PM
Topic Author
Posts: 4820
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:29 am

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...me-with-st-aerospace-and-eads-efw/

"The A330P2F programme includes two versions – the A330-200P2F and the larger A330-300P2F."

"Entry-into-service for the first A330-300P2F is targeted for 2016."


Mr. Al Baker will be happy.  

[Edited 2012-02-14 20:29:58]
 
col
Posts: 1692
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:11 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:41 am

Timing could be perfect with available frames at the right price.
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 2231
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:44 am

Interesting, I guess this will have a negative effect on sales of the A330-200F. That said, i'm unconvinced that there is enough feed-stock of older A330s for many to be converted any time soon. I guess by 2016 there should be enough.

Quoting PM (Thread starter):
Mr. Al Baker will be happy.  

Thats what I was thinking. I wonder if Qatar Airways will be the launch customer?
First to fly the 787-9 with Air New Zealand and ZK-NZE (2014-10-09, NZ103)
 
PM
Topic Author
Posts: 4820
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:45 am

I wonder if this will complement the new-build programme or compete with it.

Interesting, too, that they are launching both models - the 200 and 300.

It's hard not to imagine that this could be a large and profitable project.
 
col
Posts: 1692
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:11 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:58 am

Did I read somewhere that they would not put the nose blister on and raise the front end?
 
User avatar
BreninTW
Posts: 1532
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:31 pm

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:07 am

Quoting col (Reply 4):
Did I read somewhere that they would not put the nose blister on and raise the front end?

That's mentioned in the thread on the Singapore Air Show. Instead of raising the nose, the conversion will be fitted with a powered loading system.

Is a powered loading system heavier than the additional metalwork to raise the nose? If so, I can see this being a negative for the program.
 
User avatar
airportugal310
Posts: 3208
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:09 am

Very good...according to most, that was the major thing hurting sales...problem 'fixed'  
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
Ozair
Posts: 1348
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:32 am

Good move by Airbus, I can see these being significantly more popular than the new build A332F.

Quoting col (Reply 4):
Did I read somewhere that they would not put the nose blister on and raise the front end?

They said in the press conference it would use a nose gear that could be raised and lowered after loading.

Be interesting to see whether the A333P2F becomes popular with the package carriers?
 
bomber996
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:21 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:37 am

Quoting Ozair (Reply 7):
Be interesting to see whether the A333P2F becomes popular with the package carriers?

Would this be comparable to FX's MD-10's? If not, what size freighter could it be comparable to?

Peace   
Two biggest lies in aviation... "I'm from the FAA and I'm here to help you." & "Traffic in sight."
 
airtran737
Posts: 3217
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:43 am

Quoting BreninTW (Reply 5):
That's mentioned in the thread on the Singapore Air Show. Instead of raising the nose, the conversion will be fitted with a powered loading system.

I would hate to be on that main deck when the GPU cuts out and the PDU's retract causing the freight to go screaming to the nose.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
FX1816
Posts: 296
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:02 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:27 am

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 8):
Quoting Ozair (Reply 7):Be interesting to see whether the A333P2F becomes popular with the package carriers?
Would this be comparable to FX's MD-10's? If not, what size freighter could it be comparable to?

Peace

Even if the A330P2F is similar to the MD10's, I think it may be a moot point for a while given the recent FDX order for 763F's.

FX1816
 
Burkhard
Posts: 1916
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:34 pm

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:21 am

Quoting FX1816 (Reply 10):
Even if the A330P2F is similar to the MD10's, I think it may be a moot point for a while given the recent FDX order for 763F's

Even the A332P2F is bigger than the 763F, the A333 is really a full step above it.
 
columba
Posts: 5043
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:39 am

Great news will this also include the A340 ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 2231
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:14 am

Quoting columba (Reply 12):
Great news will this also include the A340 ?

I wish it did, but I doubt that it does  . Other than the fuel consumption, I think the A340 would make a great freighter - lots of lifting power, long range, ETOPS free and very low second hand prices.   
First to fly the 787-9 with Air New Zealand and ZK-NZE (2014-10-09, NZ103)
 
jayeshrulz
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:36 pm

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:42 am

That is a great news. But i wonder will this lower the A330 F sales?
Keep flying, because the sky is no limit!
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 1529
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:45 am

Quoting zkojq (Reply 13):
I wish it did, but I doubt that it does . Other than the fuel consumption, I think the A340 would make a great freighter - lots of lifting power, long range, ETOPS free and very low second hand prices.

