nyc2tlv
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LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:51 pm

 
jetblast
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:57 pm

Surely they can't be serious?
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lhr380
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:00 pm

Quoting NYC2TLV (Thread starter):

Im very confused with what he has written??
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
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mayor
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:03 pm

I don't get it.....first he says that the reason they can't join is because of the size of the fleet and the inability to compensate passengers in delays, etc. because of that (that makes no sense, either) and then he says it's "because we're Jewish", which makes even less sense.
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NUAir
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:11 pm

ughh Religion, politics and airline alliances all in one sentence.

Airliners is going to need to call the fire department to prevent this flame war.
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
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jetjack74
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Quoting jetblast (Reply 1):
Surely they can't be serious?

They are serious, and don't call them Shirley!
Made from jets!
 
mogandoCI
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:20 pm

Quoting NYC2TLV (Thread starter):
Nothing about not having a real hub in TLV.

Even if they *have* a real hub at TLV, who would want to transit there and go through all that security hassle for no reason ?
 
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seabosdca
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:23 pm

  

I'd think the reason they can't join an alliance is because they don't have much to offer the alliance, not because "they're Jews." Very strange statement.
 
jetblast
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:23 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 6):

Well, apparently, by their own logic I can't fly El Al since I am not Jewish.
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LJ
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:52 pm

The only alliance where LY will never get into is probably Skyteam, though it would be great thing to have Saudia and El Al in one alliance (well they also have both China Airlines and China Southern and China Eastern)
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:55 pm

Was it Jackie Mason who said "You don't have to be Jewish to be Jewish" ?
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IrishAyes
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:56 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 9):
The only alliance where LY will never get into is probably Skyteam, though it would be great thing to have Saudia and El Al in one alliance (well they also have both China Airlines and China Southern and China Eastern)

Ha. Wishful thinking. There is no feasible way two airlines can co-exist in the same alliance if one of them is headquartered/based on a country that doesn't even acknowledge the existence of the other (Saudi Arabia, like a few other Islamic nations, does not recognize Israel as an official nation).

Quoting NUAir (Reply 4):
ughh Religion, politics and airline alliances all in one sentence.

LOL. And you can barely even hope that two of these facets will not conflict each other in these decisions!
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
C010T3
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:06 pm

They can't, because they are Israeli, not because they are Jewish.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:20 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 11):
There is no feasible way two airlines can co-exist in the same alliance if one of them is headquartered/based on a country that doesn't even acknowledge the existence of the other

You mean like the way that Skyteam has both CZ and CI even though the PRC don't recognise Taiwan ?
 
trex8
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:23 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 11):
Ha. Wishful thinking. There is no feasible way two airlines can co-exist in the same alliance if one of them is headquartered/based on a country that doesn't even acknowledge the existence of the other (Saudi Arabia, like a few other Islamic nations, does not recognize Israel as an official nation).

As LJ pointed out that didn't stop a Taiwanese carrier joining 2 mainland Chinese carriers and they are technically still in a civil war!
 
SASMD82
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:29 pm

I don't understand this......at school we learn that all people are equal......Does that mean that this guy did not go to school??

Quoting LJ (Reply 9):
The only alliance where LY will never get into is probably Skyteam, though it would be great thing to have Saudia and El Al in one alliance (well they also have both China Airlines and China Southern and China Eastern)

How about Star Alliance (EgyptAir) and OneWorld (Royal Jordanian)? BTW. I think Saudia is not an official member according to the SkyTeam website.
 
milemaster
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:37 pm

I thought that LY was for all intents and purposes effectively in Oneworld. I've flown DFW-MAD-TLV TLV-LHR-DFW seamlessly with AA/BA/LY and earn full AAdvantage across with thru ticketing and baggage.
 
LIPZ
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:51 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 9):
The only alliance where LY will never get into is probably Skyteam, though it would be great thing to have Saudia and El Al in one alliance (well they also have both China Airlines and China Southern and China Eastern)

Both MEA and Saudi should join SkyTeam this year.......definitely not the right Alliance for El Al.

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 15):
How about Star Alliance (EgyptAir) and OneWorld (Royal Jordanian)? BTW. I think Saudia is not an official member according to the SkyTeam website.

Well, Egypt and Jordan are the only Arab countries with a "friendly" relationship with Israel.
 
LJ
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:56 pm

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 15):

How about Star Alliance (EgyptAir) and OneWorld (Royal Jordanian)? BTW. I think Saudia is not an official member according to the SkyTeam website.

You're correct SV still isn't a Skyteam member officially, but are scheduled to become a member this year. BTW how are Lebanon - Israel relations these days (as MEA is also scheduled to join in 2012)?

BTW At least Egypt and Jordan have diplomatic relations with Israel..
 
