shadez
Topic Author
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Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:55 pm

Routes not announced/published yet, but DEN is now listed on NK's website as a destination.
 
bjorn14
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RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:03 pm

Hmmm....maybe to FLL, DFW, AZA
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
MountainFlyer
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RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:06 pm

...as if Denver needed even lower fares.

[Edited 2012-02-16 08:07:37]
SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
 
Coronado990
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RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:08 pm

Where in heck would they go from DEN? This airport is already very well covered between UA/F9/WN. How many more flights can this city hold to LAS, DFW or ORD? I guess Florida or KIWA/AZA are options. Interesting indeed.
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
Italianflyer
Posts: 531
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RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:10 pm

Queue up the 'when will NK merge with F9' speculation   

Seriously though, havent they been in and out of DEN like 20 times in their history??
 
Beechtobus
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RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:16 pm

Well, it was once that they were in before from dtw and fll. My bets on Dfw and aza
 
point2point
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Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:54 pm

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:20 pm

Actually, NK wants to hub in DEN, like every other airline there is.

They've even got the city to agree to build them a new Concourse D just for them.

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 2):
...as if Denver needed even lower fares.

Well....... I guess one can never too rich, too thin, or have too many low airfares.....

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 4):
Seriously though, havent they been in and out of DEN like 20 times in their history??

Yep.......

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 4):
Queue up the 'when will NK merge with F9' speculation

Oh yes.......

......................................................................................................

What is it about this thread that's going to bring out the snark in everyone here?


 
 
MaverickM11
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Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:23 pm

LAS, DFW, TPA, FLL, ORD
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:27 pm

Okay, really? They have just skipped all over NC. I mean, can they looking into GSO, ILM, AVL, EWN? Any of them? I mean, they can do something!!!!!!
Aiming High and going far..
 
joeljack
Posts: 505
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:38 pm

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:38 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 6):
Actually, NK wants to hub in DEN, like every other airline there is.

They've even got the city to agree to build them a new Concourse D just for them.

Is it April Fools Day??? Last I checked it was February 16th!! This is the craziest thing I've heard in a very long time if true.

If Spirit comes to DEN with big operations...somebody will go away, most likely Frontier and there will be plenty of extra gate space at the the airport.
 
point2point
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RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:41 pm

Quoting joeljack (Reply 9):
Is it April Fools Day??? Last I checked it was February 16th!! This is the craziest thing I've heard in a very long time if true.

It's suppose to be the craziest thing that anyone has heard - written just for that

Quoting point2point (Reply 6):
What is it about this thread that's going to bring out the snark in everyone here?


And I also hear that the route planners at G4 are sitting around a table right now trying to figuring out how to get into DEN to get a piece of the action as well.....

 



[Edited 2012-02-16 08:47:26]
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15448
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:41 pm

Quoting Erj170 (Reply 8):
I mean, can they looking into GSO, ILM, AVL, EWN? Any of them? I mean, they can do something!!!!!!

What among NK's recent adds would lead you to believe they have any interest in any of those cities?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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SANFan
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RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:50 pm

I don't think that DEN will be any sizeable operation at all. Maybe a couple of flights to DFW -- since the Texas city does seem to be a focus operation for Spirit -- and perhaps one other city and I say that's it. I wouldn't expect Florida (since NK has so far not connected too many of its new western stations with the Sunshine state), and IMO, the PHX-area and Vegas would just be too stupid a move even for Spirit!

So far, almost every new station that is opened by Spirit seems to draw out the local folks here on A.net to claim that THEIR new city will be a hub, focus city, or base. When the dust settles, that will of course not be the case.

Big operation at DEN? I really doubt it. But with their expansion and growth in full swing, how can Spirit avoid Denver entirely? A handful of flights to 1, 2, or 3 cities. That's my call.

bb

[Edited 2012-02-16 08:52:00]
 
MAV88
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RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:20 pm

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 2):
...as if Denver needed even lower fares.

I am sure the people in the Denver area are happy.


I amazes me how DEN is essentially a hub, or close to a hub type operation for 3 carriers, despite not being in the top 10 metro areas in the U.S. I realize geographically is is in a great location, but for 3 carriers to have such large ops there is amazing.
 
EricR
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RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:24 pm

Quoting MAV88 (Reply 13):
Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 2):
...as if Denver needed even lower fares.

I am sure the people in the Denver area are happy.


I amazes me how DEN is essentially a hub, or close to a hub type operation for 3 carriers, despite not being in the top 10 metro areas in the U.S. I realize geographically is is in a great location, but for 3 carriers to have such large ops there is amazing.



Yes, that aspect is. However, based on F9's performance, I think we can deduce that 3 hub carriers at DEN is not sustainable.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:26 pm

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 3):
Where in heck would they go from DEN? This airport is already very well covered between UA/F9/WN. How many more flights can this city hold to LAS, DFW or ORD? I guess Florida or KIWA/AZA are options. Interesting indeed.

