, but certainly down, can't as easily fend of these other carriers as they did in the past.

Thanks for the shout out. I am enjoying this discussion, lots of very good points raised by the People here, and I think many of them individually have a certain degree of validity to them.

For starters, I also don't truly believe AA is in a debilitated position at DFW, and I am sure they have retained their highly-valued corporate following in spite of their restructuring efforts. With regards to new carriers setting up shop at DFW, I'd simply just argue that AA has become a lot less "bullish" about defending their turf against them, and for several reasons.

One, being that NK is, as Commavia pointed out, going after the bottom barrel traffic at DFW, representing a segment that would either fly NK vs. not fly at all.

Two, AA has bigger fish to fry at this point. The fact is they are indeed in a weaker position than they were in when FL was expanding at DFW, or NK originally commenced their 1x daily DFWFLL flight. Their focus needs to be on proving to unsecured creditors that they have a viable plan to remain a standalone carrier once they emerge from under Ch. 11 protection.

My one area of questioning revolves around how AA perceives the likes of VX as a threat.
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
OB1504
Posts: 2985
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:10 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Out of curiosity does anyone know if NK now self handles at DFW, or if they still use 3rd party vendors?

I believe their customer service agents are vendors, so it would stand to reason that their ramp service is contracted out, too.

Quoting avi8 (Reply 20):
Hate to break it to those in the Spirit HQ's but these schedules are a bit lame. Horrible actually, and many of their schedules are in fact, terrible. Buut... they're making money out of it, so by all means, keep it up!

Then again, the argument can be made that if the flights are turning a profit, the schedules aren't bad.

[Edited 2012-02-09 23:12:30]
 
xaapb
Posts: 360
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:08 pm

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:33 pm

Well... the schedules indeed are horrible but I'm assuming very cheap fares for the DFW-TLC-DFW.
Probably this could be a very good "shopping flight". Take the flight, sleep, arriving very early into DFW, then to your hotel have a 2 or 3 hour nap then breakfast and to the mall after that have dinner, and back to the airport to catch the flight back to TLC.

Also as they pointed out already you can grab that flight and connect to the US or whatever with AA.
greetings
Jorge Meneses
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:43 pm

Quoting BobLoblaw (Reply 21):
What people need to remember is BK isnt the problem. BK is SOLVING the problem. The problem was AA pre bankruptcy. That was the time to take on AA. The entire reason DL wants to buy AA is because Delta is THREATENED by a post BK AMR with lower costs just as DL's will be going up.

Until they solve that problem, expect NK to pick on AA some more by invading the DFW turf!

Anybody else think that NK would invade ORD some more? Why are they doing crazy expansion at DFW? I mean, great for them and all but there's a new route added from DFW by NK every week!
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
ROSWELL41
Posts: 754
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2001 3:50 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:46 pm

From what I've heard from talking to some NK customer services agents, they expect more expansion at ORD as well.
 
User avatar
TWA1985
Posts: 463
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:24 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:49 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 26):
Anybody else think that NK would invade ORD some more?


That is what I am wondering. I have a feeling they will increase ORD service as well. Anyone know how they are doing in Chicago?
Live Young. Live Wild. Live Free.
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 6147
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:36 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 26):
Quoting BobLoblaw (Reply 21):
What people need to remember is BK isnt the problem. BK is SOLVING the problem. The problem was AA pre bankruptcy. That was the time to take on AA. The entire reason DL wants to buy AA is because Delta is THREATENED by a post BK AMR with lower costs just as DL's will be going up.

Until they solve that problem, expect NK to pick on AA some more by invading the DFW turf!

Ch11 does limit their ability to loss lead and retaliate crazily.
 
blueflyer
Posts: 3625
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:51 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 14):
I suspect Spirit will have about as much impact on AA's hub at DFW as they have had on AA's hub at Miami - which is to say, basically none. They cater to two completely and totally different market segments. Spirit is most likely not stealing all that many people from DFW

If there's an airline that Spirit might be stealing customers from, it's Southwest. There is a large catchment area West of DFW (Fort Worth and suburbs) that has to drive by the airport on their way to Love Field to fly Southwest, and it's becoming more and more of a hassle with construction and increasing congestion.

The more destinations Spirit offers out of DFW, the less reasons these passengers have to make the trek to Love Field. It certainly doesn't hurt either that every non-stop Spirit destination out of DFW takes at least one stop on Southwest.

(just so no one misinterprets me, I am not predicting doom and gloom for Southwest - they'd still do just fine even if they lost every passenger West of DFW)
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has no clothes.
 
rojo
Posts: 2254
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 6:08 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:07 pm

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 15):
When NK started FLL a few years ago, AA matched or cut the fares to FLL on all their flights, as well as MIA flights too IIRC, until such time that NK, which started at 1x daily, simply couldn't compete against AA which was meeting or beating the price on multiple flights at various times. AA did the same thing to Air Tran around the same time with AirTran's LAX flights. AA met or beat the price on ALL flights to every port in the L.A. area, until AirTran dropped the route.