LIPZ
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:05 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 19):
BTW how are Lebanon - Israel relations these days (as MEA is also scheduled to join in 2012)?

Lebanon - Israel is never an easy relation....probably the most difficult between Israel and another country.
 
JU068
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:13 pm

Why not Star Alliance? I know it's saturated already but it's the only one that could work. They could feed Turkish Airlines' and EgyptAir's hubs since obviously TLV can never compete with those two.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:38 pm

Quoting trex8 (Reply 14):
As LJ pointed out that didn't stop a Taiwanese carrier joining 2 mainland Chinese carriers and they are technically still in a civil war!

Yes, but the PRC/Taiwan debacle is purely a political fight over whether Taiwan is really independent or not. China says its their territory, Taiwan says they're free. Same with Tibet; it wants freedom, China says its their territory too.

Regardless, at the end of the day, China will recognize a Taiwanese citizen and freely let them into their country, and vice versa.

That's not the same issue with Israel and other Middle Eastern countries, particularly the very strict Islamic ones such as Egypt, the KSA, Iran, Syria etc. You are not permitted to enter into some of those nations if your passport bears a stamp from Israel.

Not to mention, does the strife between the PRC and Taiwan even remotely resemble the relationships between Israel and most Middle Eastern nations over the decades? As someone pointed out, relationships are pretty much only diplomatic with a small handful of ME countries.

What makes that situation even MORE tangled are the fact that Politics AND Religion are involved there.

Quoting milemaster (Reply 17):
I thought that LY was for all intents and purposes effectively in Oneworld. I've flown DFW-MAD-TLV TLV-LHR-DFW seamlessly with AA/BA/LY and earn full AAdvantage across with thru ticketing and baggage.

Funny you mention that. A lot of people I know who have been traveling to Israel recently (I can think of at least 10) seem to route through MAD on IB.

Fares must be competitive.
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Kiwinlondon
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:18 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 22):
That's not the same issue with Israel and other Middle Eastern countries, particularly the very strict Islamic ones such as Egypt, the KSA, Iran, Syria etc. You are not permitted to enter into some of those nations if your passport bears a stamp from Israel.

Off topic. You can enter Egypt with an Israeli stamp in your passport legally. Whether the border agent will let you in.....that may be a different story!!

Kiwinlondon
 
khpn
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:20 pm

Looks like their idea of starting their own alliance didnt work out so well LOL
  
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racko
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:31 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 21):
Why not Star Alliance?

I'm guessing LH wouldn't like the "internal" competition, they're doing pretty well in the Israeli market.
 
JU068
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:35 pm

Quoting racko (Reply 26):

Maybe something in the style of Adria and Croatia, Star Alliance member but only to feed Lufthansa's network,
 
windshear
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:35 pm

Like the red star of David not being accepted in the red cross and crescent union, I think this is true. Because it's Israel they are not accepted, so that's what he is saying... In other words...

Boaz.
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Type-Rated
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:38 pm

I think he may have been poking fun at the fact that they are Jewish and the joke went nowhere/came out wrong. Kinda like Joan Rivers always makes fun of the fact that she's Jewish.
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turjo101
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:38 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 22):
That's not the same issue with Israel and other Middle Eastern countries, particularly the very strict Islamic ones such as Egypt, the KSA, Iran, Syria etc. You are not permitted to enter into some of those nations if your passport bears a stamp from Israel.

News bulletins with such stupidity should be avoided simply because: a) it's bound to offend someone, b) inaccuracies like the one above is plentiful.

1) Egypt has not been in a state of war with Israel since 1982, and has had diplomatic relations since then, and therefore Israelis and those with Israeli stamps on their passport can go in.

2) KSA and Iran don't bar people with Israeli stamps but people with Israeli passports, as they refuse to recognize the State of Israel, and still call that area Palestine...

3) Syria is a strict Islamic country ?!? ...its run by a fascist Arab nationalist family, just like Saddam Hussein...they don't give a rat's a** about religion...as long as they get to stay in power. Their beef with Israel has to do with "still being in a state of war since 1973, and the continuous occupation of the Golan Heights since then"...that is why they wont let people in with Israeli stamps on their passport...

Its not impossible for me to have some inaccuracy in the 3 points I mentioned...but none of this has anything to do with aviation, so we should avoid this all together.
 
AR385
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:51 pm

The article is so poorly written that I believe basing any intelligent discussion on it is just a waste of time. Maybe if someone could post a different piece of news on same situation we could have something different develop from it?
 