They'll stimulate demand from people wanting ULCC service but they won't do anything to the higher end traffic that UA wants to pull.
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24720
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RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:27 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 12):
I don't think that DEN will be any sizeable operation at all. Maybe a couple of flights to DFW -- since the Texas city does seem to be a focus operation for Spirit -- and perhaps one other city and I say that's it.

It will be five routes - FLL, LAS, ORD, DFW and TPA.
a.
 
stburke
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:11 pm

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:29 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 14):
Yes, that aspect is. However, based on F9's performance, I think we can deduce that 3 hub carriers at DEN is not sustainable.

Never has been. Look at the old Frontier, UA and CO back at Stapleton.
 
gustywinds
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:41 pm

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:31 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 14):
Yes, that aspect is. However, based on F9's performance, I think we can deduce that 3 hub carriers at DEN is not sustainable.

Have you seen F9's performance for DEN? Have you seen WN's performance for DEN? have you seen UA's performance for DEN? No, so you can't judge F9's viability in DEN because of the YX issues in MKE. MKE is being sorted out. We should get a clear picture of F9's performance once MKE isn't dragging down the overall F9 branded operation.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 3340
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RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:33 pm

Im gonna guess LAS first and DFW as a second guess

DEN is amazing if this comes true Frontier and UA will hate to see anither airline to trash yields and even more low last minute fares
 
Beechtobus
Posts: 372
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RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:35 pm

Quoting maverick and mah4546:

You both mentioned the same 5 routes, where did you guys see that?
 
EricR
Posts: 1223
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:15 pm

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:37 pm

Quoting gustywinds (Reply 18):
Have you seen F9's performance for DEN? Have you seen WN's performance for DEN? have you seen UA's performance for DEN? No, so you can't judge F9's viability in DEN because of the YX issues in MKE. MKE is being sorted out. We should get a clear picture of F9's performance once MKE isn't dragging down the overall F9 branded operation.

Nope, and I don't need to. Successful hubs are heavily dependent on strong O&D. A market the size of DEN does not have the O&D necessary to support three hub carriers...."plane" and simple.
 
gustywinds
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:41 pm

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:46 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 21):
Nope, and I don't need to. Successful hubs are heavily dependent on strong O&D. A market the size of DEN does not have the O&D necessary to support three hub carriers...."plane" and simple.

I think you do need to if you are going to eliminate F9 from the 3 hub DEN. I could just as easily say WN is toast or UA will leave DEN, but I have no facts to back that up. I do know that WN is not raising their fares by $10 in DEN although they are doing that in the rest of their system. Does that say WN is not doing well in DEN?
 
MAV88
Posts: 133
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 12:30 pm

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:50 pm

Quoting gustywinds (Reply 22):
Quoting EricR (Reply 21):
Nope, and I don't need to. Successful hubs are heavily dependent on strong O&D. A market the size of DEN does not have the O&D necessary to support three hub carriers...."plane" and simple.

I think you do need to if you are going to eliminate F9 from the 3 hub DEN. I could just as easily say WN is toast or UA will leave DEN, but I have no facts to back that up. I do know that WN is not raising their fares by $10 in DEN although they are doing that in the rest of their system. Does that say WN is not doing well in DEN?

His point that DEN does not have a large O&D base that you would expect from an airport with 3 hub operations is true though.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:58 pm

Quoting gustywinds (Reply 22):
Does that say WN is not doing well in DEN?

I think it's fairly reasonable to say that if F9 is losing money, and is heavily dependent on DEN, then WN with higher costs and lower ancillary revenues is losing money as well. WN may have a razor thin fare/LF premium in a few markets, but not enough to offset its cost disadvantage.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
dtwpilot225
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:31 am

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:00 pm

Spirit used to do DTW DEN for a while I could see them adding DEN to all of their hubs except ACY
 
rampart
Posts: 1798
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:02 pm

Quoting MAV88 (Reply 23):
His point that DEN does not have a large O&D base that you would expect from an airport with 3 hub operations is true though.

Doesn't DEN have higher per capita, or similar measure, O&D? It's a flying town more than most, and of course has a catchment as big as Colorado and parts of WYO and NEB.
 
shadez
Topic Author
Posts: 106
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RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:06 pm

 
nkops
Posts: 2161
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:11 pm

No DTW.... thats surprising
:evil:
 
point2point
Posts: 2080
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:54 pm

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:14 pm

Quoting MAV88 (Reply 23):
His point that DEN does not have a large O&D base that you would expect from an airport with 3 hub operations is true though.

Domestically, DEN ranks consistently within the top 5 airports in the country (again, as an airport, not city metro area).

