kiffy
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Will 787 Or A380 Ever Be To PHL?

Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:12 am

Hey all,
I was wondering if anyone knew if the 787 or A380 will ever visit PHL?
 
deltairlines
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RE: Will 787 Or A380 Ever Be To PHL?

Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:32 am

Doubtful on the A380 - given that BA and LH don't bother putting 747s into the market (going with a 777 and 763 for BA and an A343 for LH) and US not getting any, it's a pretty safe bet that the only ones that would come in are diversions. With UPS canceling its A380 order, that eliminated the last real possibility.

The 787 is a possibility though - it would make sense for a Narita route, possibly flown by ANA to tap into the US hub. Likewise, it's possible BA might drop it into PHL as well.
 
777222LR
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RE: Will 787 Or A380 Ever Be To PHL?

Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:25 am

A380 won't happen in the foreseeable future. PHL is really too close to all-important markets like IAD and JFK/New York. If anything, I'd expect to see a 787 from NRT via NH, as DeltAirlines stated.
 
zrs70
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RE: Will 787 Or A380 Ever Be To PHL?

Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:54 am

Ever is a long time. I would say "yes" to both.
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LGWflyer
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RE: Will 787 Or A380 Ever Be To PHL?

Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:22 pm

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 3):
Ever is a long time. I would say "yes" to both.

Yes I agree! Say in 5 years time, imagine how many airlines will be using both aircraft? PHL could have new airlines come to the airport using the 787 and A380. Never give up, im sure you'll get one or even both one day.
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kiffy
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RE: Will 787 Or A380 Ever Be To PHL?

Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:33 pm

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 3):
Ever is a long time. I would say "yes" to both.
Quoting LGWflyer (Reply 4):
Never give up, im sure you'll get one or even both one day.

True and inspiring haha. I guess I should have said in the near future.

Does anyone know if or when the 787 or A380 would visit Philly for just a test flight? (to my knowledge neither has yet) I feel like Philly has be left out.   

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 1):
The 787 is a possibility though - it would make sense for a Narita route, possibly flown by ANA to tap into the US hub.

What do you think the chances of this actually happening are? It would be really cool to see ANA come to PHL!
 
mah584jr
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RE: Will 787 Or A380 Ever Be To PHL?

Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:56 pm

Quoting kiffy (Reply 5):
Does anyone know if or when the 787 or A380 would visit Philly for just a test flight? (to my knowledge neither has yet) I feel like Philly has be left out.

PHL does not have any A380 compatible gates. I have not read of any explicit plans to add any either. The 787 seems like a much more likely possibility, but if it were to happen, it would be several years from now in my opinion.
 
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RE: Will 787 Or A380 Ever Be To PHL?

Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:03 pm

Plus, out of the current and upcoming A380 operators, I can't see any of them using it into PHL. With Emirates expansion into the US, I could see them starting PHL in the next 5-10 years, but the 777 would be the most likely equipment used.


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PHLBOS
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RE: Will 787 Or A380 Ever Be To PHL?

Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:15 pm

Quoting mah584jr (Reply 6):
PHL does not have any A380 compatible gates. I have not read of any explicit plans to add any either. The 787 seems like a much more likely possibility, but if it were to happen, it would be several years from now in my opinion.

Not to mention the spacings between the runways and taxiways are too close together for regular Group VI aircraft (which is what the A380 is) operations. IIRC, only 5 airports in the U.S. have either upgraded their airfields or obtained waivers of sorts to handle regular-scheduled A380 flights (or other FAA Group VI aircraft); and PHL was NOT one of them.

Note: the proposed PHL-CEP airfield updates do NOT include respacing of the parallel taxiways to Group VI standards.

That said, PHL's more likely to see a 787 than it would for the A380; although it probably won't as long as US maintains a hub.
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RE: Will 787 Or A380 Ever Be To PHL?

Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:18 pm

787 might be used by a carrier already flying there as a replacement for the current equipment. I don't think you'll need to hold out hope for a new entrant like NH or JL. Could see BA doing so for example.
 
Cipango
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RE: Will 787 Or A380 Ever Be To PHL?

Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:16 pm

One day JL might surprise us and start flights to NRT or something with a 787, but i think a BA flight is a lot more likely.
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Kleiner
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RE: Will 787 Or A380 Ever Be To PHL?

Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:50 pm

If VS flies to Philly they could put 787 on the route, especially when they can connect with VX.
 
wagz
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RE: Will 787 Or A380 Ever Be To PHL?

Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:57 am

Given that BA currently operates the 763 on the later of the two dailies (although for the past month or so, and going until April it has been a 772 most of the time), and that BA's order of the 787 is intended to ultimately replace the 763s, I think there is a good chance of seeing it. Now given the timelines involved, who knows what BA's PHL flying will be like by then (could be more or less capacity in the market). As far as ANA goes, it was mentioned in another thread that (I think) PHL is currently the largest metro area by population that does not have any Asia service.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 8):
Not to mention the spacings between the runways and taxiways are too close together for regular Group VI aircraft (which is what the A380 is) operations. IIRC, only 5 airports in the U.S. have either upgraded their airfields or obtained waivers of sorts to handle regular-scheduled A380 flights (or other FAA Group VI aircraft); and PHL was NOT one of them.