ORDJOE
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:02 pm

They do have a lot of baggage, no flights on Saturday, TLV being an aweful airport to connect, limited route network, bad relations with the FAA which limit expansion or codesharing with US carriers. Also what do they bring to the table, OW has RJ right next door, *A has TK and Egypt air right there, ST will have SV and MEA soon (will say RB seems like a perfect candidate for ST)

I think it is more of an issue that area is covered extremely well versus the Jewishness
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:03 pm

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 30):
News bulletins with such stupidity should be avoided simply because: a) it's bound to offend someone, b) inaccuracies like the one above is plentiful.

Not sure if this is in reference to the the article itself or to what I posted, but I apologize if my post came off as offensive.

I have friends of multiple faith backgrounds and by no means meant to offend anyone. I've heard versions from both sides of the fence, and so the lines become blurred in reference to what the policy is....such as....

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 30):
2) KSA and Iran don't bar people with Israeli stamps but people with Israeli passports, as they refuse to recognize the State of Israel, and still call that area Palestine...

...this one. I was previously informed that no matter what passport you held, or your nationality, you are not allowed into the KSA or Iran with an Israeli passport stamp, hence why you have option of receiving it on a separate piece of paper to put into your passport when one travels to Israel. Sorry if I was misinformed.

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 30):
Its not impossible for me to have some inaccuracy in the 3 points I mentioned...but none of this has anything to do with aviation, so we should avoid this all together.

You're 100% correct. But I think that it isn't necessarily overstepping boundaries to at least acknowledge that there are challenges for El Al, or any other Israeli carriers, to face in terms of joining a global alliance based on political and religious tension. Clearly, you know it isn't a hush-hush topic when the CEO himself is stating that himself, but then again, that also brings into question the whole premise of this article, which is pretty dodgy to begin with. So, I uphold your overall viewpoint here.

Again, sorry if I offended anyone....
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mogandoCI
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:10 pm

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 31):
They do have a lot of baggage, no flights on Saturday, TLV being an aweful airport to connect, limited route network, bad relations with the FAA which limit expansion or codesharing with US carriers. Also what do they bring to the table, OW has RJ right next door, *A has TK and Egypt air right there, ST will have SV and MEA soon (will say RB seems like a perfect candidate for ST)

And there's a non-trivial chance that Star might hit the jackpot by bringing QR on board.
 
ghifty
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:15 pm

Do they literally or metaphorically mean "we're Jews"? What a strange comment..
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turjo101
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:18 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 32):
Again, sorry if I offended anyone....

Don't be sorry, Its not what you said, but overall possibility of this article turning a.net into a forum for bashing other ethnicity.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 32):

...this one. I was previously informed that no matter what passport you held, or your nationality, you are not allowed into the KSA or Iran with an Israeli passport stamp, hence why you have option of receiving it on a separate piece of paper to put into your passport when one travels to Israel. Sorry if I was misinformed.

The reasons for me to challenge this is the Jewish population of Iran (there are 50 000+), some of whom go to Israel for religious pilgrimages, and other ceremonies and then return home, usually flying RJ, TK and MS. Also my cousin's husband who used to visit Israel for religious reasons, and simultaneously worked for Lockheed in KSA...not sure what formalities he had to go through to make this happen...but will find out.
 
ftornik
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:25 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 7):
I'd think the reason they can't join an alliance is because they don't have much to offer the alliance, not because "they're Jews." Very strange statement.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Quite simply LY doesn't have much to offer an alliance. In many ways Israel is like Jamaica, they're both great places to visit, but relatively few people change planes there.
 
justbala
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:34 pm

Quoting Kiwinlondon (Reply 23):

There is no problem entering Egypt with an Israeli visa.Infact Egypt and Israel have a land border at Taba where u can actually drive across from one country to another.

If I remember correct, Israeli citizens dont need a visa to go to Sinai.

BTW this statement reminds me of all the hopeless politicos, who use religion as the last ditch measure to prop up a failing campaign!!  
Flown IC , 9W , SQ , SV , GF , S2 , LX , IT , LH , OS , DN , AC , MH , 6E , MI , AA , TG , EK , QR , SG , TK , KW, UA ,
 
IAD380
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:47 pm

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 12):
They can't, because they are Israeli, not because they are Jewish.



Exactly! The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is the primary reason why El Al can't joint an alliance. Despite its central geographic location, TLV cannot be a hub for any alliance until there is a regional peace settlement. Ironically, I doubt that IR or PK could join an airline alliance in the current global political environment either. Even if the Middle East conflict was peacefully resolved, El Al probably couldn't join an alliance until it modernizes its antiquated fleet, improves its mediocre service, and resolves its CAT II status in the United States. Although there are many reasons why LY can't join an alliance at the present time, the fact that its owners are Jewish is not one of those reasons.
 
justbala
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:50 pm

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 35):
Also my cousin's husband who used to visit Israel for religious reasons, and simultaneously worked for Lockheed in KSA...not sure what formalities he had to go through to make this happen...but will find out.

