AirFrance : Can It Be The Number 1?

Mon Oct 09, 2000 10:40 am

Do you think AF can beat, in a few year, united (n 1), and Lufthansa (n 2)
I think AF can do this, and being n 1 is AF's objective.
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RE: AirFrance : Can It Be The Number 1?

Mon Oct 09, 2000 3:54 pm

As far as service goes, AF tops the list in my opinion as far as American and European carriers are concerned (I've never flown Singappore Airlines). I have flown them several times from IAH-CDG, a 10 hour flight. I have flown this route on many different aircraft, and the service was always great. AF's food is also great. The French know how to cook. On my last AF flight, the coach meal consisted of a lamb and pasta dish, a salad, shrimp with a honey-dijon mustard, and a dessert. The F/A's were always friendly, and I had a nice chat with the pilot on my way out of the plane.

AF is an excellent airline, and I do hope they become number one. The only thing that's holding them back right now is that they have too many aircraft types. But their changing that now. In a few years, AF will be #1.
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Mon Oct 09, 2000 6:50 pm

AF will never reach the high quality provided by SIA, CX, EK, and other world class airlines. Even if they try, their weekly strikes will kill any attempts...

Reach UA? How? Doubling passenger figures?

Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
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RE: No

Mon Oct 09, 2000 7:21 pm

I also think Air France will have to change their attitude towards non-French speaking passengers. Today it can be very frustrating when you try to speak English and they reply in French, or even transfer in Paris can be hard. The airline also have problems with strike, but I agree that the service must be great if you speak French!!
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RE: AirFrance : Can It Be The Number 1?

Mon Oct 09, 2000 7:40 pm


well well AF reaching UA...... mybe in terms of Service (might even already be the case)
but in terms of size...... rather never! unless UA is broken down into several airlines.....

AF is improving a lot and has done mega steps especially in terms of their intraeuropean traffic. They have improved greatly by adding nightstopovers in their destinations thus having the first morning deprature for biz.-travellers.
The onboard service of AF is one of the best in the world. However i don't think AF will grow at a greater pace as their main competitors (BA, KL and LH) since the french econmy doesn't support such growth on the long run. The only chance might be to relly more and more on their HUB in CDG for getting traffice shifted via CDG out of Germany, Belgium, Switzerland and others. The other big issue with AF is how they will develope in terms of ownership. The more it is privtized the more it has chances to develop.

AF Cabin Crew
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AirFrance : Can It Be The Number 1?

Mon Oct 09, 2000 9:47 pm

If Air France is far from beating UA, AA or DL in the race for the world's first carrier, It is not far from being Europe's first !
Hereunder are an article from the FT sharing with us Air France's fortune.
Also hereunder are the information I collected from Airline Business about the world's top 100 airlines for 1999. Air France is in very good position each time sometimes placed before LH and BA.
Air France is expecting to take delivery of a new 777-300 fleet as well as an A330 one, retiring at the same time its ageing A310 and B767.
The fleet will comprise 3 long haul model, the 747-200/300/400, the B777-200/300 and the A340-300/A330-200.
The European fleet will have only one model with the airbus narrowbodied fleet. A321/320/319/318's will fly our colours to Europe.
Remember that CDG is our pride possesion and is the envy of all our neighbours. BA, LH, KL, SR all wish they had CDG as their home base. It is the only European hub which has the possibility to extend substantially.
Also part of its assests is the Delta partnership. the second biggest over the atlantic after UA and LH. Delta is the most flown airline in the world and the premier airline from the USA to Europe.

Air France is soaring, meet the new european phenix !

Happy Flying,

AF Cabin Crew.

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Photo © Alain Mengus

Air France profits up
By Mark Odell in London and David Owen in Paris
Published: September 4 2000 10:10GMT | Last Updated: September 5 2000 03:36GMT

- Air France, the French national carrier, reported a sharp rise in operating profit for its first quarter on Monday, as strong traffic growth more than offset the sharp increase in fuel prices.

The result confirmed Air France as Europe's second-most profitable major airline, behind Germany's Lufthansa. Management said this strong performance was continuing. Buoyed by strong forward reservations for September, Air France forecast: "an improvement in operating income in the second-quarter compared to the same period last time, despite further fuel-price increases."

The Paris-based airline, which has come under intense scrutiny since the crash of one of its Concordes almost six weeks ago, saw underlying operating income, excluding gains from aircraft disposals, rise 43 per cent to E184m (from E128m last time) in the three months to 30 June.

Traffic, measured in revenue passenger kilometres, rose 10.7 per cent, against only a 5.7 per cent rise in capacity. Passenger numbers increased 7 per cent to 10.8m.

Strong growth in business traffic and the weak euro helped push up yield, or revenue per available seat kilometre flown, 10.4 per cent.

Analysts said Air France was benefiting from its strong Paris hub, good cost control and measured capacity growth.

"Air France is being relatively restrictive in its capacity growth, which is not what people have been used to in the past, and this bodes well for the supply and demand balance in the industry," said Mitesh Kotecha at UBS Warburg in London.

On the cost side, the airline suffered the negative impact of exchange rate changes, particularly fuel, which is priced in dollars. The fuel bill jumped by E145m ($130m), or 70 per cent, with E42m of that increase due to the weakness of the euro.

Headline operating profit rose 20 per cent to E185m (E153m), buoyed by a 19 per cent rise in revenue to E3bn (E2.52bn). Pre-tax profit rose by E4m to E251m, helped by a E89m gain from the disposal of part of its holding in Amadeus, the Madrid-based computer reservations system.

Air France's shares rose 3 per cent to E21.88 in Paris in mid-morning trade.

Top 11 airlines by passenger number (million passengers)

1 Delta Airlines 105.5
2 United Airlines 87.1
3 American Airlines 84.7
4 US Airways 58.8
5 Southwest Airlines 57.7
6 Northwest Airlines 56.1
7 Continental Airlines 45.5
8 All Nippon Airways 42.7
9 Air France 39.8
10 Lufthansa 38.9
11 British Airways 36.3

Top 10 by load factor

1 KLM 77.4%
2 Virgin Atlantic 77.0%
3 Air France 76.1%
4 Asiana Airlines 75.6%
5 Singapore Airlines 74.9%
6 Northwest Airlines 74.6%
7 EVA Air 74.6%
8 Korean Air 74.0 %
9 American Trans Air 73.7%
10 El Al 73.3%

Top 10 ranking by passenger traffic (RPK) - 1999

1 United Airlines
2 American Airlines
3 Delta Airlines
4 Northwest Airlines
5 British Airways
6 Continental Airlines
7 Air France
8 Japan Airlines
9 Lufthansa
10 US Airways
Ia Maitai to tatou tere !
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Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: Vadheim

Tue Oct 10, 2000 3:04 am

You are right about AF's strikes. That's a major problem in France, French workers tend to strike alot.

Also, about AF's service to non-speaking French passengers, it isn't that bad. I have spoken both French and English on AF, and have recieved great service both times. If you want good service, then be polite. I came back to the galley and asked for some water. The F/A ignored me. I then asked again, and included a simple s'il vous plaît (please), and the F/A gave me a glass of water and was extremely friendly.
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RE: AirFrance : Can It Be The Number 1?

Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:52 am

All right, UA is No 1 by passenger traffic, but how is LH No 2??
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Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2000 4:46 am

RE: AirFrance : Can It Be The Number 1?

Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:53 am

All right, UA is No 1 by passenger traffic, but how is LH No 2??
Posts: 4288
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

RE: AirFrance : Can It Be The Number 1?

Wed Oct 11, 2000 10:05 pm

CDG? If they don't start to fill up their empty information counters and don't employ more English speakers, more and more people will be pissed off at CDG...
Easy transfer? Never had such a horror like at CDG...compared to that: I have never had any problems at FRA or LHR. Why? People understand me if I have any questions, there are enough signs which show you the way, and not to forget: I can see airplanes from the terminals...

Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...

RE: Udo : Can It Be The Number 1?

Wed Oct 11, 2000 10:22 pm

I don't agree with you Udo....CDG is a far better hub than LHR or FRA.

Better than LHR, because the transfers are easier and quicker (I hate to clear custom at LHR and take a bus or walk 15' to switch terminals...)...

CDG has far more capacity growth capabilities than both LHR and FRA. And obviously it is well suited and geared toward AF needs...

As far as strikes, languages and so on....I have been away from France several years and now I can see that it has really improved...You are a tad bit wrong or exaggerating to say the least when you say that people there have a poor english...

AF is also improving and does not suffer from the comparison with LH (no great shakes...) , KLM (yuk...) or BA (great network but very average service overall)...And all the fleet moves are going in the right directions....It took them time to have an "industrial" approach, but now they do as good as anybody else if not better...And I think the Alliance Delta-AF is the best thing that could happen to them and they haven't finished to see the benefits of it yet...

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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

RE: Udo : Can It Be The Number 1?

Wed Oct 11, 2000 10:25 pm

People can write a l lot. What I have seen, felt and experienced at CDG is enough to say: Thanks, but AF and CDG never again...

Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...

RE: Udo : Can It Be The Number 1?

Wed Oct 11, 2000 10:29 pm


if your opinions are the results of a long series of bad experiences then you can definitely say there is a trend....But on this forum how many people say I hate this I hate that because of a single bad experience (ex: recent thread on AF and delays...)....

I continue to say that CDG is not the evil you say it is...Oh God knows I hate Paris and its inhabitants....


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