Oddly enough when we we're briefed last year about operations involving possible A380 diversions to PHL, there was no mention of restrictions on parallel taxiways to either of 27L or 27R. Supposedly we got a waiver allowing A380 movement unhindered since it would be a rare occurrence. I don't remember the specifics, but supposedly while the A380 can use 9L/27R it is preferred that it use 9R/27L. I think the city was also supposed to provide an escort vehicle as well. Of course I'm fairly certain your mention of "regular-scheduled" A380 flights would change the FAA's mind regarding our waiver.

Quoting Kleiner (Reply 11):
If VS flies to Philly they could put 787 on the route, especially when they can connect with VX.

The odds of that happening are slim to none. Between BA and US there are already 3 daily trips to LHR, not to mention US' now sizable European network that has caused BA to reduce capacity (in the early 2000s BA ran 1x 744 and 1x 772 with 2x 744s during heavy holiday periods - they now operate 1x 772 and 1x 763 usually with only 1x daily operating on very slow days of the year such as Christmas). I'm also fairly certain that other than sharing a name, VS and VX have absolutely no connections or code shares due to US foreign ownership laws. And in any event, VS already serves US gateways that VX operates to/from even if they did. Also consider that VX's entire network is XYZ-LAX/SFO. VS already serves both LAX and SFO from LHR anyway.
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DTWLAX
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RE: Will 787 Or A380 Ever Be To PHL?

Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:03 am

Quoting Kleiner (Reply 11):
If VS flies to Philly they could put 787 on the route, especially when they can connect with VX.

Connect with VX to where?
 
kiffy
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RE: Will 787 Or A380 Ever Be To PHL?

Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:04 am

Quoting wagz (Reply 12):
supposedly while the A380 can use 9L/27R it is preferred that it use 9R/27L

I always thought A380s preferred the closest runway to their terminal (Termianl one and runway 31L at JFK). For Philly it would be Terminal A and 9L/27R.

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 13):
Connect with VX to where?

VX is going to start service from LAX and SFO this April/May.
With the following schedule:

Los Angeles – Philadelphia
VX124 LAX1055 – 1900PHL 320 D 05APR12-
VX126 LAX1540 – 2355PHL 320 D 01MAY12-
VX130 LAX2135 – 0545+1PHL 320 D 04APR12-

VX121 PHL0700 – 0955LAX 320 D 05APR12-
VX125 PHL1125 – 1425LAX 320 D 02MAY12-
VX127 PHL2005 – 2255LAX 320 D 05APR12-

San Francisco – Philadelphia
VX136 SFO0830 – 1655PHL 320 D 10APR12-
VX144 SFO2300 – 0725+1PHL 320 D 30APR12-

VX137 PHL0835 – 1155SFO 320 D 01MAY12-
VX141 PHL1750 – 2110SFO 320 D 10APR12-

(Source)
 
phlwok
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RE: Will 787 Or A380 Ever Be To PHL?

Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:34 am

Quoting kiffy (Reply 14):
I always thought A380s preferred the closest runway to their terminal (Termianl one and runway 31L at JFK). For Philly it would be Terminal A and 9L/27R.

9R/27L is 1,006 feet longer and 50 feet wider than 9L/27R. This is why they bring emergencies onto 9R/27L when possible. I would assume they'd want diverted A380s on there as well - just more pavement to work with. At the moment, there aren't gates at Terminal A that can handle it - the only advantage is that is where customs and immigration are.

Quoting kiffy (Reply 14):
VX is going to start service from LAX and SFO this April/May.

Why wouldn't passengers just fly VS nonstop from LAX/SFO-LHR? A PHL stop is unnecessary and time wasting. VX will have plenty of challenges in PHL-LAX/SFO, but I highly doubt flying connections for someone else will be part of the solution.

As to the 787, the sheer size of the order book suggests that PHL will get some service someday from someone. How's that for a guess?  
 
DTWLAX
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RE: Will 787 Or A380 Ever Be To PHL?

Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:48 am

Quoting kiffy (Reply 14):
VX is going to start service from LAX and SFO this April/May.

Who in their right mind will connect at PHL for LAX and SFO when VS flies daily nonstop to those destinations?
 
kiffy
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RE: Will 787 Or A380 Ever Be To PHL?

Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:04 am

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 16):
Who in their right mind will connect at PHL for LAX and SFO when VS flies daily nonstop to those destinations?

I would, I love different airplanes, different airlines and different airports. It would also be nice to walk around between long flights.
 
phlwok
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RE: Will 787 Or A380 Ever Be To PHL?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:43 am

Quoting kiffy (Reply 17):
I would, I love different airplanes, different airlines and different airports. It would also be nice to walk around between long flights.

That's fine, and there are ways to build itineraries that allow that, but there aren't enough people in this category to make a business case to do this. Most will take the 10.5 hour or so nonstop flight from California to LHR. Routing through anywhere in the US East Coast is a significant detour, both in distance and the additional time on the ground, plus additional costs in fuel burned and landing fees/airport taxes with an inefficient routing. There are sound reasons to walk around routinely, but this can be done on board - especially on a widebody.
 
777STL
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RE: Will 787 Or A380 Ever Be To PHL?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:42 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 8):
Not to mention the spacings between the runways and taxiways are too close together for regular Group VI aircraft (which is what the A380 is) operations. IIRC, only 5 airports in the U.S. have either upgraded their airfields or obtained waivers of sorts to handle regular-scheduled A380 flights (or other FAA Group VI aircraft); and PHL was NOT one of them.

Which leads to the logical conclusion that even PHL doesn't expect PHL to ever handle scheduled 380 service. I could definitely see 787 service at some point, however.
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