India issues a "Israel-only" passport in addition to your regular passport. You can use that for your visits to Israel and the regular one for other countries.

Till a few years back, Israeli visa used to be stapled on and could be removed after travel,

Citizens of countries that have dual citizenship can avoid this problem easily.
Flown IC , 9W , SQ , SV , GF , S2 , LX , IT , LH , OS , DN , AC , MH , 6E , MI , AA , TG , EK , QR , SG , TK , KW, UA ,
 
SEA
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:12 am

Quoting ftornik (Reply 35):
Quite simply LY doesn't have much to offer an alliance. In many ways Israel is like Jamaica, they're both great places to visit, but relatively few people change planes there.

This. I'm not sure why you'd choose TLV over an airport like IST or DXB.
 
chepos
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:11 am

Let's not forget, who in their right mind would want to fly on EL AL if they are going on to another destination other than Israel. The security questioning/hassles that airline puts you through alone would turn people off. I am sure the existing alliances are more than happy with the current members in the region, LY just does not bring anything new to the table.

Regards,

Chepos
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ilyag
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:05 am

The statement is poorly phrased, but it is correct - LY cannot join an alliance mostly because of politics, nothing else. If alliances look for valuable carriers, what RJ is doing in OW and how EgyptAir got into Star? That said, LY does seem to be strongly connected to OW, which is probably good enough for attracting customers. Star is very strong in TLV on its own, SkyTeam less so, but still offers several options.
 
ikramerica
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:19 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 12):
They can't, because they are Israeli, not because they are Jewish.

Jewish Israelis do not differentiate between the two. Just as Muslims think of themselves as one people and thus claim that if someone from a particular nation is scrutinized due to their nationality, it's an anti-Muslim thing.

But either way, I think he is correct. LY would not be accepted because too many members of any alliance would block the application.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 29):
The article is so poorly written that I believe basing any intelligent discussion on it is just a waste of time. Maybe if someone could post a different piece of news on same situation we could have something different develop from it?

True. What I gathered from the mess was that a lot was missing.

The bill in question was probably put forward in the Kinesett partly to promote membership alliance, or as an excuse, and the LY guy was responding to this assertion by saying "you can pass all the bills you want compensating passengers for delays, etc., but it won't help because we are airline non-grata for other reasons anyway. It won't help." The airlines size quote was not in response to membership in an alliance, but in response to why it's hard to re-accommodate pax during irops. He's making excuses as to why the problems persists with Israeli airlines but maybe not with bigger airlines. Load of crap, but that's another story.

The article just leaves out the parts that would make it more clear.
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q120
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:29 am

Talk about a poorly written description of whatever the hell that article is even trying to talk about.
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shamrock604
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:25 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 42):
But either way, I think he is correct. LY would not be accepted because too many members of any alliance would block the application.

It just sounds like more persecution complex to me - LY could have easily joined Oneworld in the founding days, and I doubt anyone would have batted an eyelid. OK, RJ is there now - but would they REALLY block LY?

And even if it was THAT contentious - certain carriers within the alliance could simply avoid codesharing with each other.

Aer Lingus did not codeshare with everyone when it was in Oneworld - even though there was demand say for example from DUB to SYD, or HKG. Nothing was ever really penned with Qantas or Cathay. And there are plenty of such examples throughout the alliances.
 
jmc1975
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:53 am

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 6):
Even if they *have* a real hub at TLV, who would want to transit there and go through all that security hassle for no reason ?

Have you ever been there? It's less hassle than in the US...very straightforward and common-sense.
.......
 
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shamrock604
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:11 am

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 45):
Have you ever been there? It's less hassle than in the US...very straightforward and common-sense.

And it's a really nice airport as well...... would be great as a transfer point.
 
abrelosojos
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:28 am

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 28):
2) KSA and Iran don't bar people with Israeli stamps but people with Israeli passports, as they refuse to recognize the State of Israel, and still call that area Palestine...

= This is incorrect. You cannot enter KSA (or most of the Arab world) with ANY hint of having been to Israel. I was even denied entry on a EK flight at CDG transiting DXB to go to SIN. The only time in my life I have been offloaded.

Saludos,
A.
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mayor
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RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:50 am

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 44):

Aer Lingus did not codeshare with everyone when it was in Oneworld

Before that, they were in the Atlantic Excellence Alliance with DL, Austrian, Swissair, etc. Did they codeshare with anyone else at that time?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
kiwiandrew

RE: LY CEO: Can't Join Alliance Because We're Jewish

Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:55 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 48):
Before that, they were in the Atlantic Excellence Alliance with DL, Austrian, Swissair, etc.

Are you sure aboout that? I don't remember them being involved in that at all. From what I remember it was DL OS SR and SN.