AA did not react to NK's flights DFW-FLL. NK actually started with 2x daily, not 1x day as you mention. AA just ingnored NK as it did with the other routes they started from DFW (LAS and ORD). Once NK took customers from AA (mainly VFR), they finally reacted, but in the DFW to LAS and FLL markets it was too late... AA filed for CH11 and NK announced more destinations (MCO, ATL, LGA, BOS, and AZA). In the last 30 days, NK has increased # of destinations from DFW by adding MYR and TPA.

NK is competing using price elasticity thanks to its very los CASM. It will be interesting to see if AA wants to stop NK from making DFW a base (for FA and Aircraft) or if they allow them to keep growing.
 
santi319
Posts: 323
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:47 pm

In the application to the D.O.T. It says "....between Dallas /Forth Worth, on one hand, and to Toluca/Mexico City, on the other hand, and beyond points in Panama and beyond, and to designate Spirit Airlines for such service".

Anyone familiar with D.O.T. Filings knows what this means??

Can we expect ORD in the near future, not so long ago I read that TLC airport had a meeting in November with NK and even the governor Eruviel from Mexico-state was present...

Something's definetly up...
 
don0245
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:44 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:58 pm

Flew NK once, never again!
 
AAIL86
Posts: 420
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:00 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 23):
One, being that NK is, as Commavia pointed out, going after the bottom barrel traffic at DFW, representing a segment that would either fly NK vs. not fly at all.

I don't think AA should be worried much, but if I were the station manager for Greyhound Dallas I'd be crapping my pants!

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 1):
Good news for DFW residents.

Yes, good news, if they enjoy having puke under the seat in front in them (happened to a co-worker of mine who flew NK recently) and making 17 different finanical transactions to complete one flight....  
Next
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4431
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:27 pm

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 34):
if they enjoy having puke under the seat in front in them (happened to a co-worker of mine who flew NK recently)

What do you know, that happened to a coworker of mine too!  
It is what it is...
 
milemaster
Posts: 994
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:19 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:02 pm

I think 6-12 months from now we'll be seeing them removing flights at the same speed they are adding them today.
 
skyone
Posts: 268
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:38 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:23 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 19):
Yes, let me join you in losing my lunch at that hideous schedule.

"Hideous"???, it is amazing, and considering I live 25 minutes away from TLC in Santa Fe Area of Mexico City, this will make for plenty of great Shopping Trips to DFW!!! If the price is correct, I will take at least 3 flights every year on this route. Hopefully NK will open a red eye to FLL from TLC and then, it will be another 3 flights a year for me on NK.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5258
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:43 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 14):
Post-bankruptcy, and with the right costs, Delta was able to dramatically change the competitive dynamics in the Atlanta market and handily dominate AirTran in virtually every market where they competed - not only capturing substantially more market share, but also at generally substantially higher fares.

But that was true even before the bankruptcy. DL has always had the dominant marketshare and fare premium over FL.
 
n471wn
Posts: 1321
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:23 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:23 am

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 30):
There is a large catchment area West of DFW (Fort Worth and suburbs) that has to drive by the airport on their way to Love Field to fly Southwest, and it's becoming more and more of a hassle with construction and increasing congestion.

And there is a large catchment area East and North of Dallas that must drive near DAL to get to DFW----point being is that one airport is not more convenient than the other one..... or in other words we need both airports
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 1875
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:42 pm

it will be interesting to see if NK takes over the spot of AirTran in adding some smaller/mid sized cities to connect to the larger cities at DFW and ORD like AirTran did at ATL. As of now, F9 and JetBlue are really the only low fare network carriers that seem to be interested in serving the smaller mid sized cities (probably more so for F9 since Jet Blue is mainly east coast). Southwest clearly at the time doesn't seem to be interested in those ciities, hence the axing of destinations like BMI, MLI, etc. Perhaps NK could have some success with that. They have already started service to some smaller airports like Plattsburgh NY and Charleston WV. Will be interesting to see with all the planes they have coming in the next few years.
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 1680
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:58 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 26):
Why are they doing crazy expansion at DFW?

I have always thought that the DFW area, given its population and income could support two hubbed carriers. AA has bene lucky for 5 years no one else has come into DFW. Now WN will be expanding from DAL come 2014 but WN's cost advantage isnt what it use to be, so NK probably isnt scared of WN


I say watch NK the next few years. If these new flights are profitable, the entire industry including WN and B6 will be facing a rouge elephant in NK. No one will be able to stop them as they can stimulate traffic that even WN cant stimulate and at fares even WN or B6 lose money on. Frequent flyer programs and corporate accounts wont matter to newly stimulated NK passengers. Thus it will be hard for the legacies and other LCCs to stop them.
 