I has got good fuel consumption, not as good as the 777 but with the limited utilisation of freighters the capital costs have a higher weighting on the overall costs than in a pax airliner and vice versa for the fuel consumption, this should help the A340 vs 777.

Fred
Image
 
columba
Posts: 5043
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:50 am

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 15):
I has got good fuel consumption, not as good as the 777 but with the limited utilisation of freighters the capital costs have a higher weighting on the overall costs than in a pax airliner and vice versa for the fuel consumption, this should help the A340 vs 777.

I could see the A346 being a very good freighter replacing a lot of classic 747s.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
GCPET
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:43 pm

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:54 am

Good decision on Airbus's part! Will the nose gear have to be modified like the A330F and how will do this?

GCPET
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3069
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:06 am

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 9):
Quoting BreninTW (Reply 5):
That's mentioned in the thread on the Singapore Air Show. Instead of raising the nose, the conversion will be fitted with a powered loading system.

I would hate to be on that main deck when the GPU cuts out and the PDU's retract causing the freight to go screaming to the nose.

Good job pallets on roller systems are always securely locked in place then. Logical really as you wouldn't want a deck full of unsecur5ed pallets on live rollers when a plane rotates for take off.
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 2231
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:22 am

Quoting columba (Reply 16):
I could see the A346 being a very good freighter replacing a lot of classic 747s.

   and the A343P2F (along with the more expensive to purchase A333P2F) would make a great replacement for all the DC-8s and DC10s that are still flying around.

Quoting GCPET (Reply 17):
Good decision on Airbus's part! Will the nose gear have to be modified like the A330F and how will do this?

There was talk a couple of years ago about having a custom jack in the cargo hold that could easily be unloaded and (with the help of a ground power unit) be used to raise the nose so that the cabin floor is flat.
First to fly the 787-9 with Air New Zealand and ZK-NZE (2014-10-09, NZ103)
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 1529
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:29 am

Quoting jayeshrulz (Reply 14):
That is a great news. But i wonder will this lower the A330 F sales?

It could but it could have the opposite affect, cargo operators may start building a fleet of A330F now in the knowledge that the A330P2F will allow them to coninue fleet growth at a later time.

Fred
Image
 
JerseyFlyer
Posts: 839
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 7:24 pm

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:41 am

Quoting PM (Reply 3):
I wonder if this will complement the new-build programme or compete with it.

Complement I think. The gap in capability between the P2F and new build will be widened if and when Airbus offer 240t new builds with sharklets and weight savings etc - they are to decide on this re pax 330s later this year.

It will be interesting to see if retrofitted sharklets get to be offered as part of the P2F conversion, and if new build 333F's are eventually offered.
 
cmf
Posts: 3120
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:22 pm

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:58 am

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 9):
I would hate to be on that main deck when the GPU cuts out and the PDU's retract causing the freight to go screaming to the nose.

Maybe I'm too optimistic but I think they are smart enough to identify and cover this and many other things that are likely to go wrong from time to time.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 13241
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:05 pm

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 9):
I would hate to be on that main deck when the GPU cuts out and the PDU's retract causing the freight to go screaming to the nose.

Do you seriously think they haven't thought about that?  Wow!

What is the nose-down angle anyway? I suspect it's something less than 45 degrees.   
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
lotsamiles
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 1:22 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:21 pm

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 9):
I would hate to be on that main deck when the GPU cuts out and the PDU's retract causing the freight to go screaming to the nose.

The system would likely contain braking rollers which retard towards the door and prevent runaway movements. This already exists on the A300 and A310 freighters. The braking rollers are simple mechanical units and do not require electrical power.
 
r2rho
Posts: 2439
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:13 pm

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:32 pm

What a positive surprise, looks like all the pressure on Airbus from customers has finally paid off. It also confirms the rumored interest for -300F's, and not just -200F's as today.

With ST Aerospace doing the engineering, that will prevent too much resource drain from Airbus for the P2F program, which IMO was one of the reasons holding it back, as Airbus has too much on its hands right now. And with EFW, the conversion work still stays in house.