Per the airport's last annual report (2010) it stated domestic O&D passengers at about 25M, and international at about 2M for a 27M total, and with total pax - O&D is 53% and connecting is 47%.

Just the numbers, make of them what they are......
 
ROSWELL41
Posts: 755
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2001 3:50 am

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:16 pm

DEN to FLL, ORD, LAS and DFW announced. It's official.
 
point2point
Posts: 2080
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:54 pm

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:20 pm

Quoting ROSWELL41 (Reply 31):
DEN to FLL, ORD, LAS and DFW announced. It's official.

That's it? NK doesn't want to be the fifth carrier between DEN and LAX?
 
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SANFan
Posts: 3743
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:21 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 16):
Quoting SANFan (Reply 12):
I don't think that DEN will be any sizeable operation at all. Maybe a couple of flights to DFW -- since the Texas city does seem to be a focus operation for Spirit -- and perhaps one other city and I say that's it.

It will be five routes - FLL, LAS, ORD, DFW and TPA.

Oh well, I'm wrong again, eh?

Woops, what about TPA?

bb

[Edited 2012-02-16 10:24:17]
 
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enilria
Posts: 6877
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RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:36 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 12):

I don't think that DEN will be any sizeable operation at all. Maybe a couple of flights to DFW

Or not...
This is the craziest thing they have done. Are they trying to kill F9? What is the point?
 
Beechtobus
Posts: 372
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:09 pm

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:39 pm

Sanfan,

I wouldn't say its too sizable, 4 cities but only 6 daily flights so far.

[Edited 2012-02-16 10:49:35]
 
dtwpilot225
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:31 am

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:42 pm

Ok seriously spirit just close the darn dtw base already. Service from Denver to everywhere but dtw.
 
point2point
Posts: 2080
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:54 pm

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:43 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 34):
This is the craziest thing they have done.

Coming from you, it has to be.......  

So maybe the talk of DEN building a Concourse D for NK to hub there wouldn't be so far-fetched then, eh? After all, once these airlines set foot in DEN, they become like - addicted - and just start adding more and more flights......

I guess there's some reason to all of these conspiracy theories about DEN, eh?

 Wow!
 
PlaneAdmirer
Posts: 250
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RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:55 pm

I don't know - sure they will compete with the incumbents on these routes, F9, WN, and UA, but they will also be competing more with AA. Two of the announced cities are AA hubs and one, Fort Lauderdale, is just up the road from another AA hub.

The fares to LAS are so low now that I can't see what another entrant into that market is going to change. Sure they will some 9.00 fares, but how many?

I am leaving out TPA because I am not familiar with how many flights a day, etc.
 
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SANFan
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RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:04 pm

Quoting BeechToBus (Reply 34):
I wouldn't say its too sizable, 4 cities but only 6 daily flights so far

Thank you Beech', 'preciate it. I guess I wasn't TOO wrong... 

In any case, good luck Spirit. In this particular market I think you're going to need it!

bb
 
ATCtower
Posts: 471
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RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:23 pm

This is great news for DEN and Spirit wouldnt do it if they didnt think they could keep it profitable. Will be awesome having the 9 dollar fare club here but that leads me to the question (sorry if it is a little off topic, still about the airline):

How often do 9 dollar fares (and other super cheap) show up on their website? I get a kick out of last minute darts around on my days off and wonder if the 9 dollar club is worth it.
By reading the above post you waive all rights to be offended. If you do not like what you read, forget it.
 
point2point
Posts: 2080
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RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:58 pm

Quoting BeechToBus (Reply 34):
I wouldn't say its too sizable, 4 cities but only 6 daily flights so far.

Out of curiosity, would anyone know what the biggest "splash" that NK made when entering a new market/city?

Here we have 4 cities and 6 flights into a new destination (I know, NK was here once before ages ago, then left, so this has to count as new since there was no service here as they announced this) ..... is this usual for NK upon entering a new destination, or smaller, or bigger?

So I guess to rephrase the above question, would anyone know the biggest entry NK had into a new market - most cities served n/s, most flights?



[Edited 2012-02-16 12:04:45]
 
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enilria
Posts: 6877
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RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:10 pm

Quoting BeechToBus (Reply 34):
I wouldn't say its too sizable, 4 cities but only 6 daily flights so far.

That's big by Spirit standards.

Quoting point2point (Reply 36):
Quoting enilria (Reply 34):
This is the craziest thing they have done.

Coming from you, it has to be.......  

Not sure exactly what you mean, but it makes far more sense for NK to enter high fare markets than markets like DEN that are already trashed. DEN-CHI has UA/AA/WN/F9. DEN-LAS has tons of flights.
 
point2point
Posts: 2080
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:54 pm

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:20 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 41):
Not sure exactly what you mean

Please take it as a compliment my friend..... that's the way I wanted it to be....