Mexicana757
Posts: 2631
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 3:21 pm

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:40 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 26):

Anybody else think that NK would invade ORD some more? Why are they doing crazy expansion at DFW? I mean, great for them and all but there's a new route added from DFW by NK every week!
Quoting ROSWELL41 (Reply 27):
From what I've heard from talking to some NK customer services agents, they expect more expansion at ORD as well.
Quoting TWA1985 (Reply 28):
That is what I am wondering. I have a feeling they will increase ORD service as well. Anyone know how they are doing in Chicago?

Spirit may expand some more but where are they going to get the gates to do it from?? T3 has no open gates only option they have is to go to T5. In the OAG thread posted last week NK is cutting flights at ORD for the summer.

Quoting Santi319 (Reply 32):
In the application to the D.O.T. It says "....between Dallas /Forth Worth, on one hand, and to Toluca/Mexico City, on the other hand, and beyond points in Panama and beyond, and to designate Spirit Airlines for such service".

Anyone familiar with D.O.T. Filings knows what this means??

Can we expect ORD in the near future, not so long ago I read that TLC airport had a meeting in November with NK and even the governor Eruviel from Mexico-state was present...

Something's definetly up...

NK maybe is planning on adding more international flights out of DFW to Panama or other Latin American countries.

Hmmm would be interesting if they do apply for ORD-TLC, if they did I wonder if it would spark Volaris to start MDW-TLC since they have the authority to fly the route.
 
User avatar
fxramper
Posts: 5837
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:03 pm

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:50 pm

Has anyone used NK? They charge for the air you breath. The service isn't great. I hope AA runs them out of DFW.   
 
rojo
Posts: 2254
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 6:08 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:00 pm

Quoting BobLoblaw (Reply 41):
I have always thought that the DFW area, given its population and income could support two hubbed carriers. AA has bene lucky for 5 years no one else has come into DFW. Now WN will be expanding from DAL come 2014 but WN's cost advantage isnt what it use to be, so NK probably isnt scared of WN


I say watch NK the next few years. If these new flights are profitable, the entire industry including WN and B6 will be facing a rouge elephant in NK. No one will be able to stop them as they can stimulate traffic that even WN cant stimulate and at fares even WN or B6 lose money on. Frequent flyer programs and corporate accounts wont matter to newly stimulated NK passengers. Thus it will be hard for the legacies and other LCCs to stop them.

I totally agree with your post. Very few people think NK will become a powerful airline; the truth is they have been assaulting the turf of other airlines with a very low CASM. Allegiant stays away from competition by flying routes where they are the only airline in the market. NK is a hybrid which started to enter saturated markets and creates demand by offering very low fares. I don't think the legacies are scared of NK right now, since they keep thinking they cater to a different segment (business customers) compared to NK who targets the VFR (Visiting Friends and Relatives) market. Nevertheless, legacies still sell 30 to 40% of their tickets to VFR customers, so they count of them to fill their planes.
 
LOWS
Posts: 1194
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:37 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:20 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 4):
I wish they'd move themselves into the Delta Satellite terminal... they could have their own mini-hub over there.
Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 13):
Probably, but it would be SO COOL to see that satellite in use again!!

Is that the small building on the SE Corner of the Ramp in this photo?

http://goo.gl/BtTFj

What is it like?
 
User avatar
IrishAyes
Posts: 2144
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:04 pm

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:22 pm

Quoting skyone (Reply 37):
this will make for plenty of great Shopping Trips to DFW!!!

....but won't you have to pay more to bring your shopping back to Mexico by flying on NK? in the sense that, you may be spending more on transporting goods than the actual value spent on purchasing them!
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
skyone
Posts: 268
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 6:38 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:04 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 46):

Only on the return flight  

On the way there, no bags, just my back pack with a big bag sqwissed inside. Then, on the way back, one bag downstairs. Yes, NK does know how to stimulate demand !

And yes, the big legacy carriers do not understand yet the big problem they will face in the future if they let NK keep invading their hubs. Time will tell.
 
PI767
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:50 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:14 pm

Quoting LOWS (Reply 45):
Is that the small building on the SE Corner of the Ramp in this photo?

Yes... that is the Terminal E Satellite building.

However, I've never been inside of it to tell you what it is like.
"Piedmont. The Model of What a Good Airline Should Be."
 
AAtakeMeAway
Posts: 256
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:59 am

RE: NK Adds More To DFW!

Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:21 am

Regarding the Terminal E Satellite, it's my understanding that it will soon be reopened at least temporarily for some E airlines to move in there while E is renovated.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 76er, AApilot2b, AsiaTravel, BlueSky1976, BobMUC, flyingclrs727, iahcsr, Jetstar315, n27903, PanAm_DC10, S75752, SCQ83 and 228 guests