Without wanting to steer off topic, I now wonder if there's a chance that the A320P2F could be resurrected by a similar deal...?
 
mogandoCI
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:39 pm

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:37 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 2):
Interesting, I guess this will have a negative effect on sales of the A330-200F. That said, i'm unconvinced that there is enough feed-stock of older A330s for many to be converted any time soon. I guess by 2016 there should be enough.

Probably better for Airbus to cannibalize their own sales than have some 3rd party come in and do it for them.
 
User avatar
EPA001
Posts: 3782
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:13 pm

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:39 pm

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 21):
It will be interesting to see if retrofitted sharklets get to be offered as part of the P2F conversion, and if new build 333F's are eventually offered.

Interesting questions indeed. But it good to see Airbus finally deciding on this issue. The A330 will be around for quite a number of years to come. What a class act she is.  .
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 22937
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:48 pm

Based on comments and presentations over the years by Airbus, the A330P2F family should offer:


A332P2F - 22 96x125" ULDs
A333P2F - 26 96x125" ULDs

A332P2F Volume - 475m3
A333P2F Volume - 570m3

A332P2F Payload - ~65t
A333P2F Payload - ~60t

A332P2F Range - ~7400km
A333P2F Range - ~7400km (with an optional center fuel tank)
 
jdevora
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:41 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:28 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 25):
Without wanting to steer off topic, I now wonder if there's a chance that the A320P2F could be resurrected by a similar deal...?

My understanding was that the mayor problem was the unavailability of enough cheap A320s...

I don't think that this problem will change in the next few years
JD Evora
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:30 pm

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 20):
It could but it could have the opposite affect, cargo operators may start building a fleet of A330F now in the knowledge that the A330P2F will allow them to coninue fleet growth at a later time.

AV has some 330F in order for their cargo division, QT. I cna see AV converting some of its 332 in a couple of years after they get all the 787s and 350s, and keeping the fleet simple but still growing without having to hunt for second-hand airframes or waiting for brand new ones.

Quoting PM (Thread starter):
Entry-into-service for the first A330-300P2F is targeted for 2016."

How long could it take for the conversion of a 332??

Cheers

777jaah
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
joelyboy911
Posts: 119
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:45 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:06 pm

Why would an A343P2F not be launched? Is the cost to have it certified, etc, too great?

Surely it would cost nothing to offer the exact same process as the A333P2F on the four-engined variant?
Flown: NZ, NY, SJ, QF, UA, AC, EI, BE, TP, AF
 
lotsamiles
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 1:22 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:10 pm

Quoting jdevora (Reply 29):
My understanding was that the mayor problem was the unavailability of enough cheap A320s...

I don't think that this problem will change in the next few years

Getting a bit off topic, but...

Older generation A320's with CFM56-5A1 or V2500-A1 engines can be purchased for around $3M now. Of course, the more desirable configurations with CFM56-5B or V2500-A5 engines are still above $10M, clearly too much for a narrow body conversion.

If a cargo operator can make the older engines work in their system, it is hard to imagine that a $3M aircraft is too expensive for the program to be launched. I believe the A320P2F program will come back in the not too distant future, likely in a different business partnership. Regardless, the 737-300/400 converted freighter is going to be touch competition for the A320P2F. 737 classics are cheap to buy (many are under $2M), and there is a choice in programs to keep the conversion price in check.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 22937
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:11 pm

Quoting lotsamiles (Reply 32):
If a cargo operator can make the older engines work in their system, it is hard to imagine that a $3M aircraft is too expensive for the program to be launched.

I don't believe it is the engines as much as the low TOWs of the A320-100s that make these models undesirable for conversion.
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3069
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:21 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 33):
I don't believe it is the engines as much as the low TOWs of the A320-100s that make these models undesirable for conversion.

I don't believe that there is an A320-100 still in existence, only 21 built and all now scrapped.
 
User avatar
breiz
Posts: 1416
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:12 pm

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:23 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 34):
I don't believe that there is an A320-100 still in existence, only 21 built and all now scrapped.


Actually A320 MSN 0001 is still flying as test-bed for Airbus.
 
neutronstar73
Posts: 659
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:57 pm

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:34 pm

Quoting PM (Thread starter):
"Entry-into-service for the first A330-300P2F is targeted for 2016."