Anyway, I'm somehow flabbergasted with this announcement, as I'm sure many here are.......

And my snarkiness is just overwhelming me here with this..... I'm not posting anything nearly all the thoughts that I'm thinking, which is best for everyone, I suppose....

 
 
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mariner
Posts: 18401
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:27 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 42):
Anyway, I'm somehow flabbergasted with this announcement, as I'm sure many here are.......

When Southwest announced DEN I posted a long article (on Yahoo Finance) titled "The Inevitable Happens."

I say the same thing here, which is not to say I think it is wise or stupid - simply inevitable.

I don't think Spirit is trying deliberately to "kill" Frontier - or anyone - although I think Spirit may have some fun at Frontier's expense, the ULCC thing. I think Southwest may be spitting tacks (more downward pressure on DEN fares), and in some ways Spirit takes the pressure off Frontier.

It's just - inevitable.

mariner

[Edited 2012-02-16 12:31:10]
aeternum nauta
 
dtw9
Posts: 898
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:09 am

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:29 pm

Quoting dtwpilot225 (Reply 35):
Ok seriously spirit just close the darn dtw base already. Service from Denver to everywhere but dtw.

With DAL,UAL,F9 and SWA all doing DTW-DEN, I don't think there's much left to pick at. Now if F9 goes away, I'm sure Spirit will jump into the fray
 
avi8
Posts: 901
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:36 am

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:51 pm

Whats the scheduel for the new flights?
avi8

Medschool student
 
timberwolf24
Posts: 455
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2001 8:38 am

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:06 pm

Glad to see ORD in this expansion round. I wonder were Spirit will expand to next?
Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!
 
usflyguy
Posts: 1558
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:29 am

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:07 pm

Quoting avi8 (Reply 45):

They're all scheduled to arrive after midnight and depart before 3 am.    Just kidding but wouldn't be shocked if it were true.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
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enilria
Posts: 6877
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RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:18 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 42):
And my snarkiness is just overwhelming me here with this..... I'm not posting anything nearly all the thoughts that I'm thinking, which is best for everyone, I suppose....

OK, thanks!

Quoting mariner (Reply 43):
I say the same thing here, which is not to say I think it is wise or stupid - simply inevitable.

I agree with point2point. It makes little sense unless they are retaliating against F9 for all the Caribbean routes they sort of added. Why not do this in MSP or SEA or IAH or STL or MCI (lol) or SLC or MEM? DEN seems like the worst place.

Quoting avi8 (Reply 45):
Whats the scheduel for the new flights?

The markets have good schedules except for FLL which is an awful double red-eye.
 
EricR
Posts: 1223
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:15 pm

RE: Spirit To DEN

Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:20 pm

Quoting gustywinds (Reply 22):
I think you do need to if you are going to eliminate F9 from the 3 hub DEN. I could just as easily say WN is toast or UA will leave DEN, but I have no facts to back that up. I do know that WN is not raising their fares by $10 in DEN although they are doing that in the rest of their system. Does that say WN is not doing well in DEN?

Keep in mind that I did not say F9 would be the one to leave DEN as a hub, I just said their performance is an indication, among other indications, that 3 hub carriers in DEN is not sustainable. You really do not need the actual figures to draw the conclusion that this market cannot sustain 3 hub carriers.

History shows us that DEN cannot support three hub carriers as alluded to in an earlier post when CO, UA, and the old Frontier attempted to hub at DEN. In addition, the decline fares resulting from UA, WN, & F9's battle for market share has negatively impacted all 3 carriers and severely jeopardizes any long term chance of sustaining 3 hub carriers.

Quoting MAV88 (Reply 23):
His point that DEN does not have a large O&D base that you would expect from an airport with 3 hub operations is true though.
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 24):
Quoting gustywinds (Reply 22):
Does that say WN is not doing well in DEN?

I think it's fairly reasonable to say that if F9 is losing money, and is heavily dependent on DEN, then WN with higher costs and lower ancillary revenues is losing money as well. WN may have a razor thin fare/LF premium in a few markets, but not enough to offset its cost disadvantage.
Quoting point2point (Reply 29):
Domestically, DEN ranks consistently within the top 5 airports in the country (again, as an airport, not city metro area).

Per the airport's last annual report (2010) it stated domestic O&D passengers at about 25M, and international at about 2M for a 27M total, and with total pax - O&D is 53% and connecting is 47%.

Just the numbers, make of them what they are......

While DEN does have a larger O&D relative to its metro pop size, this still does not mean DEN can support 3 hub carriers. Every hub airport is going to reach a saturation point and DEN has yet to show that it can support 3 hub carriers on a long term basis. In fact, with the exception of JFK, and arguably LAX, no airport has shown the ability to do so.

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