A388
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Why No Chrome Colors For VS & TG

Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:11 am

I have asked this in several threads but never received an answer so here it goes again: Why have VS and TG decided to abandon the very nice chrome colors in favor of the dull standard colors they use now? The strange thing about VS is that they started receiving the A333 in the standard colors and yet the do paint a A343 in the chrome colors later.

Is this paint type too expensive to apply or maintain? I think marketing wise the chrome livery is much nicer but that is my opinion.


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Is this color type really that problematic?


A388
 
EMBQA
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RE: Why No Chrome Colors For VS & TG

Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:15 am

Are you talking polished metal...?? Reason one is with Airbus you can't do bare metal polished because of the processed used in making their skins. American has been the only one ever to do it, and I'm not sure what they needed to do to acheive it.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
pictues
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RE: Why No Chrome Colors For VS & TG

Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:19 am

American A300's were painted Grey. I wonder if AA will change their paint scheme with the intro of the A320's or will they paint them grey like the A300's
 
deconz
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RE: Why No Chrome Colors For VS & TG

Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:36 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1):
Are you talking polished metal...??

I believe the OP is referring to metallic paint
 
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Polot
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RE: Why No Chrome Colors For VS & TG

Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:40 am

In regards to VS, I believe there was a problem with the metallic paint delaminating (stripping off), so they stopped using it in favor of a typical red paint until a solution was found.

For TG it probably was a matter of costs.

[Edited 2012-02-12 16:41:13]
 
A388
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RE: Why No Chrome Colors For VS & TG

Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:52 am

Quoting deconz (Reply 3):
I believe the OP is referring to metallic paint

My apologies for using the wrong words, yes, I mean metallic paint as seen on the tail logos of VS and TG.

Mods, can you edit my post to avoid misunderstanding? Again, my apologies for using the wrong words.

A388
 
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KGRB
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RE: Why No Chrome Colors For VS & TG

Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:53 am

Quoting pictues (Reply 2):

AA A300s were originally painted gray, but they did eventually receive the polished metal treatment like the rest of their fleet.


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pictues
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RE: Why No Chrome Colors For VS & TG

Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:18 am

ok i did not realize that, I guess the A320's will be polished metal then
 
EMBQA
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RE: Why No Chrome Colors For VS & TG

Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:09 am

Quoting pictues (Reply 7):
I guess the A320's will be polished metal then

You can not polish Airbus aircraft.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
AA737-823
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RE: Why No Chrome Colors For VS & TG

Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:42 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 8):
You can not polish Airbus aircraft.

Didja miss the whole conversation???
AA eventually strong-armed Airbus into a polished scheme on the A300s, AFTER having applied a ghastly grey paint coat.
I'm hoping that they'll come up with a similar option for the A320's... that would look very nice.
 
EMBQA
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RE: Why No Chrome Colors For VS & TG

Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:42 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 9):
Didja miss the whole conversation???
AA eventually strong-armed Airbus into a polished scheme on the A300s, AFTER having applied a ghastly grey paint coat.
I'm hoping that they'll come up with a similar option for the A320's... that would look very nice.

No I didn't miss anything. You're an A&P.. go look up Bonded Primer and what is required of it. Airbus uses Bonded Primer on their aircraft as do many European manufactures...ie ATR and Saab. Why do you think with the exception of Americans A300, you see none, zero bare metal on any Airbus aircraft...and American didn't strong arm Airbus. American just wrote an EO to remove the bonded primer and polish
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na
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RE: Why No Chrome Colors For VS & TG

Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:02 pm

The AA polished metal scheme has zero to do with this thread. There is no need to talk about it here and forget the real issue.

I also wondered why VS and TG abandoned the metallic paint, but havent any real info. I can only guess. VS´ aircraft used to have a shiny silver fuselage, since a few years its dull grey - despite that the aircraft painted in metallic in 1999/2000 were still looking good. Why grey now is beyond my understanding. Maybe a dull beancounter preferred dull grey to the shiny paint the shiny marketing guys liked.

What makes it more odd is that when tVS abandoned the silver paint they introduced metallic red for the decorated parts.

TG´move is probably similarly motivated but I noticed the metallic purple peeled off the leading edges of the tailfin and stabilizers (the latter are now boring grey again). The dull purple certainly doesnt look nice anymore.
 
A388
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RE: Why No Chrome Colors For VS & TG

Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:14 pm

Quoting na (Reply 11):
What makes it more odd is that when tVS abandoned the silver paint they introduced metallic red for the decorated parts.

TG´move is probably similarly motivated but I noticed the metallic purple peeled off the leading edges of the tailfin and stabilizers (the latter are now boring grey again). The dull purple certainly doesnt look nice anymore.

I totally agree with you on this. The metallic paint is just much nicer on the VS and TG tails. This is why I also like the BD livery (because of the metallic paint used to write the airline's name on the fuselage).



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I have also noted the peeling of the metallic paint both the 744 tails of VS and TG but haven't seen that happen to their other aircraft types.

As I have said before, what I don't understand is why VS painted a A343 with the metallic paint while they already started receiving the A333 in the standard red colors(?)

VS and TG please bring back your nice metallic paint!!! Can you imagine the TG A380 's having that nice metallic purple? Wow...

A388
 
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Fly-K
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RE: Why No Chrome Colors For VS & TG

Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:04 pm

Regarding TG (and pardon my ignorance) it seems to me the difference is rather small. Only in bright sunlight it seems to be really visible. And to be honest, I wasn't even aware of it and just went through the TG photos in the database. From what I could see, it's mainly the newer 330s which don't have the metallic purple anymore, and probably some more recent repaints of 747s and 777s?
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A388
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RE: Why No Chrome Colors For VS & TG

Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:50 pm

Quoting Fly-K (Reply 13):
Regarding TG (and pardon my ignorance) it seems to me the difference is rather small. Only in bright sunlight it seems to be really visible. And to be honest, I wasn't even aware of it and just went through the TG photos in the database. From what I could see, it's mainly the newer 330s which don't have the metallic purple anymore, and probably some more recent repaints of 747s and 777s?

I can see what you mean but as you also say, the livery is totally different in good sunlight conditions. The purple used on the newer A333's and the other (repainted) aircraft is a lighter purple color and not giving that silver-ish touch which makes the livery so much more appealing in my opinion. Sometimes small differences can make for bigger impressions, in my opinion that is the case with TG. I do agree, in the end it's a matter of personal opinion.

A388
 
skipness1E
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RE: Why No Chrome Colors For VS & TG

Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:44 pm

Quoting na (Reply 11):
I also wondered why VS and TG abandoned the metallic paint, but havent any real info.

Virgin have not abandoned it, initial quality issues meant the two A333s missed it but all repaints since are metallic.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Why No Chrome Colors For VS & TG

Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:37 am

Quoting na (Reply 11):
I also wondered why VS and TG abandoned the metallic paint, but havent any real info.

Metallic paint on cars is normally an option and sometimes quite expensive. For example, metallic paint on a BMW 3-series in Switzerland is just over the equivalent of $1,000. On a VW Golf it's about $600.

A 747 requires far more paint than a car so presumably there's a significant additional cost when metallic paint is used. There may also be environmental issues as, if not mistaken, many airlines have recently started using less toxic water-based paint.
 
ghifty
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RE: Why No Chrome Colors For VS & TG

Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:57 am

Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn't metallic paint be... heavier? It has to have some substance in it to make it shinier, I presume.
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Fly-K
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RE: Why No Chrome Colors For VS & TG

Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:01 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 14):
I can see what you mean but as you also say, the livery is totally different in good sunlight conditions. The purple used on the newer A333's and the other (repainted) aircraft is a lighter purple color and not giving that silver-ish touch which makes the livery so much more appealing in my opinion. Sometimes small differences can make for bigger impressions, in my opinion that is the case with TG. I do agree, in the end it's a matter of personal opinion.

Agreed, the first version was stunning indeed but even the non-metallic purple is still quite nice, so it's not like for example going from silver to grey. If TG had had the non-metallic purple from the beginning, it probably would have still been regarded as a nice livery.
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
 
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Owleye
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RE: Why No Chrome Colors For VS & TG

Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:58 am

The first metallic coatings which appear on the market were expensive and the application, finishing, restoration/maintenance and stripping processes were difficult and demanded a number of primers and finishings: so it was an expensive process. Nowadays smarter coatings with metallic effects are less expensive and less harder to apply and to maintain. Though competition in the aviation has increased which results in a trend of modest and cost effective airline liveries, coating wise as well graphic design wise.

BASF for example is producing smart metallic look coatings: http://aerospace.basf.com/coatings-specialty-pigments/

[Edited 2012-02-15 01:59:58]
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: Why No Chrome Colors For VS & TG

Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:09 am

About time we had an illustration of the "quality issues" with the initial metallic red paint on the VS birds:


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I do miss the early 2000s scheme with the metallic fuselage - if only they could have just "facelifted" that version and applied the updated font / logo but kept the purple-bordered layout on the tail.
 
na
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RE: Why No Chrome Colors For VS & TG

Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:10 am

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 20):
I do miss the early 2000s scheme with the metallic fuselage - if only they could have just "facelifted" that version and applied the updated font / logo but kept the purple-bordered layout on the tail.

Amen!
 
A388
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RE: Why No Chrome Colors For VS & TG

Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:35 pm

Quoting Fly-K (Reply 18):
If TG had had the non-metallic purple from the beginning, it probably would have still been regarded as a nice livery.

The TG livery is nice, please don't get me wrong on this. In my opinion the metallic paint makes the livery just much nicer  
Quoting Owleye (Reply 19):
BASF for example is producing smart metallic look coatings: http://aerospace.basf.com/coatings-s...ents/

Thanks for the information Owleye. I hope this new metallic coating technique will convice TG to re-introduce the metallic coating again   

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 15):
Virgin have not abandoned it, initial quality issues meant the two A333s missed it but all repaints since are metallic.

I hope VS has indeed not abandoned the metallic coating. When will their first A333 and A346 roll out with the metallic coating?

A388