And the A330F is dead in the water as soon as this bird is released. And JL is really smoking something good when he believes this announcement will have no negative effect on the A330F. Operators who have old A330s will not even think about buying new when they can convert their old stuff, and probably cheaper, too.

Good move on Airbus's part; maybe they see the handwriting on the wall for the A330F.

[Edited 2012-02-15 07:38:01]
 
B777LRF
Posts: 1423
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:45 pm

One wonders if there are a bunch of guys in Memphis burning the midnight oil trying to find a way to wiggle out of a 767F order ....
From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
 
packsonflight
Posts: 324
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:55 pm

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:46 pm

Quoting jdevora (Reply 29):
My understanding was that the mayor problem was the unavailability of enough cheap A320s...

That was the official word, but probably the 320 program was to complicated with 4 parties involved, or Airbus for some reason did not want to work with the Russians.

I would not be surprised that the 320 p2f program would be launched shortly, and the setup would be very similar to this new 330 program
 
lotsamiles
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 1:22 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:48 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 33):
I don't believe it is the engines as much as the low TOWs of the A320-100s that make these models undesirable for conversion.

Yes that it true about the -100's. However, there are some affordable -200's with the -5A3's that have decent weights. Right now a lot of -200's are being scrapped as there is no other option for them. Lease rates are very low and there is too much competition from newer A320's. Perhaps a P2F can be a good option for some of those early -200's.
 
neutronstar73
Posts: 659
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:57 pm

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:54 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 37):

Hmm...don't think so. I think if anyone could've made Airbus do this earlier, it's FedEx. I would believe they are sleeping pretty well tonight.
 
Daysleeper
Posts: 565
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:33 pm

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:56 pm

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 36):
And the A330F is dead in the water as soon as this bird is released. And JL is really smoking something good when he believes this announcement will have no negative effect on the A330F. Operators who have old A330s will not even think about buying new when they can convert their old stuff, and probably cheaper, too.

Good move on Airbus's part; maybe they see the handwriting on the wall for the A330F.

Does the same apply to the 767 then? It’s had a similar conversion available for a few years now.
 
B777LRF
Posts: 1423
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:09 pm

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 40):
Hmm...don't think so. I think if anyone could've made Airbus do this earlier, it's FedEx. I would believe they are sleeping pretty well tonight.

I don't quite agree. If you're looking for a DC10 replacement, the 767F is a pretty poor choice. Well, the 767F is a poor choice regardless, but when there's no other options needs be and all that.

Neither of us know how much FX tried to persuade Airbus to launch a P2F program for the A330, if at all. And if they did, perhaps Airbus decided they were going to take their time on the decision, as they did when Al Baker (once again) threw his toys out of the cot, and not allow themselves to be forced into doing something they hadn't thought all the way through. They did have an A330F to protect, but has apparently had a bit of a rethink.

Bottom line is that we don't know. But the P2F will be vastly more capable than the 767F, but in terms of payload but even more so in terms of volume.

Wouldn't be surprised if FX announced an order for more 777F's in return for a cancellation of the 767F, and invited Johnny Leahy over for a cup of coffee and a little chat about A330s. But that's just pure speculation, utterly unfounded in anything but prejudice towards the 767F*, and a strong feeling the A333P2F looks like it's going to be one hell of a package carrier.

* Our lot operates the 767F, and it's a vile piece of brown smelly bits. It's just as bad as the 777F is good, and that's quite telling.
From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
 
neutronstar73
Posts: 659
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:57 pm

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:09 pm

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 41):

I'm afraid we're not talking about the 767. We're talking about the A330. I believe there is a thread about the 767 freighter elsewhere on this site and comparisons to the A300 and A330. Perhaps the answer to this question resides there.  

Either way, you're comparing apples to space launch vehicles. 2 different companies, with 2 different aircraft at two different points in time in their service lives. And two wholly different market and political motivations as to why these aircraft were built.
 
 
User avatar
seabosdca
Posts: 4920
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:22 pm

I don't think the 767 will be enough for FX. I think they will need either A330P2Fs or 777-200BCFs. The A330-300P2F seems like an ideal MD-10 replacement.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 28):
A333P2F Range - ~7400km (with an optional center fuel tank)

Center fuel tank? If they are ready to fit a center fuel tank to A330-300P2Fs, will it be coming to A330-300 passenger versions as well?

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 42):

* Our lot operates the 767F, and it's a vile piece of brown smelly bits. It's just as bad as the 777F is good, and that's quite telling.

Please elaborate. Sure it doesn't have the 777's payload range, but it seems to do its job pretty well for a lot of operators.

[Edited 2012-02-15 08:24:06]
 
Flaps
Posts: 1170
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2000 1:11 pm

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:25 pm

Can't say I'm a big fan of the powered floor idea. Not that I feel that it wouldn't work, I'm sure that it will but it definitely adds to the potential for operational headaches. I spent many, many years in the air cargo business and if something can go wrong, believe me it will. The simpler the better. From a maintenance standpoint I can't speculate on whether gear modifications or the powered floor would be the bigger headache. From an operational standpoint all I can see is a logistical nightmare when the floor goes tech and there is insufficient manpower available to push uphill.
 
FX1816
Posts: 296
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:02 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:22 pm

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 11):
Quoting FX1816 (Reply 10):Even if the A330P2F is similar to the MD10's, I think it may be a moot point for a while given the recent FDX order for 763F's
Even the A332P2F is bigger than the 763F, the A333 is really a full step above it.

True but I'm not so sure that FDX will bite on the A333P2F. It seems as though they might be going through with a fleet of 757's, 767's and 777's. Yes the MD11's and the A306's will still be around for quite a while but it just seems as though they are in that mood right now.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 42):
Wouldn't be surprised if FX announced an order for more 777F's in return for a cancellation of the 767F, and invited Johnny Leahy over for a cup of coffee and a little chat about A330s.

I highly doubt it. FDX is going through with the 763 like it or not. Obviously UPS has done just fine with the aircraft. I don't see the A330 with FDX for quite a long time. One of the biggest issues they would have would be with parking at MEM alone. That place is tight taking and MD10 through there let alone an MD11, with a wing span nearly 30 ft longer, the A330 would be a night mare at MEM.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 42):
* Our lot operates the 767F, and it's a vile piece of brown smelly bits. It's just as bad as the 777F is good, and that's quite telling.

I would call this a pretty childish line.

FX1816
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 22937
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:08 pm

FX would have known Airbus' plans for the A330P2F and no doubt took them into account when they placed their 767 freighter order. So I'm 110% confident, B77LRF, that FX is not going to cancel their 767 order.

That being said, FX didn't place a 75-frame 767 order, which is what they would have needed to do to replace their MD-10-10F and MD-10-30F fleets. So I see no reason at this time to conclude that the A330 freighter - new or converted - is something that will never fly in FX colors. It's still too early to make that claim with any authority.




Quoting seabosdca (Reply 44):
Center fuel tank? If they are ready to fit a center fuel tank to A330-300P2Fs, will it be coming to A330-300 passenger versions as well?

Honestly, I don't know. The A330-300 can tank about 50,000 less liters than the A330-200 and A330-200F, so the only way an A333P2F can take a similar payload weight the same distance as an A332(P2)F is if it has a center tank and there has been at least one Airbus freighter executive mentioning a center tank option, though it is possible they were misquoted or misrepresented by the publication printing the statement.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 13241
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:31 pm

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 36):
And the A330F is dead in the water as soon as this bird is released.



Well it's released now and Airbus has only just booked additional A330F orders from an existing A330 operator.   

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 36):
Good move on Airbus's part



It certainly is.   

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 36):
maybe they see the handwriting on the wall for the A330F.



Except there is none.   

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 43):
I'm afraid we're not talking about the 767. We're talking about the A330.



Indeed, but it's a perfectly valid question as the 767 is the closest direct competitor to the A330F and is in the same position with respect to being available as new build or conversion. So if the availability of the A330P2F is going to leave the A330F "dead in the water" (in your opinion) why doesn't the same apply to the 767?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
User avatar
N328KF
Posts: 5807
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 3:50 am

RE: Airbus Launch A330P2F

Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:45 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 26):
Probably better for Airbus to cannibalize their own sales than have some 3rd party come in and do it for them.

This is an important lesson that Apple has taught the world. Obsolete your own product before someone else does. Apple didn't invent the concept, but they perfected it.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt